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First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey




jerezano

Feb 16, 2011, 6:30 AM

Views: 15843

    

First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Hello all,

Here is the first reported narco reten and killing of a US agent on Highway 57 north of San Luis Potosí on the way to Saltillo and Monterrey.

http://news.yahoo.com/...xico_ice_agents_shot

There is a conformation squib of this incident in the LA Times but no details.

So far no incidents have been reported on the Zacatecas to Saltillo highway.

As ever, jerezano


(This post was edited by jerezano on Feb 16, 2011, 6:34 AM)



lwmosher

Feb 16, 2011, 6:55 AM

Views: 15824

    

Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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One online report states that San Luis Potosi police said gunmen attacked two people in a blue Suburban on Highway 57 between Mexico City and Monterrey, near the town of Santa Maria Del Rio, at about 2:30 p.m.

CNN has reported that the incident took place near Mexico City. Hispanically Speaking News provides names of the officers and implicates the Zetas. The news reporting has been less than consistent.

A sad situation.



Reefhound


Feb 16, 2011, 7:10 AM

Views: 15811

    

Re: [lwmosher] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I've seen lots of news reports on this and while the initial ones were sketchy most have been pretty consistent. It was SLP state police and military that responded. CNN is the only one placing it near D.F.

Most reports says the agents were identifying themselves then were fired on. I'm curious as to how one even survived. I wonder if the agents had weapons and returned fire...



Brian

Feb 16, 2011, 8:29 AM

Views: 15789

    

Re: [lwmosher] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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In Reply To
One online report states that San Luis Potosi police said gunmen attacked two people in a blue Suburban on Highway 57 between Mexico City and Monterrey, near the town of Santa Maria Del Rio, at about 2:30


To give a sense of location for those who travel on 57, SMdR is the town that advertises itself as the rebozo making capital. It is a frequent stop for motorists who buy gas and other provisions for the trip north and southbound. It is scary that these professionals, like Nancy Davis' husband, made the wrong decision when approaching what looked like a legitimate checkpoint. Davis tried to drive through. The US agents stopped and identified themselves. Same result....


(This post was edited by Brian on Feb 16, 2011, 8:31 AM)



Reefhound


Feb 16, 2011, 9:01 AM

Views: 15778

    

Re: [Brian] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I'm done with advising one whether to stop, flee, fight, cooperate, or whatever. There is no reliable procedure. One needs to consider all the possibilities with respect to their circumstances and decide for themselves.

Did the missionary make the wrong decision? It obviously didn't turn out right for her but did his decision to flee cost a life or save a life? Although they probably just wanted his truck.

The agents were in different circumstances. Doubtful they just wanted the truck since it had diplomatic plates and no indication they tried to take it. Lots of questions as to who they initially thought the attackers were (the "good guys" or the "bad guys") and what they were trying to communicate. One survived so officials will soon know exactly what happened (though we may not).



chinagringo


Feb 16, 2011, 10:17 AM

Views: 15745

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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In reading through numerous media reports, both Mexican and foreign, there seem to be numerous unanswered questions on this incident and even those stated as facts may be up for dispute.
1) I have not read any reports that the Suburban actually did have diplomatic plates. I looked at a number of photos that included the rear plate and after zooming in, it appeared that the plate had been distorted with some sort of paper affixed over the actual plate.
2) Do we know whether these agents were armed?
3) I personally wonder if they were carrying actual ID's or some form of identification designed to disguise their mission?
4) As of just a few minutes ago, CNN continues to broadcast inaccurate info on the actual location of this incident.

I think we can safely assume that these agents had undergone some form of training and maybe extra special training to be assigned to Mexico. It should be a "wake-up call" to all of us who travel the highways without a clue and absolutely no training on how to handle such a situation! Anyone who imagines or otherwise think that these guys follow any formal set of rules is simply fooling themselves.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Reefhound


Feb 16, 2011, 11:34 AM

Views: 15724

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I think authorities know a lot more than we'll ever know. The latest account on BB describes the attack in such detail that either it is coming from the surviving agent or someone has a vivid imagination. It claims they were on a "black op" carrying a box possibly containing weapons, that they were targeted and perhaps even set up by an insider, that most of the reports are the "cover story".



norteño

Feb 16, 2011, 11:55 AM

Views: 15710

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Many reports in the Mexican media say that the vehicle had diplomatic plates. ICE agents attached to the U. S. Embassy are openly identified as such and would not be armed or working undercover.



stevebrtx

Feb 16, 2011, 3:48 PM

Views: 15668

    

Re: [norteño] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Yes, openly driving a car with diplomatic plates. Now, the big question no one is asking is "does this finally cross the line?" Are they willing to risk some level of direct US intervention, time will tell.
http://www.chapalaweather.net



wendy devlin

Feb 16, 2011, 4:11 PM

Views: 15654

    

Re: [stevebrtx] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Got to ask...first, why where they driving?
Second, Without reliable military escort on Hwy 57...given recent reports from that area?

Stay tuned. Although the more 'important' this incident, likely the less, creditable domestic or international follow-up news stories available... leaving more questions than answers.



NJ2VER


Feb 17, 2011, 6:20 AM

Views: 15550

    

Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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The common denominater for these poor agents, and for the missionaries, was that they were driving very flashy vehicles. At this sad time the character Frank Lopez(Scarface) words ring true:"Hey, Tony. Remember when I told you when you first started working for me, the guys that last in this business, are the guys who fly straight. Low-key, quiet. But the guys who want it all, chicas, champagne, flash... they don't last.



rvcycleguy

Feb 17, 2011, 8:15 AM

Views: 15502

    

Re: [NJ2VER] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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local paper in Houston are reporting that the ICE armored vehicle was forced of the road by two other SUV's. The ICE driver agent placed the vehicle in park, which activated the door locks in the open position. The drivers door was opened and the driver was able to repel the assault and close the door and lock it. The driver or passenger then opened the window a couple of inches to declare they were diplomatic agents and offer credentials, The attackers placed an AK47 in the partially open window and sprayed the interior with bullets. The driver and passenger were hit. The driver was able to force one attacker vehicle in the front out of the way and drive off. After a few minutes, he died and the vehicle stopped. The surviving agent was able to make a mobile phone call for help. A Mexican federal police helicopter arrived shortly thereafter.



chinagringo


Feb 17, 2011, 8:48 AM

Views: 15492

    

Re: [NJ2VER] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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To categorize a pickup and a Suburban as "very flashy vehicles" seems to be a bit of a stretch to me. For security reasons, the Suburban had been armored. In order for a vehicle to have such modifications, they must start with a substantial vehicle that has the power and suspension capable of handling the extra weight. Smaller less desirable vehicles simply cannot qualify. While we typically drive a older well used Ford Windstar on our Mexico trips, I would venture a guess that on any given day, the cartels may desire such a vehicle if they needed to move a group. There is no question that the missionaries pickup and the Suburban both fit the list of typically desired vehicles but flashy?

I cannot for the life of me understand why the ICE agents would compromise the protection afforded to them by rolling down a window.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Reefhound


Feb 17, 2011, 8:49 AM

Views: 15492

    

Re: [rvcycleguy] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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If true, that is a serious vulnerability that the doors automatically unlock when vehicle is placed in park. I know some vehicles have that as a safety feature when a collision is detected but for security purposes there needs to be an override on this kind of vehicle. There seem to be a lot of things missing for such a supposedly high security vehicle.

Of course, the reality is that we don't know all the details and likely never will.



Anonimo

Feb 17, 2011, 9:26 AM

Views: 15472

    

Re: [norteño] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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What does "ICE" mean, in this context?



Saludos,
Anonimo



bournemouth

Feb 17, 2011, 9:45 AM

Views: 15463

    

Re: [Anonimo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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US Customs & Immigration: http://www.ice.gov/



Altahabana


Feb 17, 2011, 10:47 AM

Views: 15445

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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In Reply To
I'm done with advising one whether to stop, flee, fight, cooperate, or whatever. There is no reliable procedure. One needs to consider all the possibilities with respect to their circumstances and decide for themselves.

I strongly disagree. For the typical reader of this forum the advice should be stop and not try to flee, escape or resist. It is a frightening experience to run up on a narco retén, but trying to escape is much more likely to produce a catastrophic result.



rvcycleguy

Feb 18, 2011, 6:44 AM

Views: 15288

    

Re: [Anonimo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Immigrations, Customs & Enforcement



dongringo_catemaco


Feb 18, 2011, 7:00 PM

Views: 15178

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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According to the WSJ, that armored vehicle was designed to lower its windows and open its doors in case of a crash. That was probably a vehicle designed by someone from Florida to respond to landing in a ditch. A Mexican designer would probably have included a James Bond ejection seat.
Visit Catemaco News




Reefhound


Feb 18, 2011, 7:10 PM

Views: 15175

    

Re: [dongringo_catemaco] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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That's a system found in several models now but it's incredibly stupid to have in a high security vehicle without an override or delay. So all attackers need to do is bump into the car. I'll bet they are making modifications as we speak.

As more details emerge it sounds like if the doors had remain locked and the windows up, we would be talking about a "close call" two agents had in a failed attack. (Or perhaps we'd never have heard of it). The vehicle took a lot of rounds to the exterior (87 casings found last report) and the attackers were unable to breach the cabin apart from the handful of shots fired in through the small opening in the window. I'm sure they have run-flat tires as well. They were able to flee the initial attack and stopped the second time only because the driver lost consciousness.



turnabout

Feb 19, 2011, 5:18 AM

Views: 15113

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Interesting ( or not ) that the discussion has been steered to the car and not to the situation. What were they doing there at that time of day? Why did they stop and park? Why were they not escorted, as required ? Why only lip service from the media where as killings of less importent(?) people get driven by the press for weeks? Why and how could the Mexican helicopter respond so quickly? These guys were targeted since the stop at a convience store ( or well before ) but no calls were made from the agents. Was this a covert meeting gone bad ?



Altahabana


Feb 19, 2011, 7:09 AM

Views: 15090

    

Re: [turnabout] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Was this a covert meeting gone bad ?


Or just an unfortunate encounter with a group of coked up, 20 something, uneducated street thugs (i.e. present day rank/file Zetas) who got in way over their heads and f'd up big time.

If you're serious who would the ICE guys have been meeting with----Zetas, a rival cartel, Mexican military intel, a federal (Mexican) black op agency? You talk about the discussion being steered in a particular direction and then toss out this red herring.



Reefhound


Feb 19, 2011, 8:16 AM

Views: 15063

    

Re: [turnabout] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I think the car comes into it because it's a key part of their unusual circumstances. None of us would be in that kind of vehicle that can physically withstand an armed assault. Along with their extensive connections and support network (I'm pretty sure I couldn't phone in a call for help and have a helicopter on it's way) means this incident holds few lessons for the average traveler.

Most of those questions you ask are unanswerable, or at least I doubt they will be answered to the public. I wouldn't call the media coverage "lip service" though as I've seen more followup stories to this than any other incident I've heard about. This incident has also been described in immensely greater detail than most other incidents, it's just that nothing short of live video of the entire thing would satisfy our curiosity. People don't ask all those questions about other incidents. They haven't covered this story for weeks... because it hasn't been weeks since it happened.



chinagringo


Feb 19, 2011, 1:45 PM

Views: 15012

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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From BLOG NARCO: "The attack against two officials of the Bureau of Customs and U.S. Immigration Control, which killed one in San Luis Potosi, was perpetrated by Jesus Rejon Enrique Aguilar (a) The Mammy.

This portion was part of an announcement made by the Gulf Cartel and given in detail:

http://www.blogdelnarco.com/...les-unidos.html#more
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




jerezano

Feb 20, 2011, 7:02 AM

Views: 14909

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Hello All,

Thanks to Neil in Albuquerque for the link


http://www.blogdelnarco.com/...les-unidos.html#more

which is a posting of united narco cárteles. I just read the entire post which is a disclaimer for various atrocities committed by Las Zetas and falsely (so say the united Cárteles) attributed to the Cárteles.

A very interesting document--in Spanish--but well written.

This link could possibly be a valuable source of information about the narco war here in México.

Hasta luego. jerezano



chinagringo


Feb 20, 2011, 7:20 AM

Views: 10779

    

Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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While I don't personally care for all of the gory reality photos on this site, it seems that they do have lots of sources. I have always used GOOGLE translate to assist me with the Spanish but they recently added a translate option in many languages located in the upper left corner to assist those of us who are Spanish challenged.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




surebought

Feb 21, 2011, 9:32 AM

Views: 10663

    

Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Some of us with long experience with doing business in Mexico, have had to learn one lesson (sometimes) many times. You don't hire Mexican Americans to work for you within Mexico. Maybe the government should take this under advisement. There are some real cultural problems with putting Mexican Americans in positions of authority within the republica. I don't say this out of racism. My wife is Mexican. Why would the public sector be any different. And they are also putting every diplomatic employee of the US Consuls in jeopardy by having them work out of the embassy with diplomatic plates. This isn't the cold war. There are no rules. And they are not going to get guns whatever happens, so why bother. The President only has about 15 months left in his term. They should expect a weakening resolve until the next President takes over.



Altahabana


Feb 21, 2011, 10:49 AM

Views: 10644

    

Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Regardless of the validity of your observation about the use of Mexican Americans in the private business sector, I think it is a real stretch to suggest that Zapata and Avila's ethnicity may in some way explain the incident on Hwy 57 in San Luis Potisi. Nearly all victims of narco reténes are Mexican nationals, not US citizens so cultural differences is not a very compelling argument. A more likely explanation for the outcome is that Zapata felt his diplomatic status was some degree of protection and refused to comply, assuming he and his partner were not targeted for assassination.


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Feb 21, 2011, 10:52 AM)



Reefhound


Feb 21, 2011, 12:04 PM

Views: 10622

    

Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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However, it's beneficial that the employees the U.S. sends to Mexico be able to speak Spanish and that makes Mexican Americans the most likely choice, given that learning a second language has not been a high priority within the American educational system.



Reefhound


Feb 21, 2011, 12:14 PM

Views: 10620

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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By all accounts I've seen, the outcome was due to them stopping and rolling down the window to talk to them. The vehicle did it's job and withstood lots of rounds. The only rounds to enter the cabin were through the open window. They were able to get the window back up and take off which is why one agent is alive.



panama john

Feb 21, 2011, 4:21 PM

Views: 10580

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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The incident on Hwy 57 didn't have anything to do with the ethnicity of the two agents. It was about stealing the black bullet-proof SUV. Like Altahabana said they (the ICE agents) thought they could slide through by showing their US Gov. ID. Plain and simple, they(narcos) wanted the car.



chinagringo


Feb 23, 2011, 3:48 PM

Views: 10453

    

Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Apparently there has been an arrest of one person suspected of being involved but no name has been released as yet since they are transporting the prisoner to Mexico City. One of the many Mexican media reports stated that he was a Zeta but that may be pure speculation at this point.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...to-back-in-news.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Reefhound


Feb 23, 2011, 5:02 PM

Views: 10444

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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While I had little doubt that they would "find" who did it, whether he did it or not, the real justice in these kinds of incidents is all the corollary intelligence gathered from the hunt.

I wonder how many Mexican citizens, especially those with personal ties to victims, are wondering why they can't get such results?



Altahabana


Feb 24, 2011, 5:34 AM

Views: 10376

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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They arrrested a group of Zetas. Julián Zapata Espinoza, a/k/a El Piolín (Tweety Bird), the leader, was arrested by the army in December 2009 but released on "bail." There are also reports that the group mistook the agent's vehicle for one driven by a Gulf cartel leader and that is what precipitated the incident.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/747333.html

I too think it is interesting that the government made arrests so quickly. They still haven't caught the individuals responsible for the murder of Rodolfo Torre Cantú, the PRI candidate for governor of Tamaulipas who was assassinated a week before he would have won the election last year.


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Feb 24, 2011, 6:36 AM)



Reefhound


Feb 24, 2011, 5:58 AM

Views: 10372

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I have no basis to either doubt or trust the "reasons" given. Maybe it was as confessed. Maybe they feel they have a better chance if people believe they meant to hurt other bad people not government agents. Maybe they are covering for a higher boss whom they fear more than the government.

The important thing now, the part that I feel least secure with Mexico, is the follow through. The prosecution, the conviction, the sentence, and then secure detention. Arrests become pretty meaningless without the follow through.



chinagringo


Feb 24, 2011, 8:39 AM

Views: 10331

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a developing pattern of the Zetas claiming mistakes when an incident causes international concern? Seems to me that the Falcon Lake incident was also termed a case of mistaken identity.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Casa

Feb 24, 2011, 10:11 AM

Views: 10311

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Sure is good that they were able to "find the guilty" parties before Calderon goes to visit Obama next week. (especially considering the statements made by Calderon in his recent interview)



Altahabana


Feb 24, 2011, 11:46 AM

Views: 10292

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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These days the Zetas are a far cry from the original ex-military special forces core who were recruited by the Gulf cartel to act as their enforcers. Most of the rank/file are garden variety street thugs and their immediate bosses are simply older thugs that have been on the street a little longer. They lack experience,discipline and training and consequently make poor decisions. The massacre of the migrants, the murder of the jet skier on Falcon Lake and this incident are the result. I seriously doubt the two top guys, Lazcano and Trevino, would have sanctioned the killing of an ICE field officer. To me this has all the earmarks of a mistake and very few of a planned event.



chinagringo


Mar 3, 2011, 6:54 AM

Views: 10091

    

Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Seems that everyone is being pretty quiet about the fact that the weapon used to kill the ICE agent and wound the other agent has now been traced to a gun show sale in TX. Also shoots holes in the common rationalization that a weapon was manufactured in some other foreign country and therefore couldn't have come from the US. In this case, the weapon was manufactured in Romania.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nt-in-mexico_01.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




donemry

Mar 3, 2011, 7:23 AM

Views: 10087

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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From the article:

Osorio and a neighbor, Kelvin Leon Morrison, also of Lancaster, had cases against them put off until Friday. They were arrested in Lancaster Monday during a raid.

Morrison is charged with illegally dealing firearms and lying about buying them; he’s believed to have sold them to drug dealers.

Court documents say Osorio and his older brother, Ranferi, possessed dozens of guns with serial numbers filed off that were destined for the violent Zetas drug cartel in Mexico.

These guys bought the guns, illegally modified them and then illegally sold them to someone who then illegally imported them into Mexico. What does the criminal activity of a bunch of criminals suggest to you, what is your point?



Reefhound


Mar 3, 2011, 8:18 AM

Views: 10074

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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If you really want to go down that road, it also shoots holes in the 90% claim. The gun was one of three weapons used in the attack, not to mention weapons and grenades seized in subsequent arrests of the bosses of the SLP group believed responsible. With such a high profile case you can bet dollars to donuts that the investigation has been thorough and all these weapons have been traced. And yet we have ONE traced to the U.S.



panama john

Mar 3, 2011, 9:48 AM

Views: 10054

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Who did the balistics investigation?



chinagringo


Mar 3, 2011, 11:04 AM

Views: 10029

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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"With such a high profile case you can bet dollars to donuts that the investigation has been thorough and all these weapons have been traced. And yet we have ONE traced to the U.S."

Since I have not seen any reports indicating that all the weapons used in this event have been recovered at this point, can you provide us with such? If not, your comment about the "ONE traced to the US" doesn't hold much water! Secondly, have you ever read a post of mine where I professed an absolute belief in the "90%" figure being tossed around? I am ashamed by the shear numbers of weapons that do move from the border states into Mexico - no matter what the percentages are!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Reefhound


Mar 3, 2011, 11:55 AM

Views: 10017

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Well if we are going to parse words, I don't recall anyone ever saying that it was not possible for a weapon manufactured in another country to have come from the USA. So whose rationalization does it shoot holes in?

None of us have all the facts or ever will with regards to what evidence they have recovered or the details to their investigation. What is known is that they have only stated one gun was traced to the U.S. and that it was one of three used in the attack.

I will agree with you that too many guns flow south across the border. I will agree with you that we need to find ways to reduce this. I will not agree to banning legal sales of handguns to qualified citizens. I will not agree to restrictions on handguns that encumber honest citizens and have little or no effect on criminals.

Edit: One has to reply to someone unless starting a new thread. I made a general statement in a reply to you. I never said *you* backed the 90% claim. In your reply to Altahabana, were you making a similar general statement or were you saying he is one of those claiming guns manufactured elsewhere couldn't have come from the U.S.?


(This post was edited by Reefhound on Mar 3, 2011, 12:01 PM)



chinagringo


Mar 3, 2011, 12:36 PM

Views: 9998

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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"One has to reply to someone unless starting a new thread. I made a general statement in a reply to you. I never said *you* backed the 90% claim. In your reply to Altahabana, were you making a similar general statement or were you saying he is one of those claiming guns manufactured elsewhere couldn't have come from the U.S.? "

I was merely tagging on the the end of the thread and did not mean to imply in any way that Althahabana was involved.

Now going back to your post, by omitting how how many of the weapons had been recovered and traced, you contend that it was only ONE. If only ONE had been recovered and traced, then the figure is 100%! If you use the one out of three figure or 33.333%, I still say this number is too high.

Using your word: "handguns" - I don't believe these are the premier weapons of choice for the cartels. If they were, the Mexican military and the police might have fewer problems but assault style weapons do seem to be preferred. As you probably remember the US had a ban on this style weapon for a number of years. With no solid rationale or reasonably thinking, that ban was allowed to expire. I have never seen one argument that passes my acid test that can justify why the US public needs access to this style weapon.

Meanwhile attempts are being made to reduce amounts in the budget allocated to border security. What is wrong with this picture?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM




Reefhound


Mar 3, 2011, 1:29 PM

Views: 9992

    

Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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The assault weapons ban was allowed to expire because it was fatally flawed and ineffective. I don't think it would have made one iota of difference today if it never expired. Here's why.

1. The definition of "assault weapon" was confusing and based on having more than two specific features, such as magazines holding more than 10 rounds, folding stock, threaded barrels, etc. Manufacturers simply made minor modifications and pretty much sold the same weapons as before, such as the XR15 for the AR15, which were easily modified back by the user. If in effect today, the cartels would simply be buying up XR15's and modifying them as needed.

2. It expired before this cartel warfare exploded in Mexico. Assault weapons account for 2% of illegal use of guns in the U.S. I don't recall any of the big shootings - Ft Hood, Virginia Tech, Columbine - involving an AR15 or AK47. In short, within the U.S. it was a solution in search of a problem.



Rolly


Mar 3, 2011, 2:01 PM

Views: 9982

    

Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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This thread has strayed far from the original subject, and it has pretty exhausted the know facts in the matter, so it's time to move on.

Rolly Pirate