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jerezano

Aug 28, 2009, 11:27 AM

Post #1 of 24 (14997 views)

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Frijol---Frijoles

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Hello all,

A Mexican friend here in Zacatecas a leading producer of beans (frijol) has pointed out the difference between frijol and frijoles.

That difference according to him is that frijoles always refers to COOKED beans and frijol to the sowing, growing and cropping of the frijol plants and to packages etc of raw beans (frijol) sold in stores.

Is this a nit picking use here in Zacatecas or have any of you run into the same differentation? Now that he has mentioned it, I seem to hear the difference all the time.

Always something new with the Spanish language.

Hasta pronto, jerezano



esperanza

Aug 28, 2009, 11:59 AM

Post #2 of 24 (14989 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Frijol---Frijoles

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Your friend is correct. The usage is the same throughout Mexico.

Uncooked bean: frijol
Cooked beans: frijoles

Hoy compré un kilo de frijol.

Preparé una comida bien rica de guisado de puerco, frijoles, y arroz a la mexicana.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









wendy devlin

Aug 28, 2009, 3:18 PM

Post #3 of 24 (14973 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Frijol---Frijoles

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As a grower of frigol. Just learned something about how to express this in Spanish. Thanks!


mazbook1


Aug 28, 2009, 3:44 PM

Post #4 of 24 (14971 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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Yes, esperanza has it right and the RAE agrees. frijol, singular is used in the Americas (maybe only in North America) for the bean plant, the "fruit" of the bean plant and the seeds. ONLY in México is the plural, frijoles, used solely for cooked beans.

Elsewhere in the Spanish-speaking world the word judía is used in place of frijol.

And for those interested in beans, ALL true beans originated in the Americas INCLUDING Lima beans, so should be called frijol in México. However, the Mediterranian area did have a distant relative that resembles the Lima bean called the fava bean or haba in Spanish. Because of this resemblence, Lima beans in México are called habas (although they are truly just a variety of frijol), and all other beans are called frijol. I THINK that I have encounted green beans (snap beans, string beans) being called judías here in México, but I may be confused on that.


esperanza

Aug 28, 2009, 8:14 PM

Post #5 of 24 (14953 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Frijol---Frijoles

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With all due respect, the judía is not a frijol. A green bean is called judía in Spain. Here in Mexico, the green bean is an ejote.

Some popular types of frijol commonly found in Mexico are:
--peruano
--negro (in the southern part of the República)
--flor de mayo
--flor de junio
--pinto (in the northern part of the República)
--rosa de castilla
--bayo
--alubia chico y grande

--and nearly 70 other regionally grown beans

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









La Isla


Aug 28, 2009, 8:30 PM

Post #6 of 24 (14946 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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From my time in Spain, to be more exact in Cataluña, judías are white kidney beans and are one of the two basic ingredients in the Catalan national dish, judías con butifarra (a kind of sausage).


esperanza

Aug 28, 2009, 8:49 PM

Post #7 of 24 (14943 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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http://www.allwords.com/word-green+bean.html

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









La Isla


Aug 28, 2009, 9:04 PM

Post #8 of 24 (14938 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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Esperanza, I based my post on my eating experiences in Barcelona over a six-month period, not on a dictionary entry.


esperanza

Aug 28, 2009, 10:16 PM

Post #9 of 24 (14933 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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Yes, of course I understand.

Where do you think the dictionary gets this information?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









La Isla


Aug 28, 2009, 10:31 PM

Post #10 of 24 (14929 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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I don't know for sure how dictionary editors and writers research their entries. I guess it's a combination of maintaining a chain of local informants plus doing research from written sources, including other dictionaries! I just sent an email to my personal local informant in Spain to see what her take is on this question. To be continued...


esperanza

Aug 29, 2009, 6:45 AM

Post #11 of 24 (14920 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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That's great! What I'm thinking is that different areas of Spain use different words for things, just the way we do in Mexico. For example, what you know as bugambilia in Mexico City--and what people all over Mexico know, too--is always called camelinas in Morelia. I'm sure there are a lot of regional differences in naming.

Please do let us know what your friend says about judías.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Peter


Aug 29, 2009, 3:34 PM

Post #12 of 24 (14890 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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I'm curious, what is camelinas or bugambilia? Here in Morelia I see both words, though only used as names of locations. I don't find either in any dictionary.

A couple of years ago, or more, I used the only word I knew for greenbean, judia (no accent) and my Mexican friend knew what vegetable I was speaking of. He didn't correct me at the time to correct pronunciation or to tell me they are more commonly called ejotes.

Annoying that most sources for Spanish is geared for that spoken in Spain when Mexico has by far the largest Spanish-speaking population. Latin-American Spanish should be the standard, though there is much regional variation. One word innocuously spoken in Spain could get you arrested in Argentina or a dirty look elsewhere in this hemisphere, yet it is what is most commonly taught to students.

"Senor, sabe usted por donde se coge el autobus?"

"Por atras, cochino."


(This post was edited by Peter on Aug 29, 2009, 3:38 PM)


tashby


Aug 29, 2009, 6:08 PM

Post #13 of 24 (14877 views)

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Re: [Peter] Frijol---Frijoles

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I'm curious, what is camelinas or bugambilia?


It's bougainvillea. Or bouganvillea. Ahhhh, heck. It's the flowery plant (that really isn't a flower) in the attached photo.

See it? Neither do I. For some reason the photo won't attach. Sorry.


(This post was edited by tashby on Aug 29, 2009, 6:14 PM)


La Isla


Aug 29, 2009, 9:07 PM

Post #14 of 24 (14861 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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My friend in Spain says that judías are beans, all sorts of beans, for example, judías verdes are, of course, green beans. She lives in Toledo in the province of Castilla-La Mancha, so it's possible that in Cataluña judía refers just to white kidney beans. I should plan a trip to Spain in the near future and do some culinary-linguistic research!


esperanza

Aug 29, 2009, 10:28 PM

Post #15 of 24 (14857 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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Oh boy, when do we leave for Spain? That's my kind of research!

And thanks for posting what she said about judías.

I'm going to do a little investigation of my own, on a related topic, and see if I can post back here.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









mazbook1


Aug 30, 2009, 9:33 PM

Post #16 of 24 (14840 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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with all due respect, esperanza, judía IS EXACTLY the same as frijol! It's just the word used in Spain vs the word used in México. Habas, which correctly should be just a type of frijol in México, are NOT Lima beans in Spain, but only the seed of a distantly related plant, the fava. Ejotes, or green beans, is the most common word in México, but I still think I have heard them called judías here, but I could easily be mistaken on this. Of course they ARE judías verdes in Spain.

I doubt if anyone has cataloged all the various types of frijol available in México and the rest of the Americas. There are just too many. The frijol was, after all, one of the major protein sources for nearly all the tribes of the Americas once they settled into farming communities, since the other main food crop, maíz, is deficient in protein and there were no milk producing domestic animals (possibly the llama in Peru, but I don't know if they are raised for milk or not). I'll bet every little tribal grouping ended up with their own variety of frijol from either deliberate or inadvertant manual genetic selection. I have a hunch that the pinto variety came from either the Anasazi or Pueblo peoples and that is why it is common in northern México. A large percentage of the pinto beans sold in northern México are still imported from either New Mexico or Colorado in the EE.UU. where it grows best.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Aug 30, 2009, 9:36 PM)


BrentB

Sep 2, 2009, 5:29 PM

Post #17 of 24 (14798 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Frijol---Frijoles

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Then there is habichuela, a usage popular in Puerto Rico, Cuba, el resto del área caribe, Colombia and many regional variations in South America.

Then there is the ever-present frijolitos in Mexico!

Frijoles combined with rice gives one a complete protein with all essential amino acids. One could not only live on frijoles y arroz, but prosper.

brent


La Isla


Sep 2, 2009, 6:48 PM

Post #18 of 24 (14793 views)

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Re: [BrentB] Frijol---Frijoles

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In Reply To

Frijoles combined with rice gives one a complete protein with all essential amino acids. One could not only live on frijoles y arroz, but prosper.

brent


But a life lived on beans and rice alone would be so boring! I think that's why ancient Mexicans cultivated so many varieties of chile, to add a little (well, to be precise, a lot of!) flavor to their diet, not to mention a strong dose of vitamin C.


BrentB

Sep 2, 2009, 7:42 PM

Post #19 of 24 (14782 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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yes of course!


wendy devlin

Sep 3, 2009, 1:44 PM

Post #20 of 24 (14759 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Frijol---Frijoles

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You can add to another important protein boosting combo...frijoles con maiz.
Neither vegetable, as I understand it, contains a slate of anmino acids that constitutes a 'complete' protein. However eaten together...by Jove! You've got it.

Also remember reading something about the process of processing maiz with lime, which the ancients 'discovered' does something else, to add the human ability to gain further nutrition from this grass, developed over the centuries, into a substantial food crop.

Don't remember, at this moment, what this "X" factor was, without an internet search.


mazbook1


Sep 3, 2009, 7:18 PM

Post #21 of 24 (14730 views)

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Re: [BrentB] Frijol---Frijoles

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BrentB, Rice - arroz - is NOT native to México! It was introduced by the Spanish, so rice and beans wasn't available for dietary purposes before the Conquest. However, beans and rice do give a complete set of dietary protein.

wendy devlin, processing (soaking and boiling) grains of corn with lime is called nixtamalization and primarily is used to soften the hull to make it easier to grind and use. However, by some sort of luck, this process also makes the vitamin niacin available from the grain, thus preventing pellagra (niacin deficency), a rather debilitating disease. Nixtamalization also very slightly improves the availability of protein from the corn, but not enough to overcome the protein deficency of the grain. The making of hominy with lye (a much stronger alkali) does the same thing, even though it destroys the flavor of the corn by completely removing the hull and germ. Hominy became popular in the soutern U.S. when it was discovered that eating it instead of non-treated corn would prevent pellagra; something that was endemic in the south.

Unfortunately, beans and corn do not make a complete set of dietary protein; some meat, eggs, cheese, fish or other seafood is needed to make a healthy diet.


BrentB

Sep 3, 2009, 9:06 PM

Post #22 of 24 (14722 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Frijol---Frijoles

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I didn't write that rice was native to the Americas. I do think that corn is hard to digest for humans which is why natives came up with interesting ways to treat the corn.


Camille

Sep 14, 2009, 10:35 PM

Post #23 of 24 (14596 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Frijol---Frijoles

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What a great topic you introduced, I learned a lot.... and since the kitchen forum has been orphaned, this is such a delicious topic!


zaragemca

Nov 9, 2009, 4:40 PM

Post #24 of 24 (13972 views)

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Re: [Camille] Frijol---Frijoles

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Greeting In some hispanic countries ,judias is just the type of an specific frijol, as there are different type like; de Caritas, Negro, Blanco, Colorado, Garbanzos, Pintos, etc. Gerry Zaragemca
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