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Oscar2

Oct 1, 2008, 11:34 AM

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Amor y romanticismo 3

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At about 3:30 pm yesterday I stopped at a restaurant for a late lunch-dinner. Due to timing, the place was relatively empty. A heavyset Mexican waiter carried himself as if he’d been working there for quite some time. For some reason or another, due in part to few opportunities to speak to someone in Spanish NoB, and also timing and situations don’t always allow for a meaningful and/or extensive conversation - I ceased the moment and what followed was surprising, due in part to the current exercise we/I’ve been experiencing here on MC recently.

Somehow, due to the interest in translating and giving more meaning to the “essence” of what is said in Spanish, personally I found myself probing, like mixing and matching for the most effective way of not only saying it in English but in the process my Spanish has picked-up a notch or two. And yes, I found myself speaking to this waiter, born in Mexico City, with more clarity and yes, the words were streaming effectively to the point where his eyes said he was indeed impressed and enjoying the conversation.

It was a small reward but in someway the old adage clicks its heels it says, you get back what you put into it. So, muchas gracias. I realize I have a long way to go, more so in Spanish but also English, which can also be a great challenge creatively.

As Olivia has said, a thread can get to long and interest can be lost so I’ve followed her lead and started another thread which will hopefully make it easier to follow. Guevedo, Jerezano, Esperanza, Georgia and a few others are always good to go.

These are the first of several flirtatious remarks, which will follow:

"Si por cada vez que dijera te quiero una estrella se apagara no habría en el firmamento estrella que brillara"

"Te quiero y no te quiero son dos frases iguales: te quiero para mi y no te quiero para nadie"

Anyone?

Georgia

Oct 1, 2008, 2:13 PM

Post #2 of 24 (6674 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 3

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First one:
If everytime I were to tell you how much I loved a star were to disappear, there would be no stars left in the sky.

Georgia

Oct 1, 2008, 2:17 PM

Post #3 of 24 (6673 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 3

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Now here is a horrible piropo that left me laughing hysterically on the streets of Madrid when I was 19 (I think I may have shared this before, but I'll re-share it anyway):

Ay, senorita, eres tan bella que me haces encender las cerillas en el bolsillo!

Translation, anyone? This is a funny one. Scared the pants off the old geezer when I started to laugh and he scurried away. I couldn't help myself. I was not a proper senorita at all. Poor upbringing, I guess.

quevedo

Oct 1, 2008, 3:18 PM

Post #4 of 24 (6666 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Piel canela

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A popular song that also calls for the extinction of all stars:

Que se quede el infinito sin estrellas
y que pierda el ancho mar su inmensidad,
pero el negro de tus ojos que no muera
y el canela de tu piel que quede igual.

Saludos cordiales,

Quevedo

Oscar2

Oct 1, 2008, 4:17 PM

Post #5 of 24 (6661 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Amor y romanticismo 3

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Yes, it is funny and ageless. I through in a little something that seems to be a little current these days.

Oh, sweet lady, you’re so hot your beauty ignites the matches in my pocket.

Georgia

Oct 1, 2008, 4:22 PM

Post #6 of 24 (6658 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 3

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Exactly. I just realized, however, that the "old geezer" was probably younger than I am now. Como han pasado los anos, indeed. (sorry, no tilde, don't even comment!!)

Oscar2

Oct 1, 2008, 4:27 PM

Post #7 of 24 (6658 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Piel canela

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Quevedo, what a nice verse of a song. Romantic with a capital “R.” I will attempt to translate this one but need a little more time to sift all the romanticism from the sweetness of its flavor.

Oscar2

Oct 2, 2008, 9:57 AM

Post #8 of 24 (6639 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Piel canela

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Buenos días Quevedo,

The verse carries with it immense sentiment, which defies all logic but emotions and love, are a world all its own. Us little guys on this planet have the wonderful luxury of dreaming. A measure of fantasy palpitates, bringing meaning to the unimaginable and symbolically bringing life to the overtures of the heart.

I really liked this one Quevedo:

Que se quede el infinito sin estrellas
y que pierda el ancho mar su inmensidad,
pero el negro de tus ojos que no muera
y el canela de tu piel que quede igual.

Should the stars in the heavens and the immenseness of the seas be lost; I could live in the darkness of your eyes and the cinnamon of your flesh.

Gracias

jerezano

Oct 2, 2008, 3:28 PM

Post #9 of 24 (6624 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Piel canela

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Hello,

"Piel canela" and "Ojos de color cafe"--my two favorite Mexican love songs.

jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on Oct 2, 2008, 3:44 PM)

quevedo

Oct 2, 2008, 3:49 PM

Post #10 of 24 (6619 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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Piel canela comes from the inspiration of Bobby Capó, a Puerto Rican composer. The romantic bolero Ojos cafés ("Me miré en el fondo de tus lindos ojos...") was composed by Carlos A. González, who also wrote Eternamente ("Eternamente te amaré, yo te lo juro...").

Cordiales,

Quevedo

Georgia

Oct 4, 2008, 12:38 PM

Post #11 of 24 (6591 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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In Ecuador and Colombia they say "trigueno" for dark skin, is "piel canela" the same as "triguena"??

sergiogomez / Moderator

Oct 4, 2008, 12:59 PM

Post #12 of 24 (6589 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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Sí. Piel canela, piel morena, or simply moreno/morena for someone dark-skinned. Morena clara for light brown skin, and prieta for a real darkie. Trigueña is also used once in a while, but brings to mind Quico's mother from El Chavo del Ocho--brown skin and blondish hair. Like ripe wheat.

Georgia

Oct 4, 2008, 1:08 PM

Post #13 of 24 (6588 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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Ah - well in Colombia two of my kids were officially described as "triguenos" - the others look more Italian. Quechua ancestry in there somewhere.

esperanza

Oct 4, 2008, 4:06 PM

Post #14 of 24 (6580 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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A friend from Honduras, whose father was a very black African and whose mother was Honduran of Spanish descent, was always called trigueña here in Mexico.

For what it's worth, Mexico is extremely conscious of the gradations of skin color. Those gradations range from tez blanca (white complexion) to moreno/prieto/trigueño--all renderings of very dark skin. Piel canela is a toasty reddish brown, just the color of ground cinnamon or a cinnamon stick.

I often wish I had been born with piel canela...

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Georgia

Oct 4, 2008, 4:55 PM

Post #15 of 24 (6578 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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So right, Esperanza. Even within families there is this awareness and distinction. I try not to think about it.

Oscar2

Oct 4, 2008, 9:05 PM

Post #16 of 24 (6567 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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I’ve heard them call light skinned Mexicans or I think any light skinned person (wetos or wedos/wedas not sure of spelling) or whether its slang. Maybe they use this description most NoB?

esperanza

Oct 4, 2008, 9:46 PM

Post #17 of 24 (6564 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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Oscar, you are talking about the word güero...pronounced WEHR-oh. A güero can be anyone with light skin and light hair, including Mexicans, foreigners from north of the Mexican border, Europeans, and other fair-skinned types.

Mexicans whose complexion and hair are light are often nicknamed Güero or Güera. What Georgia and I are talking about is something different than that. Here's a story to illustrate it:

My former next-door neighbor, a Mexican woman, gave birth a few years ago. She was in the hospital for about 24 hours and brought the baby boy home. I visited them right away, at her husband's urging. She held the baby out to me and, when I took him in my arms, she pulled the blanket back from his sleeping face. "Mira, Cristina," she smiled proudly, "Mira como está de blanco! Gracias a Dios..." The baby has black hair, dark brown eyes--and skin fairer than hers and his father's, a matter of great pride.

No one has ever called him Güero, because he's not a güero. But he doesn't look 'dark', either. In her mind, that's a huge plus.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Oscar2

Oct 5, 2008, 10:42 AM

Post #18 of 24 (6547 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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Buenos Dias Cristina,

Ah-ha, güero or güera is the correct spelling for a word which carries its significance in characterizing impressions of those seen as light too very light complexions. The story you gave us was very telling and some of these sensitivities are carried into the mainstream and played out in universal and popular but not limited too, publications such as Vogue, Cosmopolitan and so on.

Runways/catwalks are jammed with imagery strutting their stuff for the world to feast their eyes on and where trickle-down emulation can become a fad, profession, and even household and family hopeful expectations. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and families, like most of us all, somehow find ourselves wedged somewhere in-between.

My gorgeous wife of 36 years, is not only a very blond, blue eyed güera but during the winter months (unless we are sunning in Mexico) we kid around and I tell her, “hey, babe, you better get some sun or your going to vanish into transparency!” She laughs with me and once in a while she talks about her brothers and sisters who as she puts it, such as herself, were little towheads as children.

I must admit, personally while meandering through life’s furrows, mall hallways, village centers and more, while people watching, yes, I did notice some of the more lean beauties that walked the walk akin to Runway publications and yes, the eye of appreciation would somehow sneak in an internal smile.

Quote

"Mira, Cristina," she smiled proudly, "Mira como está de blanco! Gracias a Dios..." The baby has black hair, dark brown eyes--and skin fairer than hers and his father's, a matter of great pride.

This is why its not hard to understand why your friend expresses appreciation for you, their child and for whatever reasons says what she feels. What is clear is seen in someway by what most of us are weaned on in our little piece of the world where we’ve “lived.”

sergiogomez / Moderator

Oct 6, 2008, 3:38 PM

Post #19 of 24 (6527 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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It's all relative, though. Often the only difference between piel morena clara and piel canela is a couple summer afternoons outside. Moreno or prieto is what you look like after a whole summer working in the milpa. Unless, of course, you're a güero, and then you go out of your way not to tan. Post-conquest prejudices. But then again, being native wouldn't be a bad thing, and being called indio wouldn't be an insult if the "Indians" weren't the poor underclass now. Mesoamerica had an advanced, flourishing civilization at the time of the conquest, whereas Europe was just coming out of the Dark Ages.

Georgia

Oct 6, 2008, 3:54 PM

Post #20 of 24 (6524 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Piel canela y Ojos cafés

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All true. But even within families there is discrimination against the darker skinned members.

quevedo

Oct 7, 2008, 12:02 AM

Post #21 of 24 (6510 views)

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Re: [Georgia] ¿Discriminación?

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Strong word. Allow me to disagree, please, at least in part.

Salud y saludos,

Quevedo

sergiogomez / Moderator

Oct 7, 2008, 12:04 AM

Post #22 of 24 (6507 views)

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Re: [quevedo] ¿Discriminación?

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Agreed, estimado Quevedo. Although feelings can be strong at times, I would tend to call it more of a tendency to favor the lighter-skinned family members.

Georgia

Oct 7, 2008, 6:27 AM

Post #23 of 24 (6496 views)

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Re: [quevedo] ¿Discriminación?

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Perhaps a strong word, but as "sergiogomez" suggests there is a different feeling about lighter skinned members or darker skinned members. When we moved our family to the US it became especially pronounced - I recall one occasion when one of my sons who has an olive-skinned complexion denying that his sister was his biological sister because she is very dark. (And there was hell to pay! He never did d that again to my knowledge.) And it is true here in Mexico that if a child is fairer of skin it pleases the family. Now, perhaps that is not discrimination, but it certainly is a preference or distinction. And if you are the darker-complected member of the family it sure feels like discrimination!

sergiogomez / Moderator

Oct 7, 2008, 9:20 AM

Post #24 of 24 (6489 views)

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Re: [Georgia] ¿Discriminación?

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Of course it is, Georgia. It's just that "discrimination" has a very strong connotation in Spanish, so it's not used much, unlike in English where it's pretty much a household word.