MexConnect.com Forums: General: Living, Working, Retiring: Your low income/FM3 experiences: Page 2

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robrt8

Apr 30, 2008, 6:59 PM

Post #26 of 49 (2181 views)

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Re: [jl1] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I too am enjoying this discussion. I've got my own $.02, but if I suggested one could live on $900/mo. in SMA I'd have to answer to it.
(hey, I'm not talking about living in the Centro in a Colonial mansion)
I did post about this in the previous, similar thread.
Señor de Jerez, I really enjoyed your post. It's very touching.

kwschopf

May 1, 2008, 2:11 PM

Post #27 of 49 (2142 views)

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Re: [jl1] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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My goodness, I'm not sure I want to venture into this discussion, but do want to add one perspective. We have a gringo friend who is a teacher of English here in Bucerias. His salary is about $7500 pesos per month. His rent, in a very nice apartment (no AC) that I would not hesitate to live in, is $2500 pesos a month. He lives carefully and does some teaching on the side, but he is doing OK. He does not live in a mud hut at the dump and he does not find it necessary to sell tamales. MsKitty - don't give up. There may be ways to supplement your income - can you cook? Draw? Paint? You could start a small catering business for gringos...you could sell a few paintings once in awhile (I do - not enough to live on, but it does buy some extras for us). There are online enterprises that you might be able to do part-time - we have another friend who does technical writing on line. We'll be seeing you soon, and we'll brainstorm about it. Just don't feel discouraged before you even begin.........

La Isla

May 1, 2008, 3:22 PM

Post #28 of 49 (2131 views)

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Re: [kwschopf] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I'll add my two-cents worth even though I live in big, bad Mexico City, unlike most of the MexConnect posters. My monthly Social Security check comes to $800 US. It covers my rent ($3500 MN), utilities, and basic expenses including food, transportation, and modest entertainment costs (movies, concerts, museums). I don't have a car or a high-speed internet connection or pets. I live modestly, eat out quite a bit at local eateries in my neighborhood, and enjoy my life here. I do some English teaching and occasional translating work and use this income for medical expenses and visits back to the States. I would estimate that my monthly take-home income is around $1100 US.

thriftqueen

May 1, 2008, 4:11 PM

Post #29 of 49 (2122 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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In memory of Andee Carlson who unfortunately passed away recently I would like to suggest that you read her entire blog. http://mylifeinchacala.blogspot.com/

From all her blogs I would describe Andee as a happy, well adjusted woman who lived quite simply on limited resources it seemed (by her own writings). She made such a different in many Mexican lives. Oh, that some of us could live so simply and do as much good without the bickering over what one can or can't afford. We are all different in our needs.

In Reply To

Sorry, I just hit reply without thought as to who got the Subject: Re. This was not directed to La Isla, but to everyone posting on this thread.

(This post was edited by thriftqueen on May 1, 2008, 4:17 PM)

Gringal

May 2, 2008, 8:31 AM

Post #30 of 49 (2077 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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For some down-to-it information on "living on Social Security", check out <fallinginlovewithsanmiguel.com>. From regular reading of this site, I've deduced that the two women living there are living quite well. I'm guessing each of them has about $1200 per month in Social Security, but on this, they've managed to rent a nice apartment, dine out frequently and take some trips NOB. However, two can live "as cheap as one" if they are sharing the same living quarters. Also, San Miguel is not a place I'd recommend for anyone on a tight budget. Neither is the Lake Chapala area, though I have seen places for rent under $300 per month advertised in the area.

I'm hearing some extreme views on this thread. I'd say, yes, you can, but it's going to be very tight. If you can find your way to buying a small place (and yes, they are out there, even in the Lake Chapala area) for under $50K, then the income requirements are reduced by half. (Beg, borrow etc. enters the equation here).
It sounds like you're used to praticing the small economies.

I would come on the FMT and look around. The other question is: Could you survive on that amount of income in the U.S.? Even harder, I would think, than in Mexico. The difference would be that you can find supplemental work in the U.S., but in Mexico....much more difficult to do so because of the laws restricting foreigners taking jobs that could be done by a Mexican citizen. Check out the teaching English possibilities, though. They pay peanuts, but ground peanuts make a good sandwich.

mskitty

May 2, 2008, 8:59 AM

Post #31 of 49 (2069 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Thanks for your thoughts, Gringal. Sharing a place is something I have considered, if I should run across a compatible roommate.

I've lived on tight budgets my entire life -- although this past year has been a rather extravagant one for me in many ways -- and I've lived well in the process. I've always paid a disproportionate amount of income in rent, because I like to live in nicer places, so I'm accustomed to living on what's leftover. I have no debt, no car, no expensive hobbies, no pets, no medical issues, no family to visit NoB, and for the most part, I prefer to prepare my own meals rather than eat out. I entertain myself quite well and don't need to go out for this purpose on any regular basis, and would rather walk on the beach for entertainment than to to a movie or most other forms of entertainment.

I could live on $900 even here in Eugene -- I don't need to belong to an expensive, private athletic club, or live in my luxury high-rise, or eat expensive organic foods. I won't deny that I've enjoyed all of it, but I don't need it. In fact, I've already resigned the club and am cutting back on some of my more expensive food choices, and I don't miss them. The rent has to stay because moving now doesn't make sense. It wouldn't take a lot for me to cut my expenses down to that level. Other places, perhaps non-college towns where the rents may be lower, would be easier, but there really are few warmer climates in this country that appeal to me. It would be tight, yes, but doable.

I appreciate all the views, as they all give me something to think about and put into the equation.
Kitty

(This post was edited by mskitty on May 2, 2008, 9:11 AM)

JohnnyBoy

May 2, 2008, 10:32 AM

Post #32 of 49 (2045 views)

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Re: [travisdyer] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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It appears this thread is starting to die its natural death, as all threads eventually should. And it is not my intention to prolong that process with this final word of mine on this matter.

I regret than my observations, comments, and opinions have caused some people to question my good sense and my understanding and evaluation of this topic. I suspect that virtually everyone who has chimed in knows more about it than I do. And I will always be the first to admit that I could be wrong. Just that in this case, on the core issue, I do not think I am.

My use of hyperbole and irony has not succeeded in its rhetorical effect in my postings on this topic, nor in others. I think our MexConnect community is quite literalist and conservative and I need to remember that when I express myself. I have made a near-mid-year resolution to be far more direct in my postings from here on out. I admire Rolly's direct and no nonsense approach and would like to follow his example.

I also want to admit, or clarify, that my suegros' house has been fixed up and upgraded and added on to since its humble beginnings. They do live reasonably well on about $500 per month + food sales + family support + government subsidies (100% of electricity, among others, that are not available to anyone except senior Mexican citizens) + some sort of monthly support for the piece of land the suegro does not farm. And it is no where near a dump (that was some of my hyperbole).

I wish Ms Kitty good luck in her adventure and search for a place and a plan to live in Mexico. I only hope that close, thorough, and accurate observations and evaluation of the realities and her own good reason will bring her to a happy and sustainable decision.

Gringal

May 2, 2008, 1:40 PM

Post #33 of 49 (2017 views)

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Re: [JohnBleazard] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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John,
I don't think the problem is with the "literalist and/or conservative" members of this forum. Many of those who post for the first time here are not familiar with the different personas who constitute the "regulars". They are cautious, and sometimes words are taken literally because the reader does not have a way of knowing whether the source of the information is being serious....or not. We don't have the advantage of body language when we're stuck with the written word alone. We can't wink, shrug, frown or smile.

IMO, it's important to be as clear and direct as possible with newbie posters. They need information. The move they contemplate is life-altering and usually a bit terrifying. They need our helping hands, or mice. I can't begin to thank those who made my Mexico move easier with their patience. Especially Saint Rolly. A good act to follow.

bournemouth

May 2, 2008, 3:37 PM

Post #34 of 49 (1997 views)

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Re: [mskitty] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Kitty - don't forget to factor in something for health insurance costs. Yes, you can get Mexican Government insurance, IMSS, at a reasonable cost but it takes you three years to be wholly established under the program and some pre-existing conditions may block you from ever having it. Private insurance, on the whole, needs to be bought before you are 65. Pre-existing conditions can cause problems there too. Day to day costs are comparatively inexpensive but anything serious can run up a bill very rapidly, which must be paid. If, heaven forbid, you break a hip or have a heart attack, you can't wait to be taken back to the US/Canada for attention.

wendy devlin

May 2, 2008, 6:02 PM

Post #35 of 49 (1967 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Seems that the various posters have touched upon many of the variables to be considered, in regards to 'low income' experiences in Mexico, both national and extrajerno, personal and associative(family and/or friends)

Years ago used to be amazed at what seemed to me, the large monthly incomes that many people insisted was necessary to live la vida mexicana. However experience, both personal and through other people's stories have since tempered that view. Need a lot more monthly moola now then did, ten or twenty years ago.

These days, would advise a newcomer that in general, their new adventure might have several to many hidden expenses that not actually having lived in the country, at this point, may they might not be able to imagine. bournemouth touched on the medical insurance topic and there are other topics.

There are quite a number of 'hard-luck' stories out there, these days, of people, that threw caution to the wind. They did not have either monetary or social(networks of friends/family) safety 'nets' in case, their proposed 'economic plan' failed. Some crash and burn. Others crash and need fellow extrajernos to bail them out. Or have to leave the country, having taken, a big financial or other 'hit'.

Call the cash reserves, 'mad money' if you like:)
Like money/ ready capital on hand, should you get 'mad', or go 'mad'.
Or simply change your mind about your plan.

(Like the coin, parents got kids to carry in their sock. Just in case, the date goes wrong or a crisis situation develops and you needed to call a cab to get back home.

Perhaps a simplistic analogy for these times...
However at 55, still carrying that coin.
Symbolically and on a practical level.

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on May 2, 2008, 6:08 PM)

roni_smith

May 2, 2008, 6:31 PM

Post #36 of 49 (1957 views)

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Re: [JohnBleazard] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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John you must just really enjoy drama and drawing attention to yourself from time to time.

That's all right. I believe that there were some dollar numbers provided in that Retire in Mexico on SS thread. I am confident that it was around $2500 plus or minus a little bit, in case you missed it, don't remember it, or it was not there.

I have heard from retirees in Merida, asking them if it could be done on $2500 a month for a couple (those are US dollars). One woman, down there with her husband said she would feel very rich with that amount. Others said, yeah, we have a house with a pool on the beach that we pay $900 a month for, go out to eat a couple times a week, are both drinkers and smokers and we do fine on $2500 a month.

How much are you and your partner living on? How much rent to you pay? Are you saving any from your monthly income? How much do you travel? How much are you spending on groceries, and where do you shop?

I am sure we would all like to know
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog

JohnnyBoy

May 2, 2008, 8:52 PM

Post #37 of 49 (1930 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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No, actually, I do not enjoy the drama and attention.

I don't claim to know anything whatsoever about Mexican economy. The Mexican economy has nothng to do with the issue at hand as far as I can tell.

My finances are not relevant to the question/discussion.

From the beginning, both this time and in the other thread, my intention was to advise a person that it is not possible to live in Mexico on $900 a month, when that is all there is.

And I stand by that. Anyone who claims otherwise must not be sticking to the facts and details provided.

There has been other anecdotal evidence provided to the contrary.

The lady involved here, Ms Kitty, will sort it all out.

She asked if it can be done, and I say "no." And I have given her, in private messages, clear explanations why I say "no."

(This post was edited by JohnBleazard on May 2, 2008, 9:14 PM)

mskitty

May 2, 2008, 9:02 PM

Post #38 of 49 (1929 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Wendy,thanks for your input. This response is actually directed at everyone who has responded to this thread, and I thank all of you.

I hope this doesn't sound defensive, because I certainly don't feel that way, but I do feel a need to assure everyone that there is no need to worry about me in this adventure. I've been called crazy more than once, have called myself crazy more than once, but nobody has ever called me insane or called me a fool. I tend to look into all the corners and find out every fact [and anecdote] that's available. I would not consider a move like this without learning everything I can -- hence the questions with my posts here, to be followed up by a fact-finding trip in June and an extended trip next winter. If I find it won't work, I'll return to the US. While my income will be relatively low, I will have financial reserves and empty, high-limit credit cards for emergency use and to get me back to Oregon. It's just airfare. I'm not moving a household until and unless everything is in place.

I'm past 65, but far from a frail old lady. I've been something of a vagabond and/or gypsy for the past 40 years, making many, many moves over those years, often rather impulsively, often up or down the west coast, once to Reno and once more to Georgia before returning west 12 years ago. Since that return I've lived in four towns in Oregon, the Napa Valley and the San Juan Islands of Washington State. More often than not, I've picked up household and moved with only a few hundred bucks in my pocket and no job awaiting me. It's something I have a knack for and a love/hate relationship with. I bring this up simply to illustrate that I'm not a novice at this vagabond thing or at doing it on a short shoestring. On the other hand, I do realize that moving to a different country is a different experience with different possible pitfalls, but before I do it I will learn about those pitfalls, run the numbers and in the end I will be honest with myself regarding what I can or cannot do. I realize it's not the same as picking up and moving across this country [which I'd do in a heartbeat if the spirit moved me], nor is it the same as doing it in my younger years. Hence the research and planning and questions. In the process, I expect to have a lot of fun enjoying the Mexican sunshine.

So -- thanks for all of your opinions and experiences and advice. I will add it all to my research and use it carefully as I continue forward with this adventure. Kitty

RickS

May 2, 2008, 9:18 PM

Post #39 of 49 (1923 views)

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Re: [mskitty] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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mskitty, you are probably wondering how your question has raised such a turmoil! It's just the nature of this (and other forums) and people in general. Mostly they are well-intended. Sometimes folks with different opinions find it necessary to discredit another's opinion to make their's valid. Sadly.

You have demonstrated that you are no novice at this moving thing, are going about it in a perfect way and will land on your feet no matter what. I just love it when I see this demonstrated (not to use that word more than once in two sentences!).

Anyway I hope we can bring this thread to a close. Your SURELY have enough info to get a good feeling for your chances of success. And you will be successful!

Enjoy your trip and your adventures. You'll love it I predict.

mskitty

May 2, 2008, 9:29 PM

Post #40 of 49 (1921 views)

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Re: [RickS] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Thanks, Rick. I was a little surprised at the furor, but I've been on other boards of other natures and you're right, it's not all that unusual when you bring together such a wide variety of people from such varied walks of life. I also recognize everyone's good intentions, and am grateful for them.

I'm ready to bring the thread to a close, too. I've learned a lot, now I just need the on-site experience. 36 days til the adventure begins -- but who's counting!

Kitty

(This post was edited by mskitty on May 2, 2008, 9:34 PM)

sandykayak

May 8, 2008, 2:48 PM

Post #41 of 49 (1810 views)

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Re: [mskitty] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I think we're going to see a lot more of this topic. Jus returned from a week Lakeside, during which I met two couples - one with $2,000/month income and the other with $1,800 - both paying USD $600/mo in rent.

One of the couples (don't know about the other), is a victim of the housing crisis NOB...homeowner's insurance went up 300%, tried unsuccessfully to sell house for 3 years, opted to run with pension when rumors started that pension plan might be remodeled or eliminated.

Many baby boomers (myself included!) who thought their US homes would provide the nest egg are stuck NoB and unable to sell their houses.

FORTUNATELY, I took a gamble in 03 and put $1,000 deposit (preconstruction) on a house in El Parque (San Antonio Tlay., Jalisco)...got financing for 3 years (was rented most of the time, but I took in a boarder NoB to pay the mortgage in Mex during the lean times!). Made last payment in Dec. 07!! YAHOO!!!

But, I will have to continue working cos houses ain't selling in Florida!!
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

johanson

May 8, 2008, 4:34 PM

Post #42 of 49 (1785 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Thank God you did what you did Sandy. I too lucked out. Although I have owned lakeside now for almost 11 years. My business partner and I sold out our real estate interests in Seattle in the Summer of 2007. So I have a little reserve now which I am using to remodel my older home in Ajijic.

When I ask my workers here in Ajijic about whether or not the US economic downturn has impacted them, about half say things are the same as before while the other half suggest that things might be slightly slower.

scubabride

May 8, 2008, 10:42 PM

Post #43 of 49 (1745 views)

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Re: [jl1] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I just had to jump in on this one. I currently recieve $1035 net SSDI and I do just fine in Mexico..and I even live in what is considered to be an area more expensive then most...Cozumel.

Rent 3500 MP = $320-350 USD
elec 250 MP Using Floor and ceiling fans but AC on rare occations
water 50
gas 100 cooking and hot water
gas 100 for my scooter
650 ciggerrettes
1200 groceries Fresh fruit and veggies and meat I use the Mercado, ISST for other
250 internet
250 pet food and supplies
500 cable and local phone
150 cell ph
170 Vonage 500 minutes

total 7170 mp at todays rate of 10.5 that is $683 leaving me $353 which increases to $534 next month.

My house is a 2 bedroom home with Living, dining, and kitchen. Covered patio and small backyard in a safe area.

I enjoy the beach for free, entertainment in the park every weekend again for free. Dinner out several times a month at inexpensive but good establishments. Inexpensive movies or DVD rentals. I spend time doing volunteer work and enjoying the company of friends. I also set aside $50-75 a month for trips back to the States and monitor the internet for hot fares.

I have a small amount in the bank for Medical emergencies, but so far a bout with Pnumonia which cost me $35 USD for MD and about $100 USD for 5 days of 2 x a day respirtory TX at the Hospital and $15 Rx has been my only med expense.

I have Medicare Part A, not part B, I also have Veterans medical care for scheduled and routine care and free Meds. I schedual tests, needed TX and checkups for my return trips.

I have a great life, less stress, better health and diet, and fewer bills. Could I live this well back home in Fl, or near my Kids in Atlanta, TX, or Vt...Heck NO.

By the way...I even help with extras for a few young nEIGHBOR CHILDREN.

morgaine7

May 9, 2008, 7:14 AM

Post #44 of 49 (1719 views)

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Re: [scubabride] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I live in La Paz, BCS, and my living expenses are similar to Scubabride's. Many people consider the Baja peninsula to be expensive, but from others' reports, it doesn't seem that much different from the rest of México. We pay only 10% IVA on goods and services as opposed to 15% on the mainland, and that adds up.

The big difference is owning my home. I bought the house and paid for about half of the extensive remodeling while still working. It's small but in a nice, mostly Mexican residential neighborhood near downtown and the bay, with two bedrooms, two baths, patios, and a small swimming pool in back. I have ceiling fans (no AC) and no TV or cell phone at present, though I do have Prodigy Infinitum. No regular domestic help, just occasional gardening and help with heavy cleaning. Car is an '87 Suzuki Samurai (Mexican-plated) which uses about 200 pesos of gas a month. I fly to the US twice a year to visit family, mainly because my mom can't travel. Otherwise, no ties or expenses there.

I'm not eligible for Social Security until August '09, but it will probably be around $1000 US. I've withdrawn retirement plan funds to finish the house and to live on during the interim. My biggest ongoing expense is medical insurance, which runs close to $350/month, but I'm afraid to give it up. If it weren't for that, my budget (including pets, pool, and bad habits) would probably average about $700-$800 US.

For the FM3, our INM office asks for three months of bank statements. I've been timing transfers to my local account so that they're reflected on those statements. As a homeowner, I believe I could qualify for FM2 and may try to switch next fall at renewal time, although I haven't inquired yet.

Can everyone do this? Maybe not. I hadn't planned to retire early and would be a lot more concerned if I didn't have the medical coverage and the backup IRA. But it's working fine so far. The coming year will be lean, but once I start getting SS I figure I'll be in good shape.

Kate

bournemouth

May 9, 2008, 7:20 AM

Post #45 of 49 (1717 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Kate - don't forget that as a homeowner, your local immigration office may, if they so choose, reduce your income requirements by 50%. An FM2 has higher income requirements than an FM3.

morgaine7

May 9, 2008, 7:43 AM

Post #46 of 49 (1709 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Thanks, Bournemouth. I didn't make it clear that the homeowner factor is the only reason I think I could qualify for the FM2, at least at present. "If they so choose" is the essential thing to keep in mind. If they advise against applying now, I'll wait until next year when I start getting the SS income.

Kate

esperanza

May 9, 2008, 8:35 AM

Post #47 of 49 (1692 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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Yesterday in Morelia, my partner attempted to apply for an FM-2, changing from her three-year-old FM-3. INAMI informed her that she could not apply for the FM-2 until she had held her FM-3 for five years.

Each INAMI office interprets things differently, so your mileage may vary.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

jl1

May 9, 2008, 11:18 AM

Post #48 of 49 (1666 views)

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Re: [scubabride] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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I'm not sure why you had to "jump on" my response. All I was trying to say was that people do what they need to do to live according to their lifestyle and needs. Obviously, needs can differ widely. The region one chooses makes a huge difference in how one is able to deal with daily living. I was watching a popular t.v. show last night that featured a couple's search for a home to purchase in the Dallas area. You could not find a tear-down in a bad neighborhood in my city for what these people were going to pay for what I considered to be a mansion! I understand that Cozumel is more expensive than most places in Mexico, but you couldn't find a 2 bedroom place in my area in for less than $350.00 per week. In fact, the average vacation rental is about $200.00 DOLLARS a night! Of course, there are ways around the system and certainly there are bargains out there, but rents and home prices are always higher in tourist towns and desired vacation areas. A good analogy would be, let's say you built a 2000 sq. ft. house in San Francisco. That house in a medium priced neighborhood would sell for at least a million dollars. Build the same house fifty miles inland and it would sell for about 200,000 dollars. I understand what you are saying about a simpler life, time on the beach, less stress, etc. I can't say I disagree. I can remember living quite happily for a week on what would now amount to my weekly latte bill. I am one of those people who will be "giving up" a lot in return for a simpler--and probably healthier--lifestyle. Speaking of health, do you realize that your cigarette bill is roughly 25 percent of your rent? Sorry, couldn't help myself there. Bottom line--I love hearing stories like yours. I think the entire Western world could learn a lesson from you.

scubabride

May 9, 2008, 5:21 PM

Post #49 of 49 (1634 views)

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Re: [jl1] Your low income/FM3 experiences

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JL It was not you that I was really responding to, it was John who said NO it was impossable to live on a small budget..lol...I am living proof that it can be done, and altho siple, I still have an enjoyable life with outside activities.

And the ciggerrette remark is well deserved, I could do alot more with that $65 a month and also feel better. I am trying to quit, but it ain't easy. But intend on getting "THE PATCH" on my final checkup before heading back to the Island next week.

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