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husker

May 14, 2007, 6:37 AM

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estado

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I just heard this today.

Han estado enfermo
They have been sick
Is this used to imply a temporary condition, I guess I just have never heard it.
The estado through me as I would have said
Han enfermado
Rules?

esperanza

May 14, 2007, 11:55 AM

Post #2 of 18 (7174 views)

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Re: [husker] estado

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Han estado enfermos. They have been sick.

Your suggestion, 'Han enfermados', is incorrect for any usage.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

doogie

May 16, 2007, 10:12 AM

Post #3 of 18 (7133 views)

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Re: [husker] estado

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Agree with Esperanza. Also you could say Se han enfermado They have gotten sick.
Doogie,
Tapatío de corazón

quevedo

May 21, 2007, 8:43 AM

Post #4 of 18 (7074 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Estado

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But the suggestion was Han enfermado, and that is correct: They got sick.

Sanos saludos,

Quevedo

husker

May 22, 2007, 8:12 AM

Post #5 of 18 (7045 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Estado

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Gracias Quevedo

Saludo

jerezano

May 22, 2007, 8:19 AM

Post #6 of 18 (7044 views)

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Re: [husker] Estado

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Hello husker,

Be sure and come back to us when you have questions or when you feel you can contribute something to us, your fellow students of Spanish. With this short exchange, we all learned something.

Adiós. jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on May 22, 2007, 8:20 AM)

Blackjack Davie

May 23, 2007, 5:54 PM

Post #7 of 18 (7011 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Estado

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This is a little bit off subject but I couldn't figure out how to start a new thread. Bear with me please, after several years of studying spanish (mostly solo but classes too) I still cannot grasp how to use the object pronouns. I'm serious...sometimes, I can attach them to the infinitive form, but mostly, I am in a quandary in this matter. It seems elementary, at least I have been told this by others, but it puzzles me. Suggestions please. David

jerezano

May 23, 2007, 7:43 PM

Post #8 of 18 (6999 views)

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Re: [Blackjack Davie] Estado

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Hello Blackjack Davie

You asked a very good question. When can I attach object pronouns to the verb?

Sr. Quevedo can give us the rules, but I, too, don't know those rules. One thing I have observed is that reading back in medieval and colonial times, it seems as if the authors of those times did a whale of a lot more attaching than we do now.

First, as I understand it, it is always correct to use the object(both direct and indirect) pronouns before the verb.

Second, one may attach the object pronouns to the infinitive form of the verb.

Third one may attach (and usually does so) the object pronouns to a command form of the verb.

Fourth one may attach the object pronouns to the gerund (the ing form--iendo, ando). This is usually a matter of personal preference.

Now everybody, please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

I haven't given any examples for two reasons:
1. I can't think tonight.
2. Think up your own examples.

Adiós. jerezano.

Blackjack Davie

May 24, 2007, 5:20 AM

Post #9 of 18 (6990 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Estado

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Jerezano, thanks for your quick response. The use of the object pronouns has perplexed me from the beginning of my studies. On my first trip to Guanajuato, after two weeks in an immersion class, I felt that I was moving along pretty well but then, along came these pronouns and my learning came to an abrupt halt. I am sure that I have erected a psychological barrier here but I would certainly like to move past it. All replies/examples will be appreciated.

husker

May 24, 2007, 7:41 AM

Post #10 of 18 (6978 views)

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Re: [Blackjack Davie] Estado

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http://www.spanishprograms.com I have purchased their verb module with seems to be clearing up some things.
As I understand the pronoun can go be for or after the verb and when using two verbs I goes after the last verb.
Perro qien sabe? No, lo say seguo.

husker

May 24, 2007, 12:34 PM

Post #11 of 18 (6967 views)

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Re: [Blackjack Davie] Estado

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http://spanish.about.com/...a/objectpronouns.htm

An other source
Una otra fuente

Blackjack Davie

May 25, 2007, 3:35 PM

Post #12 of 18 (6941 views)

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Re: [husker] Estado

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Husker, thanks for your recommendations. I have checked both sites and I will be spending some time with the second one for sure. David

BrentB

May 27, 2007, 6:18 PM

Post #13 of 18 (6919 views)

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Re: [Blackjack Davie] Estado

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¿Han mejorado?

jerezano

May 27, 2007, 7:59 PM

Post #14 of 18 (6912 views)

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Re: [BrentB] Estado

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Hello BrentB,

You asked:>> ¿Han mejorado?

Of course. If one can say Han infermado, one can say Han mejorado. Now if you were tongue in cheek and asking Blackjack Davie if his friend have improved, he will have to answer that.

Adiós. jerezano.

jerezano

May 27, 2007, 8:06 PM

Post #15 of 18 (6911 views)

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Re: [husker] Estado

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Hello husker,

You said: >>As I understand the pronoun can go be[ ]for[e] or after the verb and when using two verbs I[t] goes after the last verb.<<

Better check again. Usual position of the objects both direct and indirect is before the verb. They can come after the verb and be attached only for the three instances I mentioned above: To the infinitive, to the command, and to the gerund. They never to my understanding stand alone after a verb.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Adiós. jerezano.

husker

May 31, 2007, 6:42 AM

Post #16 of 18 (6879 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Estado

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Jerezano,
No tenga tiempre libre recientemente.

I was never a student of English grammar (hated every part of it), that is probably why I struggle with Spanish.
I do stand corrected, I know that I heard on my verb module lesson but again I was probably short cutting again. When I have time I will listen again and shared what I heard ( even when I'm wrong)

In the sentence above should it start with recientemente o no?
Or is this the right way to express the fact that I haven't had free time recently

jerezano

May 31, 2007, 6:21 PM

Post #17 of 18 (6865 views)

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Re: [husker] Estado

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Hello Husker,

You asked about the following sentence:

No tenga tiempre libre recientemente.

Here in Zacatecas (and elsewhere) we can start with either the no or the recientemente. Depends on what you wish to emphasize, the No or the recientemente.

But notice tenga-- Yo tengo, tú tienes, él ella Ud tiene etc.

Notice too the tiempre which should be tiempo--time

No tengo tiempo libre recientemente.

A few minutes a day is all you need. At least a half hour.

Adiós. jerezano

husker

Jun 1, 2007, 6:32 AM

Post #18 of 18 (6854 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Estado

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Gracias Jerezano,

Nice of you to take the time. I try to listen to my Pimsluer III disc at least half an hour each day . I have an hour and a half commute each way so I try to do something productive. With the Pimsluer I try to learn vocabulary and structure. With a limited vocabulary I struggle but little by little I think I am making some headway.

Saludos