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Bloviator

May 10, 2007, 1:40 PM

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Changing Mexico

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INTRODUCTION - There seems to be some interest in the topic of the changes taking place in Mexico at this time. We seem to have some differences in the rate of change, but I think we can all see a lot of changes in Mexico, in our role in Mexico, in the type of person coming to Mexico, and a lot of other things about Mexico. Some are very positive and some are quite frightening for those of us planning to live out our lives here.

I hope that some of you will add your comments to those that I include below. In doing so, please try to give some idea of the time frame of the changes you are discussing. Obviously, a discussion of Mexico after the 1910 Revolution and Mexico today, would show a lot of differences, but would have little to do with current changes taking place.

PAN, PRI AND GOVERNMENT CHANGE - The most obvious change and the one that has the most potential to really change Mexico is the end of one party rule by the PRI after 70+ years. Though Lazaro Cardenas' son, Cuauhtemoc??, probably really won the Presidential election 14 years ago, but had the election stolen, the election of Vicente Fox and the PAN seven years ago has had a profound influence - though one that is just beginning to emerge.

NAFTA AND IMMIGRATION - Of course, no discussion of changing Mexico can take place without discussing the influence of NAFTA and the timebomb of Mexican immigration to the US and the consequences if that immigration should somehow be reversed and the immigrants sent back to Mexico - massive consequences for both the US and Mexico.

I get brain lock whenever I think of the logistics, cost, and economic and social disruption of trying to relocate 11 million people from the US to Mexico. I think we should turn over a couple of million dollars to each major politician advocating such action and give him/her the task of planning and carrying out the relocation of a thousand or so people. Tom Tancredo gets 100 million and is required to relocate 1 million people.

Incidentally, each of us who has a maid or gardener, or who undertakes a construction project or remodel, or even goes out to dinner here is doing more to keep the border clear than 90% of the Minutemen with all their sound and fury.

AJIJIC IN THE OLD DAYS - If you have not already read it, I urge each of you to read the article starting on page 28 of the Lake Chapala Review for April 2007, written by Mr. H.F. Edwards, it provides a superb first hand look at Lake Chapala in the 1960s??? It is a fascinating account of someone who lived through those days in Ajijic when things were totally different from today. Do not confuse this article with one in the same magazine by another Mr. Edwards that I found to be racist, anti Mexican, and extremely juvenile - Sorry other Mr. Edwards.

If any of you have discussed Ajijic and the goings on at the original Posada with people who lived here back in the '50s, please fill us in. I have had the opportunity to speak with a lovely woman who was part of that scene and her stories of the expat community and the goings on at the Posada back in the '50s is fascinating. It's hard to look at the falling down casitas that exist there today and realize that it was a real Posada (inn) back in those days and the most likely place for travelers to stay and think of the parties that took place there.

GRIDLOCK - Another change, one that I find very frightening, is the rapid development of gridlock in cities such as Mexico, Gueretaro and Puebla just to name a few. I'm very much fearful of the potential damage from this development and the difficulty of doing anything to avoid the problems. Old colonial cities, built for the traffic of the 17th -18th centuries have only a limited amount of potential for change to meet the needs of 21st century traffic.

On the other hand, just in the two + years I have been here, I have seen a good deal of improvement of highways away from the cities. There are two new cuotas on the way from CA/AZ and another will be finished soon. Some roads that were horribly bumpy and pot holed are now quite smooth. I'm amazed at how rapidly repairs can be made. There is a nice new road around the south side of lake near Suhayo that replaces one that was a true menace.

PEOPLE COMING HERE - HF Edwards article highlights the very different type of person who came here in the old days - artists, hippies, adventurers. Now we are adventurous - sort of - retirees, looking for whatever.

There is now a steady stream of people coming South from the US and Canada. It has already had a profound influence on the social and economic structure of towns like SMA and Ajijic and will continue to have major impacts unless there is some catastrophe here that ends the flow. It has also had a profound effect on those of us who are coming here. I'm sure more will come and their migration will have a significant influence on the US and a profound influence on Mexico.

One comment about the whole discussion - please don't make it "how to change Mexico." It is "What changes are taking place in Mexico."

(This post was edited by dlyman6500 on May 10, 2007, 1:44 PM)

jerezano

May 12, 2007, 10:25 AM

Post #2 of 18 (3025 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico

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Hello all residents of the Lake Chapala Region:

Dick Lyman's "Changing Mexico" post is fascinating. I wonder why he has had no responses?

Is it perhaps that the grngos living in the lake area haven't lived there long enough to see any changes? Or is it that life is too hectic to sit down and contemplate--as did our late, lamented (but very much alive and kicking) friend Bubba---the lakeside mode of living?

Be that as it may, let me (not a lakeside resident but a person who first visited Lake Chapala and Ajijic etc way back in the early 1950's) make a few comments in response.

PAN, PRI AND GOVERNMENT CHANGE- Contrary to what my PRI, PRD, and PT friends expected our new PAN president Calderón seems to be doing a very good job. As reported in today's (May 12) "Sol de Zacatecas" (a PRI paper in a PRD state) his popularity poll rating is now at 68% up 13 percentage points since the last poll. Compare that with our own president George W. Bush. But if one reads the political commentaries in the mostly anti-PAN papers, Calderón is doing nothing or if something, that something is always wrong.

NAFTA AND IMMIGRATION These two subjects should not be joined as they are completely separate and distinct. Of course Immigration to the United States is a result of the Mexican Economy, and while the NAFTA affects that Economy, the relationship is not direct. NAFTA has benefited both Mexico and the USA in overall terms. NAFTA has caused serious problems in both countries. In the USA the big problem seems to be Labor. In Mexico the big problem is Agriculture. In those two areas Mexico with its Agricultural industry is encountering real disasters. Mexican labor is benefitting.

As for Immigration to the United States let's say that both countries are well aware of the problem but neither country has or seems to be developing a solution. All the publicity to the contrary.

AJIJIC IN THE OLD DAYS--I know nothing about Ajijic before 1950. Nor can I read the referenced article by A. F Edwards in the Lake Chapala Review of April 2007. It would be interesting to compare my impressions of Ajijic in 1960 with that article, but let me make my comments without that help.

Way back in 1950 Ajijic was dirt in the opinion of the gringos in both Guadalajara (the élite) and of Lake Chapala (upper middle class). Both of those populations were mainly retired military with the American Legion in Guadalajara being the mandatory group to join and with anybody less than officer rank being delegated to a lower class society. But Ajijic! Ajijic was a picturesque rural village to be visited and left, not to be overnighted. It was filled with crazy artists, immoral and debauched dregs of society, thieves, and scam artists, with no restaurants in which to eat, no hotels in which to stay. If one must overnight at the lake then stay in Lake Chapala. As I recall, the reputation of Ajijic as a place to live did not start to take root until the 1980's after the age of the flower children and IP-pee-ays had passed. From that time to now Ajijic has finally acquired the reputation of being the place to live and the people there now consider Lake Chapala as declasé. As for Guadalajara--it is no longer the Gringo élite center of Jalisco as it once was. With so many gringos now in the area it would be hard to determine if there is an élite. Also, whatever happened to the huge, growing, and influential American Society of those times?

GRIDLOCK A perennial problem throughout the world. Not to be solved until the problem of personal tranportation should be solved. But to explain the terrible state of roads within cities compared to the recent and laudable efforts to improve intercity connections. The streets within cities and villages must be funded by the municipio (county governments) with whatever aid they can get from the state and federal governments which is usually a pittance. The intercity highways on the other hand are federally and state funded. And for the past few sexenios those governments have realized that the national and state economies receive real and substantial benefits from improvement of those highways. Enormous amounts (in comparison to the past) of money have been dedicated to those improvements with obvious and observable effects on those economies. That is why a splendid and easily transitable highway can end at the city or village boundary and degenerate into a car wrecking disaster. How to correct such anomalies? I won't even venture, especially since Dick warns us against changing the thread which is observed changes.

Adiós. jerezano.

Bloviator

May 12, 2007, 2:25 PM

Post #3 of 18 (2988 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Changing Mexico

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The only reason I put the topic on the Chapala discussion is that I'm not smart enough to place it elsewhere. It is a topic that might be of interest to people anywhere in Mexico.

Perhapsthat is why there has been so little interest. I thought that others would be interested. There is no doubt that the changes in Mexico will have a profound effect on those of us living here for the next ten to twenty years./

ellijo

May 12, 2007, 3:29 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico

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I moved here from Chantilly VA, the tech corridor of Northern Virginia, about 20 miles from my childhood home in McLean. When we were kids we would go out to the country to pick our Christmas tree and it was an all day event driving miles and miles out from civilisation with a big picnic.
Fast forward a minute to the townhouse I own in a Toll Brothers community that is valuable because of it's proximity to Rt 66 and and easy commute to D.C. One day I realized that the community is built on the same rural farm land where we used to go to pick our Christmas tree. The people who desire homes there now don't desire Christmas tree farms. Change happens.
Of course the changes that occur all around us will affect us in 20 years, but only in whether we stay or go. It all depends on whether you like Christmas tree farms.

http://vidalago.com/wordpress/

Gringal

May 12, 2007, 4:04 PM

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Re: [ellijo] Changing Mexico

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"It all depends on whether you like Christmas tree farms."

Huh? Most everybody likes Christmas tree farms. They are nice memories from childhood. They also like houses to live in. As the population grows, so do the farms shrink.

The same general pattern is alive and well in Mexico. We love to look at the cornfields and the quaint rural scenes, especially if they include burros. We like the idea of little neighborhood tiendas. As cities grow and workers move there, the cornfields become housing tracts. People trade the burro for a car at the first opportunity and drive in to the new supermarkets. I have seen this happening at an amazing rate in my brief three years here.

Most of that time was spent in San Miguel de Allende. With what seemed to be rocket-driven speed, development and gridlock took over what was left of "On Mexican Time". It's already a different place than the one I moved to from the U.S. It's not alone. In three years from now, I'll be equally amazed at what happens in the Lakeside area.

ellijo

May 12, 2007, 4:34 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Changing Mexico

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While I agree that what Lakeside in 3 years is very likely going to be amazing, I don't know why any of us will be amazed. I guess that's why this topic is slow to get traction. We all know that change is happening and rapidly. But other than complain, what can we do besides adapt? My little story was meant to illustrate that forty years has wrought extraordinary change no matter where you are and contentment depends on our ability change as well.
If I only had the nerve to start smoking pot again, I'd bet that the Ajijic of the '60's is alive and well, and that I've changed more than it has.

http://vidalago.com/wordpress/

song_of_joy

May 12, 2007, 4:44 PM

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Re: [ellijo] Changing Mexico

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I've seen so many changes here...

In the 1980s, the borders were closed to many kinds of goods, and you had to buy contraband (de fayuca). Like Snickers candy bars -- sold in the tianguis for about 7 USD each.

In my personal opinion, NAFTA was great as NofB goods became available legally. It's true, adjusting to a free market was difficult for Mexico after the protectionism during the Lopez Portillo administration.

Then Sam's, Costco, etc. came in and we can choose merchandise from everywhere. I still tend to prefer made-in-Mexico goods, but I really enjoy having an alternative.

(This post was edited by song_of_joy on May 12, 2007, 5:01 PM)

Gringal

May 12, 2007, 4:57 PM

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Re: [ellijo] Changing Mexico

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I like that one about taking up pot. ROFLMAO, imagining a kumbaya circle of elders getting together for a smoke-out.

Yes, we can't stop the rain, and we can't stop the changes. We can look on with a child's wonder as it rolls on.
Each generation has trouble imagining how life was bearable before they had (fill in whatever). Now a large number are hooked together electronically like a beehive. Science fiction writers once described such connectivity and we said "naaah, never happen." But just look at us now.

raferguson

May 12, 2007, 5:09 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico - modernization

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The overall impression that I have of Mexico, based on twenty-some years of travel, is that it has economically developed.

We were somewhere a few years ago and found a toilet that had a bucket for flushing it instead of a handle. We were kind of surprised, as we used to see those often, but had not seen one in years.

The country seems more modern and less primitive. More things seem to work now than they used to. We see more emphasis on repairs, so structures built a decade or two ago are less likely to have gone to rack and ruin. Most parts of the country are a little less quaint than they used to be.

Certainly the new highways are a significant change as well. Some of the toll roads even have traffic on them, despite the costs. The buses are better, by and large. Even the taxis are less likely to be junkers. With prosperity comes more cars, traffic, and congestion.

Obviously the internet, cell phones, and ATMs have made the world smaller, including Mexico.

I don't remember the mega-markets twenty years ago, like Gigante. I think that retail has modernized as well.

There are some changes a little harder to see. Remittances are having a significant impact, especially in rural areas. We all read about villages in which most of the men are north of the border. Migration affects more areas of the country, not just a few states.

A lot remains the same. The little corner stores have not changed much. You still see long lines of Mexicans waiting to pay their bills. Political signs are still prominent. And even though things work better, you can still shake your head at some things that don't work well at all compared to north of the border. We still see grossly substandard electrical systems. More work is done by hand than it would be north of the border. Safety standards have not improved much. Mexicans are still religious. Fiestas continue. AA meeting signs are still ubiquitous. Street demonstrations are still popular.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

ellijo

May 12, 2007, 6:03 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Changing Mexico

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Oh, that was nicely said Gringal!

http://vidalago.com/wordpress/

Mexicanbill

May 12, 2007, 7:17 PM

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Re: [Gringal] Changing Mexico

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I think you said it all "We can't stop the rain and we can't stop the changes"....that really is all there is to it...enjoy what we can, and adjust...Mexico isn't the same from season to season but nowhere is...NOB nobody can start a car without first putting a cell phone to their ear...it would be nice to think that one could forever retire to Mexico and find everything priced the same as it was in the 50's and life still in the slow lane. However as more and more of us head to Mexico, the more we bring our needs to have all the nice things we grew up with...like seats on the toilets, etc...the best we can do, is enjoy today because all to soon we will look back and today will be the "good old days"

Bloviator

May 14, 2007, 6:49 AM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico

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I may be beating a dead horse, but I want to change the topic from the forum to thoughts about Mexico, so will continue my Changing Mexico riff. Jump in or continue beating the moderator about the head and ears.

Population Change Another profound change taking place in Mexico is the birth rate. It is beyond comprehension to me that somehow in a period of only 30 years or so (Mexico encouraged a high birth rate until 1973, when it became obvious that the nation could not support such a population growth), the average birth rate has gone from about 6 children per family to 2.2 - barely above the replacement rate. If one throws in the northward migration, Mexico will soon not be growing in population.

Some people feel that this is a very positive thing, that the nation cannot provide food, housing, and other basics for the population that has been growing so rapidly for so long - approximately 14 million people in 1920 and 110 million plus now.

Others feel that this is not all positive, that the high birth rate contributes to productivity. It is obvious that NoB, the low birth rate, if it were not augmented with massive inmigration from all over the world, would have already resulted in a work force too small to take care of the economic needs of the US. It's already having serious implications for Western Europe.

(This post was edited by dlyman6500 on May 14, 2007, 6:50 AM)

raferguson

May 14, 2007, 10:39 AM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico

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Certainly the reduction in the birth rate in Mexico is amazing. Apparently, the only reason that the population continues to increase is that there are a lot of young people, presumably from the days when the birth rate was higher. But Mexico is not unique, many other parts of the world have also seen large decreases in birth rates.

Even President Fox commented on the aging of Mexico, that this would have profound implications at all kinds of levels, from social security, to emmigration, the economy, etc.

I believe that Calderon is trying to make some changes to the Social Security system right now, but I confess that I have not tuned in to the details. I know that there have been some protests against these proposed changes.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

thriftqueen

May 14, 2007, 4:14 PM

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Re: [dlyman6500] Changing Mexico

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Mexico encouraged a high birth rate until 1973, when it became obvious that the nation could not support such a population growth rate ---

Do you mean the Mexican government or the Catholic Church? About 6 years ago there was a group of women had a booth with birth control information set up on the local almada. The remark was made to us that just a short while before something such as this would not have been allowed.

I know in our small (est. 8,000) pueblo we see less and less young couples with large families. When we do see them they appear to be from the ranchos rather than from the town. I asked a Mexican friend who has a daughter in the local high school if sex education is being taught in the school. Her answer was affirmative. However like in many US schools there are pregnancies among the young girls. I also asked and learned that the girl who becomes pregnant can continue to go to school while pregnant. The local hospital does give out birth control when they have it available.

A mother we know recently remarked that she was going to the clinic to have her apparatus removed. My first thought she was having a sterilization procedure. But she continued her remarks saying, her husband wanted another baby. This is a very poor family with three children, one son is developmentally disabled. We were saddened to hear that they wanted another baby. But again we have to realize that our take on family is totally different than theirs.

Bloviator

Mar 7, 2008, 6:20 PM

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Re: [Bloviator] Changing Mexico

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I just commented that I was disappointed in the response to my Changing Mexico topic from six months or so ago.

I was basically insane.

I am tremendously impressed by the thoughtful and fascinating comments from Jerezo and Rafurgeson who have been her forever. I am amazed by the comments of Gringal and others, I'm fascinated by Thriftqueen's contributions to the population discussion, and I'm proud of my own contributions. Others also made wonderful postings that I find most interesting.

Mine are based on a degree in Latin American history, extensive travel in the past three years, and observing the comments and contributions of the many who are thinking, observant, and aware lovers of Mexico. Thanks to all.

Don't hesitate to start it up again.

Problems at the border:

Having walked across the border at Otay Mesa (TJ area) Friday and having my wife walk across yesterday, I'm very sad to see the changes at the border. I used to walk to TJ and Juarez, get a drink or go to the Jai Alai in TJ or spend time in the Kentucky club in Juarez. Evidently, that is no longer possible. The US Mexican border is a very dangerous place. I've been crossing it regularly on foot and in cars for the past three years, but I think I will have to re-evalute my position. I might continue, but with my wife involved, I doubt that I will any more, even if it is much quicker and less expensive to San Diego.

A personal difference:

When I first came here, I raced through the traffic in Guad. Now I have realized that Guad traffic is not bad at all if one takes his/her time and cooperates with the other drivers. Of course, I still get lost the first time I go anywhere and (hopefully) never get lost again - If I have my trusty Guia Roji with me. Puebla traffic is a nightmare. Guad traffic is not difficult at all if one pays attention and uses common sense.

(This post was edited by Bloviator on Mar 7, 2008, 6:36 PM)

Bloviator

Mar 8, 2008, 8:00 AM

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Re: [Bloviator] Changing Mexico

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If this goes through, it represents a significant and very important change for Mexico. This is from the LA Times today, March8, 2008. A proposed overhaul of the country's court system is good news for its people and the U.S. March 7, 2008
The Mexican Congress has approved an overhaul of the country's judicial system, which is so rife with corruption, caprice and ineptitude that many doubted such a day would ever come. The reforms require a constitutional amendment to take effect, meaning they must be ratified by 17 of Mexico's 31 states. If the overwhelming support of legislators is an indicator, they should pass with ease.

Under the current system, based on Roman and Napoleonic codes, lawyers submit their cases in writing, and judges come to their decisions in secret. Under the new system, defendants would be granted the presumption of innocence, trials would be open to the public and lawyers would present oral arguments, among other welcome changes. Another provision, however, would permit organized crime suspects to be held for up to 80 days without being charged. This is particularly worrisome because Mexico's definition of organized crime is an illegal undertaking by three or more people. And trials for such suspects would still be conducted in secret. The potential for abuses and for a two-tiered justice system to emerge is enormous.

Still, the improvements align Mexico's judicial system more closely with ours, and that is good news for the United States. Many Mexican immigrants to this country bring with them a well-founded fear and distrust of law enforcement that hampers crime-fighting efforts. Mexican government statistics show that nine out of 10 crimes go unreported. And when they are reported, the ineptitude of the system often creates new victims. More than 40% of all people in prison have not been convicted, and some have been held for years in pretrial detentions, according to a Human Rights Watch report.

Judicial reform was one of President Felipe Calderon's top priorities when he took office in December 2006, and the speed with which he has guided it through Congress is dazzling. In the last 15 months, he has alsonegotiated fiscal, pension and electoral reforms. Yet Calderon knows that judicial reform is essential to the larger tasks ahead, which include increasing international investment and turning the economy into one that creates jobs. He has often noted that countries with a strong rule of law have higher gross domestic products.

On his visit to the United States last month, Calderon asked for patience, saying, "If you see dust in the air, don't worry, because we are cleaning the house right now." Yes, it might be messy, but Calderon's housecleaning offers Mexico a foundation for prosperity, and the United States an equal partner with which to confront issues of concern to both nations.

Rolly

Mar 8, 2008, 9:05 AM

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Re: [Bloviator] Changing Mexico

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More open trials is certainly a good first step, a fairly easy one. Much harder will be stopping perjury, suborning of perjury and bribing of prosecutors and judges, all of which is rampant.

Rolly Pirate

Bloviator

Mar 12, 2008, 9:24 AM

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Re: [Bloviator] Changing Mexico

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This is strictly a local Change for Lake Chapala. There seem to be numerous improvements taking place, the Malecon at Joco, the changes at the dock area in Chapala, and a major clean up effort in Ajijic.

When I first came to Ajijic to live three years ago, the streets were extremely dirty, the lakeside was a mess, the lake was filled with lirio and various pollutants, and the place was generally unkept to say the least.

Now, however, Ajijic Limpio and others have made distinct improvements in the cleanliness of the Ajijic streets. There are numerous trash collection barrels and they seem to be used. There has been construction that has removed a lot of the trash filled lots along the main streets. There is still lots of dog and other animal mess, but it seems to be less pervasive and most people are now cleaning up after their animals.

The lirio, instead of often stretching as far as the eye can see from the shore, is almost all gone from the shoreline in the Ajijic area, which has recently undergone a massive clean-up campaign and is looking good. The workers in the local park are constantly cleaning up the park and it is a joy to behold. Recent reports indicate that the lake itself has begun to be less polluted - even reaching a standard that allows for swimming, though I'm not about to check that out. Plastic bottles are still a major problem, but at least for now, there seems to have been a major clean up effort and they have been significantly reduced in number. If it were up to me, plastic bottles would be outlawed. People would have to buy their Cokes and beer in plain paper bags - and drink really fast.

Evidently, they are now closing off the beach area to vehicles. While this will probably reduce the trash and noise, particularly on week-ends, it seems also to have made parking in the lakeshore area very difficult. People are double and triple parking by the park. Roberto's customers, many of whom are quite old an infirm, have to walk to his restaurant. The week-end throngs will have to find new places to make noise and drink beer. I hope it is not outside my home.

(This post was edited by Bloviator on Mar 12, 2008, 9:28 AM)