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belgique


Apr 13, 2009, 6:51 AM

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No Bells?

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Bride is a cradle Catholic and I'm converted so we're up on the general principles. The article on the main page was interesting on the Mexican version of Easter customs. Is there something in the bell ringing customs here that is different that is not mentioned?

The first part of Holy Week, the bells here in Cholula/Puebla rang like crazy all the time. Then, as it should be, they went silent on Thursday. But, they are still silent on this a Monday morning! We expected a wild cacophony of bells on Easter, but not one...even the call to Mass.

As an aside, something I've found amusing: bride says that the kids in Belgium (at least in her circle) were told that the Bells went to Rome to be blessed on Thur and returned full of candy and eggs on Easter. I guess that is no more implausible than a rabbit bring the eggs!



esperanza

Apr 13, 2009, 8:07 AM

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Re: [belgique] No Bells?

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During Semana Santa in Mexico, the norm is that no church bells ring after the last Mass on Holy Thursday until the middle of the Misa de la Resurreción (Easter Vigil Mass) on Sábado de Gloria. Of course there is no Mass celebrated anywhere in the world either on Good Friday or during the day on Holy Saturday. Communion may be taken on Good Friday, but that is outside the context of Mass and with consecrated hosts reserved from Holy Thursday. Between the last Holy Thursday Mass and the Mass of the Resurrection (Easter Vigil) on Saturday night, the tabernacle stands empty.

Here in Morelia, we've been hearing regular bells calling us to Mass since Easter Sunday morning. You'll want to inquire in Puebla to find out why you're not hearing those.

I love your wife's story of the Belgian bells!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









belgique


Apr 13, 2009, 11:04 AM

Post #3 of 10 (2514 views)

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Re: [esperanza] No Bells?

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Well, now they are ringing. Bride said they rang like crazy at midnight Sunday (I slept through it) but have been quiet until about noon.


johanson


Apr 13, 2009, 6:42 PM

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Re: [belgique] No Bells?

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U bent van België. Spreekt u het Nederlands of het Frans? Saldly my French sucks. But if you speak French, you will be able to learn Spanish very easily. My NL helped me to learn Hoch Bayerisch when I moved to Freie Stadt Bayern (Actually Oberammergau) many years ago, but it sure didn't help me to learn Spanish. Pero hablo mas o menos Esp. tambien.


belgique


Apr 13, 2009, 6:51 PM

Post #5 of 10 (2469 views)

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Re: [johanson] No Bells?

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Actually Johanson, the French is causing me troubles...I keep wanting to use a French word for a Spanish one! I'm viejo and its hard for me to remember all this stuff but we are trying...I refuse to ask if they speak English. Bride is fluent in Italian also so she can really get by.


johanson


Apr 13, 2009, 7:56 PM

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Re: [belgique] No Bells?

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I too, was in US military. I was transferred at a very young age from Fort Sill, Oklahoma to northern NL. Luckily I understood a little Swedish so learning Dutch wasn't that hard. Then after 13 months I was transferred to a ski resort in Oberammergau in the Bavarian Alps to teach at the US Army (NATO) School Europe. With some Swedish and Dutch it was easy to learn Bavarian German.

Now none of these languages helped me learn Spanish, but I remember when I was a young teenager how much disrespect I had for those foreigners who couldn't speak English when I ran across them in the US. This disrespect I had for them motivated me to learn Mexican Spanish when I moved to Jalisco, so that I would not be looked down upon by the local middle class Mexicans as are so many of us Gringos who do not speak Spanish even after 10, 20 or 30 years here in Mexico.

Do I speak Spanish well? Good God NO. But I try and that's what is important. Sadly too few of us try.


(This post was edited by johanson on Apr 13, 2009, 7:58 PM)


JohnnyBoy

Apr 14, 2009, 1:49 PM

Post #7 of 10 (2402 views)

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Re: [johanson] No Bells?

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I could not help myself from replying to this thread. Not about the bells, but about the languages.

However, on the topic of the bells, I have not heard bell one anywhere in Mexico, ever, whereas in Europe, everywhere I have lived, Switzerland, Germany, France, Italy...I often felt like the Hunchback of Notre Dame: "The Bells, The Bells, The Bells!"

I learned German and Italian almost simultaneously around age 19-20 living in Germany, German-speaking Switzerland, and Italy, and had studied German and French for five years in high school. I went on to study German at the post graduate level, and have been back to live in Italy for extended periods of time (1-2 years), so that my spoken Italian seemed better to me than my spoken German, at least more colloquial and sounded less "learned."

I have also studied Latin.

Spanish has been a booger for me and Italian has been more of an impediment than a help. And German of no use at all. What I remember of French helped more than Italian, except with vocabulary, where many words in Italian and Spanish are the same.

At first I said, screw it, I am just going to speak Italian and let them figure it out. But my Mexican partner nixed that idea in a big hurry. I did try it a few times, dilberately and sometimes just in desperation because the Spanish was not coming to me. About all I ever got was a blank stare. Might as well have been speaking Swahili. Mexicans, especially not-so-well-educated Mexicans, cannot make the jump from Italian to Spanish, or viceversa. I have also learned that if my Spanish is not spot-on they are not going to get it either. At first I thought they were giving me the French treatment, that if I could not speak Spanish better than THAT, they were not going to lower themselves to respond. I mean how hard is it to get from: "tortillas di farina, per favore" to "tortillas de harina, por favor."? I think they ought to get it, but they don't.

Next I found that people in Sonora are very hard to understand. My two doctors and my dentist, all educated and from the south, I understand as if they were speaking English or Italian. But nothing is helping me get used to the way ordinary people talk here.

I think knowing any other foreign language gives a person a leg up learning the next one, be it Spanish or whatever. I probably want/need to qualify that statement by saying, as long as they are all Indo-European languages. Asian languages are not much help.

Goethe, the German Shakespeare, and so much more, once said:

"Wer fremde Sprache nicht kennt, weiss nichts von seiner eigenen."

Which means: He who knows no foreign language, knows nothing of his own. I hate to haggle with Goethe (which is not the opposite of googling with Hegel) but I am not sure anymore if I agree with him.

At any rate, I agree with Johanson, that as guests in this country (Mexico) we need to try to speak and understand Spanish.


jerezano

Apr 15, 2009, 7:02 AM

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Re: [JohnnyBoy] No Bells?

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 Hello all,

Where in Mexico does JohnnyBoy live? I can't believe his statement:
>>However, on the topic of the bells, I have not heard bell one anywhere in Mexico, ever, whereas in Europe, everywhere I have lived, Switzerland, Germany, France, Italy...I often felt like the Hunchback of Notre Dame: "The Bells, The Bells, The Bells!

Everywhere I go in Mexico I hear bells. True there are some ranchos so small that they do not have a chapel, or if they do have a chapel it is only open of special days when a touring cura can be persuaded to drop by. But anywhere else, unless the noise of a large city drowns out the sound of the bells, the standard bell ringing for mass vespers, etc., and unfortunately the early 5:30 AM morning call to the six o'clock mass can be heard loud and clear

I like those bells, but what really sets me on edge is the boom of those early morning and late night rockets. Are we setting those off to tell God that we are still alive, or is it to get his all-knowing attention so we can tell him about our problems? I'm told that they are really to let him know that all is right with his world and that we are happy. Hah!

jerezano


(This post was edited by jerezano on Apr 15, 2009, 7:13 AM)


sioux4noff

Apr 15, 2009, 8:54 PM

Post #9 of 10 (2308 views)

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Re: [belgique] No Bells?

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Quote
We expected a wild cacophony of bells on Easter, but not one...even the call to Mass.

Perhaps they are seeking a No-bell prize.


belgique


Apr 16, 2009, 6:03 AM

Post #10 of 10 (2286 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] No Bells?

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In Reply To

Quote
We expected a wild cacophony of bells on Easter, but not one...even the call to Mass.

Perhaps they are seeking a No-bell prize.


Groan. And here we had an interesting thread going and now the Jeffe will probably close it :-)...but that was funny!
 
 
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