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Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)




gabrielin

May 2, 2016, 2:16 PM

Views: 4754

Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Hello, all. It's been a really long time since I have been on the MexConnect forums and even though I wasn't here much, I was often a lurker. I would like to contribute my experiences to help others as I have a little in the past, but right now I have a semi-complicated (IMHO) question. I have been living in Mexico for quite some time (near the U.S. border where a resident visa isn't required if you're in and out every 72 hours... which I was... but that's not mentioned to INM). Now, I've been in Mexico City for almost two years.

Anyhow, I've had my residente temporal card for almost two years because I've been married to a Mexican citizen for going on 3 years. We are gay, but married in Mexico City and it has no impact on pretty much anything, but I just wanted to throw that out there. My residente temporal card is going to expire in July, so I don't have to start the process until next month. However, I would like to become a naturalized citizen (since I do qualify after two years of being married to a Mexican citizen).

What I'm trying to get at is: I'd like to know if it is necessary for me to renew my temporary resident card, switch to a permanent resident card (which I'll be eligible for), or can I just start the naturalization process and let the temporary resident visa expire? I speak fluent Spanish, I'm pretty knowledgeable about Mexican history, but will study for the test, and I understand there are fees.

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before and I would go to my great cyber friend Rolly, but unfortunately I have read that he has moved on to a better place now (RIP). :*(

If anyone could help me out with some information, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance. <3



Maesonna

May 2, 2016, 7:41 PM

Views: 4726

Re: [gabrielin] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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It says on the SRE pageacrediten una residencia en territorio nacional con la tarjeta expedida por la Secretaría de Gobernación que acredite la condición de estancia de residente temporal, o con la tarjeta que acredite la condición de estancia de residente permanente, cuando menos durante los últimos dos ańos inmediatos anteriores a la fecha de su solicitud,” which sounds to me like you need a resident visa that is current at the time of application, and you already have to have completed two years.

If no one else here can help, you could go to the SRE office where you would process your naturalization and ask. If you do it before renewing your visa you’ll know for sure whether you have to go through with the renewal or not.



viktoremski


May 3, 2016, 9:55 AM

Views: 4691

Re: [gabrielin] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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You definitely need to have two full years of residency to apply. Your residente card cannot be expired at the moment of application, and I believe you will need to keep your residente status valid until you receive your citizenship. Simply ask the SRE official when you apply, and if you still have doubts, ask at your local INM. But to me it seems obvious that you need to have your visa valid throughout the whole process, to be able to remain legally in Mexico. Good luck!



YucaLandia


May 3, 2016, 10:42 AM

Views: 4684

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Vikton & Maesonna are on the right tracks.

There are lots of good posts on this on 2 other threads to find more details on Mexconnect.

Check out John Shrall's posts and Yucalandia's posts at:

http://www.mexconnect.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

and

http://www.mexconnect.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Happy Trails,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 3, 2016, 10:42 AM)



gabrielin

May 3, 2016, 7:02 PM

Views: 4654

Re: Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Thank you for all of your information. You guys have been very helpful. I'll go ahead and request to convert my temporal to permanente before it expires and start the naturalization process. Thank you. :)



viktoremski


May 4, 2016, 10:44 AM

Views: 4621

Re: [gabrielin] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I think you could also obtain another (3rd) year of temporal, it's cheaper than permanente, and once you have it, apply for citizenship. Again, SRE officials are usually more helpful than INM, you can ask them for advise.



Maesonna

May 4, 2016, 11:03 AM

Views: 4618

Re: [gabrielin] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Yes, note what viktoremski said: there does not appear to be any reason for you to change from temporal to permanente, and the temporal renewal is cheaper and potentially faster.



Maesonna

May 4, 2016, 11:07 AM

Views: 4617

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Again, SRE officials are usually more helpful than INM, you can ask them for advise.

It’s not just a matter of helpfulness but professional knowledge; INM has no responsibility for citizenship matters, and any INM official who gives you ‘advice’ on the subject is just giving their personal opinion, which may or may not be based on fact. Nationalization isn’t their purview.



AlanMexicali


May 4, 2016, 2:48 PM

Views: 4596

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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In Reply To
I think you could also obtain another (3rd) year of temporal, it's cheaper than permanente, and once you have it, apply for citizenship. Again, SRE officials are usually more helpful than INM, you can ask them for advise.


The difference in cost isn´t much and the Residente Permanente is better in 2 ways. IMO.

1. It should be an indication to SRE employees you want to stay in Mexico permanently, not temporarily.

2. If your citizenship application doesn´t go through as planned you still are a permanent resident and done with INM.

To save a few dollars I wouldn´t get a renewal of my RT visa.


(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on May 4, 2016, 2:49 PM)



viktoremski


May 5, 2016, 9:08 AM

Views: 4554

Re: [AlanMexicali] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Sure, you've got a good point there. Still, as a permanente, you're not completely done with INM. Every time you move, change employment, marital status, or plan a vacation abroad, you're supposed to inform them ;-(



mcm

May 5, 2016, 11:44 AM

Views: 4534

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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 I agree that Residentes Permanentes must notify INM about changes in marital status or address, but disagree that INM must be notified if you plan a vacation out of Mexico.

Of course you show your residency card and fill out a form when you leave (and show the form when you re-enter), but that is done at the time of leaving the country (airport, for example), and doesn't require any special trip to INM office. At least that's my understanding...



RuralPuebla

May 5, 2016, 3:52 PM

Views: 4521

Re: [mcm] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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That is also my understanding.

Since there is very small possibility that I will ever want to move to another house, the move is not on the list. I do not expect to marry again, since we have been together 40 years. If my wife dies before I do, not likely but possible, I am Mexican enough to engage in what I call private marriage. They call Free Union.

A lot of NA don't fully understand that a man at my age need not live alone. In a small village, there will always be young widows or abandoned women, and old men are not automatically hated here. I would say around 5% of women do not mind an older man, if he is educated, takes baths, is not a lush and treats them with respect.

Also, at this time, no plans to work. So that is out.

All that is left is if I lose my card or its stolen.

I am very happy with Permanent Residence. Elated is a better term.



La Isla


May 5, 2016, 7:41 PM

Views: 4503

Re: [mcm] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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In Reply To
I agree that Residentes Permanentes must notify INM about changes in marital status or address, but disagree that INM must be notified if you plan a vacation out of Mexico.

Of course you show your residency card and fill out a form when you leave (and show the form when you re-enter), but that is done at the time of leaving the country (airport, for example), and doesn't require any special trip to INM office. At least that's my understanding...


I agree that you don't need to notify INM when leaving Mexico for a vacation. I've had my RP card for several years and just show to the official at the INM desk at the airport when I've going to fly out of the country.



La Isla


May 5, 2016, 7:43 PM

Views: 4501

Re: [RuralPuebla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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In Reply To


A lot of NA don't fully understand that a man at my age need not live alone. In a small village, there will always be young widows or abandoned women, and old men are not automatically hated here. I would say around 5% of women do not mind an older man, if he is educated, takes baths, is not a lush and treats them with respect.


Too bad the same isn't true for women "of a certain age" looking for someone to shack up with. :)



viktoremski


May 6, 2016, 10:58 AM

Views: 4444

Re: [mcm] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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It just works a little different when you leave Mexico on foot, and take a plane from a US airport. There is no INM check out at the pedestrian crossing in San Ysidro. So, in order to avoid problems when coming back, again on foot, into Mexico, you possibly have to visit Tijuana's INM before your trip, and notify them that you are leaving. I haven't done that myself, so I might be wrong, but again, when you leave Mexico on foot, you don't get the opportunity to check out like you do at the airport.



skier14

May 6, 2016, 3:02 PM

Views: 4426

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I have passed through the San Ysido port of entry by foot going into the US and by bus from San Diego to TJ Airport. I have always asked at either the TJ Airport INM or the upstairs office of INM, on the right, at the white gate entrance to the US. I have always been told by Spanish and English speaking INM officers not to worry as long as I am returning to Mexico via San Ysidro/Tijuana. Never have had a problem on the return trip. My trips used to be every 3 months after open-heart by-pass at VA Hospital, San Diego for a couple years and then again every 3 months for a year after a cancerous kidney removal process, then every 6 months and now since Sept 2015, once a year. Unless I hear different from someone at INM, I'll just keep picking up my card at Guadalajara Airport INM and going along as usual. I always have the card filled out in case I am asked for it.



RuralPuebla

May 6, 2016, 4:07 PM

Views: 4420

Re: [La Isla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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"Too bad the same isn't true for women "of a certain age" looking for someone to shack up with. :)"

That is too true. Where I live, I do not see women "of a certain age" marrying. Never.

I have been asked over the years by women where they can go for extreme male attention such as men can find in Mexico or Central America, Thailand.

There is actually such a place for women. Coldfoot, Alaska. I am very serious. The big negative is the cold, dark winters. Off-topic so no more details here.

By the way, cohabitation in Mexico is different than shacking up, for the Mexicans, in my experience.

In the USA, couples will tell you, "We are not married. We are only living together."

In Mexico, my wife's best friend told us that at least half the couples she knows in this village are not legally married. But, they do consider themselves married, and so do the neighbors and family. They refer to each other as husband and wife, or my man or my woman, which means the same thing. My wife's aunt and uncle were together in Free Union for over 70 years. They died within 72 hours.

It is called Free Union. I personally call it Private Marriage. No couple is more married than a couple which thinks it is married. And, no couple is more divorced than a couple which thinks it is divorced.

We are all products of our cultures, and I, too, thought living together without legal marriage was immoral. After more years of exposure, I no longer feel that way, but I do understand most people will retain their cultural bias about it. It sure took me a long time to get past my own.



chinagringo


May 6, 2016, 4:11 PM

Views: 4418

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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The only consistency in Mexico is its inconsistency! Do yourself a favor and refrain from assuming that what happens at one particular crossing will repeat at each and every crossing along the borders or at airports.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




skier14

May 6, 2016, 7:50 PM

Views: 4404

Re: [chinagringo] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I didn't mention anything regarding assumption only my experiences, thank you.



chinagringo


May 6, 2016, 7:54 PM

Views: 4403

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Did you stop to think that maybe my comment was directed at someone who might read your experience and assume it would be that way everywhere? You know what works for you but it may not work for someone else in a different circumstance or place?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




viktoremski


May 9, 2016, 11:07 AM

Views: 4289

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I agree with you, in the past you were able to walk back into Mexico without anybody harassing you. Things have changed however. There is a new San Ysidro pedestrian crossing into Mexico, where INM officials randomly stop people, and send them to INM agents who are equipped with computers and check their data on INM system. Possibly, you might have a problem, if you are coming back with lots of luggage (meaning, you were out on a long trip), and don't have an earlier record of checking out of Mexico.



skier14

May 9, 2016, 12:17 PM

Views: 4277

Re: [viktoremski] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I most recently returned in Feb 2016. Remember by bus from San Diego to TJ airport. No extra inspection. Two large duffle bags plus carry-on, no problems at INM baggage check. This was probably my 8th time going this route. This is my experience only. Don't let it be taken as the Gospel.



viktoremski


May 10, 2016, 8:55 AM

Views: 4228

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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As you said, by bus. I'm talking about the pedestrian crossing.



Aaron+

May 10, 2016, 10:09 AM

Views: 4211

Re: [RuralPuebla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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If the expatriate spouse really cares for his Union Libre wife, he is not doing her any favor by avoiding a legal marriage. When death hits, the surviving spouse may find it very inconvenient NOT to have a formal Mexican state marriage certificate, as for funeral arrangements and property matters,

What passes in a rural setting may be quite different from matters in the big city, including the relevant Mexican state capital.



RuralPuebla

May 12, 2016, 9:55 PM

Views: 4154

Re: [Aaron+] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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I would not be surprised if there were differences between rural and big city, not just in marriage or Free Union, but in many areas of life. For sure out here, the entire family may well be involved in funeral arrangements, whether the wife is legal or private. They simply make things happen. The only difficult part is getting the death certificate filled out and the permit to bury, and often a male family member will take care of that. If you mean the Free Union Wife does not have total control over funeral arrangements, that is certainly true, but neither does the legal wife. That is not how things work in this country, except perhaps among the rich or expats.

I am not real confident that one person can set up rules for other people that define when a person cares for another person.

As far as women losing property rights w/o legal marriage, it's a different culture. Those strict property rights are much more common in English speaking nations. Women have a strong need to feel protected by those laws. In Mexico, the woman looks to the family for protection and care. If her deceased husband does not leave her anything, she knows in most cases her family or even his will take care of her and the kids. And, that I have seen also in Mexico City.



skier14

May 13, 2016, 10:19 AM

Views: 4285

Re: [RuralPuebla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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That is the reason our car, house and its possessions are in my wife's name only.



ifyoucanttakeajoke


May 13, 2016, 10:42 AM

Views: 4283

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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In Reply To
That is the reason our car, house and its possessions are in my wife's name only.

I am assuming you and your wife have been together for many, many years with absolutely no chance of future strife?



skier14

May 13, 2016, 7:42 PM

Views: 4246

Re: [ifyoucanttakeajoke] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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We have been together for only 17 yrs with lots of strife, passed, current and I assume future. Male contra female. When I bought the house 16 years ago, it went in her name.



RuralPuebla

May 13, 2016, 7:43 PM

Views: 4245

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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"That is the reason our car, house and its possessions are in my wife's name only."

I missed it. What is the reason your car; house; and its possession are in your wife's name only? Of course, this wouldn't be our business but you mentioned it. And, I didn't fully understand.

A few years ago, a local attorney in my village had some sort of legal problems. So he signed everything over to his wife. She promptly sued for divorce and got every last cent and stick.

In most, perhaps all, states in Mexico there are two choices for a marriage and property. First, is full joint ownership of everything, such as exists in Texas.

Second, there is a provision for separate property. This document is signed at the time of a legal marriage, much like a prenup we talk about in the USA. If that document does not exist, it is joint property by default.

Those who were married out of nation naturally do not have those documents because US law does not provide for such documents valid in Mexico.

I must assume you know more about your circumstances than I do. But, at the same time I a not sure you can give her marital property in her full name. If she wants to sell, for example, the house or real property there is a chance the notary will note you are married and demand your signature, too. I am not sure of this, but I suggest based on things I have seen this might be the case.

And, no matter how long you are married, there is always the reality that we never know fully what is in another person's heart. I was married nearly 40 years when my wife tried to pull a fast one on me, and I am not posting the details here. She learned she could not, exactly as I described above.



RuralPuebla

May 13, 2016, 7:48 PM

Views: 4242

Re: [skier14] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Crossed posting. Sorry. I was here as a tourist when we bought the land and built the house. so, to make things easy we just put it in her name as she is a Mexican citizen. We found out some years later that being married without separate property documents it doesn't matter if her name is on the escrituras. I am still considered a joint owner by law. I suspect that is the case with you but that is only a wild guess.



rockydog85251

May 14, 2016, 5:49 AM

Views: 4228

Re: [RuralPuebla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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When I was selling real estate in Mazatlan, I had a transaction where the wife DID have separate ownership papers, but the well-known notario insisted that the husband, who was not a pleasant person, sign a document as well. I'm not sure what it was called, but I'm sure the notario was covering everyone's backside.
Willie



RuralPuebla

May 15, 2016, 7:43 PM

Views: 4193

Re: [rockydog85251] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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Sounds like it. Heh, heh.



RuralPuebla

May 15, 2016, 7:47 PM

Views: 4192

Re: [RuralPuebla] Residente Temporal to Naturalización (Married to Mexican)

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At the other extreme, my wife's aunt and her Free Union husband of around 72 years (they were in their 90's) died. Not long before that the uncle FU husand was selling land. The notary said that due to the very long time, the more than 70 years, he was treating her as a joint owner even though they were not legally married. So, the paperwork had to be done in that manner.