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mazgordon


Feb 1, 2007, 8:29 PM

Post #26 of 44 (5155 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Tipping

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Rita and were recently vacationing in Mérida where we observed a sign, in English, "Tipping Is Not A City In China!"

¡Echar todo la carne al asador!


Bloviator

Feb 2, 2007, 5:14 AM

Post #27 of 44 (5134 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Tipping

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I'd never be so crass as to talk about cheapskates from Winnipeg.

A couple of summers ago, the Old Posada in Ajijic had Sunday brunch with three good musicians who knocked themselves out to provide entertainment for those who attended.

One Sunday, my wife got incensed that they were getting few tips. She marched up to the tip jar, grabbed it and began to go from table to table strong arming people for tips.

She came to one table of eleven canoes. They looked totally aghast at her and said "We're canoes. We don't tip." They did that day. She actually got $20 pesos from the table.

The musicians were most appreciative. They got twice as much as they usually did.

Two nights ago I was totally depressed. We went to our favorite restaurant to listen to the good music. For once, we got good service and good food, so I was intending to give the waiters a good tip. Unfortunately, it turned out that I had less money available then I thought, so I had to ration the tip money among the waiters and musicians.

When I went to put the tip money in the tip jar of the musicians - about half way through the evening - I saw that they had already done well. The total take consisted of two US pennies - obviously not the work of canoes. Either it was the work of someone completely insane or they really didn't like the music. I almost left the restaurant to go to the bank ATM and get more money.


(This post was edited by dlyman6500 on Feb 2, 2007, 5:24 AM)


NEOhio1


Feb 2, 2007, 9:12 AM

Post #28 of 44 (5099 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Tipping

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Dylman6500, I appreciate that you appreciate music just about anytime, anywhere. And you tip accordingly, your choice.

However I do not appreciate anything more than quiet background music while I dine and therefore since I didn't go for the music, and would prefer not to have music, most of the time I don't feel compelled to tip for the music. This would be easy to solve by going just to places that have no music, however that is impossible anymore, just about everywhere has live music.

Two pennies is deplorable and ugly, and whoever did that should be ashamed but won't be since they obviously weren't ashamed to do it. However should your lovely wife "pass the hat" it would feel to me like strongarming to ante-up for a service I don't want and don't feel compelled to pay for - socially pressured to pay for music would not go over well.

My husband however enjoys all music and appreciates all musicians, so we never agree on this point. The only concession I get is driving in the car for long distances - no radio/tape/CD - and he can listen to the iPod some of the time as long as the sound doesn't bleed out the earphones.

We have had workers on the property doing maintenance type things for 4 weeks, until this past Wednesday they worked silently, that afternoon a boombox showed up and was plugged in - it is invasive and annoying and I hate it and the husband loves it. There is two more weeks worth of work to do, and when they are paid this Saturday I will have to explain that the music can only be on when I am not on the property.

My older daughter and I hear music as a visual medium - colors define the melody and negative space defines the tempo. With this there is a lot of music that is pleasant (soft piano, guitar and old standards and just about anything in muzak-styling), however there is way more that is tolerable for limited time (original old standards, early pop, bubblegum, some classical, some orchestral) and even more that is impossible to listen to for very long (heavy classical, rap, druggy band rock and roll, whiny country & western). Similar reactions to laughtracks and commercial jingles. Sometimes we laugh and say we have our very own light show. Biggest surprise, heard live, original intrument indigenous music featuring pan flute in San Miguel last visit - that comes across as incredible sunsets of purples, white, rose and yellows colors - Yep, pretty wierd but really nice to listen to and see.

So, not everyone wants, prefers, needs or even remotely appreciates musicians efforts. I can do it for a while, and we do dance and enjoy it, but we have signals when enough is enough.

For meal tipping, usually a 20% rounded down to the nearest 5 pesos. Baggers, 3 pesos and any littler pesos that come as change. Car watchers - depends on which car we are driving and where we are parked but anywhere from 10 pesos to 50 pesos. Gas guys - 5 pesos if they wash front and rear windows, nothing for straight pumping.


(This post was edited by NEOhio1 on Feb 2, 2007, 9:19 AM)


bournemouth

Feb 2, 2007, 9:20 AM

Post #29 of 44 (5094 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Tipping

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Perhaps it would be simpler for those places that have music on a constant basis to have a cover charge that pays for the music. Does La Tasca not do this Dick? If there is a cover charge, I don't feel compelled to tip also, unless I might have made a request for a particular tune.


jennifer rose

Feb 2, 2007, 9:25 AM

Post #30 of 44 (5091 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Tipping

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Y'all in Lake Chapala are more affluent. 10% is the the norm in Morelia for restaurants. Grocery sackers, 1-2 pesos. Parking attendants at Costco and grocery stores, 3-5 pesos.


Bloviator

Feb 2, 2007, 10:30 AM

Post #31 of 44 (5075 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Tipping

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I know the feeling. Yesterday I wanted to try a new restaurant in Ajijic for lunch. They were playing very loud disco sounding music. Since, I had heard that music coming from there before, I realized that if I ate there I would be stuck with it during the whole meal. I left and probably won't go there again, though I've heard the food is quite good.

Bournemouth is correct. Most places do charge a basic cover - usually $30 pesos for the music. Another good reason not to patronize a place that has music if you don't want to hear music. If that was all the musicians got - and I'm not sure they get it all - they would still not be able to provide the service unless they were doing it just to amuse themselves. Tips are an essential part of their renumeration even when a cover is charged.


Papirex


Feb 2, 2007, 11:14 AM

Post #32 of 44 (5068 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Tipping

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Anita, I must say I agree with you about someone grabbing the tip jar and passing it around to strong-arm people into tipping. My wife was a professional musician and singer. Her primary income was from tips. Passing the tip cup around is not professional.

A few times, a well-meaning patron would start to do that. My wife couldn’t stop them fast enough. Trying to force unwilling people to tip will most likely cause them not to return to the restaurant.

Patrons aren’t the only cheapskates. More than once an owner would try to tell us that he was no longer going to pay her, but she could continue to perform for tips. We always gave them a choice when they tried that. Continue to pay her, or, since you are breaking our contract, say goodbye. If they insisted that they were no longer going to pay her that would be her last night on the job. I always had the owners sign a contract; she would be paid for that last night.

Doris left one new gig after less than one hour of singing when the restaurant owner told her not to touch the money in the tip cup. She said, “That is my money.” Doris said nothing, the owner returned to the kitchen. Doris simply packed up her guitar, music, tip cup, and her money and left.

Doris averaged US$200 per night in tips 20 years ago. Of course there were the $17 Dollar nights too, but they were offset by the fairly rare $500 Dollar nights. The best places for tipping were the grimy fishermen’s bars. One night a fisherman tipped her $500 for one song.

When she first started performing again after our marriage, she came home one night and started shaking money out of her guitar, no coins, in The US if it won’t fold, don’t offer it as a tip. She looked at me and grinned and said, “You never want them to know how much you are making.” Periodically through the night, she would take some of the money out of the cup and put it in her guitar. If some of the owner’s saw a lot of money in the tip cup, that is when they would try to reduce her regular pay.

From the description of your tastes in music I believe your would probably enjoy hearing Doris sing. Her repertoire is primarily romantic Latin songs, nothing loud. She only knows four songs in English.

A professional entertainer might stroll among the tables periodically, but they will never stop and impose themselves on you unless you indicate that you want them to, when you do that, you have just obligated yourself for a tip. They are not begging for money, they are working for it.

To give an idea of how tiring it can be to sing professionally, try this: Stand in your living room for three hours, don’t sit, stand. Now while standing, inhale as deeply and as fast as you can, and exhale as slowly as you can, using your diaphragm. While you are doing this, imagine that you are using your memory to recall the lyrics to a song, while playing the song on your guitar from memory.

If you hyperventilate after an hour or two, run into the kitchen and put a brown paper bag over your face. Breathe into it for five minutes while your body dissipates the excess oxygen, or until you stop feeling dizzy.

Now return to the living room and continue the breathing exercise. After three hours try to tell me you aren’t exhausted.

Rex








"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Feb 2, 2007, 11:48 AM)


esperanza

Feb 2, 2007, 11:23 AM

Post #33 of 44 (5064 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Tipping

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We-all in Guadalajara pretty much follow the norm of Morelia: 10% in fondas, 12-15% in fancy eateries, 2 pesos to the bag boy and the street corner windshield washers, 5 pesos to the gas station attendant if s/he checks air, water, and cleans the windshield. Five pesos to the guy who 'watches' my car, no tip if he washes it while he's watching it--he gets paid for the wash. Two pesos to parking lot attendants IF they help me get in or out of the lot--i.e., make sure there's no oncoming traffic, stop traffic if it looks interminable, etc.

It's taken me a long time to get here, but I am finally comfortable with how I handle street begging. It seemed to me that I was judging who was 'worthy' of receiving money, and I don't want to make that judgment. I give 1 peso to anyone who asks for money. It's an amount that allows me to give to everyone, all the time, and I don't have to decide in the moment who to give to or what to give. We are all worthy, and we are all in need--if not financially, then in other ways.

What the person who receives my money does with it is on his/her nickle, as it were.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Feb 2, 2007, 11:27 AM)


Anonimo

Feb 2, 2007, 12:19 PM

Post #34 of 44 (5038 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Tipping

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I too, dislike live entertainment while I dine. But just because it's not something I requested is no reason to withhold a tip. Instead, I try to go out to eat at places that don't have live entertainment, or I try to go at hours when there isn''t any available.

The most unappealing live entertainment is when a singer(s) or musician(s) stops at our table and attempts to serenade us. I consider that very intrusive.



Saludos,
Anonimo


Anonimo

Feb 2, 2007, 12:21 PM

Post #35 of 44 (5036 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Tipping

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We'd like to believe that at least part of a cover charge goes to the performers. But can we know that for sure?
Tip.



Saludos,
Anonimo


wendy devlin

Feb 2, 2007, 3:57 PM

Post #36 of 44 (4999 views)

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Re: [RexC] Tipping

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Rex,

Have quite enjoyed your description of your wife's experiences with singing and tipping. Gather from the comment about $500 tips from fishermen, that this happened when she worked in Alaska.

Although it could happen in Mexico...right time, right place:)

However I'm basing this comment upon the meeting of several Mexicans, who worked the fishing/cannery season in Alaska and returned annually to fiestas in their home-towns in Mexico and several Alaska fisher-folk met while Rving during winters in Mexico. Some even drove...south/north annually!

My kin on my father's side number among the first non-native fishing-folk to immigrate to Prince Rupert, British Columbia, turn of the last century.

They might not have tipped a Mexican singer, but they for sure would have tipped my Icelandic guitar-playing and singing great-granny.


Papirex


Feb 2, 2007, 4:20 PM

Post #37 of 44 (4991 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Tipping

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Yes Wendy, That was in Alaska. Besides being just about the most dangerous occupation in the world, being a fisherman is a feast or famine job. If a fisherman has a good skipper on a lucky boat, they might come back after a month at sea with US$20,000 as their share of the catch.

After a month at sea with limited sleep, and 20 grand burning a hole on their pocket, many of them will pull out all the stops to let off pressure. Big tips from some of the fishermen are not unusual up there.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Bloviator

Feb 3, 2007, 6:17 AM

Post #38 of 44 (4941 views)

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Re: [RexC] Tipping

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I also agree that passing the jar is not a good idea. My wife did it one time and has seen the error of her ways. Some nights, she is tempted, but manages to hold herself in check.


Gringal

Feb 4, 2007, 4:00 PM

Post #39 of 44 (4863 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] Tipping

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Interesting comments, all.

My take on this is that anyone who was not raised in a remote cave is aware that tipping at least 10% in a full restaurant setting is the decent thing to do. Cheapskates are not about to change their ways by gentle persuasion or strongarming methods. They know better, but like many areas of life, that does not lead to "doing" better. The appropriate circle of hell for such folks would be doing a long stint as a waitperson.


arbon

Feb 4, 2007, 5:47 PM

Post #40 of 44 (4849 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Tipping

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"My take on this is that anyone who was not raised in a remote cave is aware that tipping at least 10% in a full restaurant setting is the decent thing to do."

Where is this hypothetical "Remote Cave" with "full restaurant setting"?

In Mexico or the States perhaps?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



(This post was edited by arbon on Feb 4, 2007, 5:52 PM)


bournemouth

Feb 4, 2007, 6:24 PM

Post #41 of 44 (4830 views)

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Re: [arbon] Tipping

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Was there a connection between the phrase "remote cave" and the phrase "full restaurant setting" or is your imagination working overtime?


VSOP

Feb 4, 2007, 6:31 PM

Post #42 of 44 (4828 views)

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Re: [mazgordon] Tipping

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Maybe a guideline to tipping can be found in this quote from Flannery O'Connor (the famed writer from Milledgeville, Georgia): When in Rome, do as you done in Milledgeville.


No hay rosas sin espinas . . .


Gringal

Feb 4, 2007, 8:25 PM

Post #43 of 44 (4797 views)

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Re: [arbon] Tipping

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C'mon guys. You know what I mean. Tipping is not about canoes. These folks that wait on us are not getting paid well. How will it hurt us to give them a decent tip?


tonyburton


Feb 4, 2007, 8:34 PM

Post #44 of 44 (4792 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Tipping

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Enough about tipping... I'm locking the thread in the hopes that we can move on to more interesting discussions...
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