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jerezano

Sep 1, 2008, 7:49 AM

Post #1 of 22 (8179 views)

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Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Hello all,

What does the following Spanish article on Snakes in a Tokyo apartment tell us English speakers?

TOKIO, Japón

La policía japonesa arrestó a un hombre que vivía en su apartmento del centro del capital con 51 serpientes venanosas entre ellas cobras y una Mamba Negra africana de 1.90 metros de largo.

Según un reporte de la agencia de noticias Kyodo, los agentes descubrieron la peligrosa colección cuando Nobusaku Kashiwagi de 41 años de edad , se vio obligado a llamar el mes pasado a una ambulancia tras ser mordida por una de sus mascotas cuando iba a darle de comer.

Kashiwagi, quien es empleado del puerto, permaneció hasta este miercoles en un centro asistencial para recuperarse de la letal mordida.

La policía esperó que saliera del hospital para detenerlo por violar la ley de protección de animales.

Hasta el momento se desconoce por qué tenía las serpientes y cómo las obtuvo.
["Sol de Zacatecas" página 6C, 29 de agosto de 2008]

Have fun with the translation. Sr. Quevedo aquí tienes la oportunidad de practicar y tal vez mejorar tu inglés. Los otros de nosotros que lean el español podemos determinar tan bueno es nuestro entendimiento del español.

Hasta luego. jerezano.

morgaine7

Sep 1, 2008, 3:28 PM

Post #2 of 22 (8143 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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TOKYO, Japan

The Japanese police arrested a man who lived in his apartment in the center of the capital with 51 poisonous snakes, among them cobras and an African Black Mamba 1.90 meters long.

According to a report from the news agency Kyodo, agents discovered the dangerous collection when Nobusaku Kashiwagi, 41, was forced to call an ambulance last month after being bitten by one of his pets when he was feeding it.

Kashiwagi, who is employed by the port, stayed in an asssistance center until this Wednesday to recover from the lethal bite.

The police waited until he got out of the hospital to arrest him for violating the animal protection law.

To date it is unknown why he kept the snakes or how he obtained them.

*************

(Maybe this is a little imprecise, but I was trying to do it without looking anything up.)

Kate

jerezano

Sep 2, 2008, 7:22 AM

Post #3 of 22 (8124 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Hello,

Kate gets 4 stars **** for her translation of the interesting Snake article.

She mentions in passing one of the problems in translation. Should the translator make a literal word for word translation or should the translator grab the context and the feeling of the work?

Now Kate went directly to the grab the context answer. I myself always do a word-for-word translation and then try to grab the context and the feeling in my final translation. So for me it is a two step process.

How do the rest of us work? Did any of you try working on this problem? Why didn't we see your work? How can all of us help you in your Spanish if we can't see your problems? And why didn't we hear from Sr. Quevedo? Doesn't he feel that perhaps his English needs a bit of help too?

And the final question: Are these things worth working on? Why? Why not?

jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on Sep 2, 2008, 7:25 AM)

morgaine7

Sep 2, 2008, 8:56 AM

Post #4 of 22 (8111 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Sr. Jerezano, thank you for the kind words. Those are interesting questions. You're right, I tend to go directly for substance. This may be because I am a beginner and aiming primarily for comprehension. For me, such exercises are worthwhile because reading in Spanish is an internal process that doesn't normally involve translation. Writing it down forces me to think about how I might explain the material to someone else in English as opposed to just making sense of it myself.

Kate

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 2, 2008, 2:14 PM

Post #5 of 22 (8093 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Literal meaning is always important when translating, but perhaps more important are the subtle implications and the cultural meanings of each word. It goes far beyond realizing that embarazada does not mean "embarrassed" in English. A truly skillful translation captures the heart of what's translated by creating something that sounds like it was written by a native speaker of the language (in this case, English) while remaining true to the original.

To really do a good job translating, you need to understand the culture of a language's speakers as well as the language itself. That way you can "translate" things that aren't really translatable because some grammatical features don't exist in the second language. Like word endings in Spanish, which make the language so expressive. English doesn't have the equivalent of enojadísimo, but "furious" is a better translation than "very angry." In the same way, mi vida as a form of personal address might be better translated as "sweetheart" or "darling" because English speakers understand the feeling attached to those words, while they aren't used to referring to anyone as "my life."

Jerezano, you asked for it, so you got it. My two cents. As for your other question, esto sí vale la pena porque uno, los artículos son interesantes, y dos, es bueno practicar. La práctica hace al maestro. Saludos.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 2, 2008, 2:25 PM

Post #6 of 22 (8090 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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What does this tell us English speakers?--¡Hay mucha gente desquiciada en este mundo! Ahi les va la versión mía.

Japanese police arrested a man who was living in his apartment in downtown Tokyo with a collection of 51 poisonous snakes, including numerous cobras and an African black mamba that measured 1.90 meters in length.

According to a report from the Kyoto news agency, agents discovered the dangerous collection last month when 41-year-old Nobusaku Koshiwagi was forced to call the ambulance after being bitten by one of his pets while attempting to feed it.

Kashiwagi, who works at the port, remained in a rehabilitation center until Wednesday to recover from the potentially lethal bite.

Police waited until he was released from the hospital to arrest him for violation of animal protection laws.

It is not clear why Kashiwagi kept the snakes or how he obtained them.

Oscar2

Sep 2, 2008, 9:03 PM

Post #7 of 22 (8056 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Quote

To really do a good job translating, you need to understand the culture of a language's speakers as well as the language itself.

The spoken word of Mexican romanticism culturally can carry with it a certain charm which easily can touch the soul, as intended. It uses phrases such as: Tengo tantas ganas conocer te para contarte de las flores. In English, I believe it could be said: “I have such a great need to know you, so I can sing to you of the flowers.

The last interpreted sentence above just doesn’t get it. But culturally it can be said in such a way as to charm the birds out of the trees.

Samples of such cultural passages abound by some on this forum which can can charm a cobra into giving you a gentle hug. Laugh

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Sep 2, 2008, 9:05 PM)

jerezano

Sep 3, 2008, 7:53 AM

Post #8 of 22 (8039 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Hello Oscar2,

You wrote: >>Tengo tantas ganas conocer te para contarte de las flores.<<

I believe you made an error with contarte instead of cantarte. Contarte means to tell you about---cantarte means to sing to you about.

The sentence itself, as you point out is a hard one to translate.

Literally I believe the sentence says something like: I have so much desire in meeting you that I will sing to you songs of flowers. Quevedo would know better how to get the liteal word-for-word tranlation.

So to capture the author's meaning and tone I would translate the sentence more like:

Meeting you has made me so happy that I will sing to you songs of love.

Now as you point out I don't like that translation. I would need to think quite a bit of time how to say it more poetically.

Hasta luego. jerezano

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 3, 2008, 9:01 AM

Post #9 of 22 (8031 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Tengo tantas ganas de conocerte para cantarte de las flores.

I long to meet you so I can sing to you of the flowers.

quevedo

Sep 3, 2008, 11:49 AM

Post #10 of 22 (8017 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Víboras venenosas

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Excellent translation, my English would say, were it good enough to produce an opinion.

A minor detail. Is Nobusaku a gentleman or a lady? Let’s see: “La policía japonesa arrestó a un hombre […]”, but then, “[…] tras ser mordida por una de sus mascotas […]. A man would have been mordido, not mordida, by his pet.

Trying to be not too literal, perhaps I’d say “[…] an employee at the port […]”, or maybe, “[…] a port employee […]” instead of “[…] who is employed by the port […]. Help me with this one, my good English speaking friends.

Saludos nada venenosos,

Quevedo

quevedo

Sep 3, 2008, 11:54 AM

Post #11 of 22 (8015 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Oh, yes

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My English needs improving. Indeed!

I've been a little too busy these past couple of days; that's all, amigo Jerezano.

Un saludo cordial,

Quevedo

(This post was edited by quevedo on Sep 4, 2008, 9:46 AM)

Oscar2

Sep 3, 2008, 11:54 AM

Post #12 of 22 (8015 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Quote

Now as you point out I don't like that translation. I would need to think quite a bit of time how to say it more poetically.

Jerezano, I agree. Culturally, inbred by it’s very nature, poeticism and the words which put it together is the simplest of natural symbolism, Latin’s have enjoyed since who knows when.

Many have said that Latin is truly the language of love with softer subtle references to that around us which bring the kind of meaning and emotion bred by familiarity. Cantarte de las flores symbolically does relate to the warmth given when you are held in its beauty.

Los cielos y las estrellas me hablan de tus besos. I hesitate to convey its translation.

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Sep 3, 2008, 12:38 PM)

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 3, 2008, 12:39 PM

Post #13 of 22 (8004 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Even the sky and the stars remember your kisses (and remind me of/tell me about them). The part in parenthesis, stated in Spanish, is better left implied in English.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 3, 2008, 12:46 PM

Post #14 of 22 (8003 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Víboras venenosas

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Está claro que Nobusaku es un hombre, como dice la primera línea: "La policía japonesa arrestó a un hombre". "Mordida" ha de ser un simple error tipográfico.

And yes, "port employee" is better than "who is employed by the port." The more concise the better, in journalism. I translated it as "who works at the port" because if the article were written in English, it would have been better to specify which port he worked at or what he did there. That was my attempt to make up for lack of information in the original!

quevedo

Sep 3, 2008, 12:57 PM

Post #15 of 22 (7999 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Por supuesto

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Typo, of course. That was the point.

Gracias y saludos,

Quevedo

jerezano

Sep 3, 2008, 1:07 PM

Post #16 of 22 (7998 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Por supuesto

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Hola,

I have to blushingly admit that the typo was mine, not the newspapers.

jerezano

Oscar2

Sep 3, 2008, 1:10 PM

Post #17 of 22 (7997 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Los cielos y las estrellas me hablan de tus besos. I hesitate to convey its translation.

Okay, since we’re trying to get close to a translation, how about: The stars in the heavens speak of your lips embracing my heart. Personally, I still like the short Latin touch version.

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 3, 2008, 1:18 PM

Post #18 of 22 (7994 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Nice. I like "the stars in the heavens," but the part about your lips embracing my heart doesn't work for me. I see a giant pair of lips trying to swallow the heart from anatomy class!

Saludos.

morgaine7

Sep 3, 2008, 2:06 PM

Post #19 of 22 (7990 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Víboras venenosas

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Muchas gracias, Sr. Quevedo. I agree that my version of "quien es empleado del puerto" is awkward. Either of your two suggestions would be more natural in English. But normally, as Sergio Gomez mentions, one would specify his profession ("a cargo inspector") or his employer ("a Port Authority employee"), and that information is missing.

Thanks to all of you for the lesson!

Kate

Oscar2

Sep 4, 2008, 9:09 AM

Post #20 of 22 (7969 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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I see a giant pair of lips trying to swallow the heart from anatomy class!

Sergiogomez, your not only funny but talk about vivid imaginations, I kind of reluctantly offer an alternative too: lips caressing ones heart with “lips touching ones soul.” But then again that which gave life to lips swallowing hearts in your anatomy class runs the risk of lips touching the soles on the bottom of your shoes. Laugh

As you’ve mentioned and I agree, maybe in some instances, I should just leave out the interpretations, which some, such as yourself is much better at and resign myself too just: Los cielos y las estrellas me hablan de tus besos.

Incidentally, welcome aboard, you’re either a native or well versed because your translations are not only very good, but talent looms in your corner… Kudo’s!

sergiogomez / Moderator

Sep 4, 2008, 6:26 PM

Post #21 of 22 (7947 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Viboras--Snakes (Poisonous ones at that! Ouch! )

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Thanks for the compliment, Oscar2. Translating can be lots of fun, but as you mention, there are some things that really sound best in the original language.

Al cielo le robé una estrella,
al prado, una rosa tan bella
y al tiempo le pedí un momento
contigo, para poderte amar.

jerezano

Sep 11, 2008, 8:23 AM

Post #22 of 22 (7832 views)

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Re: [sergiogomez] A long way from snakes

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Hello:

Al cielo le robé una estrella,
al prado, una rosa tan bella
y al tiempo le pedí un momento
contigo, para poderte amar.

From heaven I stole a star,
From the meadow a rose as beautiful
and from time I beg a moment with you
to pledge my eternal love.

jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on Sep 11, 2008, 8:30 AM)