MexConnect.com Forums: Areas: Southern Mexico: Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city: Page 2

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jacpowell

Mar 14, 2007, 10:53 AM

Post #26 of 62 (3624 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Coffee in Oaxaca City. We are coffee freaks - not in the Peets and other chi-chi class, but addicts. We do enjoy good coffee when we can find it, and at home we order ground coffee and occasionally beans from a place that imports fair trade, some of it from Mexico.

Here in Oaxaca we buy at the little coffee shop on the top end of Cinco de Mayo. They are having a bit of a hard time without the usual tourist influx, but they are helpful and their shop is convenient to us. Unlike, Pochote, it is open all week (except maybe Sunday). It is a few doors down from Gecko Cafe, which is on the east side of 5 de Mayo. They have been out of decaff since we came here in January. I can't tell you the price because we just "Buy Coffee, Any Coffee Regardless of Price." It is, however, better than what you can buy packaged at Pitico or Gigante.

I think Geri meant that the coffee is stronger here, maybe because of how it's roasted or grown, and not that it has been concentrated by processing.

By the way, Oaxaquenos are incredulous that we gringos give directions using points of the compass. They don't know south from sugar. They go by "at the corner of X and Y streets", which means it's maybe somewhere within in a block in any of four directions from that corner, or they tell directions from where you are in blocks and corners and rights and lefts. You can always ask again later....and we've always found the place we're looking for.

hopalog

Mar 16, 2007, 7:10 AM

Post #27 of 62 (3597 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I have absolutely no advice for finding good coffee in Oaxaca but thank you so much for your post. I'm feeling very happy about our decision to stock up in Veracruz. I think Veracruz is my new favorite state. From the little caferterias in Xilitla and San Rafael to the mega cafeterias in Xico and Coatepec, we did well with coffee beans. :)

Here in PaaMul you can get Chiapas coffee for only 65 pesos a pound! What what a steal! /sarcasm

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Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 8:43 AM

Post #28 of 62 (3583 views)

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Re: [jacpowell] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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We are coffee freaks - not in the Peets and other chi-chi class

Now, now, JacPowell, Peets is not chi-chi coffee. Peet is (or was) a Dutch fellow who moved to Berkeley and started his own unique coffee and tea emporium there in the 1960s (I believe). His style of roasting coffee beans, whereever they may have been grown, is his trademark. His Dark French and espresso roasts are wonderful if you like strong bitter (in a nice sense) coffee.When he started, Berkeley and San Francisco´s North Beach Italian neighborhood were among the few places in California where one could buy espresso and the myriad products arising from that brew.

People who worked for Peet started Starbucks in Seattle. Peet taught them what they know about roasting coffee but Peet was absolutely opposed to expansion and branching out of Berkeley for many years although he eventually did some branching in the Bay Area and also started selling fresh coffee beans by mail. When I worked in the Napa Valley, I introduced my fellow bankers in St. Helena to dark roast Peets and they flipped over it. We had Peets coffee delivered every week.

Peet was convinced that expansion (a la Starbucks) would invariably destroy the quality of the product and he was dead on right. There is nothing more personal that the art of roasting coffee. You cannot industrialize this process and make great coffee. People today worship Starbucks coffee because they never tasted great coffee.

Peet is my hero.

Almost anything you buy at a store is of marginal quality no matter how pretty the package. Sorry, but that´s a fact.

I have managed to find wonderful coffee (organic beans from Oaxaca, Chiapas and Veracruz) in Ajijic at Café Grano Café across from the Parroquia. In San Cristóbal I buy excellent coffee at several places but my favorite is the Coffee Museum, a great place for espresso and a small tour of the history of coffee growing in the Chiapas fincas. This place became a political hot potato with the Zapatista uprising but they have calmed down now.

When I return to Chiapas, I plan to do the coffee trail in the Soconusco and then I´ll do the same thing at Coatepec in Veracruz State. I know coffee growers and brokers in both places. These places are as Mecca and Lourdes for guys like me.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 9:01 AM)

Brian

Mar 16, 2007, 9:01 AM

Post #29 of 62 (3577 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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In Reply To

Peet was absolutely opposed to expansion and branching out of Berkeley for many years although he eventually did some branching in the Bay Area and also started selling fresh coffee beans by mail.

What a coincidence, last week during a trip to Tijuana, my wife and I dropped in at Peet's in the Hillcrest area of San Diego and brought back six pounds of French Roast. It's kind of an upscale section of SD, IMHO, but I'm glad Peet decided to setup shop there.

Brian

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 9:27 AM

Post #30 of 62 (3572 views)

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Re: [Brian] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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What a coincidence, last week during a trip to Tijuana, my wife and I dropped in at Peet's in the Hillcrest area of San Diego and brought back six pounds of French Roast. It's kind of an upscale section of SD, IMHO, but I'm glad Peet decided to setup shop there.

You know, Brian, for reasons that escape me, I´m actually beginning to like you. I wonder if Peet is still with us since back in the 70s he was inalterably opposed to branching out his business. That really is probably the reason his ex-employees who started Starbucks became Gazillionaires while he farted away in the Bay Area thinking, somehow, that producing something of sublime quality was more important than rolling in dough.

What is interesting to me is that, as one grows older and has enough assets to see him through this odd experience with comfort, accumulation of wealth becomes less important than the notion that one can sit in one´s garden and sip fine coffee made by an artisan who maintains his standards despite the fact that he could sell his skills to the highest bidder even though the final product would suffer greatly and (this is important) over the years, people would still worship the greatly diminished experience thought to be that thing historically treasured.

If people don´t know what they are missing then they are missing nothing. How could Bubba ever miss the indescribable experience of tasting a truly great Bordeaux if he had no idea what a great Bordeaux was to begin with.Had Bubba not married a woman later to become involved in the French wine trade, Bubba would have gone through life as a South Alabama redneck thinking Jim Beam was the closest thing to heaven on Earth.

Perhaps doing something well - anything actually - is more important than being planted with a large bank account.

There are no pockets in a shroud.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 9:39 AM)

Gringal

Mar 16, 2007, 9:43 AM

Post #31 of 62 (3563 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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"Perhaps doing something well - anything actually - is more important than being planted with a large bank account. There are no pockets in a shroud. "

Dang, Bubba, that's downright profound. Now, if I could just get some Peet's coffee, life on earth would be just about perfect.

sfmacaws

Mar 16, 2007, 10:45 AM

Post #32 of 62 (3554 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I don't know if old man Peet died or sold out or changed his mind, but I now buy my Peet's coffee in the upscale version of Von's,called Pavilions. There are also Peet's coffeehouses (a la Starbucks) all over Calif. The coffee is still better than Starbucks if that's any consolation. You can't get a vanilla, frappe, mocha grande there either, you can get iced in the desert and either espresso or latte everywhere, no flavors and no sno cones. I prefer the Major Dickson blend but also like the House blend.

---says Jonna while sipping her Major Dickson blend made in the AeroPress down here on the Santa Barbara coast of Mexico. I've done quite well in anticipating my coffee use this year, I still have a pound or two left.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 10:55 AM

Post #33 of 62 (3551 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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---says Jonna while sipping her Major Dickson blend made in the AeroPress down here on the Santa Barbara coast of Mexico. I've done quite well in anticipating my coffee use this year, I still have a pound or two left.

The Bubba casa in either Ajijic or San Cristóbal is your casa but you had better Goddamned well show up there with some of that Peets Coffee or your bed will be in the plaza. However, just in case you forget we are off to the Coffee Museum in San Cristóbal where they love Ms Bubba. When we leave there we will be wired.

sfmacaws

Mar 16, 2007, 11:02 AM

Post #34 of 62 (3548 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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If I have any left I'll add it to the bags of frozen rutabega that I've been carrying around all winter along with the stone ground designer corn grits from one of the Carolinas but you damn well better be somewhere I can find you in about 3 weeks. Otherwise I'm going to give it all to Anita and she can dole it out as she sees fit ;)

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 11:19 AM

Post #35 of 62 (3543 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Otherwise I'm going to give it all to Anita and she can dole it out as she sees fit ;)

Anita!!!!!

You would desecrate the holy grit by giving it to Anita AKA NEOhio AKA several other noms de plume whose sorry butt is from Texas and who had the temerity to live in Cleveland, Bal´mar and Ajijic? What do you think this heathen would do with the heavenly grit? Feed it to her possums?

You do that and the fine 12 year old Havana Club Dark Rum I have been saving for you will be replaced by repulsive Nicarauguan Flor de Caña that you couldn´t give away even in Tyler, Texas.

As for the rutabaga, that is more important than the coffee. Brigitte has discovered that both turnip roots and greens are sold in the indigenous market in San Cristóbal but no rutabagas. Bring down those rutabagas and I will make you an Algerian cous cous that will blow you away.*

* Brigitte´s old boy friend was a Tunisian Arab/Jew who was a fabulous cook. I never cared that much about sex so, although I love Brigitte dearly, I would have left her and moved in with him in a New York second for his cous cous and he was kind of cute to boot..

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 11:34 AM)

hopalog

Mar 16, 2007, 4:35 PM

Post #36 of 62 (3515 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Holy crap Bubba. You keep talking your coffee porn and I'm going to have to hunt you down, tie you up and drag your sorry ass to the cafeterias of Coatepec. I would die a thousand deaths to hang out with coffee growers. Were it not for 4 little rug rats that I love dearly, Jamie and I would still be making puppy dog faces at the growers we found in La Grande (just outside Coatepec) and San Marcos (between Coatepec and Xico) so they'd take us around and show us the sons and daughters of the great god Coffee.

I will now spoil this entire post and admit that while Jamie creams at the thought of Peets, I find it just too bitter for me.

Hell's Half Acre

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(This post was edited by hopalog on Mar 16, 2007, 4:37 PM)

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 5:39 PM

Post #37 of 62 (3504 views)

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Re: [hopalog] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I would die a thousand deaths to hang out with coffee growers

Hopalog:

I share your shameless goal and plan to meet coffee growers/brokers in The Soconusco and around Coatepec within the next couple of months, God willing. Somehow I´ll arrange the same event in Oaxaca.

Coffee Porn. I lake that.

I´m an old guy and it´s time to visit Mecca before it´s too late.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 5:40 PM)

jacpowell

Mar 20, 2007, 12:37 PM

Post #38 of 62 (3454 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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As usual, I'm a little slow on the uptake here because I don't get to the internet connection very often. I have to tell you the sad news that there is now a Peets in Denver.

I wasn't sure whether Peets was all that good or whether it was just a cult sort of thing (which I continue to suspect, after the above exchanges.) A person who lives in my little town in Colorado moved there from Berkeley and he raved about it all the time. Since he raved about everything in Berkeley (and has not taken our gentle hints that perhaps he would be happier if he moved back) we aren't able to differentiate.

When there is a Peets in Oaxaca City, then you will need to worry. There are certainly enough Italian Coffee Company outlets, all over Mexico. They are without fail on or very near the Zocalo, as well as in other locations around the cities. We have bought decaf from them in a pinch, but since I don't do decaf (Gary does) I can't attest to its quality.

Jackie

hopalog

Mar 20, 2007, 7:04 PM

Post #39 of 62 (3435 views)

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Re: [jacpowell] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Jamie, who flaunts his ass in my avatar, is a real coffee snob. Well, not so much a snob as he loves good espresso. He doesn't really care about the brand, as long as it is good. He LOVED the coffee at the Italian Coffee Company in Monte Gordo Veracruz (Emerald Coast).

Hell's Half Acre

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Bubba

Mar 20, 2007, 8:05 PM

Post #40 of 62 (3427 views)

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Re: [jacpowell] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I wasn't sure whether Peets was all that good or whether it was just a cult sort of thing (which I continue to suspect, after the above exchanges.) A person who lives in my little town in Colorado moved there from Berkeley and he raved about it all the time. Since he raved about everything in Berkeley (and has not taken our gentle hints that perhaps he would be happier if he moved back) we aren't able to differentiate.

When there is a Peets in Oaxaca City, then you will need to worry. There are certainly enough Italian Coffee Company outlets, all over Mexico. They are without fail on or very near the Zocalo, as well as in other locations around the cities. We have bought decaf from them in a pinch, but since I don't do decaf (Gary does) I can't attest to its quality.

I have been out of the U.S. since 2001 and out of San Francisco (as a resident) since about 1995 so, when I read JacPowell´s comments about Peets, I had to look into something that has really not interested me in many years. Alfred Peet started his coffee and tea import company in the 1960s at age 46 but sold his company to a publicly held entity in 1979 so I´m a bit behind the times. Apparently, they are expanding all over the U.S. He is still alive in his mid-80s but is not a force in the company anymore.

Interesting. I haven´t had a cup of Peets since about 2001 so I have no idea where they are going today. If they are going the way of Starbucks then they are certainly gone as far as I´m concerned. There does seem to be a cult element about the brand now.

Peets had and probably has a unique way of brewing coffee that emphasized a dark and bitter roast that was quite good in its day. I can´t speak of them today.

I can´t imagine Peets moving into the clearly unsophisticated Oaxaca City coffee market unless it is to attract tourists around the zocalo. Oaxacans in general know nothing about coffee and that is a sad fact. On the other hand, urban areas in Chiapas have good to great coffee. I´ll bet they also drink great coffee in parts of Veracruz state and city.

There are also wonderful coffee houses in Guadalajara these days.

The Italian Coffee Company outlets along the autopistas are quite good especially in comparison with the usual and dreadful coffee and sandwich fare on Mexican highways. I find them much more numerous in Southern Mexico than up north but I enjoy stopping there when I spot one but, let´s face it, these are freeway pit stops.

You never know.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 20, 2007, 8:10 PM)

RonMader

Mar 22, 2007, 7:05 PM

Post #41 of 62 (3389 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Mmmmmmm, coffee! Here is my Top 3 list of Best Coffee in Oaxaca City

Cafe La Maravilla, Pochote Market (Fridays and Saturdays) ... also establishing it's own coffeeshop two blocks north

Cafe Los Cuiles, Antonio Labastida #115, Plaza Las Virgenes

Nuevo Mundo, Bravo #206

Bubba

Mar 23, 2007, 9:52 AM

Post #42 of 62 (3367 views)

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Re: [RonMader] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Thank you ron. I´ll definitely try these places on my next visit.

geri

Mar 23, 2007, 1:12 PM

Post #43 of 62 (3352 views)

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Re: [RonMader] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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It's the Cafe Maravilla brand that I buy to make coffee in my house. Bubba "suspects" its quality. Also there is, and has been for some time, an Italian Coffee place on the zocalo. Maybe the ones on the Autopista are better??? I really don't know, since I don't drink coffee except en mi casa. There's an Italian Coffee place across from Santo Domingo Church and one in Parque Llano also, and others I've seen about town, but didn't make a mental note of where. I just recently learned that it's a Mexican company, not Italian. Duh! I'm not the coffee expert that some are but Maravilla is deliciosa para mi. Ron, are you talking about where they serve it in Pochote at the outdoor tables on the north side of Pochote? I've never drank it there, but that's where I buy it to make at home.

Bubba

Mar 23, 2007, 2:50 PM

Post #44 of 62 (3339 views)

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Re: [geri] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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There's an Italian Coffee place across from Santo Domingo Church and one in Parque Llano also, and others I've seen about town, but didn't make a mental note of where.

Thanks, Geri. I´ll look for those as well. Actually, I was kind of hoping some of you would tell me where to look for really good coffee since we come to Oaxaca often and I have had no luck in the past. That´s not unusual. It´s not always obvious where to look if you are not a local. There are several places I like in San Cristóbal but, except for the co-op owned Coffee Museum - my favorite - I know how to find them I can´t remember their names. San Cristóbal is quite compact so all one has to do is walk around the historic center to spot these places.

NEOhio1

Mar 23, 2007, 3:23 PM

Post #45 of 62 (3330 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Bubba,

I knew my ears were burning.....my gran's cook in Deeeeeetroit taught me how to make grits the best way.......she was the only one who could understand our Texas twang/drawl when we moved north and we spent many an afternoon in the kitchen talking and eating "south" as gran called it. After the elocution guy left from the morning lessons..."rain in Spain" and all that....anyway...

here's the deal.... give me the rum to take to Jonna and I will bring back your coffee.... and keep my own counsel (for some of your coffee) about you know what......but you will have to sweat whether I will tell the story to Jonna for some of her rum.....

Oh, wait, I remember ......oh, Bubba, too bad the silence will cost you....I will give you some of MY coffee....a cup, maybe two...

Anita
Corpus Christi, Cleveland, Baltimore and Ajijic and proud of it!!

RonMader

Mar 23, 2007, 3:40 PM

Post #46 of 62 (3327 views)

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Re: [geri] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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There are two coffee venders at the Pochote - Nu Van (Tierra Viva) and Maravilla. Maravilla is my favorite but Tierra Vive makes a great cappuccino.

Pics

Maravilla
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeta/40585226

Nu Van
http://www.flickr.com/...os/planeta/125422061

And for those who love the traditional markets, visit La Confianza at the Benito Juarez market
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeta/50280328

As someone who loves good coffee, I am also publishing quite a few articles on coffee production and coffee tourism on Planeta.com.

Cheers!

nancyinpdx

Apr 11, 2007, 1:21 AM

Post #47 of 62 (3265 views)

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Re: [RonMader] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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In 1997 Hotel Las Golondrinas had pretty good coffee. Their breakdast restaurant is also open to non-guests.

nancy (aka known as 'cute_aardvark' here a long time ago)

RonMader

Apr 11, 2007, 5:06 AM

Post #48 of 62 (3262 views)

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Re: [sillyweirdo] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Golindrinas is a beautiful place!

A quick update. The new cafe run by Rocio from the Pochote Market is called La Pochotita, Rufino Tamayo #814

Photos
http://www.flickr.com/...s/planeta/439059976/
http://www.flickr.com/...os/planeta/439056459

nancyinpdx

Apr 11, 2007, 2:13 PM

Post #49 of 62 (3240 views)

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Re: [RonMader] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I agree that it is a beautiful place. The maids that work there were wonderful too! I have some pictures of them, I remember Rosie and she had a baby named Carlos.

(i changed my name from sillyweirdo to nancyinpdx.)

GringaGirl

Apr 21, 2009, 9:49 AM

Post #50 of 62 (3174 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Although this is an answer to an older post, I have to comment. In the guide books, Oaxaca is praised for it's food. I don't know about the coffee, because I'm not much of a coffee drinker. For 150 pesos I hope I can get a good meal because in Indiana I can get a great meal for that price! In fact it's more than what I usually pay.
I did notice as I was searching for an apartment in Oaxaca online, that most were in the $1000 a month range. (I thought the cost of living was supposed to be lower in Mexico.) Once again, in Indiana a $1000 a month apartment is expensive.
I hope when I arrive I can find a reasonable apartment that is within walking distance to the zocalo.

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