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home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 18, 2007, 3:28 PM

Post #1 of 33 (3090 views)

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Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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I am doing research for my ebook and I wanted to include some kind of reference for the price of tenencias for cars purchased and licensed in Mexico. Does anyone know of any kind of on line reference (for any state would be fine)? I just want some kind of ball park reference.

Thanks.
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

jerezano

Feb 18, 2007, 3:52 PM

Post #2 of 33 (3074 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Hello home-sweet-mexico.com

Way back in 1995? there was one so I should expect to find one now as well. I found it that year by google searching for tenencias since that year was an amnesty period for chocolates.

Tenencias are a Federal tax so they are the same for all states. They are based on the book value of your car, that book value being determined by the Federal government, not any of the blue books etc. They run for 10 years from the year of the car's birth starting at 10% of the new car's book value and decreasing 1% a year until 0% is reached, so if your car is 10 years old there is no tenencia payment. This is the way I remember the tax, but perhaps my memory has gone skyward along with many other things.

Good luck in your search.

Adiós. jerezano.

home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 18, 2007, 4:19 PM

Post #3 of 33 (3066 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Thanks Jerezano,

Trust me, I've already googled, but your description is helpful. I didn't know how they calculated it and it's good to know that it is a federal tax.

Julia
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 18, 2007, 4:23 PM

Post #4 of 33 (3064 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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So, are emissions tests also federal?
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

Ed and Fran

Feb 18, 2007, 5:39 PM

Post #5 of 33 (3042 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Tenencias are a Federal tax so they are the same for all states. They are based on the book value of your car, that book value being determined by the Federal government, not any of the blue books etc. They run for 10 years from the year of the car's birth starting at 10% of the new car's book value and decreasing 1% a year until 0% is reached, so if your car is 10 years old there is no tenencia payment.

I've heard that 10% mentioned before, but I'm wondering if it isn't possibly a bit off. Maybe we need someone who has recently purchased a new car and has just paid the tenencia to chime in.

I do remember standing in line at Hacienda last year (the first year we didn't have to pay tenencia, as our car crossed the 10 year threshhold) and they had a big chart up on the wall showing the detailed calculations for the tax. I recall looking at it and thinking that the tenencia was much less than I remember it being spoken of.

Can't find a chart like that on the web, but I did find the following page from the state of Guerrero, which allows you to calculate the tenencia for any year car and any price (most state on-line calculators want you to fill in your car's particular data). For yucks, I filled in that the car was new (2007) and purchased in Jan 2007, with a price of $250,000 pesos (iva included). The calculator spits out a tenencia of $6,521, which is pretty close to 3% of the invoice price less iva ($250,000 less iva = $217,391 x 3% = $6,521)

http://www.guerrero.gob.mx/?P=calcular_tenencia

Just one data point,

Ed

home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 19, 2007, 9:30 AM

Post #6 of 33 (2981 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Ed, Thanks. I agreed that the 10% seemed way too high based on what we pay for our 6 year old truck. I don't know my husband's plates (and forgot to look last night) so I wasn't able to fill in data. I like your thinking. Maybe I'll just go out to the street and write down someone else's plates and put in data for a couple of different examples and do it the way you did.

Julia
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

Delia

Feb 19, 2007, 11:56 AM

Post #7 of 33 (2955 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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I bought a 2007 Nissan Sentra in October for 215,800 pesos incl IVA and took delivery mid December. I was quoted 3% of the total price for fees. Based on the above value the prorated charges for the balance of the year were 675 pesos for plates and 450 pesos for tenencia. This year the 2007 tenencia was 5629 pesos plus 333 pesos for refrendo. Minus a 30% discount for payment before March 31st.

Papirex

Feb 19, 2007, 12:22 PM

Post #8 of 33 (2945 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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The tenencia for a new car is mysterious to me. I have never been able to find a good explanation for it. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the tenencia is the equivalent of the annual registration fees for a car. It is increased by 10% of the value of a new car for the first ten years, added to the normal registration fees. The 10% additional fee declines each year for ten years. It is not 10% each year.

Tenencia means possession in Spanish. We had two American vehicles that we had nationalized until recently. Both of them were over ten years old, so they were not subject to the excess 10% tax. When we renewed the licenses for them each year, we were paying our annual tenencia, it is listed as the tenencia on the license renewal papers we receive each year.

I guess I will find out next year if my understanding of this law is correct or not. My wife is a van person. “Her” car was a 1992 Dodge grand Caravan until recently. It had 145,000 miles on it, and it was starting to show its age, we had to take it to the shop for repairs too often recently.

My suegra lives with us most of the time. She thought the van was too unreliable lately, so, unknown to us, she bought a new Chrysler Caravan for her daughter as a gift last year. My suegra is not rich, but she is far from broke. Contrary to popular belief, not all Mexicans are as poor as a church mouse.

The “new” van is not quite new. It is a 2005 model, and was used as a demonstrator by a Chrysler dealer in Mexico City. It had 15,000 kilometers (9,300 miles) on it when we got it, and 3 years of transferable factory warranty left.

The tenencia has been paid for the last two years already. When we renew the tenencia this march, I will try to analyze it to see what percentage of the original price we will be paying in addition to the regular tenencia. That may be impossible. Hard figures are hard to come by when dealing with any government agency here.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

esperanza

Feb 19, 2007, 12:37 PM

Post #9 of 33 (2937 views)

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Re: [Delia] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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The 30% discount is given only on the refrendo, not on the tenencia itself.

On January 15, 2007 I paid the 2007 tenencia and refrendo online for my 2005 Atos. The tenencia was 1,882.00 pesos (approximately 2% of the current book value of the car); the refrendo was 333.00 pesos, discounted to 233.00 pesos for early payment. I included a contribution of 30.00 pesos to the Instituto Cabañas and the Cruz Roja.

The state of Jalisco also has a website: http://www.jalisco.gob.mx/index.html. Near the top of the website is a pull-down window titled Servicios en Línea. Click on the arrow and then on Pago de tenencia y refrendo vehicular, which is toward the bottom of the list that appears. A new window will open; you enter your license plate and VIN and the website will tell you what you owe. You can pay online using a credit or debit card. It's so simple, much easier than standing in long lines at the offices.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

esperanza

Feb 19, 2007, 12:46 PM

Post #10 of 33 (2931 views)

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Re: [RexC] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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RexC, the tenencia is nowhere near 10% of the value of a new car. You can take a look at either the Guerrero website or the Jalisco website and figure out approximately what the tenencia will be on your new vehicle.

I don't believe it's a fixed number throughout the country. The tenencia on my car, as calculated for the state of Guerrero, is a good bit less than it is for the state of Jalisco. I think each state charges according to...well...hmmm. According to what it wants, I suppose! It's the same in the United States; each state charges according to its own method of calculation.

The tenencia is the tax that vehicle owners pay for the right to possess a vehicle with Mexican license plates.

PS: Don't forget that you receive a 10% deduction on the refrendo if you pay early. Why wait till March?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

johanson

Feb 19, 2007, 12:55 PM

Post #11 of 33 (2927 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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I too used to believe that tenencia was 10% of the value of a new car the first year then 9% the second, 8% etc. I think it is urban legend. I'm sure glad to learn that it is closer to 3% the first year then decreasing every year over the first ten years of the car's life

jerezano

Feb 19, 2007, 1:52 PM

Post #12 of 33 (2917 views)

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Re: [johanson] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Hello all;

Regarding tenencias, let's get something clear. Tenencias are a Federal tax on cars less than 10 years old. That tax is based the first year on a brand new car at the rate of 10% of something. That something is the base value that the Mexican Federal Government sets for specific automobiles every new year. That 10% charged the first year then decreases 1% a year for 10 years so that an eleven year old car is not taxed.

Now can we find anywhere that list of values that the Government sets? I have never been able to find it but I suspect it is somewhere in the Mexican Federal Register which reports the rules and regulations as they are adopted.

In my "Tramites (paperwork) Ouch!" story about legalizing a chocolate in 2001 which you can find here on Mexconnect.com I describe some of the problems with Mexican paperwork which my stupidity led me to blunder into. In that story I mention that the Official in charge of Plating cars in Jerez, Zacatecas had to determine the specific value of my car so that he could establish the Tenencias to be charged. That was internal computer work (or perhaps by telephone) which he did and which I was not privy to.

In sum: The Tenencias for a new car are 10% of some value set by the Mexican Federal Government for a new car. THIS IS NOT SOME URBAN LEGEND. That 10% decreases 1% every year for 10 years so that an 11 year old car is not charged Tenencias. That specific car value is determined by the Mexican Federal Government each year (so I have been told). What it is nobody except the Federal Government seems to know until the list is published each year.

Tenencias are collected by the State governments and turned over to the Federal government. They are collected at the same time the State licensing and other fees charged by them are collected.

Here in Zacatecas we need to pay the licensing and other fees and Tenencias by March 31 of every year. So, the list of values and Tenencia charges has to be published before that time.

Hewlit-Packard has developed a program which "municipios" can buy and use to determine the tenencias and pay them directly to a bank. Apparently Jalisco has opted to use that or a similar program. Zacatecas has not yet done so, or if they have I have not been able to find the site.

Good luck to all. Next month I will be paying my licensing fees, other fees including some kind of contribution to the University of Zacatecas and my Tenencias, all at the same time and at the same local office in Jerez. Many other people will be doing the same thing.

Adiós. jerezano.

esperanza

Feb 19, 2007, 2:26 PM

Post #13 of 33 (2909 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Jerezano, you'll be pleased to see that Zacatecas has its very own website where you can pay your tenencia online:
http://www.zacatecas.gob.mx/. I simply googled 'gobierno estado de zacatecas' and bingo.

Once you're on the website, click on 'Pago de impuestos' (on the left-hand side of the page, scroll down) and then type in the number of your placa and your VIN. The website will tell you how much you owe for 2007.

Like many posters here, you're operating under the belief that the cost of the tenencia starts at 10% for a new car and goes down 1% per year until year eleven, when no further tenencia is owed. That's not true. The starting point for a new car's tenencia is more like 3%. It goes down from there.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

esperanza

Feb 19, 2007, 2:43 PM

Post #14 of 33 (2904 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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How rude, to reply to myself...but I found the law (and yes, it's a Federal law, but the tenencia is collected by the individual state governments, and every state has a website like those of Guerrero, Jalisco, and Zacatecas).

Here's the website: http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/83.pdf.

The section that applies to the calculation of the annual tenencia is in Article 5, the table of tarifas. Tenencia for vehicles valued at less than 428,768.31 pesos is 3%, with no fixed tax. The percentage of tenencia increases with the value of the vehicle, to a maximum of 19.1% if your vehicle is valued at 1,393,020.61 pesos or more--you can easily see the fixed amount of tax OVER AND ABOVE WHICH the higher percentages of tenencia are charged.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Papirex

Feb 19, 2007, 6:05 PM

Post #15 of 33 (2880 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Esperanza, Thanks for the tip about Googling for the state goberno sites. I did that and found the site for Morelos. I had to thrash around a bit to find the info about paying the tenencia. The office where we pay it every year is named the “Transito” office.

I could find no heading for Transito. I did find it under subsecretaria de ingresos. My superior, (supervisor, boss, better half, wife) is in México for a couple of days with the van. When she gets back on Wednesday I will get the license number and check out the amount of the tenencia for this year.

I do have the license number in a file. Pure laziness prevents me from looking for it now.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

jerezano

Feb 19, 2007, 8:53 PM

Post #16 of 33 (2863 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Hello Esperanza and others.

Esperanza I wish I could search the Internet as well as you can. How wonderful that you finally found a law on Tenencias for us. A law for which I have been looking off and on for some 6 or 7 years. And too, that the Zacatecas government page has a section on payment of those Tenencias. I have been using that page for two years and never noticed the Tenencia link.

And now I see where I have been wrong.

The section on the base for the Tenencia calculation is as Esperanza has said Chapter II Article 5 which is in PDF format and I was able to copy it but the formatting was lost:

Automóviles
Artículo 5o.- Tratándose de automóviles, omnibuses, camiones y tractores no agrícolas tipo quinta
rueda, el impuesto se calculará como a continuación se indica:

Article Fifth. Automobiles, busses, tractors and tractors non agricultural of the fifth wheel type, the tax is calculated as indicated below:

I.- En el caso de automóviles nuevos, destinados al transporte hasta de quince pasajeros, el impuesto
será la cantidad que resulte de aplicar al valor total del vehículo, la siguiente:

l. In the case of new automobiles designed for the transportation of up to 15 passengers the tax will be the quantity which results from applying to the total value of the vehicle the following factor:
TARIFA
Rate in pesos
Límite inferior Límite superior Cuota fija Tasa para aplicarse sobre el excedente
del límite inferior

Lower Limit to Upper limit/ Fixed quota/ Rate on value less Lower limit
$0 to $428,768.31 /0.00 /3.0%
428,768.32 to 825,140.79/ 12,863.05/ 8.7%
825,140.80 to 1,109,080.70/ 47,347.45/ 13.3%
1,109,080.71 to 1,393,020.60/ 85,111.46/ 16.8 %
1,393,020.61 En adelante/ 132,813.36/ 19.1%

From this the base tax rate on a new car valued at $200,000 pesos would be 3% of of that $200,000 pesos or $6,000 pesos (roughly $600 us dollars). In year one without any depreciation allowed the owner would pay 100% of that Tenencia.

Another example: A car costing $800,000 pesos would be taxed at the rate of 8.7% of the resulting sum of $800,000 less $428,768.32 or $371,231.68 x 0.87 = $32,297.16 pesos . But most of us would be buying a car valued at less than the $428,768.32 limit so I guess we can forget this example which just shows how to calculate the tax.

What the fixed quota is I can find no explanation.

Later on there is a table for Used cars which your new car will be just as soon as you pay that first Tenencia. In this new table which follows, the original Tenencia is reduced by a factor of .10 the first year but from then on the factor varies until in year 10 it is 0. So in year 9, for example you are paying exactly half the Tenencia you paid on your new car. Here is the table

Años de
antigüedad Factor
1 0.900
2 0.889
3 0.875
4 0.857
5 0.833
6 0.800
7 0.750
8 0.667
9 0.500

One other point. That original Tenencia is reduced by a small percentage for each month of the year. For example if bought in September the Tenencia would not be the full percentage (3% for most of us) as if bought in January. There's a table for that too.

What a complicated system, but this is the way it works if I haven't got confused by the law.

Adiós. jerezano

(This post was edited by jerezano on Feb 19, 2007, 9:06 PM)

home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 20, 2007, 12:10 PM

Post #17 of 33 (2826 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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In Reply To

The section that applies to the calculation of the annual tenencia is in Article 5, the table of tarifas. Tenencia for vehicles valued at less than 428,768.31 pesos is 3%, with no fixed tax. The percentage of tenencia increases with the value of the vehicle, to a maximum of 19.1% if your vehicle is valued at 1,393,020.61 pesos or more--you can easily see the fixed amount of tax OVER AND ABOVE WHICH the higher percentages of tenencia are charged.

Esperanza wins the day! This is perfect. But I don't understand how these things are calculated (I'm not a math whiz). Does that mean that if you car is worth at least $428,768.32 you pay $12,863.05 or 8.7% of the value, whichever is higher?

Julia
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

home-sweet-mexico.com

Feb 20, 2007, 12:56 PM

Post #18 of 33 (2822 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Esperanza super Google whiz,
Can you find the law that tells about emissions testing? I'm wondering the same types of things about that. Is it federal? Does it cost the same all over the country? Are there places where it isn't required? Is it always every six months? Do you do it for cars over 10 years old?
Thanks, Julia
Julia Taylor
Creator of http://www.home-sweet-mexico.com and author of Mexico: The Trick is Living Here.

bola_blanca

Feb 20, 2007, 2:35 PM

Post #19 of 33 (2809 views)

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Afinición Controlada

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This is an estado de Jalisco law that only applies to the ZMG(Zona Metropolitana de Guadalajara).

Art. 22. En el caso de los vehículos automotores que porten placas extranjeras o de otras entidades federativas, que emitan ostensiblemente contaminantes a la atmósfera circulando por la Zona Metropolitana de Guadalajara, o en los municipios en que se encuentre aplicándose el Programa conforme al artículo 1º de este Reglamento, deberán de cumplir con el Programa, debiendo el operativo de tránsito que haya detectado dicha unidad, retirar la tarjeta de circulación y aplicar la sanción correspondiente que se establece en el presente Ordenamiento, pudiendo recuperar tal documento una vez que se haya cubierto la multa respectiva y comprobado que la unidad porta el Carnet y Holograma emblemáticos del Programa.

The above basically says that if your vehicle is sporting foreign plates that it must be emitting contaminants "ostensibly" before you can be sanctioned.

Hope this helps and I only posted this because I was concerned that Esperanza might be feeling overworked.

Here is the URL of the entire document if you are so inclined.

www.ordenjuridico.gob.mx/Estatal/JALISCO/Reglamentos/JALReg38.pdf

"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and he spends all day in a boat drinking beer."

esperanza

Feb 20, 2007, 3:27 PM

Post #20 of 33 (2796 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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If your brand new car is worth from 0 to 428,768.31 pesos, you pay ONLY 3% the first year. The percentage then goes down every year.

If your car is worth from 428,768.32 pesos to 825,140.79 pesos, you pay 12,863.05 or 8.7% of the value, whichever is greater (if I understand the table correctly).

And so forth, right on up to that huge figure at the end of the table.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Papirex

Feb 20, 2007, 4:05 PM

Post #21 of 33 (2789 views)

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Re: [home-sweet-mexico.com] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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I think it would be useful to convert the Pesos to US Dollars to get a better picture of what bracket most of us will be in when paying the tenencia.

At today’s exchange rate, $ 428,768.32 Pesos equals $39,046.28 US Dollars.
$825,140.79 Pesos equals $75,143.40 US Dollars.
At the high end, $1,393,020.21 Pesos equals $126,859 US Dollars.

I think that unless someone is planning to buy a new loaded Hummer, or some other exotic car with all the bells and whistles including gold fenders, most of us will almost surely be taxed at the 3% rate.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

johanson

Feb 20, 2007, 5:56 PM

Post #22 of 33 (2762 views)

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Re: [RexC] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Gee I sure hope you are wrong esperanza, and that one only pays about 3% on the first $428,768 and then 8.7% on the next so many pesos.

This leads to my next question. How much more expensive is it to buy a car in Mexico, than in the states? The last car I bought was a middle of the road 2 door 2001 Ford Explorer Sport in Oct 2000. I paid after taxes close to $27,000 US in Texas. A like car would be over $30,000 US today. I can't remember how much more expensive the car would have been in Mexico but it would have been approaching the $39K or $428,768 limit.

My question, what has been your experience when comparing the prices of a like car on either side of the border? I am less than a year away from buying another middle of the road medium to slightly smaller SUV and have been trying to understand the advantages of buying in Mexico.

One great disadvantage is paying the tenencia. Over ten years in WA for example, I would only have to pay $33. per year or $330 $330 US. If I remember correctly, that cost would be about $700 over the ten years on a Texas plated car. While in Mexico, if that same car I paid for $27,000 US, cost $350,000 pesos then the total taxes or tenencia over the ten years would be $28,000 pesos or $2,600 US which is many times higher than one would pay up north.

So, again, how much more expensive is the same car here in Mexico than in the US only 20% or somewhat more?

esperanza

Feb 20, 2007, 6:06 PM

Post #23 of 33 (2760 views)

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Re: [johanson] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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In Reply To

Gee I sure hope you are wrong esperanza, and that one only pays about 3% on the first $428,768 and then 8.7% on the next so many pesos.

Pete m'dear, go back and look at the table again. That's not what it (or I) said.

For a car valued at 428,768.31 pesos OR LESS, you pay 3%.

The rest of the costs of the annual tenencia (for higher priced vehicles) are listed in the table.

I'll research the rest of your question and answer later this evening or in the morning.

Geez, how did I get to be the Great Guru of Cars? It's kinda funny, and my pleasure.

Cute little link to my profile, Pete. Made me smile.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Feb 20, 2007, 6:09 PM)

johanson

Feb 20, 2007, 6:33 PM

Post #24 of 33 (2753 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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The sad truth is Experanza, that I can't spell worth a shoot. Therefore I simply copied the esperanza link rather than spelling out "esperanza". Once I realized what I had done, I just left it the way it was, rather than re-spelling it out.

And sadly I figured you were probably right about the higher % rates, you are the vast majority of the time, I was just hoping, without checking the wording that you were wrong, Damn :)

It's great having you around. You are a great font of information. (Like your recommendations about IconnectHere)

Papirex

Feb 20, 2007, 6:39 PM

Post #25 of 33 (2747 views)

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Re: [johanson] Is there a web site that tells tenencias on line?

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Pete, you might want to try this link to get some shotgun figures: http://www.ford.com.mx/home.asp

A 2007 Explorer 4 door XLT V8 4X4 is listed at $400,700 MN.
If you click on this link: http://www.ford.com.mx/vehicles/pricesVehicles.asp?idModel=EXR
It will take you to a page where you can click on details to see how it is equipped.

It’s a start.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

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