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Plume


Aug 27, 2009, 7:26 PM

Post #1 of 22 (8379 views)

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Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hello All,

I am hoping someone on the forum can share their experience/knowledge - we bought land last year (yeah!) and have just reached the point where our architect is submitting the plans to the local office for planning permission. Among the documentation he has requested is our FM3's - which we do not have! Can anyone confirm that an FM3 is needed to build in Mexico?

Thank you.

Cheers,

Plume



Manuel Dexterity

Aug 27, 2009, 8:16 PM

Post #2 of 22 (8360 views)

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Re: [Plume] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Permit requirements vary from state to state and even within the different municipios. But I highly doubt an FM3 is required. I know that it isn't a requirement in Jalisco and Colima. I have secured permits for foreigners using a power of attorney (carta poder simple) while they were in their home country.


chicois8

Aug 28, 2009, 7:14 AM

Post #3 of 22 (8323 views)

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Re: [Tio Copas] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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The way I read Article 27 is you should have had an FM3 or FM2 to purchase the land in the first place, I have bought real estate ( a house in the restricted zone ) with just an FMT. I have had building added to the lot without any questions asked about my visa status in Mexico, I let my builder handle details.
It seems in Mexico rules change depending on area and who you talk to. Following is the Mexican Government website I got this information from. good luck

http://portal.sre.gob.mx/...amp;op=page&Menu

For the purchase of land in Mexico , the following must be met:

- An application must be filed with the Mexican Foreign Affairs Secretariat (Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores, Dirección General de Asuntos Jurídicos, Tlatelolco, D. F.) or any of its offices in the Mexican territory.
The appropriate personnel will provide the official form {S1} and will help the applicant answer any questions on technical matters.
- Prove the applicant's immigration status (FM3 o FM2 ).

- File the application and attach to it a description of surface, measurements, landmarks and adjacencies of the land.
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


Judy in Ags


Aug 28, 2009, 8:13 PM

Post #4 of 22 (8262 views)

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Re: [Plume] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Well, here in Aguascalientes, you can build a house without an FM3, but you cannot get permission to own the land without an FM3! Well, we had been here 5 years and our house was pretty well finished when we finally got our permission to own the land. The reason for the delay: First, we didn't know it was required; we thought we had all our papers in order. Secondly, after we applied for it, it took the lawyer forever to get it done. We'd already paid him and had to hound him over and over to get the document into our hands. It wasn't cheap either--about $800.00. (That's what the licenciado charged.)


Zorba

Aug 29, 2009, 12:27 AM

Post #5 of 22 (8245 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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I was under the impression you can buy outside restricted zones with just an FMT. Federal law should trump state law/beliefs.


(This post was edited by Zorba on Aug 29, 2009, 12:29 AM)


Judy in Ags


Aug 29, 2009, 5:29 AM

Post #6 of 22 (8236 views)

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Re: [Zorba] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Well, the information we had was as above. I wish you well.


Plume


Sep 1, 2009, 9:40 PM

Post #7 of 22 (8152 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Thanks all for the advice! It seems the rules are different depending on where you are and who you talk to. We already own the land - on FMT. We have submitted the planning permission without FM3's - it appears thus far power of attorney is working!

Cheers,

Plume


chicois8

Sep 2, 2009, 9:41 AM

Post #8 of 22 (8112 views)

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Re: [Plume] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hola, All I know is the website I referred to above is official Mexican government website and it states to purchase land you need an FM3/FM2...I bought real estate (a home) in the restricted zone with an FMT...hope this helps
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


Judy in Ags


Sep 2, 2009, 11:46 AM

Post #9 of 22 (8089 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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I don't doubt but what one can purchase land without an FM3 or the required permission to do it. But. . .the way I understand it, it's not legal until one has an FM3 or FM2 and can obtain that permission.


gpkgto

Sep 2, 2009, 1:49 PM

Post #10 of 22 (8067 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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I am sure you are correct--no foreigner can purchase any real estate (in retricted zone or elsewhere) without a permiso/permit from the Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores/Secretary of External Relations.


chicois8

Sep 3, 2009, 8:56 AM

Post #11 of 22 (8006 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Yes, I remember when I bought my house, it took 30 days from start to finish. The notario said it would be less time but it had to go to the Foreign Ministry in D.F. to be signed off....
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


jerezano

Sep 8, 2009, 9:20 AM

Post #12 of 22 (7904 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hello all,

I note that the Visa Requirements for purchase of land that chicois8 refers to is a publication in English from the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco.

As we all know the various consulates make up their own rules in addition to those of the Federal Government.

Jennifer Rose from her intimate knowledge of the Federal Government Rules has pointed out that unless recently changed it is possible to buy land in fee simple outside the restricted areas on an FMT Tourist visa. I personally have never checked the Federal Government regulations, which of course are in Spanish.

However, some 15 years or more ago my local office of Gobierno here in Zacatecas City refused to accept my application to buy land without an FM3. I had an FMT at the time. So it was necessary to go with what the local office told me was their requirement. I got the FM3 and made application.

The application, at that time, was processed by the local office, sent to the main office in the Distrito Federal and the approval was received in just a bit more than 30 days. I remember I was worried about its receipt but my Notary Public assured me that it would be approved, and that although the approval when received imposed a time limit of 30 days (long ago exceeded) to make the purchase that the limit was not applicable since I had long ago signed a contract for purchase and the Notary Public was in process of arranging closing. Everything worked out fine.

By the way, make sure that the local tax office files the papers under the correct name. I found out that they had used my middle name as my surname (usual in Mexican names). However, a letter in Spanish to them produced the correct filing. Since my surname begins with a K and my middle name begins with an L this change was important.

Good luck with your purchase.

jerezano.


Zorba

Sep 8, 2009, 11:14 PM

Post #13 of 22 (7855 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Jerezano, thanks for the clear and concise post. Sometimes we end up talking apples and oranges. What you have said is what I suspected. You can buy direct on an FMT outside restricted zones. I was told this by a lawyer and a notary in Mexico. I would venture to guess you can buy in the restricted zones as well on an FMT, but only via Fidecomiso.

The registration of the purchase with Relaciones Exteriores (Federal government) has nothing to do with your visa. It would seem to me it is a totally separate requirement.

As for local governments not accepting an FMT to purchase land, that I suspect has something to do with them not knowing the rules themselves and/or the tendency for local authorities to treat their area like a fiefdom. I suppose you could try to show them they are wrong, but it would probably be easier to just to get the FM3 considering how stubborn they can be.

Thanks for pointing out that consulates post inaccurate info. I didn't know that, and it confused me when an official website of the Mexican government was saying you needed an FM3.


(This post was edited by Zorba on Sep 9, 2009, 1:17 AM)


chicois8

Sep 9, 2009, 10:18 AM

Post #14 of 22 (7805 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hola jerezano, you wrote

"I note that the Visa Requirements for purchase of land that chicois8 refers to is a publication in English from the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco.

As we all know the various consulates make up their own rules in addition to those of the Federal Government. "

This "publication" is from an offical Mexican Gov. website, and there may be small differences between counsulate rules they can not or do not change the Mexican Constitution about foreigners buying land in Mexico.

Again you wrote " However, some 15 years or more ago my local office of Gobierno here in Zacatecas City refused to accept my application to buy land without an FM3. "

That is exactly what it said on the website from the counsulate, you can not purchase property without and FM3/FM2...

If you read Article 27 of the Mexican Constutiton you would see that foreigners buying real estate in the restricted zone and foreigners buying property are two different paragraphs... and two sets of rules...


Purchase of real estate

Purchase of real estate in Mexico by non-mexicans


Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution bars foreigners from buying real estate in what is called the “restricted zone” (sixty one miles from the international border and thirty one miles from the seacoast). Outside this area, aliens can purchase real estate property but must agree before the Mexican Foreign Affairs Secretariat to be treated, for all intents and purposes, as Mexican nationals and abstain from invoking the protection of their country of origin with respect to that property. If the covenant is breached, all rights to such property will revert to Mexico .

For the purchase of land in Mexico , the following must be met:
- An application must be filed with the Mexican Foreign Affairs Secretariat (Secretarнa de Relaciones Exteriores, Direcciуn General de Asuntos Jurнdicos, Tlatelolco, D. F.) or any of its offices in the Mexican territory. The appropriate personnel will provide the official form {S1} and will help the applicant answer any questions on technical matters.
- Prove the applicant's immigration status (FM3 o FM2 ).
- File the application and attach to it a description of surface, measurements, landmarks and adjacencies of the land.
- Pay the corresponding duties.
I f the buyer is a company, it must prove it is legally incorporated.
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


bournemouth

Sep 9, 2009, 10:36 AM

Post #15 of 22 (7799 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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I think these rules are observed in different ways in different areas of the country. We certainly bought our current home while only holding FMT's and the deed was submitted to the Foreign Affairs Secretariat - and approved - before we got FM3's.


chicois8

Sep 9, 2009, 1:52 PM

Post #16 of 22 (7763 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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In Reply To
I think these rules are observed in different ways in different areas of the country. We certainly bought our current home while only holding FMT's and the deed was submitted to the Foreign Affairs Secretariat - and approved - before we got FM3's.


I can see some different interpretations of some rules in different parts of Mexico, but the Mexican Constitution is the law of the land.I believe some of the misunderstanding in this thread is coming from folks reading only parts of the Article 27, I like you bought a home with only an FMT, but buying a home is different than buying property/bare land in Mexico where an FM3/FM2 are needed, and clearly stated in Article 27...
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


jerezano

Sep 9, 2009, 2:15 PM

Post #17 of 22 (7758 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hello all:

In relation to my post that the URL chicois 8 gave us for the requirements to buy land in México are from an official Mexican Government website, he may be just a bit confused. If you will look closely at that web site you will see it is from a Mexican Consulate here in the United States, not from the Mexican Federal Government.

I said that we are all aware that Mexican Consulates modify the Federal Rules and regulations as they see fit. You should be well aware of that fact from the many posts here on Mexconnect which call attention to just that fact. There are posts here which state that some Mexican consulates refuse to issue FM3's to people younger than retirement age. I can't remember which was reported but I think it was New York or some other NE state. There are other consulates which require documents from your local county authorities that you do not have a police record, others require statements from a doctor that you do not have communicable diseases of one type or another, etc., etc.

Yes, Federal regulations based on the constitution do make a difference in the purchase of land between restricted zones and non-restricted zones. That is not germane to this discussion. A foreigner, no matter what his immigration status cannot purchase land in the restricted zones. (Once naturalized it is a different matter). A trust document must be used instead. The trustee (the fiduciary agent) is the owner of the land and the purchaser of the trust (you) is allowed to treat the land as his "fee simple" property but for a limited number of years, which is renewable. This is nothing more than a plain and ordinary land rent contract from a landlord. In this case the renter must meet the requirements established by the fiduciary agent who in turn is required to meet local and federal requirements. That doesn't mean that the fiduciary agent cannot establish requirements of his own over and above or less than the others. It also means that the while the fiduciary agent must meet those Federal and local requirements, you, yourself as a renter need not. Your requirements are those specified by the fiduciary agent. If he is required to demand an FM2 or an FM3 he will do so. If not required he is at liberty to specify what he wants.

My own reaction here is simple. Do what your local office of gobierno requires. If they will permit an FMT fine. If they require an FM2, or FM3 or some other document, no matter what it is, (ex) your birth certificate in addition to your passport, a Mexican driver's license, or even a bank account balance give it to them or they will not process your application. It is that simple. Just ask, but don't ask here on the internet. Ask your Notary Public or if you speak Spanish go to the government office and ask there.

Let's not get embroiled in arguments about what is or is not required when the process so so simple.

jerezano


Rolly


Sep 9, 2009, 3:13 PM

Post #18 of 22 (7750 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Those who are still unsure/confused may read the Mexican Constitution in English here. Scroll down to Section 27 where you will not find one word about any visa documents required of non-citizens. That is left to laws and regulations, just as Jerezao said.

Rolly Pirate


esperanza

Sep 9, 2009, 6:36 PM

Post #19 of 22 (7723 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Those who are still unsure/confused may read the Mexican Constitution in English here. Scroll down to Section 27 where you will not find one word about any visa documents required of non-citizens. That is left to laws and regulations, just as Jerezao said.

Thank heavens for Rolly, the voice of reason here.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









chicois8

Sep 10, 2009, 9:54 AM

Post #20 of 22 (7671 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Hola Rolly,
Did you read the very last line on the Mexican Constitution page you included? Yes that page was 41 years old and since that time many amendments have been added to the constitution. The then president Salinas in 1992 pushed through many changes in Article 27. There have been amendments to Article 27 up to 2002. http://historicaltextarchive.com/...article&artid=93

By the way someone I believe said the site I mentioned earlier http://www.sre.gob.mx/ was just a website for a consulate in San Francisco but it is an official Mexican Government website,in fact it is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and has portals to all embassies and consulates throughout the world. paz
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


jl1

Sep 10, 2009, 9:56 AM

Post #21 of 22 (7670 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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This is not a response to Esperanza, just my own experience. My wife and I bought land through a prestanombre in 2002. The land was regularized and put in a fideicomiso/bank trust about 5 years later. Our house is just now going through the "completion process" required by SS. At no point during this process--which by the way was handled by the office of David Connell--were we asked what type of visa we had. For the record, we only recently got our FM3's. Moral of story: regardless of what the Mexican constitution might say, one's experience in purchasing land or building homes is dictated by whatever local authority one is dealing with.


Rolly


Sep 10, 2009, 10:36 AM

Post #22 of 22 (7662 views)

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Re: [Chicois8] Visa Requirements for Building in Mexico?

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Chicois8, thanks for the update.

The updated Section 27 still does not say a word about visas, and the SF consulate webpage is still wrong.

I am unpersuaded by the argument that if it says X on a government website it must be correct. This just isn't true. Consulates are notorious for giving out incorrect information, both on their websites and in person. I spend a lot of time answering e-mails from people who have been confused by what their consulates have told them.

I will concede that things have improved in the past couple of years, but reliability is still far from 100%. It's a sad state of affairs, but that's the way it is

Rolly Pirate
 
 
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