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cathyt

Aug 2, 2009, 6:12 AM

Post #1 of 15 (5894 views)

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Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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If we get a vehicle permit and cross the border into Mexico with an FMT, can we cross the border into the US - without the vehicle - then re-cross back into Mexico?
We want to leave the car at our house in Mexico, and take the bus to the border in order to get to the Phoenix Airport to take a trip.
thanks alot for any information.
Cathy Taylor

jreboll

Aug 2, 2009, 7:50 AM

Post #2 of 15 (5881 views)

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Re: [cathyt] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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Yes you can. We have had to fly out of Mexico on emergencies while on vacation there and then gone back to return the car.

Altahabana

Aug 2, 2009, 8:17 AM

Post #3 of 15 (5872 views)

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Re: [cathyt] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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Yes. The permit allows a specific vehicle to be temporarily imported into the country. It concerns the legal status of the vehicle, not the person importing it. The FMT in your case determines your personal legal status. In any event, Mexico does not have immigration checks for persons leaving the country by land.

Papirex

Aug 2, 2009, 10:10 AM

Post #4 of 15 (5857 views)

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Re: [cathyt] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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You can probably get away with it, but it is improper. The temporary vehicle import permit for a foreign car is valid for as long as the importers immigration status (visa) is valid. It may only be driven by the importer and spouse, parents, offspring, and siblings of the importer, and foreign persons with the same immigration status as the importer. Unrelated Mexican citizens may only drive the car when accompanied by the original importer.

We used to have 2 US registered and plated cars here with temporary import permits for them. We later nationalized them under 2 different vehicle amnesties to avoid the bother and restrictions of the temporary import permits.

If you turn in your FMT when you leave the country, the car becomes illegal. If you do leave the car here when you leave, it is very important to put it in a secure place Where no one may drive it in your absence. Some people have posted that they left the keys to their cars with a trusted Mexican to start it once in a while when they were out of the country.

When they returned, they found that their gardener or housekeeper had been illegally driving it. Do not leave the keys with anyone, and lock the car up securely. If an illegal driver is stopped by the police, the consequences for the driver will probably be nil. For the owner and importer of the car it could be serious, up to the possible loss of the car. All drivers are not ordinarily covered by Mexican auto insurance policies either, you usually must put them on the policy as drivers for them to be covered.

If you will be absent for a long period, disconnect the battery. Believe it or not, the tiny trickle of electricity to power the radio's clock will drain the battery after a few months. That's an old RVers trick when storing a motor home for the winter. It works.

Good luck and take care if you are going to leave a temporarily imported foreign car in México in your absence.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

RickS

Aug 2, 2009, 10:53 AM

Post #5 of 15 (5847 views)

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Re: [cathyt] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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Under the OP's plan of action, they will probably be OK (leaving the country by land so no one will be asking for the FM-T to which the vehicle permit is tied). But as Rex says, 'it is improper'.

However, one poster suggested that they flew out and back into the country and didn't have a problem. They were probably somewhat lucky because: upon leaving, the airline would have taken the FM-T that was tied to the vehicle, and upon the re-entry flight they would have been issued another FM-T which has no ties to the vehicle. Under 'most' circumstances the authorities will be unaware of this, but if something happens (wreck, theft of vehicle, or any other event wherein someone official would be looking at the FM-T connection to the vehicle) the discrepancy could be detected and then.......

I actually did this once (drove in then flew out and back) and went to some measure to cover myself, and then..... the airline failed to request/take my original FM-T upon leaving. So whenI flew back in on a one-way ticket, I was given another FM-T which I promptly threw away. Of course nothing ever happened that would require me to show my FM-T and its tie to my vehicle, but...... Having said all that, it, as Rex said, was not 'proper'.

But many things in Mexico are not.

chinagringo

Aug 2, 2009, 12:04 PM

Post #6 of 15 (5837 views)

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Re: [RickS] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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This is a good theory that the vehicle permit is tied to the visa. However, from our experience I wonder how it can be. We have always received our vehicle permit at the Mexican Consulate in Albuquerque but they will not do FMT's there. We always have to stop at the border crossing at Santa Teresa, NM to get our FMT's. They have NEVER asked for our vehicle permit during the issuing process. Furthermore, the "Aduana" just down the highway is a pickup truck and small shack. Nothing is ever entered into a computer there!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

robrt8

Aug 2, 2009, 2:25 PM

Post #7 of 15 (5825 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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In Reply To

If you turn in your FMT when you leave the country, the car becomes illegal.
Rex

Not true. The permit is valid as long as the permit is valid.. or as long as the importer maintains their legal status (via obtaining an FM3/2).
I don't know where the "tied to the fmt" story came from. That's not currently the case.

RickS

Aug 2, 2009, 2:59 PM

Post #8 of 15 (5817 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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robrt8, are you suggesting that when one crosses the border into Mexico by land, gets an FM-T and a temporary vehicle permit, that these two documents are NOT tied to each other in any way... in a computer or not? If this is your point, then your information is contradictory to all that I have heard and seen about this issue for many years. Can you provide some data that backs up your assertion?

Papirex

Aug 2, 2009, 4:04 PM

Post #9 of 15 (5805 views)

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Re: [RickS] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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The temporary vehicle import permit is not linked to any particular visa, but the importers immigration status must be current. If an importer turns in a FMT visa when leaving the country and the car stays in México, the importer has no immigration status until h/she returns and gets another visa of any kind.

The expiration date on the import permit means nothing if the importer has no visa, it is invalidated as soon as the first visa expires or is surrendered upon leaving the country.

If a vehicle is temporarily imported by a person using a FMT visa and that importer later gets a FM2/3 visa in México, the temporary import permit remains valid. Many corrupt cops claim otherwise when trying to extort money from uniformed drivers, that is probably where the myth of the temporary vehicle import permit being “linked” to the original visa came from.

A cop tried that scam on my Mexican wife about ten years ago in México City. He didn't get away with it.

Remember, if a case makes it to a court here, logic doesn't count for anything, only the way the law and procedures are written does, and hearsay evidence is accepted. The judges decision is final and no court decision here sets a precedent to be followed in future, similar cases. I have been to a court on a civil matter here, the side with the best liars always wins. Follow the rules as best you can even though they are constantly changing, and you will find less trouble.

Whatever you do, do not do anything that seems logical until you have verified what the responsible authority wants you to do. Do not rely on the reasoning or advice of anybody, including me. Verify, verify, verify.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Altahabana

Aug 3, 2009, 4:24 AM

Post #10 of 15 (5759 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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"The temporary vehicle import permit is not linked to any particular visa, but the importers immigration status must be current. If an importer turns in a FMT visa when leaving the country and the car stays in México, the importer has no immigration status until h/she returns and gets another visa of any kind. . . . .The expiration date on the import permit means nothing if the importer has no visa, it is invalidated as soon as the first visa expires or is surrendered upon leaving the country."

That is my understanding about how the system works. You certainly need an FMT in order to get a permit and in the usual case the traveler gets them at the same time so the expiration dates are the same. But I am looking at the document that contains the permit and it makes no reference to the form of my immigrant/non-immigrant status and does not link to the number of my FMT. Both the vehicle permit and the FMT are valid for mutliple entries until the expiration date.

The car would be out of status if the owner turned in the FMT before it expired when leaving Mexico, but it would become legal again (as long the permit itself had not expired) when the owner re-entered and got another FMT. But in that case the permit would still expire on the date indicated on the permit and not on the date the new FMT expires.

I presumed in my first response that the OP was leaving on a short trip and the FMT would still be valid when she returned to Mexico. Since she will not have to turn in the FMT when leaving by land and can re-enter with the same FMT there is no problem that I can see. The scenario might be different with an FM2/FM3 as far as the link between the permit and the actual visa or when there is a conversion from an FMT to another status, but that would not apply in the OP's situation.

robrt8

Aug 3, 2009, 8:51 AM

Post #11 of 15 (5737 views)

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Re: [RickS] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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The importer and the permit are "tied". There are two separate agencies involved. At the border, first the visa (immigration) and second, the temporary importation permit (Aduana/Banjecito), whose duration is assigned according to the visa. The importer agrees to follow important rules and obligations. Nowhere I've read does it say do not leave Mexico during the duration of the permit.
That's at the border. Online the permit is issued without the visa.

Good discussion. I could be wrong. But I feel good enough about it to do this myself. Many others do it too.

Papirex

Aug 3, 2009, 9:01 AM

Post #12 of 15 (5732 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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I am not trying to give any legal advice here, I am certainly not qualified to do that. A person does not need to have only an FMT visa to get a temporary vehicle import permit, but any type of visa so that the importers immigration status is legal in México.

The first car I got a temporary import permit for, was when I had an FMT visa. I had a FM3 visa when I imported the second car. That was improper since I had already imported one car in my name. We tried to import the second car in my Mexican wife's name.

A Mexican citizen may temporarily import a foreign car if the Mexican citizen can prove that they do not reside in México permanently. My wife has a US permanent residency card (green card), and we do maintain a US address, that qualifies her eligibility to temporarily import a foreign car. The incompetents at the office issuing the vehicle import permit at the border did not know about that section of the law they were supposed to be enforcing and they insisted that the van be imported in my name, because they said (incorrectly) that my Mexican wife was ineligible to temporarily import a foreign car. She did temporarily import a third car in her name a year later at a different office.

This all happened when the computer records for temporarily imported vehicles was first being implemented, and I don't think there was a computer record of the first car we brought to México.

Well, you must often go with the flow here, so I let them put the second temporary vehicle import permit in my name. That is partially what I mean about never using your own logic to interpret what effect any laws or regulations mean down here. To avoid hassles, it is wise to do what the authorities say, and not what is written in any law or regulation or on any permit. Do not assume that your own logical interpretation will be accepted as correct just because it is. Check with the (in)competent authority and go from there. Verify, verify, verify.

I will add a bit of semi-unrelated information here. Part of my wife's family owns one of the largest upscale printing companies in México. One of her dual-citizen uncles lives in Phoenix and he is the US purchasing agent for his families printing business. That guy knows every way there is to get around any import laws and how to smuggle just about anything over the border. His advice was invaluable about how to illegally leave the first car in México with no Mexican address for a few years when we went back to Alaska before our permanent move to México. If you are not related to him, he will not give any help or advice.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by Papirex on Aug 3, 2009, 9:06 AM)

Altahabana

Aug 3, 2009, 11:48 AM

Post #13 of 15 (5712 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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I understand that any type of immigrant status will allow an extranjero to obtain a temporary import permit. The OP holds an FMT so I used that as a reference.

Sunnyvmx

Aug 6, 2009, 3:58 AM

Post #14 of 15 (5655 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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In my case, the RV has received a 10 year permit while I receive the FMT for 180 days. Each document expires on a different date. I am expected to leave and reenter in a timely manner separately from the RV. Both the FMT and vehicle permit must only be linked by my name as I see it.

I left with a friend and reentered by land turning in my FMT and obtaining a new one this year. At neither crossing was I questioned as to the whereabouts of my vehicle. Because my friend drives an RV pulling a trailer containing a motorcycle (which can only receive the 180 day vehicle permit) his RV would only be permitted for 180 days instead of the 10 year allowance.

http://dementias-daughter.com. Now over 25,000 hits.

mexicomike

Aug 18, 2009, 9:57 AM

Post #15 of 15 (5529 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Vehicle Permit & crossing the border

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I agree that there are generally no immigration checks for leaving Mexico by land, BUT that is not a constant. I have been on busses that have been boarded by immigration officials at the 21 kilometer (more or less) checkpoint, and have been in vehicles where all cars were stopped and asked to cancel their papers. Regardless, it is not proper to leave the country without your vehicle.

When the folks who want to leave without their vehicle come back, they will face the dilemma of their immigration status.

Also, as someone else pointed out, if their car is driven while they are gone, it is illegal. I got a call from a woman whose car was stolen while she was in the States. The insurance company would not pay because she was illegally out of the country. So, is it worth it?

FMT’s are registered in a computer just like the car permits. While you are right, for many years one could safely disregard their disposition, that has not been the case for at least 4 years, as that is when I was 'caught' and refused entry to the country. 4 1/2 years ago, I got a new FMT. The next time I got busted. I saw my computer record going back to 1996 for unreturned permits. My story is at http://mexicomike.com/driving/lost_car_permits.html The bottom line is that I paid a fine (negotiated), got a receipt and am again able to enter the country. The next time I got an FMT (at another crossing), the official smiled and said, “I see you paid a fine for not returning your tourist permits. You will return this one, yes?”

If someone uses a passport to enter, it will be painfully obvious to the immigration official that they did not return their permit. But, since I never used a passport, it is obvious that it does not matter.

Since that happened to me, I have been contacted by several dozen people who also got busted. I make a living consulting with people going to Mexico. My advice – pay the man.

"Mexico" Mike Nelson
www.mexicomike.com
Writing about Mexico for 40 years.
Maps, Road Logs for drivers
Author of "Live Better South of the Border."
"Spas & Hot Springs of Mexico."
Mexico is a state of mind.

(This post was edited by mexicomike on Aug 18, 2009, 10:15 AM)