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Roger

Jun 17, 2002, 12:27 PM

Post #1 of 19 (15067 views)

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Roof Leaking

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I'm renting the villa for a year so of course the roof started leaking. Can anyone outline possible steps for repair? Its a rebar roof with a nicely curved brick interior and concrete and tiles on the top. I would like to be able to talk inteligently to my agent.<p>



Loco

Jun 17, 2002, 3:50 PM

Post #2 of 19 (15062 views)

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see the rebar?

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not sure why you said rebar roof<p>if it's a tile roof .... it's like any other roof (basically). you need to get up there and find where it's starting to fall apart. water can travel a long ways under the outside material. this is assuming a pitched roof. flat cement is probably easier and more obvious.


Roger Heath

Jun 18, 2002, 6:50 AM

Post #3 of 19 (15062 views)

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see the rebar?

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Thanks. I thought rebar was the local name.<p>The roof is constructed on a steel frame. Between i-beams is a brick arch. On top of the arches is cement to make it level. On top of that are tiles. It has a reasonably good pitch.<p>I take it if the tiles are fixed the roof is fixed?


Esteban

Jun 18, 2002, 9:03 AM

Post #4 of 19 (15061 views)

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Clarification needed

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What kind of "tiles" are you talking about? If you are talking about "ceramic floor type tile" you have one problem. If you are talking about clay "tejas", you have another problem. Please explain.


Loco

Jun 18, 2002, 10:18 AM

Post #5 of 19 (15062 views)

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see the rebar?

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Most likely not the tiles, though some could be broken. It's usually through-holes; chimney, vent pipes, antenna attachments or peaks/valleys between roofs. Could just need re-cementing or sealing if house has settled or just aged. Maybe just cleaning?<p>Agree with Esteban ... I'm not visualizing but it sounds like you have a real tile roof.<p>Anyway ... water travels and where you see it on your ceiling may not be the problem on the outside.


Roger

Jun 19, 2002, 6:04 AM

Post #6 of 19 (15061 views)

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Clarification needed

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They are clay tiles. I expect a few are cracked or out of place, but most seem in good shape. We put in a new skylight last year.<p>


Esteban

Jun 19, 2002, 12:36 PM

Post #7 of 19 (15061 views)

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Clarification needed

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Clay tiles, if you are talking about the u-shaped "tejas" are not considered waterproof by modern building standards. To make the roof water proof, the correct way is to take all the tiles off, and proceed to make the roof underneath waterproof. If you have a concrete roof underneath, you may have to do the following, depending on the condition of the roof:
add another thin coat of concrete with adhesives, paint with impereable paint, lay down a cloth like material with two more coats of impermeable paint and maybe even another coat of the cloth like material and more impereable paint. There are variations on this theme but most are similar. Basically, you have to make the roof totally waterproof BEFORE you put on the final ceramic tile which are basically there for looks.


Dutch

Jun 19, 2002, 8:25 PM

Post #8 of 19 (15062 views)

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Clarification needed

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: Clay tiles, if you are talking about the u-shaped "tejas" are not considered waterproof by modern building standards. To make the roof water proof, the correct way is to take all the tiles off, and proceed to make the roof underneath waterproof. If you have a concrete roof underneath, you may have to do the following, depending on the condition of the roof:
: add another thin coat of concrete with adhesives, paint with impereable paint, lay down a cloth like material with two more coats of impermeable paint and maybe even another coat of the cloth like material and more impereable paint. There are variations on this theme but most are similar. Basically, you have to make the roof totally waterproof BEFORE you put on the final ceramic tile which are basically there for looks.<p>=================================================
Esteban's recommendation is the classic way to repair a boveda or similarly-constructed roof. No one has raised the issue of cost. It's generally the case in Mexico that once a tenant accepts a house for rental, any upkeep or repairs is "his" responsibility. Since you say you only have a one year lease, is it cost-effective for you to do a major repair? If not, perhaps just taking the tiles off, looking for cracks (ANY crack, even hairline, will leak), and then just sealing them with the paint/cloth/paint technique will get you through with minimal expense. Use the cloth, as it will bridge the crack - if you don't, the crack will open right back up. You at least stand a chance with the cloth. Good Luck!


Loco

Jun 19, 2002, 9:04 PM

Post #9 of 19 (15062 views)

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sounds like over kill

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but i guess you have to have been there<p>I did a cement tile roof on my brothers house and can't believe this was any better than a tejas roof. On a low pitch, all we had was plywood and "tar" paper under the tiles. <p>Are you saying these tiles absorb so much water they pass it right to the roof below no matter how well they are constructed?<p>He did say they put in a skylight last year and thats where I would start looking if it's on the same side as the leak.<p>hmmmm


roofer

Jun 19, 2002, 9:26 PM

Post #10 of 19 (15061 views)

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the trick...

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put a small garden sprinkler on the downhill 3 feet or so of the roof and let it run while you go get the beer. if there is water in the house when you come back, its in that area . let it dry and wet a smaller area. its never in the first place. always work uphill, let dry in between tets areas. get the idea? takes a few trys, hence the beer.<p>


Esteban

Jun 20, 2002, 9:17 AM

Post #11 of 19 (15061 views)

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sounds like over kill

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Actually, vitrified clay tejas are not impermeable to water. Neither is concrete. On your plywood, concrete, tile roof, it's the tar paper that actually makes the roof watertight. That's why code in the US, when you use shakes, concrete tiles or any other such material is to put down at least 3 layers of tar paper over the wood roof sheathing. Any of the aforementioned roof applications will leak without the tarpaper. The wind blows the rain into places you wouldn't believe possible plus with the physics of capilary action water gets through where it doesn't seem possible. The effects of not having a good roof are responsible for a very high percentage of problems in homes that I have looked at in Mexico. The maestros I know have also verified this assumption.


Loco

Jun 21, 2002, 4:31 PM

Post #12 of 19 (15061 views)

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If a palapa works

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then it seems a solid cement roof with well layed tiles would be more than enough.


Esteban

Jun 22, 2002, 1:02 PM

Post #13 of 19 (15063 views)

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From dirt floor mud huts to solid marble mansions, they all work.

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There are a million levels of acceptability and tolerances for quality and liveability. What works in one climate may not work in another. Cost will also be a factor. The reason for owning a home is another factor. Put it all together and a palapa roof may or may not suffice as with any other roof style. There are many down sides to palapa style roofing including having to endure through hurricanes, harboring animals and insects and in some places, the cost. No roof is perfect as the elements take their toll over the years. So we are back to personal preference, goals, desires and a myriad of other choices that have to be taken into account when designing a roof, a building or an interior landscape. It's not even close to a perfect science.


Roger Heath

Jun 26, 2002, 2:58 PM

Post #14 of 19 (15066 views)

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sounds like over kill

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Hi
This is what my agent tells me about the roof. I still like Estaban's idea of tar paper, but do I also need the roof tile. Won't it crack like anything else that is concrete or clay? What do people recomend I place between the concrete and the tile?<p>My agent says
I have been talking to several people who knows how repair roofs and they said that tar paper is normally for wooden roof, is better to do it the right way.
1.- remove of theclay tiles(tejas) on top of the roof, then repair all the cracks with concrete and then put several coats of concrete than install the normal roof tile, which is similar to floor tile and then put like two coats of impermeable paint then on top of that put back replacing all the broken clay tiles (tejas).

The contractor went back to recheck the roof of your house and make sure that it has roof tile, and your DOES NOT HAVE ROOF TILE .
I think that if you are going to spend money reparing the roof is better to do it all, forget about problems with the roof for many years.
the contractor was going to give me the price yesterday and the estimate is not ready yet so he assure me that by tomarrow will be ready, I'll let you know,


Esteban

Jun 26, 2002, 8:07 PM

Post #15 of 19 (15061 views)

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sounds like over kill

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I don't quite understand, still, what you have. If you have tejas, then you can remove the tejas, put a coat of cement down then put a type of cloth material over the cement using impereable paint. Then more impereable paint. The cloth will stop the water from entering thorugh the cracks in the cement coat. The cracks WILL develop. It's the nature of the material. Then, you can do whatever you want on top of that. You can put tejas back on, you can tile it like a tile floor, you can put a composite stuff that looks like tejas and comes in sheets. Or, you can do nothing and it will do just fine. In some places, where the amount of rain is a problem, you can put another layer of the "cloth" down with more impereable paint for added protection.


Roger Heath

Jun 28, 2002, 4:33 AM

Post #16 of 19 (15061 views)

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sounds like over kill

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Is there a common name for "a type of cloth material"?


Clapton

Jun 28, 2002, 5:56 AM

Post #17 of 19 (15062 views)

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sounds like over kill

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In English the name is "polyester reinforcing fabric" and en español the cloth is "malla de poliester flexible". Basically it is woven cloth membrane that remains flexible so it won't crack. It is laid down between coats of acrilic "impermeabilizante". <p>The roof tiles you mention sound to me like something here on the Jalisco coast called "tecatas" as opposed to "tejas", the U-shaped Spanish roof tiles. These are unglazed, square clay tiles that are used for tiling roofs amongst other things. They are made in the same manner and of the same clay as the red clay "ladrillos".<p> On flat roofs they are laid much like floor tiles but usually get a thin slurry of cement (not concrete) that supposedly seals them. On sloped roofs they are sometimes overlapped like shingles and then covered again with a slurried cement topcoat. The cement can include additives for better waterproofing and adhesion.<p>
: Is there a common name for "a type of cloth material"?<p>


Roger Heath

Jul 2, 2002, 5:15 PM

Post #18 of 19 (15061 views)

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sounds like over kill

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Hi again.<p>My roof is slopedand is a simple V shape covering about 2200 square feet. The quote for the polyester repair and all kinds of slurrys is $32K pesos. I'm at Lake Chapala. Is this a fair price?<p>


Esteban

Jul 2, 2002, 7:14 PM

Post #19 of 19 (15062 views)

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sounds like over kill

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No one can know if it's fair or not without know the details. What exactly are they going to do? How many layers of what materials. You can price the polyester, you can price the impermeable paint (there are many grades) How much time will it take. Need more info as to what they are doing to make any guess at whether it's fair or not.
 
 
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