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Brian

Jul 8, 2009, 4:51 AM

Post #1 of 19 (4625 views)

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"We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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Food for thought for those who insist that one will not become a victim unless involved with drugs. These mens' only involvement was to decry the wave of kidnapping and encourage victims' families not to pay ransoms. They were made an example for others to see. They followed Mexican law by not bearing arms to defend themselves. They depended upon the government to do so.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6518521.html

(This post was edited by Brian on Jul 8, 2009, 5:57 AM)

richmx2

Jul 8, 2009, 1:19 PM

Post #2 of 19 (4529 views)

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Re: [Brian] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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This may have had less to do with narcotics than with the LeBaron Family -- the Hatfields and McCoys of northern Mexico and the southwest U.S.

BTW, Jason Dormandy, a professor of Latin American history (specifically Mexican history) at Stephen A. Austin State University in Texas, and is quite an expert on Chihuahua Mormons makes two points. First, The LeBaron community is to Mormonism as Santa Muerte is to Roman Catholicism. Second, the LeBaron community and its neighbors (who include a number of marijuana growers and distributers) have had "issues" for years.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by richmx2 on Jul 8, 2009, 1:24 PM)

Brian

Jul 8, 2009, 2:15 PM

Post #3 of 19 (4513 views)

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Re: [richmx2] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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It they were growing dope and either competing with the cartels or refusing to pay extortion demands then they unfortunately got what they deserved. As I understand it, from Mexican papers, the family initially sought help from the ministerio publico and were stonewalled. Only after they lead a march on the capital demanding an end to impunity was the young man released by the kidnappers/police. It is very unusual for those involved in criminal activities to seek help from the authorities when victimized by other criminals. Likewise, this is the first time that I ,with a law enforcement background , have seen a case of dope growers not arming themselves to protect their crop if not their personal safety. I found the article you provided very interesting as are most intrigues involving religious cults. Right now the Mexican press is describing these men as martyrs. That will certainly change (as it should) if the government can tie them into drug dealing as your last sentence seems to imply. Vamos a ver.....

(This post was edited by Brian on Jul 8, 2009, 3:20 PM)

richmx2

Jul 8, 2009, 7:23 PM

Post #4 of 19 (4434 views)

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Re: [Brian] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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If this is even about narcotics smuggling, and not about something like, say, water rights (and even marijuana farmers need water) which leads to violent confrontations all the time in rural Mexico. Or cultural differences... or the bizarre feuds within the LeBaron family. My point is that one can't just assuming any hinkey act in Mexico involves "drug cartels".

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Brian

Jul 11, 2009, 7:29 AM

Post #5 of 19 (4273 views)

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Re: [richmx2] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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The state government is considering a novel but questionable way to deal with the Mormon community's concern about safety. It intends to provide weapons to community volunteers so that they can police themselves. First, the concerns about the history of the cult don't seem to be an impediment and, second, it is a frank admission that the government of Chihuahua at least is unable to provide for the safety of its people. The implications of this are huge. How long before fed-up Mexicans begin demanding the same indulgence? Government sanctioned vigilantism might be the future.....

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/611536.html

(This post was edited by Brian on Jul 11, 2009, 7:31 AM)

Rolly

Jul 11, 2009, 8:14 AM

Post #6 of 19 (4255 views)

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Re: [Brian] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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The idea of armed residents protecting themselves is not a new idea in Chihuahua. In fact it is part of the history of the state. Many of the early settlers were given land grants in return for their promise to help rid the area of indians.

Looks like the only thing that has changed is the name of the enemies.

There have been reports of vigilante groups operating in my area.

Rolly Pirate

chinagringo

Jul 11, 2009, 8:19 AM

Post #7 of 19 (4250 views)

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Re: [Rolly] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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Back in January, news out of Juarez included:
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_11466731

Since that announcement, the Government has moved in 5000++ troops into Juarez and have not read anything further on this particular effort.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

richmx2

Jul 11, 2009, 1:42 PM

Post #8 of 19 (4192 views)

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Re: [Rolly] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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Maybe they need to call in the Magnificent Seven? If you think about it, who are the white guys in Le Baron's neighbors anyway? Add in that the same family (Creel-Terrazas) has been running the state since the 19th century, and -- yeah -- this sounds like Chihuahua is marching boldly into the 19th century.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Georgia

Jul 12, 2009, 3:43 PM

Post #9 of 19 (4066 views)

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Re: [Brian] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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Mexican law permits the possession of firearms in one's home to protect oneself and one's property. I am referring to "long" guns, not concealed weapons.

jennifer rose

Jul 12, 2009, 3:49 PM

Post #10 of 19 (4054 views)

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Re: [Georgia] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug war "

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Actually, anything up to the size of a .38 special can legally be registered and kept in the home.

http://staringatstrangers.typepad.com/...-guns-and-money.html

Georgia

Jul 12, 2009, 3:58 PM

Post #11 of 19 (4053 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Around here it seems like it's easier to get permission for a rifle or shotgun. The latter is my weapon of choice for home protection.

Brian

Jul 12, 2009, 4:51 PM

Post #12 of 19 (4036 views)

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Re: [Georgia] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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"Around here it seems like it's easier to get permission for a rifle or shotgun. The latter is my weapon of choice for home protection."

They might as well issue the Mormons a supply of pea shooters. They would be equally effective against cuernos de chivo (AK-47) which are the cartels' weapon of choice. This idea is ill-considered and will only offer a false sense of security to the community.

Georgia

Jul 12, 2009, 6:19 PM

Post #13 of 19 (4018 views)

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Re: [Brian] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Whether they were involved in drugs (not good for your personal safety) or fighting the drug lords, they put themselves "out there" ... just not a good idea against a force that is ready, willing and able to take on the army, compromise US immigration officers, etc. etc. They thought they would get a medal?

In terms of personal, at-home safety - where you are unlikely to be attacked with fragmentation grenades, AK-47s or rigged C4 - we've always preferred something that doesn't require terribly straight shooting in a moment of surprise. Shotguns seem to do the trick. Although, a lady we knew had a large caliber handgun in her home and when she found an intruder in her garage, which was all concrete, she fired a warning shot, which almost destroyed his hearing in the confined space of the garage. He begged her to call the police to come and rescue him. He made the call while she held him at gunpoint. The police rescued him. He was happy to see them.

richmx2

Jul 12, 2009, 6:50 PM

Post #14 of 19 (4013 views)

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Re: [Georgia] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Uh... all that's fine and dandy, but are you saying the Mennonites (who also feel threatened) must eschew their religious beliefs (as protected in Article I of the Mexican constitution)? And, if the armed Mormons (who aren't technically Mormons) are then felt to be a threat to their Tarahumara neighbors, do we arm them too?

Sounds like a recipe for turning Mexico into... I donno... Texas.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

esperanza

Jul 12, 2009, 7:28 PM

Post #15 of 19 (3989 views)

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Re: [Georgia] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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In Reply To

In terms of personal, at-home safety - where you are unlikely to be attacked with fragmentation grenades, AK-47s or rigged C4 -

Have you read the news out of Morelia this week, speaking of being attacked at home with the AK-47?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Georgia

Jul 12, 2009, 8:57 PM

Post #16 of 19 (3968 views)

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Re: [esperanza] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Well, no, but I did read about the attorney at a very nice hospital in guadalajara who was gunned to death in his room: but he was "involved" shall we say.

esperanza

Jul 12, 2009, 9:19 PM

Post #17 of 19 (3956 views)

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Re: [Georgia] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Here you go...this happened on Thursday, July 9. It was just one of many incidents all over Michoacán, including Morelia, Pátzcuaro, Apatzingán, etc. Etc. And etc.

http://www.quadratin.com.mx/noticias/nota,52351/

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 12, 2009, 9:21 PM)

Georgia

Jul 13, 2009, 7:28 AM

Post #18 of 19 (3911 views)

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Re: [esperanza] "We have never done anything against the drug lords. We stay away from the drug

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Sounds like the projects in Detroit - with the exception of the grenades. Yes, I read this story as well. Large firefight between two gangs, innocents caught in the middle. I don't mean to minimize this, but this seems to be the human condition in many countries these days, not just Mexico. In the US so many uninvolved bystanders are caught in the crossfire. We are not exempt no matter where we live, but we do minimize our chances by not dealing drugs, double crossing drug dealers, or getting in their way. In many respects I think they are doing a public service by killing one another. It is a cynical view, but then, I have reason to be cynical about personal safety.

sciman

Jul 14, 2009, 7:11 PM

Post #19 of 19 (3775 views)

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CNN does a tally

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Twelve bodies of federal officers found at an off-duty location -- 32 deaths in the past few days. La Familia was unhappy that Rubido was being held. Ciudad Juarez hit 1000 already this year when there were only 596 by this point in the year last year. They don't say much about the Chihuhua mayor shot Tuesday morning, or cover the spate of recent slayings in Rosarito, outside TJ amongst a pretty good size of baja expats.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/14/mexico.violence/