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electric




tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 5:17 AM

Views: 15551

electric

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The word is on Cozumel that the governement wants to raise electric rates. There is a petition going around 10,000 people must sign it to have it brought to congress

Tony



johanson


Sep 25, 2011, 6:49 AM

Views: 15523

Re: [tonynico] electric

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Tony I'm confuse. CFE, the electric Utility, has been increasing the cost of electricity an average of about 12% per year since I started checking over 10 years ago. Go to the CFE web-page and and look at the historic charges. The cost per KWH has been going up for as many years as they show.



stevebrtx

Sep 25, 2011, 8:10 AM

Views: 15503

Re: [johanson] electric

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Last time I researched it a couple of months ago, if you're in the DAC rate, you're in elite company, I believe only 3 other countries in the entire world have higher rates, so guess CFE isn't satisfied with being in 4th place.



tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 10:46 AM

Views: 15462

Re: [johanson] electric

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I am confused that your confused.
Another rate hike is coming and there are those against it.
I believe the rates here on Cozumel are more then other zones
Most people here can't afford to use AC they only use it to sleep at night.
So why the confusion I guess people are saying enough.

Tony



johanson


Sep 25, 2011, 3:22 PM

Views: 15428

Re: [tonynico] electric

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Now friend :) You have me even more confused. If you are talking about the DAC rate, that is very high, so high that I invested in photo voltaic solar panels and rather than paying more than 4 pesos per KWH at DAC (and the monthly fijo{spelling}) I am paying about 80 centavos per KWH because I am being subsidized by the Mexican government.

Yes the user who does not receive a government subsidy to help pay for his electricity pays on h*ll of a lot per unit of electricity especially if you come from places like Seattle where I do, where the fuel to run the electric generators is free. Yes, up there we use water, coming down the mountains and running of the dams, and its free.

I have seen charts in Mexico showing that they have to pay for almost all of the fuel and that almost 80% of the fuel used to create electricity in Mexico comes from fossil fuels which are not cheap. And some suggest that because CFE is almost a monopoly that they aren't that efficient. But I'm not stating that, because I have no idea

I just know that my pay back time for my investment has been worked out to be less than 8 years. Perhaps 6.

Yes, my last bill was $7,900 but that was centavos, you know $79 pesos for two months. That beats the more than $5000 pesos I have had to pay in the past every (or almost every) two months.



tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 4:14 PM

Views: 15414

Re: [johanson] electric

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I am so glad you are paying 79 pesos but it is not relevant to the thread
In yyCozumel we pay a higher rate then most other places and to go into Dac it does not take much.
So my original statement was that the gov't is looking for a rate hike and people are taking up a petition.
They feel the rates here are way to high so high that people only use the A.C. to sleep
I find nothing confusing about what I said.
Maybe one day everyone can afford solar panels until that day I guess we just have to pay and pay and pay.
But please don't be confused by my thread
One last thing 8ys to break even at my age of your age is a gamble you can be dead before you recoup and that money you spent could have been invested to make more money. There are some good investments still out there

Tony


(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 4:38 PM)



Bennie García

Sep 25, 2011, 4:36 PM

Views: 15410

Re: [tonynico] electric

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In Reply To
The word is on Cozumel that the governement wants to raise electric rates. There is a petition going around 10,000 people must sign it to have it brought to congress

Tony


Good for them and good luck to them.

Anything else we should know?



DavidHF

Sep 25, 2011, 4:43 PM

Views: 15409

Re: [Bennie García] electric

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Tony, the "Government" doesn't "look for" rate hikes, CFE simply raise the rates. Just like on gasoline and propane. It is what it is.



whynotwrite

Sep 25, 2011, 5:14 PM

Views: 15398

Re: [tonynico] electric

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People who are not Mexican Nationals should not be signing petitions as far as I am concerned.



Marlene


Sep 25, 2011, 6:11 PM

Views: 15378

Re: [DavidHF] electric

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http://www.dqr.com.mx/...a-tarifas-electricas

The folks in Quintana Roo are up in arms over the rating classifications. The article is in Spanish but I couldn't find anything written in English. In Quintana Roo (it's not just a Cozumel thing) 75% of the consumers are classified at Tarifa 1B, and they want to be reclassified to 1C or 1D. Tarifa 1B doesn't allow for much usage before kicking into the high user/business rates of DAC.

We, in Mazatlan, are on 1D, and our Governor promised us before summer that he had finally gotten our area reclassified to 1F (which would be a dream rating for summer usage) after a year or so of working on it. Still waiting, and we don't really believe it's going to happen.

This webpage is helpful to see what the rates are in each classification and how they are arrived at (local temperatures). The thing they don't take into account is the humidity factor in summer.

http://www.cfe.gob.mx/.../Conocetutarifa.aspx



tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 7:16 PM

Views: 15356

Re: [Marlene] electric

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CRE is run by the gov't so same difference as far as I see it.
And the last person who posted was correct if you watch tv and have one light bulb on your in Dac
So yes it is a situation that is of concern to all who are down here.
As far as signing petitions, I understand you are not supposed to get involved politically but as a consumer you have a right to speak out. I myself will not sign the petition but I believe if I did I would have a right to. I am sure they will get the required number of signiatures without me.


(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 7:20 PM)



chinagringo


Sep 25, 2011, 7:56 PM

Views: 15335

Re: [tonynico] electric

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Another fresh "Gringo off the boat or turnip truck" who thinks they can change Mexico! Harsh comment? Maybe? But the reality is that, you will have zero effect and rightfully so because it is their country!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 8:13 PM

Views: 15326

Re: [chinagringo] electric

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I used to think this was a good message board but the more I hang around I find it filled with people that either are braggerts or illiterates or just stupid therefore I am gone
Just for your info if you would have read the entire post including the link to the article the protest is made of Mexicans
You call me a Gringo I call you stupid and illiterate

later for you all I had enough of your elitist bull. I was just posting what is going on in our part of the world but then again some of you need to get the stick out of you know what

Tony


(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 8:16 PM)



Rolly


Sep 25, 2011, 8:21 PM

Views: 15322

Re: [tonynico] electric

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I myself will not sign the petition but I believe if I did I would have a right to.
Wise decision, Tony, because you do not have the right to sign the petition.
You could go the the CFE jefe's office and plead for a rate reclassification; that would be a commercial act.
But signing a petition to the government to take an action is a political act which a non-citizen is not allowed to do.

Rolly Pirate



tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 8:25 PM

Views: 15314

Re: [Rolly] electric

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Rolly
This is not an American thing this is everybody who lives down here tired of the rates that are paid. Nobody likes being fleeced I don't care what color or nationality you are
But I am truly tired of people twisting things to make it sound like the new gringo on the block
I wish you the best and there are others I will miss as well but the majority or at least many or nothing but jerks
I wish you well

Tony



Marlene


Sep 25, 2011, 10:48 PM

Views: 15287

Re: electric

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It's not a matter of anyone being "fleeced". It's the way CFE sets the rates and they have a formula for doing so, based on historically recorded temperatures. If you overuse, based on their tariff rating for your area, you WILL pay. To those thinking of retiring in Mexico, electricity costs in the area you are thinking about moving to, are worth investigating in advance, specifically so there are no such surprises. Use gas dryers and stoves, rather than bringing your electric appliances.


(This post was edited by Marlene on Sep 25, 2011, 10:50 PM)



YucaLandia


Sep 26, 2011, 6:18 AM

Views: 15243

Re: [tonynico] electric

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In Reply To
CRE is run by the gov't so same difference as far as I see it.
And the last person who posted was correct if you watch tv and have one light bulb on your in Dac
So yes it is a situation that is of concern to all who are down here.
As far as signing petitions, I understand you are not supposed to get involved politically but as a consumer you have a right to speak out. I myself will not sign the petition but I believe if I did I would have a right to. I am sure they will get the required number of signiatures without me.


Tony,
The 1B Tarifa billing system is pretty strict, compared to 1C. The $Peso per kW-hr rates are the same for both 1B and 1C, but the tiers of allowed consumption for Basico and Intermedio services are very different.

Here in Merida (1C) we are allowed 150 kW-hr of power at just $0.647 Basico rate before the consumer goes to the Intermedio rate, while your 1B $0.647 rate only allows 125 kWhrs before going into the Intermedio rate.

Here in Merida (1B) we are allowed 300 kW-hr of power at just $0.971 Intermedio rate before the consumer goes to the $2.569 Excedente rate, while your 1B $0.971 rate only allows 75 kWhrs before going into the $2.569 Excedente rate.

This means that you can consume 130 watts per daytime hour every summer day at the cheapest rate (the equivalent of 1 TV) and another 80 watts (the equivalent of a fan) per daytime hour at the second level rate, before getting kicked into the 3X higher Excedente rate.

I can see why you and your neighbors would like cheaper rates: using just a TV or computer and a fan 16 hrs a day to get kicked into the Excedente rates.

Before you completely reject Johanson's approach:
If you use 800 kW-hr (somewhat heavy use) per billing period, before going into the DAC rate, you could save about $1,650 pesos per month with a smallish wind power system, or roughly $120 USD a month. Johansen's point about renewable energy seems to make sense, in that you could pay for a decent $5,000 wind turbine system in 40 months at 25 kWhr per day. If you go into the high usage 400 kW-hr per month DAC rates, you could pay for your turbine in as little as 24-30 months.

40 months or less of cost recovery time, to have free power after that time seems like a decent bargain? You don't even need to have batteries, if you use CFE's plan to install a meter that feeds your extra unused wind/solar generated power back onto the grid. see: http://www.yolisto.com/...r-power/page__st__80 for more info.

Finally, the Mexican Constitution strictly forbids foreigners from participating in any political activities or things that are part of the political process, governance, or government operations.
See: http://www.yucatanliving.com/...affecting-expats.htm

Best of luck with your protests, the breezy beach regions in Yucatan are also in the 1B Tarifa zone, so, your efforts might also affect all of our beach zones.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 26, 2011, 7:28 AM)



robt65

Sep 26, 2011, 6:26 AM

Views: 15240

Re: [Marlene] electric

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Hello Marlene,

Very prudent observation and suggestions. Personalities, preferences, and being spoiled sure aren’t going to pay the bills. Time to really shut up, tighten up and grow up to face the economic facts of life, NOB or here in our adopted Mexico. If one didn't do their homework before moving to their perception of their Shangri-La well that's life. Even gas will go up, hopefully not as high as the electric has. I think that Pete Johansen has the right idea, it is just out of reach financially for a lot of us. “Going Green” is just going to become a fact of our new and very ill abused (by our generation) world.

robt65




sioux4noff

Sep 26, 2011, 7:19 AM

Views: 15228

Re: [Marlene] electric

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Quote
We, in Mazatlan, are on 1D, and our Governor promised us before summer that he had finally gotten our area reclassified to 1F (which would be a dream rating for summer usage) after a year or so of working on it. Still waiting, and we don't really believe it's going to happen.



I live in southern Nayarit on the coast. Our summer climate is similar to Mazatlan. However we are in the Tarifia 1B, where we can use only 400kwh/month average before going into the DAC rate. We can't quite keep our usage that low, even though we try.
We could easily keep within the 1D limit of 1000 kwh/month, and be able to use our A/C a little more. That is 2 1/2 times what we are allowed, with similar climates.
Instead of Mazatlan going to a limit of 1F, a totally ludicrous 2,500 kwh/month, CFE ought to look at other coastal areas such as Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta and bring some equity to the rates. Even in areas such as Lake Chapala, where air conditioning isn't as needed, residents there have a very low usage allowed.
It appears to me that your governor is playing to the wealthy crowd in Sinaloa.


(This post was edited by sioux4noff on Sep 26, 2011, 7:24 AM)



Marlene


Sep 26, 2011, 8:23 AM

Views: 15196

Re: [sioux4noff] electric

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You are absolutely right. The rating territories should be reevaluated. 1B allowances are not adequate for humid coastal regions of the country, where air conditioning is a necessity for sleeping. DAC rates are insane, and it's why many restaurants here close up at this time of year, putting people out of work. What few customers there are, won't go to a restaurant without air conditioning, so it's a vicious cycle.



salto_jorge

Sep 26, 2011, 8:49 AM

Views: 15177

electric

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Has anyone used a "Kill-A-Watt" meter to determine what their electric appliances are using ?
I purchased one and would like to see a comparison between the power usage of US products and Mexican products when running and turned off.

The TV and computer must be disconnected when not using them or they always use electricity.
My surge protected power strip is wasting power if it is left on, yes it is protecting things that should be unplugged.
It uses power even when nothing is plugged into it (last weeks test).

Most chargers are always consuming power at one time or another even when they are not charging anything.
Any other device that has some kind of LCD lamp or light on it like the dvd or vcr etc. has to be unplugged.

I have decided to use the cheap power strips and turn them off after the appliances are powered down as a way to reduce consumption.

Hair dryers and the like plus toasters are all abusers. How about making toast on the grill atop the gas stove.

To conserve we have to keep our computer and monitor powered down when not on line (NO skype or MJ then) plus the UPS.

(Not Spell checked)


(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Sep 26, 2011, 8:51 AM)



YucaLandia


Sep 26, 2011, 9:11 AM

Views: 15164

Re: [salto_jorge] electric

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salto_jorge,
The Kill-a-Watt meter is fun and useful. A double E buddy and I measured all kinds of loads across both our homes. We found that A/C is the heavy hitter at 2,000 - 3,000 watts. Our little water heater comes in second, (1,800W) but my wife uses it just 10 minutes a day to take the chill off her morning shower. Microwave ovens @ 1,600 - 1,700W come in @ third place. Toasters and hairdryers come in fourth (but most people use them for just a few minutes per day). Recently purchased cheap(er) Mexican fans use about 75W - 125W, while more expensive US fans (Vornado) use 40W - 75W to move about the same amount of air. We have some old Panasonic and Electrolux lower speed fans that are almost as efficient as the Vornado at all speeds.

Ceiling fans use a surprising amount of electricity while moving air only slowly - diffuse breezes over wide areas that do not cool the person as effectively as a floor fan, since the ceiling fans mix hot air off the ceiling - raising the room temperature - while floor fans move cool air off the floor, concentrating air flow right at the user.

Ceiling fans made sense back in the 1920's and 1930's when electric motors were expensive and multiple fans would be run off a single long belt. Does it make sense to move the hot air off the ceiling or roof - making it seem cooler due to a little air movement while it raises the room temperature by bringing hot ceiling air or hot roof air down to the levels where people sit?

The 2 newer Mabe fridges we tested used 30% - 50% more energy than their LG (Korean) counterparts. Old GE & Whirlpool fridges use about 3X - 5X more energy in our measurements.

Big screen TVs can be real pigs, but we saw no noticeable differences between US sold models and Mexican sold models. Running a big screen TV (typically at 200W - 250W) for 5 hours would be like running the toaster or hair dryer non-stop for about an hour. (Which means that the hair dryer seems like an energy pig, but the TV likely uses a lot more electricity on a daily basis.)

I've posted our measurements in past Mexconnect posts if you want to compare. Also, here's a site with some basic values: http://michaelbluejay.com/...tricity/howmuch.html .
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 26, 2011, 9:16 AM)



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 9:48 AM

Views: 15142

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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I have had a Kill-A-Watt meter for years, since well before I moved here. The first thing that happens when a new appliance comes into the house is a check to see what it uses. My computer desk which is driven by a 380 amp hour UPS regulator (which uses 25W with nothing plugged in) uses 100W to power the weather station, small camera charging cradle, Dell Zino and monitor and XM radio all of which runs 24/7 for the most part. The TV stereo stack uses another 100 for the TV, 100 for the home theater (normally only one is on) and a regulator at 4 watts. I have all this plugged into the regulator which is switched by an X10 switch. The ShawDirect receiver uses 24 watts on or off, so when I end the day I hit one button and it all gets cut off. The security system also uses about 10 watts.

I've got a couple of small spots on art objects using 1 watt LED spots. The real killer is the pool (which I never use) which must circulate water 3 hrs a day at 3 KWH per day. My total load with security lighting etc. is about 14KWH per day so you can guess how big the CFE's smile is each month.

The problem I have is that, as stated, the CFE is 4th highest in the world, how can so many others generate electricity for so much less - and do it on a very consistent basis - and it's clean power not burning out appliances including regulators? In TX I used 4 times as much and paid about the same or less and only twice in 22 years was the power out.



RickS


Sep 26, 2011, 10:22 AM

Views: 15128

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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"....how can so many others generate electricity for so much less - and do it on a very consistent basis?"

A rhetorical question to which you already know the answer ;>)



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 10:48 AM

Views: 15117

Re: [RickS] electric

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Ah yes, 'tis a privilege to live in MX (except once every two months).

Ok, I'm going to chuck this out in the middle of the floor here and see what falls out. I get a reasonable number of inquiries through the weather site and my blog from people wanting to know "about Mexico" what does it cost etc. I developed what you might call "the Mexican rule of cost". It's simply that the things an average working class Mexican need and buy are cheap, in many cases surprisingly cheap, but if it's something a gringo wants, "needs" or uses, it's going to cost a whole lot more.

We all live with that daily; beans? - cheap, Campbell's P&B's - very pricey. A wireless router Mfg list price $40 (available NOB Amazon $30 including shipping) in MX, about $60USD equivalent pesos. Mexicans don't need wireless routers and they don't need or use much electricity. Think about it, more often than not the "rule" applies.



joaquinx


Sep 26, 2011, 2:19 PM

Views: 2597

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
Mexicans don't need wireless routers and they don't need or use much electricity.


Right, they use a pair of 303 cans linked with string and have gas powered computers.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 2:35 PM

Views: 2586

Re: [joaquinx] electric

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Well, I'll give you this, they all have cell phones. But I'd bet if I went next door where construction is going on and asked the 8 or 10 guys working there what their CFE bills are, they would be cheap by our standards because they don't have or "need" a lot of our toys.

And, that's ok, I'm willing to pay my share, if I drive 20 miles I pay for a gal of gas, if I drive 200, I pay for 10 gals, and when I go to the border I pay proportionately for what I use.

But to be held up as the poster boy for high usage, stripped and flailed every two months really isn't the way to build a national electric system.

You know, it's not rocket science, delivering juice to houses and business's is a fairly basic thing, let's say it's a "proven" technology with lots of references on how to do it right, on how to do it regular and how to do it cheap.



sioux4noff

Sep 26, 2011, 3:18 PM

Views: 2576

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
they don't have or "need" a lot of our toys.


They may want them, but can't afford them.
Same for air conditioing in the house, many would like it, but can't afford it, or the electric bills it would cause



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 3:30 PM

Views: 2570

Re: [sioux4noff] electric

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Very true, but the point is ultimately they don't "buy" and that seems to be the big deliminator between living Mexican and living gringo. There are times I'd love to have AC, in fact I actually have one in my bedroom and I covered it over with picture because I can't afford to use it. In TX I had two 4 ton heat pumps - here I have two fans.

A typical business model encourages growth, the CFE penalizes it, go figure.



johanson


Sep 26, 2011, 3:47 PM

Views: 2568

Re: [tonynico] electric

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I'm sorry I wasn't around much during the last several days, only a few hours on my computer here and there when sitting in an airport. I just returned from the far north.

I'm envious of your electrical rates Tony. Your rates are much lower than ours in the tariff level 1 area which is in the greater Guadalajara area. While, if I understood your posts correctly you are allowed an average or 400 KWH per month before DAC, we are allowed no more than a 250 KWH average before our rates go up (no more than 3000 KWH during the previous 12 month period).

Yet with only 250 KWH per month, there are quite a few frugal members of the community, be they from NOB or locals who are able to keep their usage rates out of DAC. One of the best tools is the Kill-A-Watt meter mentioned above, and doing searches for items that have phantom electrical loads, first on-line (google) and then with your kill-a-watt meter and finally when buying a replacement electrical appliance, light bulb, etc, by going green, you can do much to lower your usage.

For example it was time to upgrade satellite receivers, in the olden days even when off I've had satellite receivers that used up to 33 watts per hour. My new Shaw Direct 600 which only uses about 14 watts when on or off, represents a major drop in power usage
33 watts * 24 * 30 = 24 KWH
14 watts * 24 * 30 = 10 KWH

The same thing with CFLs (13 instead of 60 watts etc) there are so many ways you can decrease your power consumption.

I don't like how much I used to have to pay for electricity. I just know that there is so much you can do to decrease power consumption.

(PS, why the new receiver? Because it receives mpeg 4 signals, the new format to be used By Shaw Direct as it adds HD channels, in the future, and because it only costs $99 new, and because it is much smaller than the old 500 series receivers and has HDMI and and and :) )



morgaine7


Sep 26, 2011, 4:30 PM

Views: 2558

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
But to be held up as the poster boy for high usage, stripped and flailed every two months really isn't the way to build a national electric system.

So you're saying that the Mexican government should subsidize extravagant use of their energy resources? Because that's all the DAC really is, removal of the government subsidy when usage reaches a certain level.

Kate



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 5:29 PM

Views: 2542

Re: [morgaine7] electric

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Now, surely you're old enough that I don't have to teach you math and statistics and how to twist it and make it look like the end result you want to achieve. Government subsidy? - right, what's the criteria for that one? Maybe the first 3KWH are free? I call BS, there is no "subsidy" and God knows, not at nearly 40 cents per KWH.

As stated, I'm willing to pay for my usage, but not to be punished.

Let me tell you a little story that happened two years ago. A big storm felled a tree onto my front gate arch and took out the cement pole with street light (which had never worked since I lived here, I had bought one at Home Depot and installed it myself). So, the Rental office called CFE and asked to come out and disconnect the hot wire feed to the casita so the tree trimmer guys could cut the tree away. It took the CFE 7 days to get out here, by then the weight of the tree had cracked the arch and it had to be reconstructed - $1100USD thank you very much.

Then they loaded the broken pole and when I asked the jefe where the new pole was he said "no new pole" and at the same time another guy was stringing a wire across probably 75'+ to the casita and when he couldn't find a secure connection he wrapped it around a tree limb - I swear to God and I have pics. I said to the el jefe "you can't do that, not even in Mexico" - he smiled, shrugged and got in his truck and drove away. Later when I was in TX I bought, brought down and personally installed a secure mount for the line. And, you want me to cut them some slack? - surely you're kidding me.

I just told a friend about working for a company in Austin in the 90's, it was owned and headed by a MXN national, one of THE 60 families Ross Perot speaks about. He went to a board meeting and asked the board "do we have your confidence?" - one of the senior members leaned back and thought a moment and answered "results count" - we adopted that as our company slogan. My point being that the concepts of excellence, performance and "results" are not alien concepts in Mexico, I've seen it close up and personal. So, when I judge the CFE it's on results, and at this point all I see is poor performance, dirty power and confiscatory rates for people living in the 21st century - all of which makes me wonder where their revenues are being applied - if you get my drift.



morgaine7


Sep 26, 2011, 5:51 PM

Views: 2533

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
Now, surely you're old enough that I don't have to teach you math and statistics and how to twist it and make it look like the end result you want to achieve.

Yes, surely I am, and I agree, there's apparently little of value I can learn from you.

Kate



stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 5:58 PM

Views: 2528

Re: [morgaine7] electric

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Well, I hold an EE degree, but that not withstanding, let's do two things here, first you give a try at explaining why, even at 40 cents per KWH, there needs to be any subsidy of any kind from anyone, when tens of thousands of entities worldwide apparently produce it for less. Then, if you can't give a rational explanation of that, you Email me your address etc and so I can forward my bills to you, apparently you have a greater appreciation, and love, of the CFE than I ever will, as I said, "RESULTS COUNT".



Marlene


Sep 26, 2011, 9:53 PM

Views: 2482

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
Well, I'll give you this, they all have cell phones. But I'd bet if I went next door where construction is going on and asked the 8 or 10 guys working there what their CFE bills are, they would be cheap by our standards because they don't have or "need" a lot of our toys.


The guys on the construction site likely don't have cars either, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of families with 2, 3 and 4 cars, all the "toys" you mention, children in expensive private schools, full-time house help, and of course hefty CFE bills that they don't blink an eye at.


(This post was edited by Marlene on Sep 26, 2011, 9:55 PM)



stevebrtx

Sep 27, 2011, 6:29 AM

Views: 2451

Re: [Marlene] electric

| Private Reply
I'd be surprised, over the past 4 years when I've talked with Mexicans and told them what I was paying their eyes get big. I think the casita is something like 17 cents per KWH which is basic rate. There is no way the CFE would ever tell you the truth, but I'd bet they are making money at that rate and the rest is all gravy.



YucaLandia


Sep 27, 2011, 6:59 AM

Views: 2444

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply

In Reply To
Well, I hold an EE degree, but that not withstanding, let's do two things here, first you give a try at explaining why, even at 40 cents per KWH, there needs to be any subsidy of any kind from anyone, when tens of thousands of entities worldwide apparently produce it for less. Then, if you can't give a rational explanation of that, you Email me your address etc and so I can forward my bills to you, apparently you have a greater appreciation, and love, of the CFE than I ever will, as I said, "RESULTS COUNT".


Steve,
Morgaine's point about Mex. govt. subsidies for residential users does not fit your quote of 40 cents per kW-hr, because your 40 cent rate does not fit what most Mexicans pay.

The current Basico rate is 4.86 cents per kWhr, vs your 40 cent report. (Maybe you mis-read the scientific notation on your calculator?) If you use a typical Mexican amount of electricity, the government then reduces that basic rate by a 78% subsidy to just 1.07 cents per kWhr - which is what we pay for most of our electricity.

The real subsidized rate of 1.07 cents per kWhr is 37X lower that your estimate of 40 cents.

Some of our power is billed at the Intermedio rate of 7.29 cents per kWhr, but that is also given the 78% subsidy which reduces the actual amount we pay to 1.60 cents per kWhr. We've lived here 5 years paying these rates, and have never approached the DAC category where the homeowner loses the subsidies.

Without seeing your power bills, I would guess that you are a heavy power user, and you are in the DAC rate category, which means you never get to see the 76% - 78% subsidy deduction on your bi-monthly bills, and it means that you pay additional surcharges that a relatively small percentage of Mexicans pay.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com



YucaLandia


Sep 27, 2011, 7:21 AM

Views: 2430

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
Steve,
You commented that " tens of thousands of entities worldwide apparently produce it for less " and " results count ", but official numbers don't support the claims. A recent survey of 37 countries in the Americas, Europe, & Asia (not including Mexico) reported the lowest rate of 3.05 cents per kWhr for Ukraine, roughly 3X higher than Mexico's lowest subsidized 1.07 cents per kWhr rate. Denmark comes in next to last at 42.9 and Tonga at 45.7 cents per kWhr. The typical price for most of the countries was between 15 cents - 25 cents per kWhr.

If we calculate the average of the actual rates that most Mexicans pay, you get an average subsidized rate of 1.34 cents per kWhr, which is still 2.3X lower than the cheapest rate reported for 37 countries.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 27, 2011, 7:59 AM)



stevebrtx

Sep 27, 2011, 8:06 AM

Views: 2404

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply
I looked closer at the bills, it's actually worse than I thought. The casita shows cost of production at $3.475p/KWH. If that is actually a true number, then the CFE is truly one of the least efficient producers on planet earth. And then they get a subsidy (see "bill to") I know enough accountants that can make anything fit the bottom line, or maybe "subsidy" has a different meaning in Spanish? - at any rate, that's pathetic and then you load 16% IVA on top of that and it's not a pretty scene. I'd bet a huge chunk of Denmark is tax to support their welfare system.

Yes, by CFE standards I'm a heavy user, 1100KWH in 2 months, in TX I used anywhere from 1,500 to 2,500 per month on the heavy months and I was not a "heavy" user. They were able to be nicely profitable at $.10/KWH or in MXN terms today about $1.33p, that's a vast difference.



morgaine7


Sep 27, 2011, 8:26 AM

Views: 2393

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply

Quote
If we calculate the average of the actual rates that most Mexicans pay, you get an average subsidized rate of 1.34 cents per kWhr, which is still 2.3X lower than the cheapest rate reported for 37 countries.

I think Stevebrtx is saying that CFE's stated production cost is 40 cents (subsidized rate paid plus subsidy, which for me works out to about the same as the DAC rate). His point seems to be that they should be able to produce electric power less expensively.

As for "results", my July/August bill was 388 pesos for 517 kWh. The bill included a notice that I qualify for government support if I wish to upgrade my fridge. So I'm fine with that and don't feel the need to challenge CFE's production costs or rate structures. My "tarifa" is 1D, so I could more than triple my usage and still stay well below the DAC cutoff of 1,000 kWh /mo average. That's for a single person in a small house with no AC, but with five large ceiling fans, a floor fan, a swimming pool and most of the usual appliances and gadgets except TV and home theatre.

I do sympathize with folks in similar climates who are billed at 1B. Baja California Sur, while quite hot, is influenced by the desert and stays relatively dry during most of the year compared to other coastal areas. That's one of the main reasons I chose to move here, because I don't handle humidity well but also don't like living in AC.

Kate



johanson


Sep 27, 2011, 9:17 AM

Views: 2370

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
Me July, lakeside, at Tariff 1 $6.3 US cents per KWH Me July, lakeside, at DAC Monthly connection fee $6.51 plus almost 31 US cents per KWH Shown below are the boring facts. My actual July rates lakeside, for either DAC or tariff 1. dependent upon my usage which was an abnormally low 94 KWH (yes I have PV solar panels) Exchange rate of 13.3 to 1 Here are the July. rates where the amounts apply to the per month usage from http://www.cfe.gob.mx/.../Conocetutarifa.aspx o
2.1 Cargos por energía consumida, para consumos hasta 140 (ciento cuarenta) kilowatts-hora. Consumo básico $ 0.723 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora. Consumo intermedio $ 0.873 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores.
2.2 Cargos por energía consumida, para consumos mayores a 140 (ciento cuarenta) kilowatts-hora. Consumo básico $ 0.723 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora. Consumo intermedio $ 1.209 por cada uno de los siguientes 50 (cincuenta) kilowatts-hora. Consumo excedente $ 2.553 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores. Because I used less than 75 KWH per month my KWH rate was 0.723 + 16% IVA divided by 13.3(exchange rate) = or 6.34 cents per KWH. Now because I also receive a government subsidy my per KWH rate is about 6.3 cents per KWH. Which included a government subsidy of more than 80% However were I in the DAC because my average consumption was greater than 3000 KWH during the previous 12 months. Then I would be charged a monthly connection fee of $6.51 US plus almost 31 cents per KWH



stevebrtx

Sep 27, 2011, 9:22 AM

Views: 2365

Re: [morgaine7] electric

| Private Reply
The cost of production is $3.475p/KWH, add 16% IVA and you get $4.031p/KWH. Now, I'll give you that I'm calculating at 10:1 so we're currently getting a bit of a break, but if it drops below 10:1, and it has, there will be no sympathy.

As to your usage, you're getting a deal, if I had a meter like yours I'd keep it under lock and key with an alarm attached, I don't believe it's correct, but that's your gift. And I don't know what 1D is? I'm in DAC and 01 for the casita. That's doesn't seem correct, you can't triple the usage to 1500 for a 2 month billing and stay below DAC, I'm "only" at 1100 per billing and in DAC.

Now, I'll be the first to recognize all this angst is wasted and an exercise in futility, nothing is going to change, between the Gov and CFE, one hand is obviously washing the other and we're not invited. I might even concede to somewhat higher prices if the product was worthy - but it's not. In this house I've gone through 4 regulators, stereo repair, fried answering machine, 1 modem, 3 routers, 1 telephone blocker, 1 clock radio, 1 Vonage adapter and that's in 4 years. Add losing the freezer recently, untold hours of rebuilding data bases on the weather station and as previously mentioned, the fiasco with the casita incoming power and forgive me if somehow I don't feel the warm and fuzzies when it comes to the CFE.

I found when I managed people that you usually get what you expect, when you accept inefficiency and mediocrity that's generally what you'll get. In my sales career I found people will pay for excellence a lot sooner than they'll pay for junk, but then silly me, we're talking about Mexico and the CFE aren't we?



Bennie García

Sep 27, 2011, 11:06 AM

Views: 2336

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply

In Reply To
The cost of production is $3.475p/KWH, add 16% IVA and you get $4.031p/KWH. Now, I'll give you that I'm calculating at 10:1 so we're currently getting a bit of a break, but if it drops below 10:1, and it has, there will be no sympathy.


When the peso was at 10 to 1 was the price per kwh the same as it is today? Didn't think so. Now try being a little less disingenuous and knock the 16% IVA off the cost of production and try for a true exchange rate.

Now let's look at it in a more honest manner. Using your figure of 3.475 kwh and dividing that by today's exchange rate, the cost is 0.257usd kwh. Compare that to your calculation of 0.40usd kwh. Now we're looking at a substantial difference. Like nearly 40%.

Weren't you offering math classes in a previous post?


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 27, 2011, 11:38 AM)



morgaine7


Sep 27, 2011, 11:07 AM

Views: 2335

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
My usage and bills are in line with those of my friends and neighbors, give or take size of home, number of people in the household, and use of AC.

1D is the normal CFE "tarifa" for my location, just as 01 apparently is for yours, based on your casita. The two-month bill I cited was for 350 kWh at "Básico" (0.643 pesos /kWh) and 167 at "Intermedio (0.744 pesos /kWh). There is also a higher "Excedente" category above Intermedio, but my usage didn't reach that level. Básico and Intermedio are subsidized rates (not sure about Excedente). My 388 peso bill shows cost of production as 2,087.09 pesos, 1,737 being subsidized by the government. So yes, it's a deal, but only because my usage is low.

These subsidized rate categories probably don't show on your bill, because the subsidies disappear entirely if you're on the DAC "tarifa".

As others have noted, one's normal "tarifa", along with its rates and quotas, is set according to average summer temperature for the region. On 1D, I can average up to 1,000 kWh /month before getting billed at the non-subsidized DAC "tarifa". For July/August, my average was 258.5 kWh, so yes, I could triple it and still avoid the DAC. Folks on 1B, like Tonynico in Quintana Roo and Sioux4noff in Nayarit, get bumped into the DAC with an average of 400 kWh /month. Folks on 1F don't get into the DAC unless their average usage reaches 2,500 kWh /month, as Sioux4noff mentioned.

So folks in hotter summer climates can use more power at subsidized rates. What's being questioned in this thread is that some regions seem hotter than their assigned "tarifa" indicates, one reason being that the classifications don't account for high humidity.

Kate



YucaLandia


Sep 27, 2011, 11:48 AM

Views: 2316

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
Steve,
I think I just got the point you were making: CFE's advertised "production cost" seems very high, while I was focusing on the actual price that I and others pay for residential electricity service.

Actual money spent vs. reported budget: This comparison seems very similar to the shell games and bait & switch games that US politicians play with budget cuts. The US Congress, Boehner, Reed, Pelosi, and the President trumpeted over $4 billion in budget cuts (on paper) last year, but the actual reductions in real spending were just $380 million: a 10X misrepresentation.

CFE clearly advertises a "production cost" that is much higher than what residential users pay.
Do the DAC and commercial customers make up the difference? Are Pemex oil revenues used to make up the difference?

I don't know, but I do appreciate paying the lowest residential prices for electricity out of the 38 countries cited above.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com



stevebrtx

Sep 27, 2011, 12:04 PM

Views: 2307

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply
You know darn well it's a back room deal, the Gov and CFE get together over tequila and Gov says "what's your production cost" wink wink, nod nod and CFE says $3.45p per KWH, so the Gov says ok, we'll give you a "subsidy" so it looks good for the poor folks and you can gouge the rest, so send us the bill, they shake hands, money and tequila flow both ways and like any government/monopoly sticky fingers in the middle pull out "their share".

You're lucky as is the lady, my pumps use 3KWH a day, more when my gardener is watering, so that's 180 per cycle, then my PC desk uses about another 2 per day, that's 120 per cycle, so far all I've done is run the weather station and taken a shower, no lights, no fans, no frig, no radios, no TV, no security lighting, no microwave nada and I'm already at 300KWH per cycle. And yes, I only have another 276 days, 5 hours before I'm out of this house and if there is any way I can rent a decent place without a pool that will be a start.

Pete has the advantage, he owns his house and has the money to install a CFE "bypass" - I have neither, so this is the end of the discussion for me, I need to go out and find something I can actually change or fix, it's good for my soul.



DavidHF

Sep 27, 2011, 12:26 PM

Views: 2297

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
For those that don't live in the Chapala area; our DAC rate commences at 500Kwhrs/2 month or 3000Kwhr/yr. and we have no summer rate/winter rate. Once you're in DAC you pay ~31 US cents/Kwhr. plus a monthly "connection fee" of about 75 pesos per meter.



YucaLandia


Sep 27, 2011, 1:25 PM

Views: 2275

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply

In Reply To
Last time I researched it a couple of months ago, if you're in the DAC rate, you're in elite company, I believe only 3 other countries in the entire world have higher rates, so guess CFE isn't satisfied with being in 4th place.



In Reply To
...the Gov says ok, we'll give you a "subsidy" so it looks good for the poor folks and you can gouge the rest, so send us the bill, they shake hands, money and tequila flow both ways and like any government/monopoly sticky fingers in the middle pull out "their share".



In Reply To
The casita shows cost of production at $3.475p/KWH.


I'm still trying to get my mind around all of this.
If we convert Steve's quoted $3.475pesos per kWhr to US dollars, it comes out to 25.9 cents per kWhr. When compared to the 37 other countries cited above, Mexico's production price comes in below:
Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, and Tonga.

Are we expected to believe that Mexico has higher electricity prices than all but 3 countries in the world, while Mexico's actual residential rates are the lowest out of 38 countries cited, and Mexico's production costs and high consumption DAC rates are below 5 of the most advanced countries in the industrialized world?

Are we also expected to believe that Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Italy and the Netherlands utilities are all also controlled by corrupt people who make back-room deals over shots of alcohol, to gouge their citizens, as Mexico is accused?

CFE certainly has customer service issues, and I too have had to replace electronics when my US-made UPSs failed with CFE power problems, but I am having trouble finding evidence to support the claims of corruption and over-pricing. Mexico does not have cheap natural gas or cheap coal to produce electricity like many countries. Mexico also does not have refining capacity to convert her crude oil into the lighter products that are used in oil-fired power plants. Mexico must send her crude to the US for refining, and then transport the refined products back to run her power plants, making Mexico an importer of refined petroleum products, like Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Italy, and the Netherlands.

Does anyone here know CFE's commercial electricity rates compared to other countries' commercial rates? This could explain how Mexican residential rates are some of the lowest in the world.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 27, 2011, 1:33 PM)



stevebrtx

Sep 27, 2011, 1:50 PM

Views: 2255

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply
Steve, you can twist and turn it anyway you want, but when I shell our $4,310 pesos for 1100KWH it's darn high. And to tout your subsidized rate as "the rate in MX" is a bit disingenuous. All that means is the MXN Gov is using money to "overpay" (my belief) the CFE to give an artificially low price to some, while as noted, other areas are favored due to climate considerations which is also totally subjective and obviously is not "production cost" based.

We all know what happens when governments get into the business of manipulating rates etc. It also means that money is not being used for other infrastructure items etc.



Bennie García

Sep 27, 2011, 2:23 PM

Views: 2244

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply

In Reply To
Mexico also does not have refining capacity to convert her crude oil into the lighter products that are used in oil-fired power plants. Mexico must send her crude to the US for refining, and then transport the refined products back to run her power plants, making Mexico an importer of refined petroleum products, like Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Italy, and the Netherlands


For the sake of accuracy, the oil used to fire steam generators in large power plants is from, forgive me the pun, the bottom of the barrel. The lowest grade oil. What is leftover after the good clean stuff has been refined out of the crude. A residual product. Think tar. The important factor is the amount of BTUs. But they also burn much dirtier.



morgaine7


Sep 27, 2011, 2:43 PM

Views: 5915

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
CFE is the government. "Comisión Federal de Electricidad". I believe it's under the Secretary of Energy.

Kate



YucaLandia


Sep 27, 2011, 4:30 PM

Views: 5896

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply

In Reply To
Steve, you can twist and turn it anyway you want, but when I shell our $4,310 pesos for 1100KWH it's darn high. And to tout your subsidized rate as "the rate in MX" is a bit disingenuous.

All that means is the MXN Gov is using money to "overpay" (my belief) the CFE to give an artificially low price to some, while as noted,

other areas are favored due to climate considerations which is also totally subjective and obviously is not "production cost" based.

We all know what happens when governments get into the business of manipulating rates etc. It also means that money is not being used for other infrastructure items etc.


How can the Mexican Government give money to itself, as claimed?

How can "climate considerations" be "totally subjective", when the rates and Tarifas are based on a publicly described formulae, using official monthly average temperatures recorded by official weather stations?

The point of commercial clients and high energy usage DAC clients paying higher rates that subsidize residential electricity users is a new and different topic. Mexico chooses to subsidize basic food prices, modest electricity use, and clean municipal drinking water. These are choices that Mexican voters and Mexican citizens have made over the past decades, and seem not to be a proper subject for criticism by foreigners.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com



mazbook1


Sep 27, 2011, 6:26 PM

Views: 5870

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply
YucaLandia, "Mexico chooses to subsidize basic food prices, modest electricity use, and clean municipal drinking water. These are choices that Mexican voters and Mexican citizens have made over the past decades, and seem not to be a proper subject for criticism by foreigners. "

¡AMEN!, 'mano.

And besides that, I haven't seen any mention of the "green" pricing structure that NEARLY every utility (government or private) practices in México. Use more water, the rate goes UP rather than down. Use more telephone service, the rate goes UP rather than down. So just why SHOULDN'T the electric rate go UP rather than down the more you use? It only makes good sense.

Sounds like a "green's" dream to me.



playaboy

Sep 28, 2011, 6:26 AM

Views: 5816

Re: [tonynico] electric

| Private Reply
I have been reading this thread and chuckling.

One of the reasons the rates are high is because of all the theft of electricity. I know people that run their A/C off the meter. Some even run half their house that way. In rural areas I have seen electric cords running on the ground from the pole to the home a couple of blocks away.

The other reason is that in the last 10 years a lot of Mexico is just getting electricity. They have to pay for that infrastructure some way.

The reason I am chuckling is because I don't own and just rent with all my utilities included. A/C runs 24/7, electric skillet to fry my chicken, and no CFE bills for me.



stevebrtx

Sep 28, 2011, 4:03 PM

Views: 5757

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

| Private Reply
Good one Steve, "how does a government give money to itself? I'd bet if you asked they'd tell you no one is more deserving than themselves.

Now granted, government is not a business, and rarely if ever "profitable" or even close to efficient when they attempt to conduct business because they are modeled as "anti-business". Primarily, in business you prosper by being more efficient and cutting costs, produce more for less. In government it's exactly the opposite, you only get to increase your budget by spending all you're allocated for a year, no matter how, just spend it and ask for more.

All that said, as I was motoring through the lovely countryside out SE of Guad today trying to think of a successful business model which penalizes you, per unit, for buying more. I'm sure I'm missing something. Like 2X1 on Monday, 1X2 on Tues, which day do you think sells the most. So what multinational, national, local or neighborhood business's can you site that are hugely successful on charging more per unit for buying more?

Now, if you want to penalize or gouge people, then it works, especially if you're the only game in town with a needed commodity. If you want to limit consumption, that's easy if you're honest about it, especially if you are the only game in town, you just don't increase capacity, you tell people that's all there is, ain't no more, learn to live with it. Of course in the real world that automatically generates competition, sadly, not when you're the monopoly. What model do you imagine the CFE is built on?



tonyburton / Moderator


Sep 28, 2011, 4:11 PM

Views: 5755

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
Your argument might have some validity IF and only IF all energy production and usage was 100% sustainable; but it isn't.



stevebrtx

Sep 28, 2011, 4:27 PM

Views: 5749

Re: [tonyburton] electric

| Private Reply
I reject your "if and only if" premise, that's not the case, nor does it have to be, however the current business model and inefficiency does guarantees it by default.

It does point out two major flaws in the CFE, first they are essentially a government entity, so as I stated, almost guaranteed to be inefficient, but more importantly there has been, and continues to be, a staunch, unrelenting, resistance to private investment in much of Mexico in general. Just as Pemex is limited in it's ability to explore and develop new fields, the CFE could dramatically change with a different business model allowing privatization (see competition). As some remember, the CFE used to be in the gas business, but that was finally broken apart.



Bennie García

Sep 28, 2011, 5:02 PM

Views: 5742

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
So Steve, while cruising the countryside today, did you give any thought to why you are paying nearly one dollar less per gallon of gasoline here through the national oil company, than you would be paying in the US, where it sold to the public by a free market icon, big oil? And it wasn't even self-serve!



RickS


Sep 28, 2011, 5:54 PM

Views: 5729

Re: [tonyburton] electric

| Private Reply
My experience has been that, when you find opposing factions entrenched in their beliefs, no amount of logic and reason is going to get either faction to listen to what is being said, much less back down. This is true in business and politics (shall I mention the Democrats vs Republicans!?!).

Also, if I ever saw a thread that has run its course and needs to be locked, this one would be at the top of my list. The OP is long gone from this discussion and probably from MexConnect....

Praise the lord and pass the kwh's !!!



TxMex

Sep 28, 2011, 7:24 PM

Views: 5712

Re: [RickS] electric

| Private Reply
Electricity rates vary greatly from place to place. When I lived in Coatepec I had fairly normal electric bills....still a lot cheaper than NOB. Then I moved up the mountains to a tiny little village and my electricity for a bigger house was $4 US for 2 months :)

Just to make y'all feel better about your expenses in Mexico.....at the store today I bought a loaf of bread, a gallon of 2% milk and 3 dozen eggs. I handed the clerk a $20 and received only coins back. Inflation is eating our lunch up here!



playaboy

Sep 29, 2011, 6:18 AM

Views: 5667

Re: [tonynico] electric

| Private Reply
This is an article from our local newspaper talking about the nationwide petition drive. This will affect all of you that pay CFE.

http://www.poresto.net/...&idTitulo=118357


(This post was edited by Rolly on Sep 29, 2011, 6:48 AM)



stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 7:14 AM

Views: 5652

Re: [Bennie García] electric

| Private Reply
Bennie asks a good question and while I usually ignore him, this one deserves an answer.

I really don't drive a lot, so the cost of gas doesn't have much meaning to me anymore. However, yesterday I was coming back from Ocotlan and the stretch of road to the Chapala Hwy is a miserable excuse for a road, what isn't under construction should be. One stretch of several miles with stupid little topes, so we're all weaving off onto the shoulders or into the oncoming lane to avoid them. And while it didn't specifically come to mind at that moment, maybe, just maybe, if they did charge a bit more they could improve roads like that one. Maybe, just maybe Pemex could invest some money in new deep water exploration and develop new fields to supplement the declining ones.

I have often lamented the fact that the house I rent only pays $195 a year in tax while my roughly equivalent home in TX was $6,000. Maybe if they charged a bit more, my street would actually be passable, not a rock strewn field of mud/dust I navigate to/from mi casa. Maybe they would provide a street light rather than me buying one and installing it myself for safety. And just maybe they could invest a bit in schools to move the next generation into the 21st century, but I realize that's only a dream, because as this thread indicates, giving more money to any government far from guarantees improvements - and I might add, especially in Mexico.



Bennie García

Sep 29, 2011, 7:43 AM

Views: 5639

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
A predictable response from Steve. As he says, he usually doesn't respond to me in this manner. Most of the time he responds via PM and with language prohibited on the message board.

So in his opinion, Mexico is damned if they do and damned if they don't. He complains about electricity tariffs but because he doesn't drive much, he is all in favor of raising gasoline prices. He rents a home and doesn't pay property taxes but suggests a hike there also.

Looks like he thinks things should be run according to his personal needs.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 29, 2011, 7:52 AM)



stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 11:28 AM

Views: 5597

Re: [Bennie García] electric

| Private Reply
Bennie,

My my my, you are a bit slow, it's taken you 5 years to figure that out. The CFE is corrupt and needs to change for ALL people living in MX for the good of the future of MX. The roads can use a huge amount of work, a little more there isn't a problem and surely you can't possibly justify the real estate tax rates, lack of infrastructure and education? There needs to be moderation in all things to achieve balance and to move the country ahead - that is unless you're advocating keeping Mexico in the 19th century.



Bennie García

Sep 29, 2011, 11:51 AM

Views: 5594

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

| Private Reply
Steve, in the first place, you have been here for a very, very short time and therefore have absolutely no frame of reference to compare anything to. The progress in infrastructure and government services is far ahead of what it was a mere 20 years ago. You haven't got a clue.

Face it, if things don't conform to your way of thinking you just fall to pieces. That happens to control freaks like yourself, especially when coupled with an ultra conservative view point.

You really need to come to grips with that. Or failing that, move back to Texas where you can use cheaper electricity to heat your cheaper Campbell's Pork and Beans. But undoubtedly you'd just find something else to complain about.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 29, 2011, 11:58 AM)



Rolly


Sep 29, 2011, 12:02 PM

Views: 5587

Re: [Bennie García] electric

| Private Reply
Guys, please cut the sniping. Lets get back to the subject -- los bandidos de CFE.

Rolly Pirate



morgaine7


Sep 29, 2011, 12:23 PM

Views: 5575

Re: [Rolly] electric

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As if on cue from this thread, yesterday mid-afternoon my neighborhood had a major brownout that was probably wind-related (a huge gust blew the curtains horizontal at the same instant the fans stopped). I checked with neighbors before calling CFE, so by the time I reached them, they were already on it. About an hour or two later we had a total blackout, soon followed by everything coming back to normal. So the whole event was maybe three hours at most. This is typical of CFE service here and is gratefully appreciated. Our temp was close to 100F at the time of the problem, so everybody had to go outdoors because it was too hot indoors without fans. My dog and I were in the pool. Smile

Kate



stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 6:50 PM

Views: 5521

Re: [Rolly] electric

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Granted, I'm essentially a tourista, I've only lived here a scant 4 years, even though my first trip to MX was in 1978. But, it's been my observation that other than the Magic Kingdom of Disney it's rare for any government, governmental agency, commission, municipality, you name it, to automatically and magically, on their own, become more efficient, improve their product and/or cut costs, it's not their business model. I have seen them raise costs, become corrupted by self interest and self preservation at taxpayers expense, but rarely the opposite.


Change is driven by customers dissatisfaction. Now, I don't know exactly how long you have to be here to realize the CFE is the poster child for needed improvement, but on average I pay $3,500 to $4,000 pesos every 2 month, somewhere a bit short of $100,000 pesos since arriving - I'd say that should go a ways to allowing me to form an opinion of the CFE. Now, that may be chump change to some of us, but even if it is, I can think of a lot of other good local causes who could use that money.



Marlene


Sep 30, 2011, 9:35 AM

Views: 5455

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote
Change is driven by customers dissatisfaction.


Thanks for the chuckle. Have you heard the local expression "ni modo"?

If you don't feel you are consuming the amounts you are being billed for, you probably should have your meter checked by the CFE, followed by having the home's wiring checked over to make sure there are no mystery energy drains. Maybe you have done that already.



stevebrtx

Sep 30, 2011, 3:42 PM

Views: 5408

Re: [Marlene] electric

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Please don't take this as disrespect or personal, but you're giving advise to a guy with an EE who worked on the NASA program that put man on the moon, in that respect, I suppose you could actually say I was in "rocket science".

I know exactly what I use, why and when I use it. that is not, nor has been, the subject of this thread or other discussions regarding the CFE. The question is, and has been, their claim of production costs, service and quality of product. Again, just a statement of facts.

And, just in case you missed my earlier comment, I use roughly 1/4th the power is used NOB - but pay as much or more. If the CFE is actually that inefficient then the full government is missing a great chance to make some good revenue by bringing in someone who can produce it more in line with world standards.



YucaLandia


Oct 1, 2011, 6:23 AM

Views: 5353

Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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I would guess that Marlene is just being helpful to someone who does not seem to understand how some things work in Mexico.

You did say you have a EE degree, but you also said that you lost $1,000's of your electronics etc, due to power problems. You also said that if you had known, you would choose a different place without a pool. e.g. Old timers who know Mexico know that important electronics and electrical appliances must be protected from common everyday CFE issues: low voltage (drooping to 90-95 VAC), high voltage (134 - 140 VAC) , spikes, voltage drops, lightening strikes, etc. In 30 years, we have had 3 transformers on our block go out, etc. etc. etc., but due to the use of the right device to protect each type of appliance, we have had zero dollar losses.

For people who do not have EE degrees, it takes a different device to protect a large microwave oven, than to protect a computer, than to protect an electrical controlled refrigerator vs. an electronic controlled refrigerator, than to protect a small microwave oven, than to protect a printer, than to protect a clothes dryer, than to protect a TV. The dozen or so EE's I've known, do not know the practical aspects of what specific protection is needed for each different type of electronics and electrical appliances. We use 5 different types of protectors around our house - each matched to the specific need.

There is a big difference between real-world issues in Mexico and the theoretical things a EE Rocket Scientist knows, otherwise you would have known about DAC rates in advance, known about the different billing tiers based on heavy usage. You would have known the costs of running a pool pump in your area, and that a pool pump plus modest household electricity usage would cause you to lose the 75% - 79% government subsidies (discounts). If you knew the practical aspects of electrical use in Mexico, you would have known that you would be paying $10,000 in power bills that you complain of, and maybe made different choices.** If you knew the practical realities of power quality here, you could have protected your important and valuable electrical and electronics around your home.

People are describing how things actually work here, so, you will have the power and knowledge to make different choices, and make things better, for both you and for lurkers who read these threads.

Forewarned is forearmed.
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**Due to my wife's clear explanations, all of our CFE bills have been below $350 pesos a month for the past 5 years, while using the modern conveniences of satellite TV, air conditioning, microwave ovens, computers, printers, scanners, etc., and we have not had any $$ losses due to electrical damage by using about $270 of various types of protectors. We have basic 240VAC service on a single meter, and no solar, wind, or other alternative energy help.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 1, 2011, 6:54 AM)



stevebrtx

Oct 1, 2011, 8:48 AM

Views: 5309

Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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Ok, I give up, I know nothing about electricity or Mexico.


(This post was edited by stevebrtx on Oct 1, 2011, 9:15 AM)