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raferguson

Jun 24, 2009, 9:20 PM

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Si Dios me permite......

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In English, you will sometimes hear, "Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise". This is usually associated with something in the future which is not a completely sure thing.

In Spanish, I have a tendency to say "Si Dios me permite", (Lord willing, or if God allows me). I am trying to figure out if this was correct usage. One song had a variation, "Si Dios me lo permite", If God permits it to me. Another variation, free of any direct or indirect objects, would be "Si Dios permite".

A variation would be "Si Dios quiere", If God wishes.

So what is correct usage? What do you usually hear?

I know that in Mexican Spanish, God is invoked more often than in US English. "Gracias a Dios" is a common phrase that I have incorporated into my Spanish.

This brings to mind my arriving in Santiago de Compostella, Spain, after walking 200 miles. I told a Spaniard in the Cathedral that "Estamos aqui, gracias a Dios", and I was corrected, "Gracias a Santiago". But that is another story....

I would be interested in any comments.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

esperanza

Jun 25, 2009, 5:39 AM

Post #2 of 12 (6762 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Si Dios me permite......

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The variations I've heard most during my many years of life in Mexico are: primeramente Dios (God's will first), si Dios quiere (if God wills), Dios mediante (God willing), con el favor de Dios (God willing), si Dios da licensia (God willing), and your version: si Dios permite.

I would say that of all those choices, con el favor de Dios and primerament Dios are the two I hear most, but people including me use all of them all the time.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

sergiogomez / Moderator

Jun 25, 2009, 11:16 PM

Post #3 of 12 (6742 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Si Dios me permite......

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My personal favorite: primero Dios. Dios mío, I'm glad I don't live in Spain. I can't imagine having to say gracias a Santiago all the time!

raferguson

Jun 26, 2009, 6:34 PM

Post #4 of 12 (6719 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Si Dios me permite......

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Thanks to both of you for your comments. I will have to listen for "Primero Dios", not sure that I have heard it. Not sure in what context one might choose that phrase rather than one of the others.

I think that usually people in Spain say "Gracias a Dios". The "Gracias a Santiago" was, I think, because we were on the Santiago pilgrimage, so therefore under Santiago's special protection. To me, it was a reminder how seriously people look to the saints for all kinds of help. Santiago is the patron saint of Spain.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Jun 28, 2009, 7:49 PM

Post #5 of 12 (6678 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Si Dios me permite......

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A friend of mine here in Xalapa always says "Ni mande Dios lo quiera" which is a combination of "Ni mande Dios" and " Si Dios lo quiera". He is a real "picaro" and would use it in a situation like...Va a señora caminado por la acera y esta a punto de caer en un hoyo, y alquien hace el comentario..."¡Se va a caer la señora!" y mi amigo le contesta "Ni mande Dios lo quiera" con la esperanza que se caiga la pobre dama. Es que él es malo, malo, malo.
I will give a free walking tour of downtown Xalapa to the first person who CORRECTLY translates/interprets what I just wrote above in Spanish.
¡Hechanle ganas! Orale, chamacos.
Another source of my mexican venacular(¿what?) "jerga mexicana" is BROZO, el payaso más tenebrosa on TELEVISA Canal 2 at 12PM on Fridays. Does anybody else out there watch this program? "¡Ni mande Dios lo quiera!"
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

jerezano

Jun 29, 2009, 10:29 AM

Post #6 of 12 (6657 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] Si Dios me permite......

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Hola Roy,

I would like a free walking tour of Xalapa very much so here goes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Ni mande Dios lo quiera" con la esperanza que se caiga la pobre dama. Es que él es malo, malo, malo.<<<<<<

I would have said, "¡Ojalá que ni mande Dios lo que quiera!"
God grant(ojalá) that He(God) doesn't order what you want. But then I'm not really a Spanish speaker. Are there better translations out there?

jerezano.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Jun 29, 2009, 1:06 PM

Post #7 of 12 (6653 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] Si Dios me permite......

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Some things, like this, inevitably lose something in translation. I'm not sure if there's any one correct translation. At any rate, I would render it something like this:

Una señora va caminando por la acera y está a punto de caerse en un hoyo
A lady is walking down the sidewalk and is about to fall into a hole (dip, pothole)

y alguien hace el comentario, "Se va a caer la señora!"
and someone makes the comment, "The lady is going to fall!"

y mi amigo le contesta "Ni mande Dios lo quiera."
and my friend replies, "May God not grant...that she doesn't fall!"

con la esperanza de que se caiga la pobre dama. Es que él es malo, malo, malo.
with the hopes that the lady (really) will fall. He is very, very, very mean!

Ni mande Dios/Dios lo quiera. Clever. The trick is that the word Dios does double duty. The closest thing I could think of in English without getting hopelessly tangled up is a double negative.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Jun 29, 2009, 1:16 PM

Post #8 of 12 (6652 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Si Dios me permite......

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Primero Dios is just a shorter, easier to say version of primeramente Dios. Both expressions are interchangeable with any of the other "God willing" expressions in any situation.

Here's a YouTube link to a song that uses primero Dios. Songs heard on the radio: my favorite authority on popular Mexican phrases. It usually works.

Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1boBhv-JOY

Written lyrics

http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/grupo_bryndis_lyrics_4670/20_poemas_canciones_y_romances_lyrics_93792/mi_dulce_amor_lyrics_907324.html

morgaine7

Jun 29, 2009, 7:07 PM

Post #9 of 12 (6640 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Si Dios me permite......

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I hear ojalá quite a bit, in the sense of "hopefully", or "let's hope". Other than being less religious, is there a difference in meaning compared to the phrases mentioned above?

Kate

esperanza

Jun 29, 2009, 9:13 PM

Post #10 of 12 (6630 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Si Dios me permite......

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In Reply To

I hear ojalá quite a bit, in the sense of "hopefully", or "let's hope". Other than being less religious, is there a difference in meaning compared to the phrases mentioned above?

Kate

Ojalá is an interesting word, isn't it? In its language of origin (Arabic) it actually means...primeramente Dios. In Arabic, it's 'if Allah wills it'. So even though common Mexican usage has brought ojalá closer to wishing and/or hoping, it's pretty much the same as saying si Dios quiere or any of the other phrases we've talked about in this thread.

While we're on the subject of ojalá, remember that when it's followed by a verb, the verb is always in the subjunctive mood. "Ojalá que lleguen bien a su destino." "Ojalá que no llueva a la hora de la fiesta."

Ojalá que no se aburran con esta respuesta!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

morgaine7

Jun 29, 2009, 9:37 PM

Post #11 of 12 (6628 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Si Dios me permite......

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Ojalá que no se aburran con esta respuesta!

No way!! That's fascinating. I lived in Egypt for 25 years and heard insha'allah or masha'allah every day, yet didn't imagine the connection. Many thanks. Ojalá que pasen una buen' noche.

Kate

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Jun 29, 2009, 11:28 PM

Post #12 of 12 (6623 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Si Dios me permite......

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Sergio y compania:
Cheeeesh! It looks like you get a free walking tour of downtown Xalapa, too. Why don't I make it easy and just give a free tour to everybody, but it has to be on the same day at the same time. We'll just have a great big "pachanga" after wearing our feet off, with some good Salsa or Danzon music, or maybe there will be a Fandango at the Patio Muñoz down the street. Once again, the booze and vitals are on your tabs! I can guarantee you will love the Veracruzano food and hospitality.
¡Hasta pronto, amigos!

BTW, the nearest translation/interpretation for me of what my friend is saying or implying would be of "¡Ni mande Dios lo quiera!" is "God forbid it should...He(God) wants it to happen!" It is something my own warped sense of humor can pick up on.
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com