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Rolly


Apr 12, 2009, 8:55 AM

Post #26 of 69 (6940 views)

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Re: [colibri1] I saw a Gringo begging today

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I've probably told this story before, so forgive me if it's not new.

Many years ago while my grandmother was living in DF, my mother went for a visit. They were in the mercado when a lady carrying a baby on her back approached my mother for a donation. My grandmother advised her to give the lady some money, but Mother wouldn't. The beggar reached into her blouse and.... My mother was left indignantly wiping milk off her dress.

I always thought the story was hilarious, but my mother didn't.

Rolly Pirate


Hound Dog

Apr 12, 2009, 9:11 AM

Post #27 of 69 (6935 views)

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Re: [richmx2] I saw a Gringo begging today

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There's nothing academic about it, "gringo" is used all over the Spanish speaking world to mean a foreign-language speaker.

Allow me to reiterate my earlier published thougts on this. "Gringo" is a pejorative insult to anyone addressed as such. In truly Mexican Chiapas it would be unheard of for someone not ethnically a "gringo" to use that word in any fashion except as a direct and deep personal insult. Why can´t respònsible foreign residents refer to themselves as "foreigners" or "extranjeros?" When people of any ethnic background refer to themselves or others using insulting prejudicial language, they insult and diminish us all. Now, you folks go ahead and use insulting epithets to describe yourselves. Don´t, however, be surprised when others less sympathetic, consider you unworthy of respect.


Hound Dog

Apr 12, 2009, 10:13 AM

Post #28 of 69 (6922 views)

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Re: [Rolly] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Many years ago while my grandmother was living in DF, my mother went for a visit. They were in the mercado when a lady carrying a baby on her back approached my mother for a donation. My grandmother advised her to give the lady some money, but Mother wouldn't. The beggar reached into her blouse and.... My mother was left indignantly wiping milk off her dress.

I always thought the story was hilarious, but my mother didn't.

Rolly


Well, Rolly. I personally like that story but that may be good or bad. Years ago we were walking through a community market in ruial Guatemala when a young girl solicited money from us which we refused. A few minutes later I was the recipient of a number of stones dispatched to my back and thrown at me by that same little girl I had refused to help. That is not even nearly the worst thing that has ever happened to me in years of travel in the third world. Now, things have changed and third world doctors and hospitals just saved my life in Chiapas. Live long enough and you see all there is to see.




(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 12, 2009, 10:15 AM)


Hound Dog

Apr 12, 2009, 1:12 PM

Post #29 of 69 (6901 views)

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Re: [colibri1] I saw a Gringo begging today

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I especially enjoy giving to old frail people. It feels like a blessing.
There IS one old lady in San Miguel de Allende, though, who begs on the Mercado de los Balderramas who makes my skin crawl and I refuse to give her anything but a recriminating stare. She makes a particularly sickening whine, & once when I really didn't have anything, she cursed me...that was IT for her!!!
C1


Look, CI, as an old frail person I appreciate your largesse but leave my mom out of this. She only comes down from Palm Beach during property tax time.

One of the things I like about Mexico is that beggars generally back off upon repudiation. I spent a bit of time in North Africa in the 1980s and urban beggars there can be quite aggressive. We are pretty lucky here in my opinion.


colibri1

Apr 12, 2009, 5:25 PM

Post #30 of 69 (6877 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] I saw a Gringo begging today

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¡¡¡Ja, ja...bien chistoso!!!
Yes we are quite lucky here with the the general politeness and humility of the beggars. That really threw me when that old woman CURSED me. I always pocket a large amount of change when walking in a city, expecting supplications, but I had run out. I had given to her many times before...that was a real eye-opener.
C-One


mevale

Apr 13, 2009, 5:00 PM

Post #31 of 69 (6837 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Two things I find more interesting are that people think the word "gringo" is pejorative (not recognizing its root in medieval Castillian "greigo" ... Greek... as in the English saying "It's Greek to me": basically meaning people who use a different language) and that people seem personally offended to see beggars

Yes, I know what you mean Rich.There are those who think the widely used racial epithet "nigger"is a pejorative word but we know, don`t we Rick, that that word is demonstrative of folks from Niger in West Africa and in no way should be considered a racial slur but tell me how people of your mindset continue to bless the planet with your cup of bile aimed at others not of your stripe or of your stripe which you find distaseful.

"Gringo" is an insulting word just as are all racial or ethnic epithets and if you don`t see that then hide behind your academician´s blouse as you wish but leave the rest of us to be.


Are you kidding? First of all, I've heard you speak Spanish, and you ain't good enough to understand the culture or appoint yourself arbiter of Mexican social do's and don'ts. Secondly, to conflate the usage of "gringo" with the usage of "nigger" is downright laughable. I'm not going to preach here, but here's a suggestion: Go to Google Mexico, then go to Las Noticias and type in "gringo" and you will see articles where it is used in many different ways; disdainfully, playfully, mockingly, jokingly, friendly, etc. You'll also find about 15 Latin American jugadores de fútbol with the apodo "gringo". It's about as intelligent as advising a friend that "cabrón" is a horrible word, and shouldn't be used under any circumstances. Good advice - up to a point. What will he think of the Mexicans that he become friends with calling him "cabrón" all of the time. Thank god most Mexicans aren't so prissy when it comes to language.

To say "gringo" is the equal of "nigger" is one of the more foolish statements I've heard, and to accuse a poster of hiding behind a "academician's blouse" is ironic considering you're riding your wife's coattails on this one. I've heard her make the same argument on the other forum, and I showed her evidence (by quoting several Mexican friends and sources), that her interpretation is too rigid, and as with all rigid interpretations, only partially true. But hey, you and she can believe what you want, but every time you insult somebody over an interpretation that differs with yours, I'll post what I've posted here.

Here's some Mexicans talking about the word on the WordReference forum:

[this section has been deleted by a moderator since it is not considered netiquette to repeat posts made on other forums unless you are the author of the original post/s in question - please feel free to provide a link to the other forum if you so wish]









(This post was edited by tonyburton on Apr 13, 2009, 7:21 PM)


arbon

Apr 13, 2009, 5:54 PM

Post #32 of 69 (6816 views)

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Re: [willieboy] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Have you been warned about using "cabrón" in Veracruz?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



BluChunx

Aug 12, 2009, 2:02 PM

Post #33 of 69 (6606 views)

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Re: [tashby] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Good odds anyone you see begging has suffered some brain damage resulting from physical impact, mental disorder such as schizophrenia, or some other cause. I've been through the impact type of injury. It is a long road back for many survivors. Even if the person can recover from the damage, there are usually some leftover memory problems. And many folks have disruptions that they do not recover from or that are from birth.

Unless you have experienced it, there's no way you can fully get how disabling it is. And as an "invisible" disability, it is open to moral judgments and harsh treatment. It is very important that we become educated about this problem. Many of these folks commit suicide because they lose hope or have "absorbed" antiquated moral judgments and blame themselves.

The greatest irony, perhaps, is when you encounter someone who was a very judgmental bootstraps mentality person who suffers such an injury and has to come to terms with being dependent.

A very large percentage of the population experiences some kind of brain injury because of car accidents and so forth. And this isn't even touching the issue of substance abuse.

What we are learning is that "choice" is much more complicated than it seems. I think saying that someone "made a choice" is usually for the convenience of the person saying it.

I'm not pointing fingers. It's important to me to bring in this perspective. I am intimate with it as a result of working with disabled people and then experiencing my own disability that has led to quite a journey in getting my life back.


Oscar2

Aug 13, 2009, 12:36 PM

Post #34 of 69 (6534 views)

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Re: [BluChunx] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Quote
Unless you have experienced it, there's no way you can fully get how disabling it is. And as an "invisible" disability, it is open to moral judgments and harsh treatment. It is very important that we become educated about this problem. Many of these folks commit suicide because they lose hope or have "absorbed" antiquated moral judgments and blame themselves.




BluChunx,

On the surface the depth and sensitivity of your empathy born from an experience tied so close to who you are today, was very touching and mind opening. The bootstrap callousness and sometimes-unnoticed regiment of ones outlook on life can easily scorn, ignore and sometimes even scathe the existence of those who are so heavily compromised.

This to me, now, is indeed sad. I too have personally but yet indirectly been overcome by this imbalance generated by someone very close to me’s drug abuse. The love, the tenderness, the concern for them becomes anger, ambivalence, and a mixture of turbulence, so difficult to deal with that you begin to resent them without knowing how much you are hurting yourself and them as well.

After a few years embroiled in ambivalence, empathy, concern and more, the changes medication, consoling and more, can have on this person “at times” seemingly leaves them like an empty vessel where life, as we know it, has just been sucked out of them, and yes, they are indeed slower. I too look at this with much more compassion but still try to fight off these little demons trying to convince me to be intolerant in an idealistic world of indifference.

I liked your post and definitely have a much deeper appreciation of what your eyes have seen and your heart has felt.

Gracias y Buena Suerte


BluChunx

Aug 13, 2009, 1:39 PM

Post #35 of 69 (6516 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Thanks for your gracious response, Oscar. Drug/alcohol addiction is so rough!

I talk to family members who don't realize that something is causing a cognitive impairment in a relative. They may mention things like hoarding (which stems from difficulty making decisions and grasping priorities), disorganization (same plus memory problems), financial problems (same, including disorganization or loss of employment or productivity), and so on.

Somtimes they act like they think their family member woke up one day and decided to be lazy or immoral. It was probably a small stroke, a good bump on the head, psychological trauma, sleep problems such as sleep apnea, or some other physical factor. Especially when there is a behavior change. A neuropsych exam is in order, and a lot of support and understanding. In some towns there are support groups such as the Brain Injury Foundation, ADD groups, and the like.

A big problem is that the mental health field usually botches this issue. Therapists and even a lot of psychiatrists, do not assess for this and educate their clients adequately. This has to change. How many people have lost their homes or suicided because of this neglect? Probably quite a few!

Oofff. I'm on my soap box. But this information can help many families because they may not get it from the professionals they encounter.


cindyblu

Aug 19, 2009, 11:32 AM

Post #36 of 69 (6405 views)

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Re: [BluChunx] I saw a Gringo begging today

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A beggar has taken up residence six feet from my friend's front door. But she lives on the fourth floor and now when I press the intercom button and wait for her to buzz me in, I can't hear if she has answered and is at home because the beggar is making a lot of noise yelling at me to give him money. The entire time I'm standing there waiting, he's yelling real loud and it happens repeatedly. He has become such a nuisance that yesterday, I told him to be quiet.


BajaGringo


Aug 19, 2009, 11:44 AM

Post #37 of 69 (6401 views)

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Re: [cindyblu] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Cindy - That just goes to the point that many of these cases are mental health issues. Making the decision to give money to these people is a personal one and at times, often hard to know whether we really are helping them or not. Especially if they are using the money to finance their addictions as is also the case with some...


Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula


cindyblu

Aug 19, 2009, 12:12 PM

Post #38 of 69 (6390 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Hound Dog, I must agree with you because having lived in Italy for eight years, I have NEVER heard an Italian refer to a foreigner as anything other than "straniero" or call them by nationality, such as "Americano", "Americana", "Greco", "Franchese", "Egiziano", etc. Personally, when in Mexico, I don't intend to refer to myself as a Gringo, but rather as an "Americana" or an "Italo-Americana".


BajaGringo


Aug 19, 2009, 2:19 PM

Post #39 of 69 (6374 views)

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Re: [cindyblu] I saw a Gringo begging today

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"Americano" is not a nationality. I was reminded of that as a teenager when I lived in Argentina back in the early 70's...


Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula


esperanza

Aug 19, 2009, 2:42 PM

Post #40 of 69 (6368 views)

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Re: [cindyblu] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Hound Dog, I must agree with you because having lived in Italy for eight years, I have NEVER heard an Italian refer to a foreigner as anything other than "straniero" or call them by nationality, such as "Americano", "Americana", "Greco", "Franchese", "Egiziano", etc. Personally, when in Mexico, I don't intend to refer to myself as a Gringo, but rather as an "Americana" or an "Italo-Americana".

Better to call yourself an 'estadounidense'. And I applaud you for not using the 'G' word.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









RickS


Aug 19, 2009, 2:50 PM

Post #41 of 69 (6366 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I saw a Gringo begging today

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'estadounidense'

Could you phonetically sound that out for me......?


ken_in_dfw

Aug 19, 2009, 2:57 PM

Post #42 of 69 (6362 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I saw a Gringo begging today

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Hound Dog, I must agree with you because having lived in Italy for eight years, I have NEVER heard an Italian refer to a foreigner as anything other than "straniero" or call them by nationality, such as "Americano", "Americana", "Greco", "Franchese", "Egiziano", etc. Personally, when in Mexico, I don't intend to refer to myself as a Gringo, but rather as an "Americana" or an "Italo-Americana".

Better to call yourself an 'estadounidense'. And I applaud you for not using the 'G' word.


Can you really say that made-up word with a straight face? I just prefer to say, "mi lugar de nacimiento es los Estados Unidos," or "vengo de los Estados Unidos" and leave it at that.

You gotta admit, neither "estadounidense" nor "unitedstatesian" exactly rolls off the tongue.


jerezano

Aug 19, 2009, 6:23 PM

Post #43 of 69 (6338 views)

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Re: [RickS] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Hello,

You asked: >>>Could you phonetically sound that out for me......? <<<

es tah doe un ee DEN so or sa

jerezano


BajaGringo


Aug 19, 2009, 6:27 PM

Post #44 of 69 (6333 views)

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Re: [kenhjr] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Exactly. Green-go is much easier...


Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula


esperanza

Aug 19, 2009, 7:19 PM

Post #45 of 69 (6321 views)

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Re: [BajaGringo] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Estadounidense is not a made-up word, it's the correct word for the nationality of someone who comes from the United States.

El presidente estadounidense, Barack Obama, estuve en Guadalajara hace ratito
.

Practice the pronunciation till you can say it. You'll sound much more educado (in the Mexican sense) than if you call yourself that other thing.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Aug 19, 2009, 7:20 PM)


BajaGringo


Aug 19, 2009, 7:38 PM

Post #46 of 69 (6315 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I saw a Gringo begging today

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I think there is a difference whether you live on the mainland or peninsula and by age group as well. To make such a broad sweeping statement is not completely accurate IMHO.

I base that on 35+ years of life experience in Latin America. Or I suppose you can just call my Mexican wife uneducated...

Newspapers here on the Baja peninsula have used the term Gringo in headlines and I have heard the term used many times on Spanish network news out of Miami. It is typically more common to hear the term used by those under 40 than those over 50. My wife is "educada" and in her early 30's. I am just making a guess but I would wager you are over 50.

Language use and terminology changes over time, whether we like it or not. I don''t believe you still use the King's English, at least not based on your posts...


Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula


(This post was edited by BajaGringo on Aug 19, 2009, 8:04 PM)


ken_in_dfw

Aug 19, 2009, 7:53 PM

Post #47 of 69 (6310 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I saw a Gringo begging today

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In Reply To
Estadounidense is not a made-up word, it's the correct word for the nationality of someone who comes from the United States.

El presidente estadounidense, Barack Obama, estuve en Guadalajara hace ratito
.

Practice the pronunciation till you can say it. You'll sound much more educado (in the Mexican sense) than if you call yourself that other thing.


OR, you could say El presidente de los Estados Unidos, Barack Obama, estuve en Guadalajara hace ratito and sound just as educado without getting your tongue tied in knots.

Just avoid the adverb altogether!


(This post was edited by kenhjr on Aug 19, 2009, 8:04 PM)


johanson


Aug 19, 2009, 8:37 PM

Post #48 of 69 (6296 views)

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Re: [kenhjr] I saw a Gringo begging today

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You wrote "hace ratito" Is Rato or ratito a normal word? I often say "a rato bato" or "a rato buey" with my younger friends. Because that is what I learned in the streets. But when I look up Rato in the dictionary, I can not find it.

Isn't the word rato or ratito just slang?


Manuel Dexterity

Aug 19, 2009, 8:50 PM

Post #49 of 69 (6294 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I saw a Gringo begging today

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In Reply To
Estadounidense is not a made-up word, it's the correct word for the nationality of someone who comes from the United States.

El presidente estadounidense, Barack Obama, estuve en Guadalajara hace ratito
.

Practice the pronunciation till you can say it. You'll sound much more educado (in the Mexican sense) than if you call yourself that other thing.



Obama estuvE aqui?

If you are going to pontificate you might want to avoid beginner's mistakes.

Obama estuvO aqui hace unos dias, (no hace un ratito).

We need a rolls eyes smiley on this board.


(This post was edited by Tio Copas on Aug 19, 2009, 9:03 PM)


db52

Aug 19, 2009, 9:10 PM

Post #50 of 69 (6285 views)

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Re: [Tio Copas] I saw a Gringo begging today

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Oh, great! The "is 'gringo' a perjorative?" controversy raises its head once more!

When folks ask where I'm from, I tell them I'm from Michigan. "Detroit, home of the Tigers."

If one is sensitive about such things, it seems easy enough to me to avoid using the word in conversation and, if others use it, to just let it go like water off a duck's back. If you want to be 'touchy,' on the other hand, well...
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