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gpkgto

Jul 15, 2009, 8:32 AM

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Calling all Canadians...

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OK Cannucks--what's up with the new visa requirement for Mexicans? Now that I am a Mexican, I am offended. Supposedly Mexico may impose stricter visa requirements on Canadians.

Papirex

Jul 15, 2009, 9:47 AM

Post #2 of 38 (9545 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Not being a Canadian, I can't specifically answer your question, but but my cuñado is a dual US-Mexican citizen. He simply carries two passports. When leaving The US he shows his US passport. When entering México, he shows his Mexican passport. He does the reverse when he returns, no visas are ever required. He has the world by the tail for traveling between the two countries.

He lives in Tacoma, Washington. He works at the Boeing aircraft factory in Seattle. He has the second highest seniority rating of any Boeing worker, he is layoff proof, but he will retire in the next year or two and live in México.

He was born in Texas to an American father and a Mexican mother, he is a US citizen by birth. He was raised in México City. He was forced to leave México at the age of sixteen under threat of deportation when the high school he was attending discovered that he was not a Mexican citizen at that time and they notified the Mexican immigration service. His parents did not realize that they needed to get a visa for their infant son when they moved back to México.

He did not speak English at that time and he was sent to live with an uncle in Alaska. It was a very traumatic time for him, but he has lived in The US for 40 years, and he is as American as they come now. He “reclaimed” his Mexican citizenship because of his Mexican parentage under a program the Mexican federal government started a few years ago. He is now as Mexican as they come too.

He prefers to speak English now, but he is of course fluent in Spanish although he sometimes will forget a word or two. We were in a restaurant once and he turned to his sister (my wife) and in the middle of a conversation in Spanish, he said the English words “well done.” He was asking her for the Spanish words to ask for his meat to be cooked the way he likes it.

Anyway, I don't know what the Canadian laws on it may be, but if you are able to maintain your Canadian passport as a dual citizen as an American can, you will probably have no problems.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Marlene

Jul 15, 2009, 4:34 PM

Post #3 of 38 (9500 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Yes, I can confirm that my husband was also most annoyed and offended when we first heard the news yesterday. It came as a bit of a shock. After we did some checking on the facts, as reported on the Canadian government website, he was in full agreement with the decison. It boils down to a VERY serious abuse of the Canadian Refugee program. It seems many "unscrupulous operativos" in Mexico were taking money in exchange for coaching on how to apply for refugee status in Canada. How convenient. The numbers are staggering. There were 9,400 refugee claims from Mexicans last year and in the first half of this year it was up yet another 50%. This has been going on for at least 5 years, and escalating. Each refugee claim costs the Canadian taxpayer $29,000 dollars and only 11 % of the claims were approved. The system has become extremely bogged down for legitimate refugee claims. Canada and Mexico have been aware of, and discussing, this situation for quite some time. Mexico will not do any retaliating.

It's a shame, because now each and every Mexican entering Canada needs a "temporary resident" visa including my husband of 8 years. Tourism in Canada will suffer as a result, since Mexican tourists love Canada, but the door was slammed shut with no real warning at the start of summer tourist season. My husband will immediately apply for his multi-entry visa, good for 5 years, but he expects a huge wait because the Embassy in Mexico City is inundated. That said, the process will be still be easier and cheaper for Mexicans than obtaining a US tourist visa. It can be sent in by mail or courier service.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jul 15, 2009, 5:00 PM)

jennifer rose

Jul 15, 2009, 5:31 PM

Post #4 of 38 (9477 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Calling all Canadians...

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"He was born in Texas to an American father and a Mexican mother, he is a US citizen by birth. He was raised in México City. He was forced to leave México at the age of sixteen under threat of deportation when the high school he was attending discovered that he was not a Mexican citizen at that time and they notified the Mexican immigration service. His parents did not realize that they needed to get a visa for their infant son when they moved back to México. "

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Was not Article 30 (a)(II) of the Mexican Constitution in full force and effect during the relevant periods above?

Article 30 - Mexican nationality is acquired by birth or by naturalization.
a) Mexicans by birth are:
III. Those born in foreign territory, sons or daughters of Mexican parents by naturalization, of a Mexican father by naturalization, or of a Mexican mother by naturalization;

Scottm

Jul 15, 2009, 6:29 PM

Post #5 of 38 (9452 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Calling all Canadians...

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But, as a Canadian, to enter Mexico I need a visa, right ? Not only do I need an FMT or FM3, I need to pay cash to
get my butt into their beautiful country. On top of that, I need to pay more cash just to get my car across the border.
I have nothing but admiration for their requirements...it's a neat way to generate income, but when our government
suggests a similar document, the stuff hits the fan. How would it look if we Canucks lobbied the Mexican government
to rescind their immigration paper shuffling, so we can just whiz past customs by flashing our passports ?
Sadly (?), Canada is looked at as a milk and honey destination for too many foreign nationals that abuse our incredibly
generous hospitality and benefits. A real refugee, needing protection from wacko overseas despots should always
be welcomed to become part of our nation, but those opportunists that simply flop up to our door to suck up the
lifetime of benefits we offer, should be deterred.

Papirex

Jul 15, 2009, 6:38 PM

Post #6 of 38 (9448 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Calling all Canadians...

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My cuñado was given one week to leave México or he would be forcibly deported when he was just sixteen years old. This happened in 1968, long before I was a part of the family so it is hard to tell at this time what, if any procedures were followed, or if any legal procedures were applied at all.

I did wonder how he “regained” his Mexican citizenship, since my understanding of that program was that it was intended to benefit people born in other countries whose parents were both Mexican citizens. His mother was born in México City, but his father was a Mexican-American born in Texas. I only met the man once before his death some 20 years ago, and the status of his citizenship was never discussed. From your post it now seems that having one parent that is a Mexican citizen may qualify a person to regain their Mexican citizenship.

I do not know, but I do not doubt that the people threatening to deport my cuñado were not aware of, or following Mexican laws fully.

The old saying is “Alls well that ends well.” I'm not going to rock the boat by asking difficult questions now.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by Papirex on Jul 15, 2009, 6:55 PM)

Marlene

Jul 15, 2009, 6:49 PM

Post #7 of 38 (9446 views)

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Re: [Scottm] Calling all Canadians...

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Canada did not introduce this visa requirement to "generate income" as you commented. This action could be more accurately compared to the USA visa procedure required of Mexicans for years and years. Canada was forced into this for a specific reason. You, as a Canadian, can enter Mexico with no approval or screening (other than a valid passport of course). The amount of money involved is small potatoes.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jul 15, 2009, 6:57 PM)

tonyburton

Jul 15, 2009, 7:38 PM

Post #8 of 38 (9423 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Among the requirements are some which make obtaining a Canadian visa for a Mexican national who wishes to visit Canada even more onerous than those required for the same individual to obtain a US visa to visit the USA. For instance, unless I'm very much mistaken, the Canadian visa application forms require that the applicant lists every address they have ever lived at, and every job (or period of unemployment), with no gaps in either case. They also require that the applicant list all children, stepchildren etc, and all brothers and sisters, together with their addresses. This requirement appears to apply regardless of whether or not any of these children or siblings are traveling with the applicant. The requirements for a US visa were nowhere near this stringent last time I applied for one.

Tab

Jul 16, 2009, 6:54 AM

Post #9 of 38 (9363 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Calling all Canadians...

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Jennifer,

Out of curiosity, under "Article 30 - Mexican nationality is acquired by birth or by naturalization", would that mean that if a Canadian couple gave birth to their baby in Mexico, that baby could aquire Mexican citizenship when it's born? I know that is true for most places, but am not sure if that is the case in Mexico.

jennifer rose

Jul 16, 2009, 7:06 AM

Post #10 of 38 (9355 views)

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Re: [Tab] Calling all Canadians...

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Bingo! Yes, a child born on Mexican territory of foreign parents, regardless of the parents' nationality, is a Mexican by birth.

pana

Jul 16, 2009, 3:13 PM

Post #11 of 38 (9288 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Calling all Canadians...

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It's not just Mexicans who have had the rules changed recently
Airlines start vetting Czechs at Prague airport
Airlines at Prague airport started checking Canada-bound Czech passengers on Thursday to make sure that they have the required visas for entry into the country. Canada announced the re-imposition of visas for Czechs on Tuesday but allowed visa demands at its frontiers for the first 48 hours. Some of the Czechs flying out on Thursday complained about the last minute stress they had been exposed to. Many have been forced to seek visas at the Canadian embassy in Vienna. Two applicants of the around 200 dealt with there during the first two days were refused visas according to official reports. The Canadian move has been sparked by the surge of Czech asylum applications, mostly from the Roma (Gypsy) community.

Pana

gpkgto

Jul 16, 2009, 4:49 PM

Post #12 of 38 (9267 views)

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Re: [pana] Calling all Canadians...

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4000 Mexicans went to the Canadian embassy in Mexico City yesterday for visas. In Toronto, Mexicans make up the 3rd largest tourist group. IMO, the Czech visa situation is a coverup to make it look like it is not aimed at just Mexicans.

tonyburton

Jul 16, 2009, 7:30 PM

Post #13 of 38 (9240 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Thursday July 16: WASHINGTON (AFP)--Mexico will require Canadian officials and diplomats to obtain advance visas in response to a new visa requirement for Mexicans visiting Canada, Mexico's foreign minister said Thursday.
"Today, we have decided to suspend the agreement that allowed a visa exemption for official and diplomatic passport holders," Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa said Thursday in Washington.

For full text, visit http://news.morningstar.com/...NLINE001012_univ.xml

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jul 16, 2009, 7:31 PM)

Jean_S

Jul 21, 2009, 4:19 PM

Post #14 of 38 (9049 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Calling all Canadians...

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The simple fact is that those refugee claims, of which 90% were rejected, cost the Canadian taxpayer nearly 1/3 of a billion dollars.

For Canada, population 30 million, that's a lot of money and we all know who pays in the end...the Canadian taxpayer.

I too was shocked when I first heard the story, but when I understood the complete story I was in agreement with what the government did. It's unfortunate that a few spoiled it for all Mexicans.

I also think Mexico's response was appropriate. It made a statement without affecting tourism.

TlxcalaClaudia

Jul 21, 2009, 5:58 PM

Post #15 of 38 (9028 views)

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Re: [Jean_S] Calling all Canadians...

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Quote

How? Does the Canadian govt. take care of the refugees financially and to what extent?

(This post was edited by TlxcalaClaudia on Jul 21, 2009, 5:59 PM)

wendy devlin

Jul 21, 2009, 6:47 PM

Post #16 of 38 (9018 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Here's a sense of the numbers about this situation.

In recent years, Canada has experienced a jump in annual refugee claims by Mexicans from 5 to 3000.

At the Canadian tax-payers' expense, ALL, refugees get a ONE TIME initial payment of $1890 dollars to help them start up with clothes, food and other household needs. They also get $580.00 a month in assistance, but only for ONE year.
**********************
That's close to $27M just in welfare for the 3000 claimants, not including free lawyers, judges, and processing costs.

Around 88 % of those Mexican refugee claims are rejected.

And the claimants are sent back to Mexico, after the year or more that it takes for their claim to go through the immigration system. Many of those claimants did not arrive in Canada directly from Mexico but by land from the U.S. Some paid, large sums of money to economic 'coyotes' to help them get into the country. Often the claimants were told, incorrectly, that it would be easy to get into Canada from Mexico as a refugee.

Meanwhile thousands of other refugee claims from other countries, are also been received and processed in the same manner. The back-log of cases is jamming the system and something had to be done.

There's more to the whole situation than these few details, but perhaps this answer will help explain the costs involved.

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Jul 21, 2009, 6:49 PM)

TlxcalaClaudia

Jul 21, 2009, 8:32 PM

Post #17 of 38 (8993 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Calling all Canadians...

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Wendy - Thanks for the details.

gpkgto

Jul 22, 2009, 6:03 AM

Post #18 of 38 (8960 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Calling all Canadians...

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Shouldn't Canada change its asylum laws instead of its visa requirements?

Moisheh

Jul 22, 2009, 6:41 PM

Post #19 of 38 (8876 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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gpkisner:

You probably do not realize that most of my fellow Canadians are bleeding heart Liberals. Refugees from other foreign countries have been milking our systems for years. Many of the so called refugees from African countries end up staying here for years. Most are on welfare and some even have 2 or 3 ID's and claim welfare multiple times. A legitimate refugee not only gets welfare Canada will pay for an education or trades school. I would add more to this post but it would become political and upset Jennifer! I have seen many adds in the Hermosillo paper for Mexicans to come and work in Canada. Some were legitimate and sponsored by the Canadian Government. These were short term jobs in agriculture and other industries that have a shortage of willing workers. Other adds were designed to look official but the email adresses were bogus. Sounds like a profitable venture!! I also wonder how any Mexican would qualify as a refugee. Mexico is not Rwanda. The only war in Mexico is the drug war. If they are claiming to be economic refugees then this problem is Calderon's!!!

Moisheh

Marlene

Jul 22, 2009, 8:15 PM

Post #20 of 38 (8859 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Calling all Canadians...

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According to various sources I have read, the refugee claims for 2008 were between 9,000 and 10,000 (not 3,000) And that has already increased by 50% for the first half of 2009. It's a very serious problem for Canada.

gpkgto

Jul 23, 2009, 6:31 AM

Post #21 of 38 (8829 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Calling all Canadians...

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Canada is the most civilized country on earth and Canadians are the nicest, fairest people I have ever known. That is not the issue. The problem is with Canada's asylum law not with the people who are apparently following that law. If the law is being abused, change THAT law. Do not add to Mexico's burdens in the world.

Moisheh

Jul 23, 2009, 11:33 AM

Post #22 of 38 (8787 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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gpkisner:

I do not understand your post. Are you saying that Canada's law re refugees is too strict? Would you want Canada to just allow anyone to enter the country with no visa?? Canada has done nothing to add to Mexico's burden. It is up to the Government of Mexico to provide an economy for the people. I see your logic as very twisted.

gpkgto

Jul 23, 2009, 11:45 AM

Post #23 of 38 (8782 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Calling all Canadians...

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I think my post is perfectly clear: Canada has an asylum law that has proven to be flawed. To put a burden on Mexicans--who have only followed that law as written--is unfair to Mexicans. The correct answer, IMHO, is to revise the law however Canada pleases to make it harder to get asylum. This would not affect Mexican tourists--just the ones who want to "abuse" Canadian hospitality. Mexicans are a big component of Canadian tourism--the papers here are full of skiing ads and study English in Canada ads. I read that Mexicans make up the 3rd largest group of tourists to Toronto. Canada has p.o.'ed hundreds of Mexicans, but apparently it doesn't care.

I gotr this email from a Canadian friend last week (she is married to a Mexican and they have 2 bi-national children):

"Did you hear that the Canadian govenment decided that Mexicans now need visas to come here? And they gave them TWO DAYS notice!!! I am so ashamed of being a Canadian. I hope they let me back in to Mexico."

arbon

Jul 23, 2009, 1:26 PM

Post #24 of 38 (8767 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Calling all Canadians...

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Czechoslovakians, Mexicans and others enter Canada as "tourists" and then apply for asylum, sometimes by the plane load and sometimes by the bus load.

It also used to be possible for Mexicans to enter Canada as tourists and then apply for immigration, but now that has to be done out of Country.

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(This post was edited by arbon on Jul 23, 2009, 1:38 PM)

gpkgto

Jul 23, 2009, 5:28 PM

Post #25 of 38 (8729 views)

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Re: [arbon] Calling all Canadians...

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I understand Canada's concerns, but why is it fair the punish all Mexicans (with the hassel, expense and embarrassment of applying for a visa with no guarantee of receiving one)? Most Mexicans (I would say the VAST majority)--now and in the past--have entered Canada with valid intentions. And as I have said, even those who applied for asylum were doing so in accordance with Canadian law--written and passed by the Canadian legisalture.

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