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Brian

Jul 13, 2009, 6:06 AM

Post #26 of 35 (7622 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Recommendations?

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esperanza

As a fellow ex-tijuanense, I can fully appreciate your perceptions and gut level disappointment and, yes, fear about what is happening right now. It may get better at some time in the future, but the pollyannas out there don't know what they are really dealing with right now. I recently posted a message on a SMA message board and one of the replies to a concerned response was "don't worry, if it hadn't been posted on CivilSMA, no-one here would have known it happened". In response to several private emails, the moderator has now asked me not to post any further reports about crime in that city .


(This post was edited by Brian on Jul 13, 2009, 6:16 AM)


esperanza

Jul 13, 2009, 6:19 AM

Post #27 of 35 (7616 views)

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Re: [Brian] Recommendations?

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I think it's important to differentiate between 'fear for your personal safety' and fear of what's going on in Mexico today.

Thursday night, I felt fear for my personal safety. That fear was based on my inability to understand what it was I heard, where it was, and what I needed to do about whatever it was. Once I understood that the gun battle was not in my street, I was able to let go of that fear.

My fear is for Mexico. No politician, police head, or other official has been able to offer even a possible solution to the situation. Yesterday's La Voz de Michoacán quoted Michoacán's governor, Leonel Godoy, in saying that Michoarcán is in a state of high alert. Public events in Morelia's Centro Histórico were canceled on Saturday night due to violence during the week. My question, since September 15, 2008, is: how far will this go, and where will we find an answer?

I agree, Brian. You said, "The pollyannas out there don't know what they are really dealing with right now." It's not only the pollyannas, but also the newly arrived, the not-yet-here, the wannabes, and the let's-not-talk-about-it-everything's-fine ostriches with their heads in the sand.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Rolly


Jul 13, 2009, 9:15 AM

Post #28 of 35 (7589 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Recommendations?

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When Lerdo was under attack by the Zetas several months ago, I think the community felt it was "a period of chaos, mayhem, lawlessness, and terror." And, yes, life went on, but not the same as before. Stores closed early, soldiers patrolled the city. Night life crashed, restaurants failed for lack of business.

Things are better now that almost 3,000 army troops patrol the tri-city area. But we still have shoot outs and general lawlessness. Many policemen in the area have been arrested for drug gang activities, kidnapping, extortion, and other crimes. 303 policemen were arrested in Torreón recently, and half the force of another near by town were busted just last week.

Bottom line: "a period of chaos, mayhem, lawlessness, and terror" continues, but on a lesser scale.

Rolly Pirate


gpkgto

Jul 13, 2009, 11:34 AM

Post #29 of 35 (7560 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Recommendations?

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My life goes on as usual because Mexico is also my home and I have no choice.

There is still an element of risk management that tourists (and everyone) should consider: a person must factor in not only the odds of something happening, but the consequences should that thing happen.

Someone can just decide to play the "odds", e.g. subprime lenders, Air France, drivers holding an infant, a family of 4 on a bicycle in traffic witrhout helmets--that is a valid choice. Someone may also decide to consider the "consequences"--total economic meltdown, mid-ocean crash, injured baby, injured family--also valid choices.

This way, living life as usual in Mexico is a gamble (as it always is everywhere)--but because of my extended time here, I feel that I have a chance of avoiding problems. A tourist might not have that advantage.


judithnpups


Jul 13, 2009, 5:39 PM

Post #30 of 35 (7533 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Recommendations?

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While I don't really worry that I'll be caught in the crossfire, I an unnerved by the obvious inability of the government leaders to control the lawlessness that is gripping the city and the country.
Judith in the DF (formerly in Morelia)


Brian

Jul 13, 2009, 7:22 PM

Post #31 of 35 (7513 views)

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Re: [judithnpups] Recommendations?

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The possibility of "being caught in a crossfire" is really not as remote as it might seem on the surface. Many of the shootouts between the narcos and the authorities occur in populated neighborhoods albeit not gringo enclaves. The narcos set themselves up in casas de seguridad (safe houses) which by definition are supposed to be in areas which do not draw attention. More often than not, based upon news reports, locations near schools are favorite places. It is easy to suggest that people not frequent areas of known drug activity but primarias?


La Isla


Jul 13, 2009, 7:29 PM

Post #32 of 35 (7508 views)

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Re: [judithnpups] Recommendations?

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While I don't really worry that I'll be caught in the crossfire, I an unnerved by the obvious inability of the government leaders to control the lawlessness that is gripping the city and the country.


That's what bothers me too. As of now, Mexico City (at least my neighborhood and the areas I frequent) is safe from narcotraficante-related violence, but I fear it could spread here eventually if the government doesn't begin to get a grip on things ): .


judithnpups


Jul 13, 2009, 8:02 PM

Post #33 of 35 (7503 views)

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Re: [Brian] Recommendations?

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You're right, Brian. Getting mugged in a "bad" neighborhood by a crack-head at midnight is one thing. Smart people stay away from that kind of danger. But many of these attacks are occurring in the "best" neighborhoods (i.e. high priced areas) often in broad daylight. The rival drug king pins don't live in the slums. They've started shooting at each other in the nice neighborhoods.

We also worry that the recently-opened Oficina de la Secretaría de Seguridad Pública around the corner from our house could be a target. (Lots of young men with big guns and Kevlar vests hang around outside the office.) We think of it as the Secretaría de INSEGURIDAD. Scarier and scarier. Poor Mexico.
-
Judith in the DF (formerly in Morelia)


robrt8

Jul 13, 2009, 9:46 PM

Post #34 of 35 (7489 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Recommendations?

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It's not only the pollyannas, but also the newly arrived, the not-yet-here, the wannabes, and the let's-not-talk-about-it-everything's-fine ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Cristine, can you reference a post on this list that reflects what you're saying? Or are you referring to another group?


Oscar2

Jul 15, 2009, 12:59 PM

Post #35 of 35 (7420 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Recommendations?

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I’ve kind of backed off posting and just listened for awhile and what I’ve predominately heard for more time than not, unfortunately, is a whole lot of fear and concern about these fears. Honestly, if I were a newbie on this forum with aspirations of traveling to Mexico, “forget it” I’d either stay home or go someplace else not plagued with the around the clock tension of fear.


Fear, again, is a very powerful deterrent, which can stymie movement, and desires to venture out beyond ones comfort zone. So what does the current situation all mean? Well, not to diminish the state of alert violence, death, mayhem naturally produces just about anywhere but at least in the short term “hopefully” tourists lack of visiting Mexico will be short lived.

From what I’ve seen and heard thus far, the fear train is leading us directly into what many of us have dread for sometime, Mexico becoming a police state akin to the neighbors NOB. Is this a good or less than a good thing? Well, should tourism precipitously fall off causing the tourist industry dollars to be spent elsewhere, I’d imagine Mexico’s economy would continue to take a big hit.

With less expat, dollars/funds to continue elevating property values and more will this “eventually” deescalate Mexico’s property values in expat enclaves. Hypothetically, let’s go with this assumption and a scenario, should this happen, would this ongoing state of fear also cause such “collateral” (boy do I hate the word) damage, that eventually when the smoke of danger thins, or clears out, will this causality create a kick back to the days when it was “really” more affordable with an atmosphere more desirable for some to live in Mexico? Is this all a bad thing or is it a necessary evil to eventually bring about a better place to live…… as history has shown in other countries.

Again, not to diminish the current state of alarm, alert or step on sensitivities, but humans are extremely resilient. We have witnessed whole cities in other countries completed wiped out by the hundreds of thousands with the drop of a bomb and genocide wipe out millions. Yet look at the resiliency of the Japanese and the Jews. It’s my belief Mexico will survive and flourish as the human condition has dictated in our past. Please don’t call this Pollyannaish, let’s just call it what it is, the truth.

Mexico has always been close to my heart but it’s a living thing which like all living things, changes take place and that is a constant. I enjoy this forum and the people who make it come alive. Since we enjoy voicing opinions, this is just another dos centavos.
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