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El Bote

Jun 28, 2002, 8:20 PM

Post #1 of 25 (8794 views)

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"Lo arruinastes"

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This is the best "clean translation" I've come up with for "you've messed it up" (we can no longer use it).la regastes=you messed-up (made a mistake)
lo echastes a perder=you wasted itAnybody with anything better/more common?Saludos, Bote

Hank Duckman

Jun 29, 2002, 11:02 AM

Post #2 of 25 (8764 views)

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"Lo arruinastes"...verb ending bad example

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Bote;: la regastes=you messed-up (made a mistake)
: lo echastes a perder=you wasted itA humble suggestion. The addition of the s to the second person singular informal ending is common useage usually among uneducated people. Why don't you explain this when you use grammatically incorrect slang so people just learning the language don't get wrong ideas?Or am I making a mistake in the grammar?
Saludos;Hank

Jim en Cancún

Jun 30, 2002, 5:05 AM

Post #3 of 25 (8766 views)

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Well, yes and no..

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Again

Jun 30, 2002, 6:09 PM

Post #4 of 25 (8765 views)

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I can see that you interact mainly with "sirvientas" and "albañiles". It shows.

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: 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : "todo los días"=todos los días: "ta ueno"=está bueno: You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

Hank Duckman

Jul 1, 2002, 5:59 AM

Post #5 of 25 (8760 views)

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Well, yes and no..Here we go again

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: You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHOWell, here we go again, Jim, the same ugly beast rears its head. Does one stay with the average or does one try to achieve something higher. Does one try to better ones understanding of things or does one take the road more traveled? Does one teach students to try for the highest grade or to relax and get C's?

Now, I have seen you correct people on the forum when they make a mistake so I know you're not beyond that. It seems whenever I do so, you come out rooting for the common man, waving the banner decrying snobbism as the common enemy, intimating I am "one of them".
I presume you are a man of reasonable culture. So am I. I wouldn't dream of telling my servant or the man in the street that she (or he) made a grammatical error. I would only do that if the person requested that I correct them. Nor would I ask them their academic credentials and tell them mine are superior.But on this forum, we are talking about birds of another feather. This is ostensibly a place for learning. Therefore a correction may be offered, as you have done many times to others, with the understanding that is not to demean but to help.When I point out that a way of saying something is "uneducated", I am doing it in the same sense, to point it out for the purpose of bettering the knowledge of those who wish to learn, not to make a statement of superiority. The poet Browning once said, "Ah but a man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for". That's my view on education, reaching for quality.Whether your "method of teaching" is better than mine is a subject that will remain unexplored. Saludos;Hank

Jim en Cancún

Jul 1, 2002, 8:08 AM

Post #6 of 25 (8759 views)

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"....ELSE what's a heaven for." nfm

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: : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO: Well, here we go again, Jim, the same ugly beast rears its head. Does one stay with the average or does one try to achieve something higher. Does one try to better ones understanding of things or does one take the road more traveled? Does one teach students to try for the highest grade or to relax and get C's?
:
: Now, I have seen you correct people on the forum when they make a mistake so I know you're not beyond that. It seems whenever I do so, you come out rooting for the common man, waving the banner decrying snobbism as the common enemy, intimating I am "one of them".
: I presume you are a man of reasonable culture. So am I. I wouldn't dream of telling my servant or the man in the street that she (or he) made a grammatical error. I would only do that if the person requested that I correct them. Nor would I ask them their academic credentials and tell them mine are superior.: But on this forum, we are talking about birds of another feather. This is ostensibly a place for learning. Therefore a correction may be offered, as you have done many times to others, with the understanding that is not to demean but to help.: When I point out that a way of saying something is "uneducated", I am doing it in the same sense, to point it out for the purpose of bettering the knowledge of those who wish to learn, not to make a statement of superiority. The poet Browning once said, "Ah but a man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for". That's my view on education, reaching for quality.: Whether your "method of teaching" is better than mine is a subject that will remain unexplored. : Saludos;: Hank

Jim in Cancún

Jul 1, 2002, 8:14 AM

Post #7 of 25 (8766 views)

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I proudly interact with "sirvientas" & "albañiles" & Licenciados & D

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: : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

DavidMTY

Jul 1, 2002, 8:52 AM

Post #8 of 25 (8765 views)

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A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

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...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata": : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

Jim en Cancún

Jul 1, 2002, 10:06 AM

Post #9 of 25 (8762 views)

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Lo que sí sé es que no todos los licenciados son abogados, mi estimado abogado! nfm

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: ...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
: Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata"
: : : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

te redundastes

Jul 2, 2002, 6:46 AM

Post #10 of 25 (8763 views)

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A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

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¿El verbo redundar significa "to be redundant"? ¿Y se conjuga en esa manera? con el pronombre personal.¿No es una falsa cognada? 
¿No será "es redundante" o "es una redundancia"?

brad

Jul 2, 2002, 6:58 AM

Post #11 of 25 (8759 views)

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Sorry I put the subject in the Name box on above post.

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: ¿El verbo redundar significa "to be redundant"? ¿Y se conjuga en esa manera? con el pronombre personal.: ¿No es una falsa cognada? 
:
: ¿No será "es redundante" o "es una redundancia"?

DavidMTY

Jul 2, 2002, 8:28 AM

Post #12 of 25 (8761 views)

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A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

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Ojo!! This is a clear case of self-proclaimed wit & Poetic License, in light of the fact that Jim described in one of these posts that we frequently invent new word uses and word descriptions when the perfect ones don't suit us, plus, of course the "astes" ending is the albeit incorrect but as Jim mentions utilized colloquialisms by some respectable members of the society. An by the way, that would be technically the reflexive pronoun. I wouldn't expect this to be understood unless taken in the vein we are pursuing here.
Thanks for pointing this out.Best...David(MTY)
: ¿El verbo redundar significa "to be redundant"? ¿Y se conjuga en esa manera? con el pronombre personal.: ¿No es una falsa cognada? 
:
: ¿No será "es redundante" o "es una redundancia"?

DavidMTY

Jul 2, 2002, 8:36 AM

Post #13 of 25 (8761 views)

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All of the Europeans, and Americans, and Texans and... in Cancun?

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Mi estimado, I really thought your original comment was kind of funny!
Best...David(MTY): : ...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
: : Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata":
: : : : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

Lavanda

Jul 2, 2002, 8:45 AM

Post #14 of 25 (8759 views)

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¿los abogados no son licenciados?

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I find this discussion muy interesantelicenciado vs abogado is on the same level
as the UK use of solicitor vs barrister.As for the "s" at the end of verbs, it is
never correct- but in popular language it
is used and understood.One may be VERY educated (formally) and
still use the incorrect - and for many
reasons.Some grew up hearing and using it, later
went to school and learned the correct
way but slip into the usage anyway.Some people who were not born speaking
spanish might have heard it and thought
it correct.Sometimes it is used in order to "fit in"
or to be accepted by certain people who
speak in this way.Sometimes, some people tailor their speech
to the audience.Some people slip and slide between the two
usages.But remember, we are labeled in many ways
and should speak the way we expect to be
perceived.Sometimes some of us speak in an affected
way as well.Some of us make big bucks by using less
than perfect language. Think of "Gone
with the Wind", Justin Wilson, among others.Some people are beginning to learn and are
taking a risk and doing the best they can,
and would welcome corrections which are
done in a friendly, kind way.: ...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
: Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata"
: : : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

Lav

Jul 2, 2002, 8:47 AM

Post #15 of 25 (8762 views)

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A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

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si: ¿El verbo redundar significa "to be redundant"? ¿Y se conjuga en esa manera? con el pronombre personal.: ¿No es una falsa cognada? 
:
: ¿No será "es redundante" o "es una redundancia"?

Hank Duckman

Jul 2, 2002, 11:40 AM

Post #16 of 25 (8760 views)

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How we are perceived

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Lavanda;Your discourse was a good summary of the points relating to choices of usage. As you said:"But remember, we are labeled in many ways
and should speak the way we expect to be
perceived."My thesis is if one is teaching beginners in the language, they should be well informed on these points. They can then choose how they wish to be perceived.Saludos;Hank

Hank Duckman

Jul 2, 2002, 11:57 AM

Post #17 of 25 (8760 views)

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"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Sorry, Jim, your mistake!

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Jim:Allow me to correct your correction of my quote.Browning, Robert "Andrea del Sarto": "Ah but a man's reach should exceed his grasp OR what's a heaven for". I learned the poem from my Mother when I was a kid. As you might know, long term memory is likely to survive the longest. In this case, mine has.Why not look it up in a book of Browning's works?Saludos;Hank

Jim en Cancún

Jul 2, 2002, 1:47 PM

Post #18 of 25 (8761 views)

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"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Sorry, Hank, your mistake!

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local librarian

Jul 2, 2002, 2:28 PM

Post #19 of 25 (8763 views)

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Google is your friend

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A search on Google for both versions of the Browning quote returned 74 hits of Hank's version (and includes the original text by Browning) and just 8 hits of Jim's version (including one site Jim cited below that can't be taken seriously). This round goes to Hank!!!!!! 
: : Hank:: Allow me to correct your correction of you correction of your quote.: 1.- http://quotes.prolix.nu/Authors/?Robert_Browning: 2.- Another man at "http://www.chow-chows.com/chowsforachangetar.htm: ""A man's reach should exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for?" I remember suffering through the poem, a long one, in high school and wondering why Browning, who died ages before I was born, had hated me so much. I do not remember the name of the poem, could it be Andrea del Sarto?, but I do remember that line."
: (Could it be he remembered wrongly?): 3.- "Browning wrote, "Man's reach must exceed his grasp/ Else what's a heaven for?" http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5484/tam-02.htm: 4.- "A man's reach must exceed his grasp, else what's a Heaven for?" -- Robert Browning http://www.evula.com/quotes/unorganized2.html: 5.- now this one say is the poem and says it the way you do:
: "....or what's a heaven for." http://towerwebproductions.com/alt-lib/lit/browning.htm: 6.- And then this is my favorite: ""A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or else what's a heaven for?"
: -- Robert Browning: http://www.foothill.net/fta/quotes.html: 7.- "Man's reach must exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for: Robert Browning’s Andrea del Sarto [1855], line 97: "A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, else what’s a heaven for?": Used in Stardust, Taming a Sea Horse, Hugger Mugger."
: http://www.mindspring.com/~boba4/Oftquote.htm: 8.- I MUST ADMIT THAT The online version I found of the whole poem uses the word "or" but I wonder why everything else has "else". Maybe we all learned it wrong--I even found one website that said it was a quote from Burns!: 9.- I learned a lot from people too--and not all of it was correct. And as far as long-term memory goes you are right. When we learn things wrong we still remember them and We remember things we should have forgotten long ago.: Could it be that we are both right? I hope not--it would spoil all our fun! :): saludos.: jim

Jul 2, 2002, 3:24 PM

Post #20 of 25 (8760 views)

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I says yous both gots a point

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There are native English speakers that speak this way-- but would you want to teach someone this "style" so that he could fit in?

Hank Duckman

Jul 2, 2002, 8:19 PM

Post #21 of 25 (8767 views)

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"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Quality of education, Jim

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: : Hank:: Allow me to correct your correction of you correction of your quote.Jim;Sorry you had difficulty with the poetry of R.B. in school :>) You did quite a web search attempting to prove your point, but in so doing you helped me to assert mine concerning the quality of education and giving the student that extra enlightenment, not letting "easy slang or colloquialisms rule the day in the name of "democracy". Quality is the catchword here, not snobbery.Quality of sources of information also fits into this scheme. That's what a good education is about.As I said in my post, my Mother taught me Browning's "Andrea del Sarto". She learned his poetry from a book entitled "The Poems of Robert Browning", published by Thomas Y. Crowell Company, N.Y., 1896 as did I. It is prefaced by the poet and dedicated to Alfred Tennyson. The following is Browning's preface, if you care to read it. The book is sitting on my desk as I type this. The correct word in the quote is "or"."In the present selection from my poetry, there is an attempt to
escape from the embarrassment of appearing to pronounce upon
what myself may consider the best of it. I adopt another principle;
and by simply stringing together certain pieces on the thread of an
imaginary personality, I present them in succession, rather as the
natural development of a particular experience than because I
account them the most noteworthy portion of my work. Such an
attempt was made in the volume of selections from the poetry of
Elizabeth Barrett Browning: to which?in outward uniformity,
at least?my own would venture to become a companion.
A few years ago, had such an opportunity presented itself, I
might have been tempted to say a word in reply to the objections
my poetry was used to encounter. Time has kindly co-operated
with my disinclination to write the poetrv and the criticism
besides. The readers I am at last privileged to expect, meet me
fully half-way; and if, from the fitting stand-point, they must
"censure me in their wisdom," they have previously "awakened
their senses that they may be the better judge." Nor do I apprehend
any more charges of being wilfully obscure, unconscientiously care-
less, or perversely harsh. Having hitherto done mv utmost in the
art to which my life is a devotion, I cannot engage to increase the
effort: but I conceive that there may be helpful light, as well as
re-assuring warmth, in the attention and sympathy I gratefully
acknowledge
R. B.London, May 14, 1872"
Saludos;Hank

brad

Jul 3, 2002, 5:36 AM

Post #22 of 25 (8759 views)

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¿los abogados no son licenciados?

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Your analogy on this point is incorrect. While barristers and solicitors practice law as does an abogado, a licenciado can practice many other and different professions. Generally speaking someone with the equivalent of a Batchelors degree (licenciatura) is considered a licenciado. And then we have "el abogado del diablo" who shows up frequently on this forum!! :0) : I find this discussion muy interesante: licenciado vs abogado is on the same level
: as the UK use of solicitor vs barrister.

DavidMTY

Jul 4, 2002, 12:35 PM

Post #23 of 25 (8762 views)

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Lo que sí sabes, estimado maestro...

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...no es todo, maistro,
Nor would I suggest you generally believed that. Just the "persuasiveness" of the reply which was duly noted.If we remove the BS from all this (and the BA, etc) you might not care to decipher I was alluding to a little dangerous knowledge IMhO worth knowing, that is:
The use of "Licenciado" is synomous just for abogados in many conversational contexts in Latin America, including Mexico.Yes, I worked hard at the pun, and yea I know the other general definition for licenciado is probably first in the dictionary. I just thought the original post was funny for the irony and satire it contained.(given that since only abogados were singled and the common alternative use of "Licenciado," and that so many love to hate lawyers)
David(MTY)..."On the road less traveled because it was the only one I saw when they diverged." Credit: inspired by Roberto Escarcha
: : ...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
: : Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata":
: : : : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

Licenciado

Jul 4, 2002, 5:17 PM

Post #24 of 25 (8761 views)

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Abogado = Licenciado en Derecho

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: ...no es todo, maistro,
: Nor would I suggest you generally believed that. Just the "persuasiveness" of the reply which was duly noted.: If we remove the BS from all this (and the BA, etc) you might not care to decipher I was alluding to a little dangerous knowledge IMhO worth knowing, that is:
: The use of "Licenciado" is synomous just for abogados in many conversational contexts in Latin America, including Mexico.: Yes, I worked hard at the pun, and yea I know the other general definition for licenciado is probably first in the dictionary. I just thought the original post was funny for the irony and satire it contained.(given that since only abogados were singled and the common alternative use of "Licenciado," and that so many love to hate lawyers)
: David(MTY)..."On the road less traveled because it was the only one I saw when they diverged." Credit: inspired by Roberto Escarcha:
: : : ...although I see some of us might wish to divorce those honorable and respected folks into a class by themselves. Ta Bueno.
: : : Saludos...David(MTY) "El Metelón de la pata": :
: : : : : : 1.- I agree with Hank that the proper spelling of that form of the verb does not include an "s" at the end--IN IT'S WRITTEN FORM.: : : : : : 2.- You will HEAR the "s" at the end of that form of virtually all verbs in that form and I feel it is important to know what you will be hearing.: : : : : : 3.- As for the decision on whether one is "uneducated" if he/she uses that form verbally I will leave to Hank and others to whom it seems important to define the educational level of those with whom they are speaking.: : : : : : 4.- I, personally, feel it is important to be able to communicate with people at all "levels" and therefore feel it is important to know exactly how people speak--rightly or wrongly--correctly or incorrectly so as to be able to communicate with them.: : : : : : 5.- Many times you will "hear" something in the spoken language that is not grammatically correct--Dat's rite, ain't it y'all? and I personaly prefer to look things up--especially the first time to see how it is spelled and accented as the majority of native speakers in any language in general do not concern themselves with the "details" and whether that is good or bad is another topic. : : : : : : "todo los días"=todos los días: : : : : : "ta ueno"=está bueno: : : : : : You have to know what people are saying as a first step in learning how to communicate and although IMHO it is a good idea to learn the rules and regs of any language, that knowledge should not be used to make others feel inferior or to correct them and even less to turn ourselves into linguistics snobs. JMHO

innocent mind

Jul 4, 2002, 9:03 PM

Post #25 of 25 (8780 views)

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Lo que sí sabes, estimado maestro...

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Yeah, I'd have to say that is pretty dangerous knowledge alrighty. It ranks right up there on the "Dangerous Things to Know " scale with the knowledge of who really shot Colossio. : If we remove the BS from all this (and the BA, etc) you might not care to decipher I was alluding to a little DANGEROUS KNOWLEDGE IMhO worth knowing, that is:
: The use of "Licenciado" is synomous just for abogados in many conversational contexts in Latin America, including Mexico.

&quot;Lo arruinastes&quot;

&quot;Lo arruinastes&quot;...verb ending bad example

Well, yes and no..

I can see that you interact mainly with &quot;sirvientas&quot; and &quot;albañiles&quot;. It shows.

Well, yes and no..Here we go again

&quot;....ELSE what's a heaven for.&quot; nfm

I proudly interact with &quot;sirvientas&quot; &amp; &quot;albañiles&quot; &amp; Licenciados &amp; D

A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

Lo que sí sé es que no todos los licenciados son abogados, mi estimado abogado! nfm

A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

Sorry I put the subject in the Name box on above post.

A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

All of the Europeans, and Americans, and Texans and... in Cancun?

¿los abogados no son licenciados?

A poco, ¿los abogados no son licenciados? te redundastes:)...

How we are perceived

&quot;....ELSE what's a heaven for.&quot; Sorry, Jim, your mistake!

&quot;....ELSE what's a heaven for.&quot; Sorry, Hank, your mistake!

Google is your friend

I says yous both gots a point

&quot;....ELSE what's a heaven for.&quot; Quality of education, Jim

¿los abogados no son licenciados?

Lo que sí sabes, estimado maestro...

Abogado = Licenciado en Derecho

Lo que sí sabes, estimado maestro...

"Lo arruinastes"

"Lo arruinastes"...verb ending bad example

I can see that you interact mainly with "sirvientas" and "albañiles". It shows.

"....ELSE what's a heaven for." nfm

I proudly interact with "sirvientas" & "albañiles" & Licenciados & D

"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Sorry, Jim, your mistake!

"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Sorry, Hank, your mistake!

"....ELSE what's a heaven for." Quality of education, Jim