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Rolly


Sep 19, 2009, 6:04 AM

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Sex education

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I was shocked to read in the paper this morning that half of all babies born in Lerdo are to mothers between 14 and 16 years of age. The schools and the health department are starting a program to educate the kids. It's not exactly sex education, but it's a first step.

"The topics to be discussed at the talks are: Methods of family planning, violence, obesity, addiction and teenage pregnancy."

Rolly Pirate



gpkgto

Sep 19, 2009, 6:12 AM

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Re: [Rolly] Sex education

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In Guanajuato the government just issued new textbooks for secondary sex ed that eliminates all real info to promote abstinence and denigrate unwed mothers. PAN is out of step! Also, I have read that some girls from poor areas intentionally get pregnant because as "mothers" they gain an elevated status in their communities.


Hound Dog

Sep 20, 2009, 9:10 AM

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Re: [Rolly] Sex education

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I was shocked to read in the paper this morning that half of all babies born in Lerdo are to mothers between 14 and 16 years of age. The schools and the health department are starting a program to educate the kids. It's not exactly sex education, but it's a first step.

"The topics to be discussed at the talks are: Methods of family planning, violence, obesity, addiction and teenage pregnancy."

Rolly


You think that´s shocking, what the paper did not reveal is that the other half are born to mothers between 11 and 13.

Brigitte and I were driving to Chiapas and stopped off in Mexico State in the high mountain town of Atlacomulco for lunch in the main plaza and were sitting there in this reputable restaurant enjoying lunch among a large crowd of locals including a number of young children idly watching local television when Brigiite exclaimed to me that this mid-day public service channel was showing a huge plastic penis upon which an attractive young woman was placing a condom not only showing her audience the proper way to place a condom on a penis but the way to do that in such a manner that the woman placing the condom upon the penis could properly squeeze the said sex organ in such a manner that her actions would generate interest in her partner and, presumably, aid in increasing sexual pleasure. My back was to the T.V. and I had not observed this program. As it turned out, no one in the restaurant except us noted this sex education program which is apparently quite common here and, if I must say so, seems like a good idea after all.


Papirex


Sep 20, 2009, 10:06 AM

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Re: [Hound Dog] Sex education

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We see short programs like that here in Cuernavaca often. They are very short, almost like a commercial. A few decades ago they would have been shocking, but in todays world they are a good thing I think.


Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Hound Dog

Sep 20, 2009, 10:19 AM

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Re: [Papirex] Sex education

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This program was not short and emphasized how to enjoy sex safe, the program was well made and it is a good way to educate the population but we were a little surprised to see this huge penis appear on the tv in the middle of lunch. We just did not expect it. No big deal we had a good laugh about it.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Sep 20, 2009, 12:38 PM)


richmx2


Sep 20, 2009, 11:03 AM

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Re: [Rolly] Sex education

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I'm surprised, given that Mexico's family planning and sex education has been considered a model to emulate. Still, there are problems, and, as in the United States, you have a reactionary religious conservative movement that has gained political power in some places. I just ran across an article from Guanajuato on changes in that state's health and biology curriculum that include abstinence education and -- rather ridiculously -- removing any illustrations -- or mention -- of the human reproductive system. Apparently, in Guanajuato, there's some sort of "states' rights" movement.

Birth control is an enumerated right in the Mexican constitution, and sex education is required in the curriculum. I was rather surprised (and, being a gringo, a bit embarrassed) when a single-mom friend of mine had me take her 11 year old kid to Farmacias Similares to buy condoms for his 7th grade "show and tell" project... at a private school run by nuns!. OK, they were FRENCH nuns, and this was the Federal District, but even so...


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com


Hound Dog

Sep 20, 2009, 2:33 PM

Post #7 of 20 (9593 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Sex education

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The sex education is good but one of the big problem here is that the purpose in life of many young girls is to have a boyfriend and a baby. The boys want babies because it proves they are men and the girls will do anything to have a boyfriend and if a baby is what will help her keep the boyfriend it is what they will get.

My cleaning lady got a baby very young and married the boyfriend 4 years later. She told me that having a baby that young was an expensive mistake, I told her to talk to her 3 younger sisters so that they did not make the same mistake. She did and all 3 sisters got pregnant at a young age as well and had children. It is almost like a rite of passage to adulthood for the boys and the girls. They are proud to have babies. Sex education is not enough. There is no shame anymore about having a child out of wedlock so children are having children in great numbers. The tabu was there for a good reason.

Breaking the cycle is very difficult the kids listen to parents, school, friends etc but when the "right boy" comes along all the good intentions fly away. In many circumstances it seems that the definition of the right boy is a boy who wants to have a baby and eventually marry. It is sad but that is reality down here.

The public sex education is good but usually helps women who already have children and do not want any anymore for a while.
I am also hearing from many of the younger women who have children that they want 3 or 4 children but do not have as man as their mother did. After 3 or 4 they get their tubes tied as the husbands do not want to hear about changing his sexual habits and for sure do not want any vasectomies!
Brigitte


mazbook1


Sep 20, 2009, 7:42 PM

Post #8 of 20 (9544 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Sex education

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Well, what gpk¡sner said:


Quote
I have read that some girls from poor areas intentionally get pregnant because as "mothers" they gain an elevated status in their communities.

is close to the truth. That "elevated status" is that now they become "women" rather than "girls". Especially in the lower income areas, of which México has many, the more official way of becoming a woman, the quinceañera, is not affordable, so getting pregnant, since it's free (at the beginning) is the only acceptable substitute.

My wife violently disagrees with me on this, but I think the reason is that in her family, even though working class with 8 daughters, there was a quinceañera for each and every one! I've known many lower class families, maybe more than she has, and I will stick by my guns that it is a cultural problem rather than a sex education problem. It is NOT the "boyfriend and baby" syndrome that's common in the lower (less educated) classes NOB.


Manuel Dexterity

Sep 21, 2009, 9:55 AM

Post #9 of 20 (9474 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Sex education

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Well, what gpk¡sner said:


Quote
I have read that some girls from poor areas intentionally get pregnant because as "mothers" they gain an elevated status in their communities.

is close to the truth. That "elevated status" is that now they become "women" rather than "girls". Especially in the lower income areas, of which México has many, the more official way of becoming a woman, the quinceañera, is not affordable, so getting pregnant, since it's free (at the beginning) is the only acceptable substitute.

My wife violently disagrees with me on this, but I think the reason is that in her family, even though working class with 8 daughters, there was a quinceañera for each and every one! I've known many lower class families, maybe more than she has, and I will stick by my guns that it is a cultural problem rather than a sex education problem. It is NOT the "boyfriend and baby" syndrome that's common in the lower (less educated) classes NOB.


You should listen to your wife.


gpkgto

Sep 21, 2009, 11:33 AM

Post #10 of 20 (9455 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Sex education

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I should have mentioned that I read this in Reforma, a prominent Mexican newspaper--this was a Mexican interpretation of the situation based on interviews and research.


Rolly


Sep 21, 2009, 11:40 AM

Post #11 of 20 (9459 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Sex education

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Speaking of Guanajuato, there is an interesting, related article in The Mex Files. http://mexfiles.net/...tter-with-guanajuato

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Sep 21, 2009, 11:43 AM)


gpkgto

Sep 21, 2009, 12:12 PM

Post #12 of 20 (9444 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Sex education

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This is what I was mentioning above in this thread. In Guanajuato the PAN has been taken over by an extreme right-wing group called the YUNQUE. There is an old guy (i.e older even than ME!) who is the head of this group and all PAN officials in the state are mere puppets. This group is very tied to the Catholic church and it's anti-sex education beliefs. The official corruption here makes the old PRI days look like PRI was a bunch of amateurs!


Manuel Dexterity

Sep 21, 2009, 12:31 PM

Post #13 of 20 (9439 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Sex education

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This is what I was mentioning above in this thread. In Guanajuato the PAN has been taken over by an extreme right-wing group called the YUNQUE. There is an old guy (i.e older even than ME!) who is the head of this group and all PAN officials in the state are mere puppets. This group is very tied to the Catholic church and it's anti-sex education beliefs. The official corruption here makes the old PRI days look like PRI was a bunch of amateurs!


The connections between PAN and right wing Catholic extremists is not a recent thing. It started way back. And Guanajuato and Puebla have always been their strongholds.


(This post was edited by Tio Copas on Sep 21, 2009, 12:32 PM)


gpkgto

Sep 21, 2009, 2:27 PM

Post #14 of 20 (9416 views)

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Re: [Tio Copas] Sex education

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While PAN has always been fairly right wing and pro-church, the takeover by the YUNQUE in Guanajuato (and in Queretaro) happened during the last few years. There have been dozens of stories about it in the local paper a.m. which is afiliated with Reforma.


Manuel Dexterity

Sep 21, 2009, 3:49 PM

Post #15 of 20 (9392 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Sex education

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While PAN has always been fairly right wing and pro-church, the takeover by the YUNQUE in Guanajuato (and in Queretaro) happened during the last few years. There have been dozens of stories about it in the local paper a.m. which is afiliated with Reforma.


If you can read Spanish then I suggest finding a copy of

El Yunque -- La ultraderecha en el poder by Alvaro Delgado.

This will give you a very good starting point on the beginnings of the movement and a Who's Who. The PAN and the far right are as the saying goes, "como uña y mugre", and have been for a very long time.

Run a web search for "soldados de dios" Mexico and you will find some interesting reading.


richmx2


Sep 21, 2009, 6:51 PM

Post #16 of 20 (9356 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Sex education

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While PAN has always been fairly right wing and pro-church...

Fairly? National Action parties are usually considered an kissing cousin of fascist ones. As with Spanish Falangism, it's not the economic system -- or even the form of government that is of primary concern, but the preservation of "traditional values" (in PAN's case the criollo Catholic ones) that are the core philosophy. Manuel Gomez Morín had the insight to channel Synarchism (a Mexican fascist movement that grew out of the Cristero rebellion) into electoral politics, and to recognize that a Capitalist state offered the best chance for imposing a National Action one. This isn't to say Capitalism is bad, but only that the PRI, being a socialist party -- and the only political force that counted at the time -- wasn't a comfortable fit for the big business types, where National Action was.

That PAN had roots in Fascism doesn't mean I think they're a "bad" party, either. The U.S. Democratic Party considers Andrew Jackson as one of its founders and had ties to the nativists, slave-owners and the KKK over its history. The "Party of Lincoln" changed too... but I won't get into that. I think the only reason we think PAN is "fairly" right-wing is that we're used to a country with only two main parties, both Capitalist where even mild modern capitalist reforms like universal health care are labeled "socialist". But, in Mexico, where there are several parties, and Socialist parties are the norm (PRI, PRD, PT, Convergencia combined are 2/3rds of the voters), the 1/3 that votes otherwise appears more moderate than it is.

Of course, there are "moderates" within PAN, and they're not all nuts... or religious cranks: but just like the more conservative of the two U.S. parties, there is a religious right that assumes a larger role in inter-party affairs than may be healthy. The only difference is that the religious right has always been integral to what otherwise is a decent capitalist party.

All that said, the feds put the kibosh on the Guanajuato textbooks today.


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by richmx2 on Sep 21, 2009, 6:52 PM)


fschmidt

Sep 23, 2009, 9:41 PM

Post #17 of 20 (9222 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Sex education

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Still, there are problems, and, as in the United States, you have a reactionary religious conservative movement that has gained political power in some places.


Where? I would like to live in one of these places.


Manuel Dexterity

Sep 24, 2009, 5:15 AM

Post #18 of 20 (9190 views)

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Re: [fschmidt] Sex education

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Still, there are problems, and, as in the United States, you have a reactionary religious conservative movement that has gained political power in some places.


Where? I would like to live in one of these places.


Salt Lake City


Hound Dog

Sep 24, 2009, 4:46 PM

Post #19 of 20 (9091 views)

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Re: [Tio Copas] Sex education

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Still, there are problems, and, as in the United States, you have a reactionary religious conservative movement that has gained political power in some places.


Where? I would like to live in one of these places.


Salt Lake City

Hey Schmidt:

No need to move to Utah even though it is certainly one of the most beautiful places on Earth, Utah has moved here. Just find a home in the hills around Lakeside if you seek reactionary, conservative pinheads. There used to be Rhodesia but that is long gone.

Dawg


fschmidt

Sep 26, 2009, 6:03 PM

Post #20 of 20 (8982 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Sex education

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Hey Schmidt:

No need to move to Utah even though it is certainly one of the most beautiful places on Earth, Utah has moved here. Just find a home in the hills around Lakeside if you seek reactionary, conservative pinheads. There used to be Rhodesia but that is long gone.

Dawg


Thank you, Mr. Dawg. I am certainly a reactionary, holding such antiquated views as that one should not call people whose views differ from my own a "pinhead". But then tolerance is such an outdated notion. In any case, I was wondering whether you are referring to the locals or the expats as being reactionaries. I have been to lakeside and wasn't terribly impressed with the place, but I was wondering.
 
 
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