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Carron

Oct 10, 2009, 8:08 AM

Post #26 of 42 (7022 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Going to a Mexican University?

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I taught at both the University of
Chiapas and Tec de Monterrey in Tuxtla Gutierrez. I was called in and chastised at both for expecting students to conform to academic standards like those in the US for college freshmen.

Also taught at an expensive private language school and was also slammed because I did not let my wealthy spoiled students slide for impossible, disrespectable misbehavior in the classroom. They made me feel lower than a teenage muchaca (servant). I was just another paid household employee.

My take on this was that the process is more important than the results. In other words, I was supposed to babysit rather than teach and children of wealthy families simply wanted to brag that their children were learning English at an exclusive school.

And then there were the gifts and bribes for grades, which shocked me, but seemed the norm. I quit ASAP.

gpkgto

Oct 10, 2009, 8:56 AM

Post #27 of 42 (7009 views)

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Re: [Carron] Going to a Mexican University?

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A friend that taught at Tec de M. in Irapuato quit right in the middle of class for the same reason--he just walked out and never went back. Tec never tried to enforce the contract he had signed. The rich kids literally said they paid his salary ( a whopping 120 pesos an hour!)--so they could behave any way they wanted. The school and the parents seemed to support this attitude. I don't see how Mexico's future will be in good hands if this is the way kids are growing up.

anothermexcan

Oct 10, 2009, 10:58 AM

Post #28 of 42 (6987 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Going to a Mexican University?

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My neice is in Guada at Tec de M on an exchange from Canada. Her home Univ had to approve the classes that she was taking in order for them to recognize them and for her to receive credit. She is a final year law student and has found that although the classes are good, more emphasis seems to be placed on attendance (nor a bad thing haha) than on the 'meat' of the classes. But this has been a wonderful experience for her and she has found that the profs are more than willing to assist her. Some of her classes are in English and others are in Spanish. Overall, she feels that the classes are not the same depth that she has had in Canada. THat is not to say that it is undervalued or that her Canadian univ is better...she is comparing only the classes that she is enrolled in.
If there is consideration for using an AMerican univ together with Mexican to complete the degree...you might want to make sure that the classes will be recognized as transfers by the US univ.

gpkgto

Oct 10, 2009, 1:32 PM

Post #29 of 42 (6958 views)

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Re: [anothermexcan] Going to a Mexican University?

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As a US lawyer who works for a Mexican notario, I cannot imagine how the law school educations could be compared. This is not a criticism of either--but the Mexican system is fundamentally different for the US system, so the education is also different. I do think it must be a wonderful experience for her to get an inside view of another legal system. Also, in the last year of law school in the US, attendence is all any professor gets from a student--"the first year they scare you to death, the second year they work you to death, and the third year they bore you to death".

anothermexcan

Oct 10, 2009, 3:48 PM

Post #30 of 42 (6938 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Going to a Mexican University?

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You are absolutely correct, they can not be compared at all. Her reference was made only to the classes that she is in, which are not final year 'must have' classes. Some of them are options. Reference to the attendance was not intended to be any kind of derrogatory remark at all. It was simply a statement of the policies at the Univ. She wouldnt trade this experience but has made the remark that the classes are not near so in depth as those she has had to take at her hime Univ and quite frankly has been thrilled about it! Her average is 98 at this point. She is looking at coming back to Guada to do her Masters. This wasnt in any way shape or form intended to be a US or Canada vs Mexico post....just that if someone is looking at attending both to complete a degree, that their 'other' Univ needs to be involved in order to ensure that they will recognize the courses for credit. There were several law courses offered at TEc that her home Univ would not give credit for, including International Law. And it would be an experience I would encourage every student to have!

mazbook1

Oct 10, 2009, 6:31 PM

Post #31 of 42 (6913 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Going to a Mexican University?

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SEP annually publishes these numbers, but only up through the prepa level. I do know that many universities, both public and private, do ofter prepa so maybe that's what the article was saying. I would find it very hard to believe that there were six hundred private TRUE universities in all of México that didn't come up to snuff. That would practically wipe out the private universities in the whole country.

TlxcalaClaudia

Oct 10, 2009, 10:34 PM

Post #32 of 42 (6864 views)

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Re: [Carron] Going to a Mexican University?

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Carron wrote: I was called in and chastised at both for expecting students to conform to academic standards like those in the US for college freshmen.

My response: Been there! It hurt but made me strong for what I have to deal with in universities SOB.

Carron wrote: And then there were the gifts and bribes for grades, which shocked me

My response: Been there too. I am now known as being "very correct"...my nickname in fact. I'm not sure that it is a compliment...feels like an insult sometimes.

Yet, I meet great Mexican professors often...so some are helping the system.

(This post was edited by TlxcalaClaudia on Oct 10, 2009, 10:44 PM)

waltw

Oct 11, 2009, 2:27 PM

Post #33 of 42 (6822 views)

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Re: [TlxcalaClaudia] Going to a Mexican University?

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This is an interesting article in Spanish talking about the different rankings published for Mexican Universities. They mention El Universal, Reforma, and Reader's Digest, and talk about the methodology used with each one. One interesting point is that the rankings by El Universal and Reforma are not really national but rather regional rankings.

http://examendeadmision.blogspot.com/...dades-de-mexico.html

La Isla

Oct 11, 2009, 2:44 PM

Post #34 of 42 (6812 views)

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Re: [anothermexcan] Going to a Mexican University?

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When anotothermexcan wrote that his or her niece was a law student taking a year´s worth of courses at a Mexican university, I was a bit confused. In the US you go to law school after getting some sort of undergraduate degree, but in Mexico you go into law school right after finishing prepa. The two courses of study are on very different levels, one undergraduate, one graduate, so there could be no way to transfer credits between the two types of programs. Then I read the post more carefully and saw that the niece was a Canadian law student not an American one. Just out of curiosity, do Canadians enter law schoool after finishing high school as they do in Mexico?

anothermexcan

Oct 11, 2009, 3:16 PM

Post #35 of 42 (6803 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Going to a Mexican University?

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The Canadian process seems to be much the same as the US. My neice has completed 4 years of Univ for a degree in Sociology, needed 3 additional years of law classes and then will require approximately one year of articling before she can write her exams to be admitted to the Bar. Most of the students in her classes in Guada are in her same age range of mid twenties but I am not sure what they have already taken. She is only there for one semester but is regretting that she hadn't arranged this earlier in her studies in order to have a complete year in Guada. An interesting detail...she is the first Canadian law student to do the exchange so it was a bit of a gong show for determining what classes she was and wasnt approved to take. By approved, I mean, by her home Univ. They wouldnt approve an International LAw class that she felt would be very beneficial to her..interesting! On another note she was very surprised by the number of International Students that are at Tec de M in Guada....over 200...many of them European.

gpkgto

Oct 11, 2009, 5:00 PM

Post #36 of 42 (6784 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Going to a Mexican University?

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The US law school process is basically determined by the ABA as a way to limit the number of people becoming lawyers. My undergarduate studies had nothing to do with my law school studies. The AMA does the same thing, and in Mexico medical school is also started right out of high school/prepa.

richmx2

Oct 11, 2009, 5:45 PM

Post #37 of 42 (6770 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Going to a Mexican University?

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Other requirements aside, a Mexican law degree wouldn't be relevant in U.S. or Canada, where the law is based on a completely different theory than in Mexico or other "Roman Law" countries anyway. Nor is U.S. legal education much use in Mexico (or France, or Germany, or Russia, or Argentina, or....)

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

gpkgto

Oct 12, 2009, 6:53 AM

Post #38 of 42 (6738 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Going to a Mexican University?

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Obviously, neither country's law degree allows the practice of law in the other country, but I work in Mexico with a notario who has a large number of US and Canadian clients doing business in Mexico or doing business with Mexican companies--and US law becomes very relevant for this interactivity.

Zarcero

Oct 12, 2009, 6:58 AM

Post #39 of 42 (6734 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Going to a Mexican University?

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Hi y'all,

New guy here. I am a dual-national US/Costa Rica (CR). Several of my relatives are also dual-nationals US/CR and have been educated in one or both places. We also have family that has been educated in Mexico that lives in CR.

The real question here is where one wishes to work and live for the majority of one's life and what type of major one wishes to study in the university. This is where the impact will be felt depending on where one wants to study and live.

Example 1. My sister in CR is an MD. Currently she can only practice medicine there. For her to practice in the US there are a series of examinations and licensing procedures she would have to go through. These are considered onerous, and are not the same exams she would have had to take had she been educated here. OTOH, had she been educated here, she would be able to practice in CR freely.

Example 2. My cousin is a lawyer in CR. In order to practice law in CR he has to have a law degree from CR. He also has a follow-on law degree (LLM) from Cornell. He can practice law in NY if he wishes to being that he is a bar member there. If he had taken his first law degree outside of CR he would not be allowed to practice law in CR.

Example 3. Several relatives in CR have studied medicine in Mexico. They are free to practice in CR. In fact it used to be said that the better doctors in CR were trained in Mexico.

Example 4. Me. I am an engineer, and P.E. licensed in several US states and Canadian provinces. To get these licenses I had to be a graduate of an "approved" university. Most of the universities in Mexico are not approved for US or Canadian licensing, though some progress is being made in this regard with comity and reciprocity agreements. If I would have taken my degree in Mexico or CR, I would not be able to get a P.E. license here in the US or Canada. However, being educated here in the US, I am free to work in Mexico, as Pemex is one of my clients.

Right now it looks like the advantage lays with the US in terms of mobility between the two countries if one is a dual-national between the US and almost any other country in Latin America.

Just some other notes of what I have read in other posts on this thread.

1. Plagiarism and cheating are as rampant in the US as anywhere else I have seen. My wife has seen this first-hand as an adjunct professor, and I saw it in graduate school here in Houston.
2. True, the university experience overall in Latin America focuses more on the profession/major than on the Renaissance Man approach that US universities used to advocate. Unfortunately these requirements are slipping away from universities in the US as well. No more reading of "Great Books" like in the old days. Shame.
3. My own observations for Mexico, and Latin America in general, is that your "connections" in life and business actually tend to be more determined by where you went to high school, rather than where you went to college, as your last set of friends are made there before everyone scatters.

Saludos,

Mike

babycakes

Oct 15, 2009, 11:09 AM

Post #40 of 42 (6634 views)

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Re: [TlxcalaClaudia] Going to a Mexican University?

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I second what is being said about the mentality of the students around her. My friend did an exchange here Mexico City at a private uni called La Salle. It has a really good reputation! But, she invited me to sit in class with her. It was awful! The students were talking on their cell phones IN class, flirting with each other, throwing paper wads- one hit me in the back of the head-- and a student came up to me with the wad and said I should take my vengence. And what did the prof do? He kept "teaching" talking and writing things on the chalkboard.
Another thing that happened was that at the end of the semester my friend got an "A" in a class she didnt take! When she spoke with the person in charge the person was just like, "you got an A". And gave her a look like, why would you want to fix that error?

homeless_vagabond

Oct 15, 2009, 6:22 PM

Post #41 of 42 (6596 views)

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Re: [waltw] Going to a Mexican University?

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I would love to hear about anyone's experiences at ITESM-Guadalajara.-r

gpkgto

Oct 16, 2009, 5:47 AM

Post #42 of 42 (6555 views)

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Re: [homeless_vagabond] Going to a Mexican University?

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An acquaintance of mine teaches there. Send me a private message and I'll tell you how to contact him.

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