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sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 21, 2008, 8:14 PM

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Amor y romanticismo 2

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It's been a while since there were any posts in Amor y romanticismo, and as I remember, Pat had put in a request to keep the thread going. Since the other thread was getting a tad long, I'm starting a continuation. I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to get frustrated reading threads once they get to be more than a page long. Laziness. . . .Anyway, I've had this song floating around in my head lately. Old, but tried and true.

Si Dios me quita la vida antes que a ti
le voy a pedir ser el ángel que cuide tus pasos
pues si otros brazos te dan
aquel calor que te di
sería tan grande mi celo
que en el mismo cielo
me vuelvo a morir.

Eso es solo un pensamiento
pues en tu momento
de locura me confiesas
que cuando me besas
eres tan mía como la playa del mar.

prmjcm

Sep 22, 2008, 4:12 PM

Post #2 of 24 (9352 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2

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thank you for keeping this going i sent to my girlfriend, she loves these, and it is so much more enjoyable than speaking of violence again thank you and keep them coming.
Pat in san pancho, gto

Oscar2

Sep 22, 2008, 6:50 PM

Post #3 of 24 (9342 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2

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I certainly agree, that pleasantry, romance, thoughts of love and that which goes with it, is such a relief and seemingly puts distance wanted away from violence. Here is couple more I find telling.

El amor que se alimenta de regalos siempre está hambriento.
The love that feeds on gifts is always hungry.

La medida del amor es amar sin medida.
The measure of love is love without measure.

If you´re replying to thanks we say " de nada; no hay de qué" Translation …

jerezano

Sep 22, 2008, 7:37 PM

Post #4 of 24 (9337 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Hello:

And for those of us who are learning Spanish here is a nonpoetic translation:

Si Dios me quita la vida antes que a ti
le voy a pedir ser el ángel que cuide tus pasos

If I should die before you do
I'll ask to be your guardian angel

pues si otros brazos te dan
aquel calor que te di

since if other arms give you
that warmth that I gave you

sería tan grande mi celo
que en el mismo cielo

my jealousy would be so great
that in that same heaven

me vuelvo a morir.

I will die again.

Eso es solo un pensamiento
pues en tu momento

This is only a thought
since in a moment

de locura me confiesas
que cuando me besas

of craziness(passion?) you confessed
that when you kiss me

eres tan mía como la playa del mar.

you are as much mine as the beach is of the sea.

I too am enjoying this literature kick, but we must remember that many of our fellow posters do not yet know sufficient Spanish to understand what is going on. Without a rough translation how are they going to appreciate the wonderful facility that Spanish has for sentimental expression? And too, Sr. Quevedo can help us with these translations as well as you posters who are fluent in Spanish. So, please give us a translation at the same time.

jerezano.

jerezano

Sep 22, 2008, 7:43 PM

Post #5 of 24 (9336 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Hello: Oscar 2 asked for a translation of:

de nada--it's nothing. You sometimes hear es nada.

no hay de que--it's not worth your thanks. This one is harder to translate. I don't like my translation. Is there a better one?

jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on Sep 22, 2008, 7:45 PM)

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 22, 2008, 10:04 PM

Post #6 of 24 (9325 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Amor y romanticismo 2

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De nada. . .no hay de qué--It's nothing. Don't worry about it. Said with a playful wave of the hand to a good friend or acquaintance that you've just done a favor for.

quevedo

Sep 23, 2008, 9:50 AM

Post #7 of 24 (9311 views)

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Re: [jerezano] No hay de qué

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No hay de qué... dar las gracias. No reason to thank me.

Salud y saludos,

Quevedo

Georgia

Sep 23, 2008, 1:00 PM

Post #8 of 24 (9301 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2: The most romantic song

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Sabor a mi.
Tanto tiempo disfrutamos de este amor Nuestras almas se acercaron tanto así Que yo guardo tu sabor como tú llevas también Sabor a mi Si negaras mi presencia en tu vivir Bastaría con abrazarte y conversar. Tanta vida yo te di que por fuerza llevara Sabor a mí No pretendo ser tu dueño No soy nada, yo no tengo vanidad. En mi vida, doy lo bueno Soy tan pobre que otra cosa puedo dar. Pasaran más de mil años, muchos más. Yo no sé si tenga amor la eternidad. Pero allá tal como aquí, en la boca llevaras Sabor a mí No pretendo ser tu dueño No soy nada, yo no tengo vanidad De mi vida, doy lo bueno Soy tan pobre que otra cosa puedo dar Pasaran más de mil años, muchos más Yo no sé si tenga amor la eternidad Pero allá tal como aquí, en la boca llevaras Sabor a mí Sabor a mí Sabor a mí Sabor a míThis song makes me tingle!!!!

Oscar2

Sep 23, 2008, 1:56 PM

Post #9 of 24 (9299 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Jerezano, honestly, speaking for myself, it’s not hard to imagine interests piqued by something enjoyed. As of late, the gentleness, the ability to complement life in Spanish with sort of poetic phrases, which I find differently lacking in English, this itself, has genuinely made me try harder and yes, my reading and understanding of the Spanish language is gratefully improving.

Sharing romanticism carries messages most do enjoy and realizing that this is one of the most romantic languages on the planet, makes it that much more special. In a short phrase: Te voy a cantar las palomas del cielo…. Touch’s home and is very moving in a deep understanding of Mexican cultural symbolism. If I were to say in English, “I’m going to sing the birds from the sky or heavens” – it just doesn’t have the same meaning and is frankly, romantically uninspiring.

I can’t speak for others, its just something that its done and is doing for yours truly. As for your translation of:

“no hay de que--it's not worth your thanks. This one is harder to translate. I don't like my translation. Is there a better one?”

I’d probably go with: “there’s no need” But on second thought Olivia’s take also has a nice ring, especially with that telling smile of friendship: “it’s nothing!”

Oscar2

Sep 27, 2008, 5:19 PM

Post #10 of 24 (9281 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Here is one I think my interpretation gives meaning.

El amor nace de un flechazo; la amistad del intercambio frecuente y prolongado.
(Octavio Paz)

Love is born when the arrow of love strikes frequently with prolonged friendship.

morgaine7

Sep 27, 2008, 6:12 PM

Post #11 of 24 (9277 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Hmmm, I interpreted it more like this:
Love is born at the strike of an arrow; friendship from frequent exchanges over time.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I somehow think a comparison was intended, although I lack the poetic talent to express it well.

Kate

Oscar2

Sep 27, 2008, 7:13 PM

Post #12 of 24 (9270 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Amor y romanticismo 2

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I liked that one too. Here's another entry which can be interesting?

El mayor obstáculo para el amor es el temor secreto de no ser dignos de ser amados.
(Juan Pablo Valdés)

Loves major obstacle is secretly fearing we are not worthy of being loved.

morgaine7

Sep 27, 2008, 8:13 PM

Post #13 of 24 (9266 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Very nice one! My version is similar to yours:
The biggest obstacle to love is the secret fear of being unworthy.

Kate

jerezano

Sep 28, 2008, 8:07 AM

Post #14 of 24 (9253 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Hello:

Translation is something we need to do with a foreign language to understand what the author is talking about.

So the first duty of a translation is to get that understanding:

>>>El amor nace de un flechazo; la amistad del intercambio frecuente y prolongado.
(Octavio Paz)

Word for word: Love is born from an arrow's strike; friendship from frequent and prolonged interchange.

Then and only then, after we understand what the author is saying, can we worry about trying to match in our own langluage the author's style:

Love strikes like a bolt from the blue: friendship from frequent and prolonged understanding.

Question: Is the meaning of the author preserved? Second question: Does the final translation preserve more of the author's style and feeling? Answer 1: Yes. Answer 2: Maybe.

Of course there are better and worse translations.

A translation which doesn't get an understanding of the author's meaning, no matter how romantic, is not a good translation. So, let's keep things like this going so we all can learn. Sr. Quevedo and Olivia are both here to help us.

jerezano.

quevedo

Sep 28, 2008, 9:16 AM

Post #15 of 24 (9248 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Excelente

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Intelligent points and fine translation.

Muchas gracias, amigo de Jerez.

Buen domingo,

Quevedo

Oscar2

Sep 28, 2008, 6:12 PM

Post #16 of 24 (9230 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Excelente

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This is good. I find myself busy looking for interpretation more so than in the past because English expression of same, most of the time, doesn’t carry with it el dulce del momento. It seems to me literal interpretation of Spanish is not only somewhat in reverse but word placement at times make the flavor carried from Spanish too English an abyss of confusion and/or a bit disjointed.

This is why I agree that personal harmony with the true flavor born from its cultural influence can also make it an interpretive song in both languages. I find myself digging; searching for a stanza, which reflects the gut and the heart of an expression. I have also noticed this of others, which brings even more of a challenge instilled in word play, that yes, its art, intriguing, and yes, it can be fun.

May I propose something, which may give the interpretation juices a kicker and perhaps raise the bar. Below is a list of interpretive takes on the following Mexican quote. Select the number of the one which in your estimation more closely follows the original but carries over into English with the most of everything? Other entries are welcome.

El amor nace de un flechazo; la amistad del intercambio frecuente y prolongado.
(Octavio Paz)

1. Love is born when the arrow of love strikes frequently with prolonged friendship.

2. Love is born at the strike of an arrow; friendship from frequent exchanges over time.

3. Love strikes like a bolt from the blue: friendship from frequent and prolonged understanding.

4. Next…..?

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Sep 28, 2008, 6:14 PM)

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 28, 2008, 7:15 PM

Post #17 of 24 (9225 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Excelente

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Of the options you've given, I like this one the best: Love strikes like a bolt from the blue; friendship from frequent and prolonged understanding.

If I were to come up with something different, it would be something like this: Love is born in the blink of an eye (when Cupid's arrow strikes), but friendship arises out of frequent and prolonged (sustained) exchange (communication, sharing). I can't decide which nuance I like best, so I put alternative options in parentheses.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 28, 2008, 7:28 PM

Post #18 of 24 (9223 views)

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Re: [prmjcm] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Pat, another one for your girlfriend. I'm assuming you can send her sound/video files? This one just isn't the same in print.

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

Destilando Amor. I love the way Pepe Aguilar sings this.

morgaine7

Sep 28, 2008, 8:27 PM

Post #19 of 24 (9218 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Excelente

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Quote

Of the options you've given, I like this one the best: Love strikes like a bolt from the blue; friendship from frequent and prolonged understanding.

I agree. Well done, and thank you everyone.

Kate

prmjcm

Sep 28, 2008, 8:37 PM

Post #20 of 24 (9215 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Thank You so much i sent along to cristina and i am sure she will love it, i really like this thread it makes me smile, and it deals not only with translation but a place we all have in our heart. The discussion at times is great.
Pat from san pancho, gto

Oscar2

Sep 28, 2008, 11:03 PM

Post #21 of 24 (9207 views)

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Re: [prmjcm] Amor y romanticismo 2

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Hummm, Pepe Aguilar, I was not familiar with Pepe Aguilar but now I’ll look to hear more of him. He’s good. Gracias Olivia! Being an old dog, old school is something enjoyed from time to time and this entry still works for me.

Pat, Besame Mucho, is a song seasoned through the ages and relives itself through the satin voice of Andrea Bocelli. As old as it is, the message is still sensitive, and tenderly possesses a love desired to be kept. Enjoy…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPRESlT4Ccg

.

Oscar2

Sep 29, 2008, 10:31 AM

Post #22 of 24 (9190 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Excelente

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My selection would also be: Love strikes like a bolt from the blue; friendship from frequent and prolonged understanding.

Your take was also well interpreted and much of the English used is more extensive. This comes as a surprise because I was operating under the impression that tighter guidelines meant staying as close to the original Mexican quote in size and content. This additional freedom of movement, gives greater latitude for more English expression to closer capture its cultural essence.

I had to read this one several times and its essence is very touching. I believe this one is a toughie. I’ll give it a go after some of the more daring of the pack step up to the plate:

El amor semeja un árbol: se inclina por su propio peso, arraiga profundamente en todo nuestro ser y a veces sigue verdeciendo en las ruinas de un corazón.
(Victor Hugo)

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 29, 2008, 1:18 PM

Post #23 of 24 (9176 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Excelente

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Yes, Pepe Aguilar is a very "old school" mariachi type. I like his voice better than his father's because it's so smooth and expressive, plus his songs are very romantic. Andrea Bocelli also sings beautifully.

The new quote you've given us. Where do you get these? I like them. I'll go ahead and take a shot at it, call me daring if you will, but no tengo vergüenza...

El amor semeja un árbol: se inclina por su propio peso, arraiga profundamente en todo nuestro ser y a veces sigue verdeciendo en las ruinas de un corazón.

Love is like a tree: it leans under its own weight, its roots penetrate deeply into our being, and at times (when least expected) it sends out new shoots in a broken heart.

Oscar2

Sep 29, 2008, 3:05 PM

Post #24 of 24 (9168 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Excelente

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I like yours because it inspires a similar take with only the slightest of difference, if any. Where I get these little treasures es secreto! Cuchara y cuchara te los doy para preservar algo mágico. Laugh

Like a tree, so is love: it grows and under its weight it leans and the deepness of its roots gives new life to a broken heart.