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bournemouth

Dec 30, 2006, 10:59 AM

Post #26 of 44 (2683 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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I'm sorry you had to do this but it seems that you did what was necessary. Just remember that she had some good time with people who loved her which compensated, in some fashion, for the bad times she had earlier. It takes a lot of courage to do what you did.

Oscar2

Dec 30, 2006, 11:18 AM

Post #27 of 44 (2677 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Ditto..

ms mac

Dec 30, 2006, 11:22 AM

Post #28 of 44 (2673 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Bubba, I'm sure this was a difficult decision for you and Brigitte. Part of being animal owners. The sad part.
ms mac

caroljruby

Dec 30, 2006, 3:10 PM

Post #29 of 44 (2647 views)

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Re: [ms mac] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Bubba's problem with his Neopolitan Mastiff reminded me of an article I read in The Australian Cattle Dog Annual (1996) titled "The Abuse Excuse" by Susan Strickland. She writes, "People assume abuse in all sorts of cases where the dog just isn't right genetically. And, in spite of all that is written about socialization (which I also feel is very important to a dog's development to his full potential), or the developmental stages in a dog's life, or exposing him to all sorts of different stimuli (sights, sounds, etc.), you will NEVER change the base temperment of an unsound dog and make him sound. You may hide it, camouflage it, cover it up and bury it under so much socialization that no one can tell it's there, but IT IS ALWAYS THERE." A dog who is dog-aggressive or human-aggressive is dangerous. Why give someone else your problem?

(This post was edited by caroljruby on Dec 30, 2006, 3:11 PM)

Rolly

Dec 30, 2006, 3:17 PM

Post #30 of 44 (2641 views)

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Re: [caroljruby] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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I agree, Carol. My first pit bull was a loving sweetheart with me, but by the time she was 9 months old, it was obvious that she was a danger to others -- people and dogs. I decided not to wait for trouble and had her put down. I was sorry to do that, but I felt it very unwise to keep her or to pass the problem to someone else.

I would also like to say that I offered to take Bubba's dog. After he discussed the dog with his vet, he decline my offer because he though it unwise. I appreciate his honesty.

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 30, 2006, 3:21 PM)

caroljruby

Dec 30, 2006, 3:30 PM

Post #31 of 44 (2635 views)

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Re: [Rolly] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Rolly, It's true that various websites stress that you should not bring a Pit Bull into a dog park/run after the age of nine months. The Pit Bull may not start the fight but he will finish it and he will win. Pit bulls do not have locking jaws (that's a myth) but they do have very strong jaws and they will not let go. I know, since I have a rescued dog who was savagely attacked by a Pit Bull in Brooklyn, NY five years ago. Thank God, she survived.

Bubba

Dec 30, 2006, 4:04 PM

Post #32 of 44 (2626 views)

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Re: [caroljruby] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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caroljuby & Rolly:

Thank you both for your observations.

This killer instinct that our neo had that caused her to fight to the death with abandon is what scared the hell out of us. Fine - fight ´till the other dog is cowed but this need to bite the throat to achieve a kill was more than we could take. Anyway, we are now wiser.

It´s one of God´s little amusements. The older we get the wiser we get and the less time we have to apply our wisdom. Who was the French singer who said that by the time you learn how to live it´s too late?

(This post was edited by Bubba on Dec 30, 2006, 4:05 PM)

caroljruby

Dec 30, 2006, 4:12 PM

Post #33 of 44 (2622 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Bubba, what have you decided to do?

esperanza

Dec 30, 2006, 4:42 PM

Post #34 of 44 (2608 views)

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Re: [caroljruby] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Carol, please read all of Page 1 of this thread--this is Page 2.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

caroljruby

Dec 30, 2006, 5:03 PM

Post #35 of 44 (2600 views)

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Re: [esperanza] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Esperanza, I've read page 1. Training cannot change the basic temperament of a dog. A lot of problems are due to genetics. I had a German Shepherd who was aggressive toward men and other dogs. He bit three men and I had a lot of close calls. I loved this dog (he was loyal and he loved me with all his heart). But he caused me so much stress and I was afraid I would get sued. i sent him to a professional trainer ($1500.00 dollars) for five weeks. I took him to obedience training classes for many weeks. He did not change -- he just had a poor temperament. I gave up and had him euthanized.

Gringal

Dec 30, 2006, 5:12 PM

Post #36 of 44 (2594 views)

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Re: [caroljruby] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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" I am sorry to tell you that, upon the strong advice of our vet, who dearly loved that dog, we had her put to sleep before, as the vet said, something terrible happened. "
_________________________________________

...from page one: Bubba's post

sfmacaws

Dec 30, 2006, 5:38 PM

Post #37 of 44 (2587 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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My sympathies to you both, it's the right thing to do but it is never easy. I've had to do it myself with a Doberman I loved dearly, she wouldn't stop killing/trying to kill other animals. You are absolutely right that it is irresponsible to pass the problem on to others, I couldn't do that either. Such sorrow, I still get pangs about her and will always wonder if there wasn't something else I could have tried. I don't think there was but the nagging thought continues. I hope it helps some to realize that you did the humane thing for her and everyone else.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

dtracy8671

Dec 30, 2006, 7:48 PM

Post #38 of 44 (2571 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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I am so sorry it had to end like this, but you really had no choice. Unfortunately, adopting older, mistreated dogs can lead to an outcome like this all to often, and I compliment you for having the courage to do something before someone was hurt very badly. Putting a dog down is one of the hardest things us dog lovers can do, and my heart goes out to you.

Donna

caroljruby

Dec 31, 2006, 3:07 AM

Post #39 of 44 (2553 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Adopting an older, mistreated dog doesn't often lead to this outcome. In "Successful Dog Adoption," Sue Sternberg writes, "But it's a trainer or behaviorist's nightmare to be hired by an owner with an aggression problem, because aggressiveness is a temperament problem, not a training problem, and is virtually incurable..."bad" people do not create "bad" dogs...aggression is a component of a dog's temperament, and temperament is mostly what a dog is born with...aggression is not "curable"; it cannot be dissolved with love, kindness or understanding." It's extremely sad, painful, difficult to have to make that decision -- to end the life of a friend. But it's the most responsible and humane option.

(This post was edited by caroljruby on Dec 31, 2006, 3:09 AM)

lmaxine

Dec 31, 2006, 12:31 PM

Post #40 of 44 (2510 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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I'm so sorry you had to put down the dog, Bubba. I'm sure it was the right decision to make under the circumstances, but surely it must have been so difficult. My condolences.
"He upon whose heart the dust of Mexico has lain will find no peace in any other land." Malcolm Lowry

dtracy8671

Dec 31, 2006, 12:50 PM

Post #41 of 44 (2508 views)

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Re: [caroljruby] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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I am sorry if you misunderstood me for I used the word "can". I did not say "always".

I do not know who Sue Sternberg is, but I am 100% sure Cesar Milan would not agree with her statement. Milan is the "Dog Whisperer" on the National Geographic Channel, and I highly recommend dog lovers watch his show when they get a chance. He has done some amazing things with pit bulls, rottweillers, and very agressive, bad temperment dogs. He works with a "pack" and trains people to become pack leaders. Please try to catch his show if possible, you will get some amazing, simple tricks to apply with dogs.

Bubba

Dec 31, 2006, 1:10 PM

Post #42 of 44 (2505 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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dtracy:

We would also recommend Cesar Milan and watch his show every week. It was actually Cesar who convinced us that long walks with the pack might be a cure for our neo. The walks helped tremendously, just not enough.

As much as I like Cesar, if he had walked up behind the animal we are discussing and pinched her on the butt making those funny noises he likes to make, he would have been toast.

Thanks for your kind words IMaxine

caroljruby

Dec 31, 2006, 3:48 PM

Post #43 of 44 (2484 views)

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Re: [dtracy8671] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Sorry about the misunderstanding. Sue Sternberg, an expert in dog aggression and one of the foremost authorities on shelter adoption in the U.S., is an innovator in the field of shelter dog welfare. She created Assess-a-Pet, a method to evaluate animal temperament. This test (series of tests) is used in many shelters. Her work with dogs was the subject of an HBO documentary --"Shelter Dogs" in 2004. She has an animal shelter in upstate New York. Cesar Milan is young, dynamic, energetic and very TALENTED. I've read his book, watched some of his shows and went to his lecture in New York City last September. I've used some of his ideas with my own pack of three. Unfortunately, most of us don't have the special gifts of Milan. He has done some incredible work with his "red-zone" dogs. There are many dog trainers in the U.S. who don't like him. They say he is cruel, but I think they're jealous. Of course, there are many, too, who don't like Sue Sternberg. Her test is very strict and dogs who don't pass it (aggressive ones) are euthanized. Dogs are one of my favorite subjects as well as Spanish, travel, books and music. I'm glad I found this website because I love La Republica, it's so full of magic!

Sherrill

Jan 2, 2007, 6:14 PM

Post #44 of 44 (2425 views)

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Re: [Bubba] On Neopolitan Mastiffs

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Just want to add that you did the right thing, Bubba, and understand how tough it must have been. My grandfather raised dogs and horses and always said that you can't let your emotions get in the way of putting an animal down: respect the animal. They should neither live in pain beyond their time nor cause danger to others. He died 24 years ago at 102 years old and I always think of him when I have to make a difficult decision. Remember that you gave this dog the best life he could have had and don't forget it.

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