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Brian

Dec 1, 2008, 7:06 AM

Post #1 of 15 (3330 views)

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America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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As many know, two interesting things have been recently reported in the
press about America's complicity in the Mexican drug war crisis. U.S.
Ambassador Garza publicly went on record admitting it's fault and denouncing Americans' desire
for the consumption of drugs. Additionally, there was a report that Houston,
Texas, (with its liberal gun laws) is the leading supplier of weapons
to the cartels.

Yesterday, a large demonstration protesting the insecurity was held in Rosarito Beach, Baja
California, which is heavily populated by American expats. It is also
an area heavily dependent upon tourism for its economy.

I think it will be interesting to watch this situation. Mexicans have
been historically passive and willing to keep silent about things over
which they have no control The author of the following blog perceives
that public blaming of America for Mexico's problem of violence in its
society is beginning to surface. Some people will start acting out in an
expression of their anger, I am sure.

http://marjorieanndrake.blogspot.com/

(This post was edited by Brian on Dec 1, 2008, 7:11 AM)

jreboll

Dec 1, 2008, 7:35 AM

Post #2 of 15 (3316 views)

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Re: [Brian] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Recently there was a cache of weapons found in Reynosa, Tamps. There were hundreds of weapons of all types and thousands of rounds of ammo.
Why didn't the ATF offer to go in there and investigate mfg origin and who these arms were sold to. The middle men always seem to go undetected.

Brian

Dec 1, 2008, 8:10 AM

Post #3 of 15 (3306 views)

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Re: [jreboll] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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ATF doesn't have police powers in Mexico. The history of cooperation between the two entities has not been a good one. The D.E.A. is similarly a basically unwanted agency operating in Mexico. There are strong powers pitted against each other and the little guy ends up the loser.

BajaGringo

Dec 1, 2008, 10:48 AM

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Re: [Brian] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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I read a report recently that that many of the high caliber/sophisticated weapons confiscated from the cartels in Mexico have been traced back to the US military. The report speculated that they are being sold by soldiers wanting to make some money on the side. Who knows what the real truth is? I doubt we will ever know or fully understand the complicity of government in the problem or how much they really want to win this "war on drugs"

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

Oscar2

Dec 1, 2008, 2:45 PM

Post #5 of 15 (3240 views)

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Re: [BajaGringo] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Quote

Who knows what the real truth is? I doubt we will ever know or fully understand the complicity of government in the problem or how much they really want to win this "war on drugs"

Can the war on drugs ever be won? On the other hand, is it a well-designed myth, or perhaps fraudulent posturing to align the pockets of those gainfully employed or in someway, profiteering on human cravings?

Sentiments, notions, opinions and more are all over the board, but what follows is an article from a former US police chief that in many ways resonates in ways that feeds the hunger for change and resolution, now more than ever.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/...06_sunstamper04.html

cauny

Dec 2, 2008, 3:42 PM

Post #6 of 15 (3147 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Strikes me as a series of Venn diagrams from a veerrry distant (in memory) class in logic and statistics:

1. The drugs are grown and manufactured in South America (read "Columbia").
2. The drugs are (for the most part) consumed by vacuous citizens of the EEUU.
3. Mexico, by fault of geography, happens to be between 1. and 2.

Ergo the transhipment express passes through the entirity of Mexico. Given that the clowns in the USA are willing to pay silly sums for access to these illegal substances, it follows that there's an immeasurable pile of money to be split among 1. 2. and 3. That money has (understandably) corrupted a gazillion people (including underpaid law officers...in both Mexicoand the EEUU...governmental types willing to preach but not practice...and, perhasps most importantly, serial mpresidents and members of congress in the USA who have - seemingly since I was born- waged an impotent "war on drugs" to satisfy the American voting lemmings that "the problem is being seriosly addressed".

Is America to blame for Mexico's violence? Not exclusively, but most significantly. Does "America" really care?
NIMBY!

wendy devlin

Dec 2, 2008, 8:11 PM

Post #7 of 15 (3104 views)

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Re: [Brian] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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NIMBY...might be a particular salient point, revelant to this discussion.

Several Mexicans of my friend/acquaintence have been acutely aware of the growing flow/manufacture/growing of illegal drugs in their country in recent years.

They tended at first, for some years, to blame the appetite for 'drugs' al Otro Lado for the 'problem'.
(Big 'overdue' discussion on that subject, however circumstances, being as they are constantly politically/socially changing) fast forward to December 2008.

In the 'past' drug abuse in Mexico(at least according to my friends/family in the country) was largely viewed as 'sinfull' yes, but to be forgiven, especially when alcohol, was concerned, if viewed more a 'binge' phenomena, rather than chronic alcoholism.

In other words, one drank too much, took too much marijuana, or other substances and did, harm first to oneself, then perhaps, friends/family or society in general, which, with God's help, family support, a stint in rehab, short term jail, long-term penitentiary(all remedios(at last report)nothing necessarily much what might be expected, culturally NOB)

However, said family/friends are now reporting a 'change'. Before many people managed to 'binge' alcohol, marijuana, other drugs, and then manage to kick said addiction for days, months, years...............by whatever means.

Now. More people are getting 'hooked'. Meth, cocaine, heroine etc. which just a few years ago, were not such a strong presence in said same, small communities. They can't get off...family networks fried, government programs meagre and underfunded, little prevention, poverty..'recruitment' efforts, cultural cues and rewards in music, 'machismo culture etc.

Am by no means, no expert on this subject, or any other subject. However, what is happening now, is well-rooted in past influences and situations. NOB/SOB

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Dec 2, 2008, 8:21 PM)

BajaGringo

Dec 3, 2008, 8:16 AM

Post #8 of 15 (3060 views)

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I agree that Mexico is now beginning to see the signs of a problem with drug addiction in the large cities and border areas. It was a price that inevitably had to be paid for becoming a route of transport to the original market - USA.

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

Oscar2

Dec 3, 2008, 10:53 AM

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Re: [cauny] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Sensitivities, mores, objections, welcomed relief and much more rap around this strangled subject so tight its hard to breath a sigh of relief because society is being choked to death by profiteers of this so called “Drug War.”

69 billion dollars in US law enforcement “annually” is unimaginable much less to expect kingpins to sway their heads away and toward any kind of reform. SoB a life or many lives against a backdrop of tremendous profiteering, will make lobbing heads off an assembly line, by routinely defending territories and protecting higher profit margins.

As I understand it, a human contract to take someone out, in some arenas in the US is less then 10 grand. Can you imagine the turmoil and mayhem 1 billion dollars of that 69 billion would generate SoB? Is it even possible to pull the plug out from under them by legalizing it to a nickel a pop and let it roll for a few years to see what the difference maybe further down the line.

They can always go back to lobbing off heads if the empty vacuum of profit margins, again, compels questionable rhetoric to bring back the good ol’days… And even if the Americans did care, “how far” will we have to fight this war seemingly in futility, until we realize historically that resistance only breeds even more of the same.

Should it be legalized with the development of other social and medical measures? I too foresee a percentage increase of drug usage in the short term but through education and clear views, which breed awareness; this too may change through developed public consciousness, hopefully in our lifetime. At a nickel a pop, a cheap escape will eventually be realized as “a trap” and hardly worth the destruction that most will suffer and get to know in real-time.

There will be drug abuse, casualties and more but it will be at their own peril and choice. The universe must and will be their guides. Conscious awareness can bring clarity. Not everyone will realize this but since when has the human condition, ever been homogenous. Gaffing a popular term used way to often for my taste, is “Collateral Damage,” which we’ve grown to know to well. Yes, CD will fall on both sides of the drug war and legalization.

IMO, it doesn’t take a mental giant to see 5 future years times 69 billion equaling approx. 350 billion dollars or even just a small portion of that toward pulling the illegal plug and applying these very needy funds toward education, public awareness and outpatient medical treatment for those bent on self-destruction.

Public consciousness eventually will reduce “forced” criminalization, more and more jails and more taxpayer hardships and much, much more with recognized and familiar acceptance of it. If you value your life, especially when regulated drugs are sold for a nickel or so a pop at your local pharmacy, do so but do it at your own peril. Let your conscience, if any, be your guide... y buena suerte…… Dos Centavos

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Dec 3, 2008, 11:19 AM)

nancyinpdx

Dec 6, 2008, 7:26 PM

Post #10 of 15 (2924 views)

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Re: [BajaGringo] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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A small bag or 'globo' of meth can be bought for only 50-100 pesos in Tijuana and abuse there is VERY high among tourists as well as locals. Yes, I believe U.S. appetite for this and other drugs caused this problem. nancy

Gayla

Dec 8, 2008, 10:45 AM

Post #11 of 15 (2828 views)

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Re: [Brian] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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There was an interesting blurb in the media that flew under the radar about a week to 10 days ago that specifically addressed this issue.

The Brookings Institute, a think tank in Washington D.C., reported their findings after studying the U.S. "war on drugs". There were 2 primary points.

1) The consumption of illegal drugs in the U.S. has remained unchanged over the last 10 years. It has neither increased nor decreased. Yet the U.S. has spent billions of dollars waging a war on drugs in foreign countries.

2) The report was scathing in it's assessment of the drug policy and Bush administration in it's inabilty or unwillingness to understand, comprehend or acknowledge the role the U.S. plays in the global drug trade through it's seemingly insatiable consumption.

The report was none to complimentary about the U.S. expectation that Latin American countries deal with or eradicate growers and cartels in their respective countries while doing little to nothing on the home front.

I found this intersting on so many levels. First, that it was reported in the press at all. Second, that it came out of Washington D.C. Third, that it's addressing the issue at the root rather than the leaf. Fourth, that the research chose to take an internal look rather than simply an external one. I have no idea if the Brookings Institute is a conservative, middle of the road, or liberal think tank, though I tend to think it's on the conservative side. If it does, indeed, lean towards the more conservative then the report is all the more extraordinary in that it's yet another indictment of failed policy.

This is probably the third or fourth I've seen in the press over the last couple of months that has raised the issue of internal consumption with regard to the drug cartels and violence. It remains to be seen if this sentiment will gather speed or not, particularly with a new administration in Washington, it does, however, seem to indicate a shift in thinking about the issue.

jl1

Dec 8, 2008, 10:35 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2765 views)

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Re: [Gayla] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Interesting thoughts. The Brookings is quite conservative, by the way.

raferguson

Dec 9, 2008, 8:53 AM

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Re: [jl1] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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The phrase "Brookings Institution" is usually written the "liberal Brookings Institution". The Brookings institution is sometimes considered a center-left organization, but of course what you call it depends on where you stand politically.

There are conservative think tanks that are usually contrasted with the relatively liberal Brookings Institution, such as the American Enterprise Institute or the Heritage Foundation.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

BajaGringo

Dec 9, 2008, 9:14 AM

Post #14 of 15 (2723 views)

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Re: [raferguson] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Whether they be left/right leaning, I think that their conclusions are right on. The facts of this failed (and very expensive) war on drugs speak for themselves, not needing any political bias or slant...

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

smokesilver

Dec 9, 2008, 7:55 PM

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Re: [BajaGringo] America to blame for Mexico's violence?

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Indeed, the"Partnership for a Drug Free America" is a front, and 100% supported by the big pharma industry.