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Deported




SanFranDan

Dec 6, 2009, 8:22 AM

Views: 22479

    

Deported

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anyone here ever been officially deported from Mexico, or know of someone who has. Yup, you guessed, I did! And for what??? Absolutely NOTHING!!!



La Isla


Dec 6, 2009, 8:29 AM

Views: 22466

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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It's never happened to me, but I know of cases where someone has been deported for working here illegally.



Anonimo

Dec 6, 2009, 10:22 AM

Views: 22427

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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NOTHING? Can you illuminate us with a few details?



Saludos,
Anonimo



Gringal

Dec 6, 2009, 11:22 AM

Views: 22406

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Yes. I knew a woman who moved to Chiapas and became an advocate for the Zapatistas. She was deported.



La Isla


Dec 6, 2009, 11:59 AM

Views: 22391

    

Re: [Gringal] Deported

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In Reply To
Yes. I knew a woman who moved to Chiapas and became an advocate for the Zapatistas. She was deported.


Yes, but she was deported for doing something, and a big something at that!



BajaGringo


Dec 6, 2009, 12:43 PM

Views: 22380

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Well, if you were DOING NOTHING while...

1. Working without a visa lucrativa
2. Involved in local politics
3. Smoking funny cigarettes
4. Sitting on a park bench (naked)

Those things and a few others could possibly get you deported. My guess is there is something besides the nothing you were busy doing...


TalkBaja: Over 25K members...



SanFranDan

Dec 6, 2009, 1:20 PM

Views: 22367

    

Re: [BajaGringo] Deported

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Well, if helping a Mexican family that I have known for 15 years install a security camera system in their restaurant counts as working in Mexico, then I guess I'm guilty!!

Migracion took me in, refused to speak english, and just made me sign papers, promising to release me in the morning. Nope: After 8 days in holding, and a trip to Houston airport, I was officially out of the country!

I have money. I have 2 businesses in San Francisco. I own property in Mexico and the US.
How dumb is Mexico immigration for thinking I am "working" in Mexico for monetary gain? Absolutely stupid!

I have since found out that jealousy from another restaurant set all this in motion, and currently have a lawyer in Mexico City working on getting this resolved



Rolly


Dec 6, 2009, 2:13 PM

Views: 22343

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Citizen complaints to INM often bring swift action. I almost got caught in such a squeeze several years ago while we were building Las Casas. The grouch across the street objected to the construction noise and the smell of the paint. He complained about me to INM. They told the guy I was legal, so they would not take any action on his complaint.

Rolly Pirate



jerezano

Dec 6, 2009, 6:00 PM

Views: 22284

    

Re: [Rolly] Deported

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Hello all,

Yes, I know of one man who was deported and have heard of two others who were deported overnight, and a third who was investigated
but not deported.

The first was the ward of a man who died. This ward had fallen off a roof and had a plate in his head. He functioned well but had no short term
memory and was always getting lost. When his guardian died, this WWII veteran did not have sufficient money to maintain himself here in Mexico with the constant attendance necessary. He was deported without malice and with the aid of the US Consulate in Monterrey which paid his fare and round trip for the transit of a companion to accompany him to an arranged entry into a Veterans Home in the US.

The two I heard about were a couple of youngsters who were rumored to be using and selling dope. That was some twenty one years in the past
and before I got to Mexico. They were not permitted to take any of their belongings with them except clothing. They later called a young travel agent
who had helped them settle here in Mexico and told her that all their household furnishings and bicycles, etc were hers since she couldn't ship them out. I knew this young agent well since she spoke English well and was very helpful to all gringo newcomers to Jerez.

The third was a "remittance man", a homosexual artist who used to throw some wild parties. A gringa neibghbor who was a good friend got crosswise with him and reported him for deportation. Several of our then numerous gringo population presented counter information with immigration. He was investigated
but not even warned to change his living style and he lived here in peace for another two years before he had to go back to Colorado to arrange a
cost of living allowance from his tight-fisted estate trustee. The estate had money from oil but the trustee just did not want to disburse any of it.

Perhaps we are lucky here in Zacatecas. Our Immigration people act but always in our best interests. They will not bend any laws but they are not
precipitate in enforcing them. Only after thorough investigation and work with the people involved have they taken action.

jerezano.



esperanza

Dec 6, 2009, 6:12 PM

Views: 22274

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Yes, I do: he was working without papers and, just as in your case, was reported to INM by someone in the same line of work who was jealous and angry that this foreigner was allegedly taking work from him. From one day to the next, he was on a plane to the States. He was not allowed to take anything with him except the clothes on his back, and he was not allowed to return.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com










Marlene


Dec 6, 2009, 9:30 PM

Views: 22219

    

Re: [esperanza] Deported

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Esperanza mentioned the magic words about taking work away from a local Mexican. It doesn't matter if you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart or in exchange for hamburgers or whatever. It still counts. The local security camera installer has one less job for every charity job you do, and he needs the work. And he is entitled to it, unless you have the legal right to be doing it. It's really pretty simple.


(This post was edited by Marlene on Dec 6, 2009, 9:32 PM)



Gringal

Dec 7, 2009, 6:22 AM

Views: 22158

    

Re: [Marlene] Deported

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There is a problem even with the volunteers at the local charities...if they are doing work that could be done by a Mexican hiree.



La Isla


Dec 7, 2009, 7:46 AM

Views: 22125

    

Re: [Marlene] Deported

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In Reply To
Esperanza mentioned the magic words about taking work away from a local Mexican. It doesn't matter if you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart or in exchange for hamburgers or whatever. It still counts. The local security camera installer has one less job for every charity job you do, and he needs the work. And he is entitled to it, unless you have the legal right to be doing it. It's really pretty simple.


Quote

Couldn't have said it better myself. And it doesn't matter if you have 10 businesses in the States and own property in several countries, working without an FM3 (or 2) is illegal. Punto final! That said, I can imagine that spending 8 days in a Mexican jail is no picnic. I hope your lawyer gets everything straightened out for you in the near future.



esperanza

Dec 7, 2009, 7:50 AM

Views: 22118

    

Re: [La Isla] Deported

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Esperanza mentioned the magic words about taking work away from a local Mexican. It doesn't matter if you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart or in exchange for hamburgers or whatever. It still counts. The local security camera installer has one less job for every charity job you do, and he needs the work. And he is entitled to it, unless you have the legal right to be doing it. It's really pretty simple.


Quote

Couldn't have said it better myself. And it doesn't matter if you have 10 businesses in the States and own property in several countries, working without an FM3 (or 2) is illegal. Punto final! That said, I can imagine that spending 8 days in a Mexican jail is no picnic. I hope your lawyer gets everything straightened out for you in the near future.

Not only does one need an FM-3 or an FM-2, it's also necessary to have valid permission to work--the visa that BajaGringo mentions in Post #6 of this thread.

You absolutely can't work in Mexico by simply having an FM-3 or an FM-2.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com










SanFranDan

Dec 7, 2009, 7:51 AM

Views: 22117

    

Re: [La Isla] Deported

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Well, you have a point. However, you know what is missing here: Sentido Comun! There are no people who knew how to effectively install the system, and I was helping the local electrician!

This was plain and simple envidioso, and I was not "working" for monetary gain, nor taking a job away from a capable person. The people at Migracion where friendly; however, they where doing their job,so I understand. Amazing...welcome to a third world country



La Isla


Dec 7, 2009, 7:56 AM

Views: 22112

    

Re: [esperanza] Deported

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Esperanza mentioned the magic words about taking work away from a local Mexican. It doesn't matter if you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart or in exchange for hamburgers or whatever. It still counts. The local security camera installer has one less job for every charity job you do, and he needs the work. And he is entitled to it, unless you have the legal right to be doing it. It's really pretty simple.


Quote

Couldn't have said it better myself. And it doesn't matter if you have 10 businesses in the States and own property in several countries, working without an FM3 (or 2) is illegal. Punto final! That said, I can imagine that spending 8 days in a Mexican jail is no picnic. I hope your lawyer gets everything straightened out for you in the near future.

Not only does one need an FM-3 or an FM-2, it's also necessary to have valid permission to work--the visa that BajaGringo mentions in Post #6 of this thread.

You absolutely can't work in Mexico by simply having an FM-3 or an FM-2.


Sorry for my inaccurate post, esperanza. I was thinking of my own situation (I have an FM3 that allows me to teach English), forgetting that most MexConnect posters have FM3s (and FM2s) that only allow them to live in Mexico.



Zorba

Dec 7, 2009, 8:50 AM

Views: 22081

    

Re: [La Isla] Deported

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This is exactly why I will apply for citizenship as soon as I am eligible. The benefits of having the same rights as any Mexican far outweighs the diplomatic advantages I may have without Mexican citzenship.

I believe I read in the Mexican constitution that a foreigner can be deported at any time and assests can be seized. Not a good position to be in if you are heavily invested in the country.

Am I right about that? Does anybody know the law regarding deportation?


(This post was edited by Zorba on Dec 7, 2009, 9:15 AM)



Rolly


Dec 7, 2009, 9:01 AM

Views: 22064

    

Re: [Zorba] Deported

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Article 33 of the Mexican Constitution:

Article 33 - Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualities determined in Articled 30. They have the right to the guarantees of Chapter I of the first title of this Constitution, but the Executive of the Union has the exclusive right to expel from the national territory, immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings, all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient. Foreigners may not, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the country.

Rolly Pirate



Zorba

Dec 7, 2009, 9:13 AM

Views: 22054

    

Re: [Rolly] Deported

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Yes Rolly that is it. Thank you! It reads to me like "We can expel you anytime, anywhere, anyhow, anywhy, anywhen! Piss off the wrong person and you could find yourself and your assets gone. Hence, my application for citizenship. One thing I have learned from all my travels is that minorities are very convenient targets.


(This post was edited by Zorba on Dec 7, 2009, 9:17 AM)



SanFranDan

Dec 7, 2009, 10:50 AM

Views: 22025

    

Re: [Zorba] Deported

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http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2008/01/27/n4.html

just found this....


Edited for live link.


(This post was edited by esperanza on Dec 7, 2009, 11:05 AM)



Moisheh

Dec 7, 2009, 5:22 PM

Views: 21933

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Immigration officials being complete jerks is not limited to Mexico. There are plenty of horror stories of US officials harassing Canadians at the border. Recently an RV'r ( on his way to Mexico) was sent back to Canada as some Immigration Man decided he was coming into the country to work!! I know another who was going to Florida to help his friend fix a boat powerplant. He had some tools in his suitcase and was not allowed to leave Canada. So your case has nothing to do with Mexico being a developing nation ( it is not considered 3rd world).

Moisheh



Reefhound


Dec 7, 2009, 6:39 PM

Views: 21912

    

Re: [Moisheh] Deported

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Being denied entry is a bit different than being rounded up while living there and summarily booted out and having to leave all your property and possessions behind.



La Isla


Dec 7, 2009, 6:44 PM

Views: 21908

    

Re: [Rolly] Deported

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In Reply To
Article 33 of the Mexican Constitution:

Article 33 - Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualities determined in Articled 30. They have the right to the guarantees of Chapter I of the first title of this Constitution, but the Executive of the Union has the exclusive right to expel from the national territory, immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings, all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient. Foreigners may not, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the country.


I wonder how many other countries have a similar clause in their constitutions...



robt65

Dec 8, 2009, 3:59 PM

Views: 21756

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Hi All!

Boy this is really a timely article for me to read . . . . . you all have just scared the $#%& out of me but at least I read this in time. I have recently married a Mexican national. I have in hand a Mexican FM2 without the endorsement required for working in Mexico. I am planning to get that upon my return at the end of December. I have already taken most of my personal effects across paying the necessary duty as I did so. This was to be my last trip with my 16 foot double axel trailer and on this trip I had planned to bring across my tools (many of them) including one eight foot latter and one 20 foot extension ladder, a chop saw and stand and several other electrical tools as well as some hand tools. I am also going to bring two file cabinets and a few pieces of baby furniture two household occasional chairs. Actually I was going to go into business with my brother-in-law (Mexican National) and use the trailer for our small construction remodel business. Now I am scared to death of being deported before I even get my tools into the country.

My immigration lawyer advised me to tell them I was using the tools to remodel the house I was buying. What do you all think about this possibility? Is this too risky? The I thought of telling them I was giving all my tools to my brother-in-law as I had closed my architectural consulting business in the USA. Anyone think this would work?

Maybe it is better to get a storage locker in Texas and go back from Queretaro and get the smaller tools from time to time.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Robert



SanFranDan

Dec 8, 2009, 4:01 PM

Views: 21754

    

Re: [robt65] Deported

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What this this have to do with this thread?



robt65

Dec 8, 2009, 4:07 PM

Views: 10543

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Sorry to Upset You SanFranDan,

I read every response and much of it had to do with taking work away from others and also one specifically told aout not even being allowed to take his tools into Mexico and was refused entry. I thought it was pretty relevant and was hoping to find some positive feedback. I sure didn't mean to steal your thunder or topic as the case may be. . . .this was not my intent.

Robert



SanFranDan

Dec 8, 2009, 4:09 PM

Views: 10540

    

Re: [robt65] Deported

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WELL YOU DID!!! Haha just kidding...

Bring your tools...dont get caught working with them....



Vince3n


Dec 8, 2009, 4:19 PM

Views: 10537

    

Re: [esperanza] Deported

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Well, what we have here is that the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense.

Looks like ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) could learn a thing or two from INM...is that what ya'll think?

Regards,

Vince



mazbook1


Dec 8, 2009, 5:39 PM

Views: 10508

    

Re: [Vince3n] Deported

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Actually, "Well, what we have here is that the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense." is EXACTLY the way Homeland Security' ICE works! Also, the U.S. State Department, when issuing any type of U.S. Visa, warns the recipient that the Immigration Agent (ICE) at the border (or first U.S. airport) can refuse entry to any person, regardless of their visa status, for no stated reason and that refusal cannot be appealed.

Furthermore, the U.S. State Department Consular Services, the folks who actually issue visas, can also act as "…the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense." My wife (Mexican) was refused a fiancée visa to the U.S. with the stated "reason" of "attempted visa fraud", something my U.S. immigration lawyer told us was totally unappealable. We got married and I became a Mexican citizen. So much for that sort of nonsense.

And robt65, that person with the tools who was refused entry was trying to get in the U.S. from Canada, not into México from the U.S. I've known many, many folks with only FM3 non-working visas who brought in huge quantities of home-workshop sorts of tools with absolutely no problem whatsoever.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 8, 2009, 5:49 PM)



Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 5:53 PM

Views: 10502

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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mazbook1, you are talking about *entry* into the country. There you are right, ICE is allowed "expedited removal" when attempting to enter illegally, apprehending crossing a border illegally, or caught within 100 miles of the border and cannot show having lived here at least two years (that's a new and controversial one), and convicted felons. All other deportations require a hearing before a judge and includes an appeal process.

What esperanza (to whom vince made the comment) was talking about was a case of a person already living in the country for some time, rounded up, and deported immediately without even being able to take their stuff. In the U.S. that would require a court hearing with right to a lawyer and appeals.



mazbook1


Dec 8, 2009, 6:05 PM

Views: 10493

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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reefhound, You obviously don't read the news. Hundreds have been deported with only a passing nod to being able to have what you say, "In the U.S. that would require a court hearing with right to a lawyer and appeals." Why do you think so many, not only "liberals" are up-in-arms against the obviously illegal actions taken by ICE and the U.S. Justice Dept.? No lawyers appointed, no translators appointed and immediate validation of the ICE actions by their chosen judge.

The only difference between the Mexican INM action and similar ones for working illegaly in the U.S. is that he didn't have to rot in some detention hell-hole for weeks before his deportation.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 8, 2009, 6:10 PM)



TlxcalaClaudia

Dec 8, 2009, 6:49 PM

Views: 10472

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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I wasn't deported but I had my visa taken away. And it was unjust...it was paid plus updated with all the necessary papers. A bribe was being asked, I refused. Lesson learned...do things the way of the land (in my case I mean I should have gone in with my husband or boss...not alone!). I was in a smaller city and alone . Hubby had to return NOB quickly in the middle of my papers being updated. During final round when I had to go in alone with the last set of papers being asked, the jerk agent wanted to take advantage of the situation. If he were serious, they would have deported me...but instead he ripped my visa and showed me the door and told me I no longer had a right there. Yep, I was mad as hell...but you can't win. Go back; stay under the radar. You'll either get over it and come to accept there are just SOME things you can't change...or you'll stay away. It sucks sometimes.



Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:08 PM

Views: 10461

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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mazbook, you clearly have an axe to grind over the deal with your fiance but you haven't a clue on the issue within the U.S.

The liberals are upset (you know, the liberals control all three branches of govt now, right?) because "expedited removal" was expanded from apprehension of those caught illegally crossing at the border to those caught within 100 miles of the border.

Hundreds have been deported? What a joke. Of course, they have. There are tens of thousands of illegal aliens serving time in our prisons for violent crimes. Over 1.5 million illegally cross the border every year. When ICE raids a manufacturing plant and catches 100 illegals, they are checked against criminal records. Fugitives are subject to "expedited removal", the rest are assigned court dates and most are released on bond. Does Mexico even have an immigration court?

We can start whipping out the news links and references if you want to get to the bottom of it.



Rolly


Dec 8, 2009, 7:17 PM

Views: 10456

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Come on, folks, lets not stray into US politics. There enough bad stuff in México to talk about without looking NoB for problems.

Rolly Pirate



Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:18 PM

Views: 10454

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Some undocumented immigrants swept up on minor charges such as fishing without a license won’t face federal detention. Instead, they’ll be released on their own recognizance under an Obama administration directive to a Nashville, Tenn., sheriff who charged 6,000 people with immigration crimes over the past 2-1/2 years.
The “release on recognizance” order by Immigration and Customs Enforcement – a branch of the US Department of Homeland Security – could affect at least some of the 66 US law enforcement jurisdictions that are part of a controversial program which, in essence, deputizes local police to act as de facto immigration agents.
http://features.csmonitor.com/...e-could-be-released/
And these are illegals that were actually arrested for a violation, however minor. Try going to Mexico with no documentation, getting arrested for something minor, and then getting released.
We have millions of illegals working in the U.S., several hundred thousand just in Houston. Heck, the city of Houston has set up several work centers so the illegals have a safe place to gather looking for day work. And ICE has assured city officials they will not bother them. Show me one site like that in the entire country of Mexico.
There's no comparison at all.



Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:25 PM

Views: 10448

    

Re: [Rolly] Deported

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Sorry, was creating post before you posted. If you want to remove the facts and references then also remove the unfounded allegations that they rebutted. To equivocate that immigrants are handled the same in the U.S. as in Mexico is asinine. The fact is that ILLEGAL immigrants in the U.S. have 100x more rights than LEGAL immigrants in Mexico.



Rolly


Dec 8, 2009, 7:32 PM

Views: 10442

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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We try very hard to keep USA politics off this board. Sometimes it's hard to resist. Me too.

Politics are more welcome by our friend Scott Parks over at his place: http://expatsmexico.setbb.com/forum.html

See you over there.

Rolly Pirate



Zorba

Dec 8, 2009, 9:12 PM

Views: 10410

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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What if you have obtained Mexican citizenship? Can that be revoked from foreigners who obtained it through the immigration process?



esperanza

Dec 8, 2009, 9:16 PM

Views: 10405

    

Re: [Zorba] Deported

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Citizenship is not obtained through the immigration process--i.e., through the Insituto Nacional de Migración. Citizenship is obtained through the Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores--the Secretary of External Relations.

And yes, citizenship can indeed be revoked.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com










Vince3n


Dec 9, 2009, 4:10 AM

Views: 10383

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Mexican immigration law...looks like their citizens come first and also second.

Here, we even have immigration lawyers advertising their services on TV. Their services range from avoiding deportation to legalization of immigration status.

Reefhound, Thank You for answering my question.



Zorba

Dec 9, 2009, 5:18 AM

Views: 10373

    

Re: [esperanza] Deported

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"And yes, citizenship can indeed be revoked"

Do you know for what reason/s it could be revoked? How likely/unlikely? Just curious.


(This post was edited by Zorba on Dec 9, 2009, 5:20 AM)



gpkgto

Dec 9, 2009, 8:23 AM

Views: 10333

    

Re: [Zorba] Deported

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Esperanza will give the definitive answer here, but I remember on the papers I signed when I got my citizenship it said I could lose it if I ever denied being a Mexican citizen while in Mexico. I suppose this would refer to denying it to a policeman or other official of some kind or in some legal document. I don't intend to test it--I am proud of my Mexican citizenship.



Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 9:42 AM

Views: 10317

    

Re: [gpkisner] Deported

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I just remembered something else (not political) with regards to the appeals or lack of appeals in deportation. The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar.

Does Mexico offer similar options? Could the examples of prompt removal from Mexico posted earlier be a case of them (I believe they were asked to sign papers) "agreeing" to leave rather than risk prosecution? If one is deported, may they ever return and if so, when?



Bethie

Dec 9, 2009, 5:16 PM

Views: 10253

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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"The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar."

Just to correct you, those who "voluntary depart" still get the 10 year ban. Whether you voluntarily depart or are deported, you MAY file for a "waiver of inadmissibility" form I-601.




Vince3n


Dec 9, 2009, 6:10 PM

Views: 10236

    

Re: [Bethie] Deported

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At any rate, you can still file for a waiver; while in Mexico the incentive to have your property and possessions seize at will is there to stay, isn't it? I guess that taking this chance is the price one must pay for "the good life".

On the same train of thought, I heard that back in the early eighties, Mexico decided to nationalize the banks.
In the process they converted all foreigners saving accounts from U.S. dollars into pesos. They ruined overnight thousands of expats retires. Can anyone can shed some light?.



Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 6:43 PM

Views: 10220

    

Re: [Bethie] Deported

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In Reply To
"The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar."

Just to correct you, those who "voluntary depart" still get the 10 year ban. Whether you voluntarily depart or are deported, you MAY file for a "waiver of inadmissibility" form I-601.


"Voluntary departure" is subject to 5 year ban. As you mentioned, one can apply for a waiver. I have no data on the percentage of waivers granted versus denied. There are probably very few since they would probably require the applicant to be otherwise eligible for entry at time of application. If they were able to achieve eligibility in less than 5 years they probably would have done so in the first place.

I was actually thinking of a similar program called "voluntary return" which is used for most border apprehensions. Under this program, there are no penalties or bars.



Manuel Dexterity

Dec 9, 2009, 7:11 PM

Views: 10209

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Where does it say deportation means your property and possesions are forfeited or seized? You do not have to be physically present in the country to own property.



mazbook1


Dec 9, 2009, 7:24 PM

Views: 10204

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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And I agree with you again, M. Dexterity. I would bet that those deported from México in this manner are back within México in a few days with a new, shiny FMT. But I bet they would think twice about working illegally here!



Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 7:24 PM

Views: 10201

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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Good point. If you are deported or expelled you just have to arrange for someone to handle things on your behalf.



Manuel Dexterity

Dec 9, 2009, 7:56 PM

Views: 10187

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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In Reply To
Good point. If you are deported or expelled you just have to arrange for someone to handle things on your behalf.


Which is quite different from the "having your possesions and property seized at will" inflamatory rhetoric.



Gringal

Dec 10, 2009, 8:37 AM

Views: 10184

    

Re: [Vince3n] Deported

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The way I heard the story of the peso devaluation, people were putting dollars into Mexican peso accounts and getting huge returns. When the peso was devalued, the returns and most of the investments vanished. I also heard that the moral of the story was to play it safe and not put all your retirement money into peso accounts.

I'm sure someone will correct me if that's wrong. An acquaintance of mine did make that mistake and is still weeping about it, all these years later. He also invested in rare coins and derivatives......so no surprise. He missed out on buying coastal property of dubious ownership or ejido land. lol.



Reefhound


Dec 10, 2009, 9:54 AM

Views: 10166

    

Re: [Gringal] Deported

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Just google for "1994 peso devaluation". Basically what happened is the peso declined in value relative to the dollar from 3.5:1 to 7:1 in a week when a new president relaxed monetary controls that had been artificially maintaining it at the lower rate. While many experts feel it was handled wrong, most feel it was a necessary move in order to attract foreign investment and participate in a world economy. This is what happens when you try to artificially circumvent free market forces then can no longer maintain it. Just as wage and price freezes are almost always followed by runaway inflation, trying to artificially fix the value of currency leads to sudden devaluation.



richmx2


Dec 10, 2009, 10:28 AM

Views: 10150

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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Something is missing from the original story. Since August of 2006, illegal residence in Mexico has been a fineable offence (up to 500 salarios minimo) and jailing is very rare. When I hear about gringos being deported, there is usually a lot more than just "Oh, I was just doing some guy a favor". Like being rude to the investigators, pissing off the entire neighborhood, or forgetting to mention the baby selling business they were conducting on the side.

I-ve yet to meet the person who was deported from Mexico to the United States for no reason. The other direction... ??? Don-t get me started on the mentally challenged native Californian who was "deported" and left wandering the streets of Tijuana for weeks until Mexican authorities were able to find him.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com



arbon

Dec 10, 2009, 10:48 AM

Views: 10144

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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You will get a better undertanding if you Google,........"1994 peso devaluation chase manhattan"

(The memo was on Canadian tv news once, and then pulled, before I had a chance to copy to VHS)
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arbon

Dec 10, 2009, 10:58 AM

Views: 10140

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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"Good point. If you are deported or expelled you just have to arrange for someone to handle things on your behalf."

You make it sound as if it is as easy as getting your self into the situation in the first place.


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Reefhound


Dec 10, 2009, 11:20 AM

Views: 10130

    

Re: [arbon] Deported

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Who said anything about it being easy? It's just a fact of life. If you're ordered to be deported, you get no time out to handle your personal business, dispose of your stuff, and sell your house. It's no different when you are sentenced to jail either.



mazbook1


Dec 10, 2009, 5:13 PM

Views: 10059

    

Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Here is a little more accurate version of the 1994 devaluation than what Reefhound gave:


The Salinas administration had secretly sold bonds, denominated in dollars, with a value of more than double the foreign reserves of the country. Salinas, in the briefing books for the incoming Zedillo administration had "neglected" to expose this practice. Although the new president, himself an economist, scrambled mightily to try to save the peso, nothing could be done. The peso was finally "floated" the night of December 21, 1994.*



*footnote, page 420, Grabman, Richard. Gods, Gachupines and Gringos: A People's History of Mexico. Mazatlán: Editorial Mazatlán, 2009


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 10, 2009, 5:14 PM)



Manuel Dexterity

Dec 10, 2009, 5:24 PM

Views: 10054

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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I'd really like to see where Grabman, the ex-avocado exporter cum historian came up with the "secret" part.



mazbook1


Dec 10, 2009, 5:40 PM

Views: 10052

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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FYI, That footnote was extensively researched on the Internet and written by Grabman's editor. Since the book was written for non-academic readers, no attributions were used or footnoted in the final edited copy.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 10, 2009, 5:42 PM)



Manuel Dexterity

Dec 10, 2009, 5:52 PM

Views: 10044

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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I thought you are his editor?



mazbook1


Dec 10, 2009, 6:07 PM

Views: 10040

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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¡Tiene razón! and his publisher too! But this post had nothing to do with either me or my publishing company, it was just in answer to a rather rude, uncalled for response from you. Have you even READ the book? Maybe you should read some of the independent reviews before you denigrate someone unecessarily.



Manuel Dexterity

Dec 10, 2009, 6:26 PM

Views: 10029

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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I know the writer well from the Thorn Tree. Had a hard time believing anything he wrote.

I'd still love to hear how he/you came up with this secret bond issue.


(This post was edited by Manuel Dexterity on Dec 10, 2009, 6:27 PM)



Reefhound


Dec 10, 2009, 7:29 PM

Views: 10009

    

Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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While people were vaguely guessing about some monetary event in the 80's, I provided the search terms to more information. I wasn't trying to get into the conspiracy theories or political finger pointing or to give a primer on it, but just a basic idea and pointer on more info. Politics is always subject to interpretation and you could find any number of interpretations on a past event like this.



Marlene


Dec 10, 2009, 9:23 PM

Views: 9979

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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I understand that I'm not the only one uncomfortable with the ongoing personal attacks on two forum members, attacks which seem to be a result of doings that take place on another forum. Can we leave the bad feelings at the door?

P.S. I've read the book. It's awesome.


(This post was edited by Marlene on Dec 10, 2009, 9:27 PM)



arbon

Dec 11, 2009, 6:34 AM

Views: 9935

    

Re: [Marlene] Deported

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Marlene, on Mexconnect we have always been expected to provide the source of our infomation, other wise it is just stated as opinion.

There is a request on this thread for a link to "The Salinas administration had secretly sold bonds"
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richmx2


Dec 11, 2009, 7:14 AM

Views: 9929

    

Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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Ah, now I remember who this "Manuel Dexterity" is -- one of those people I learned to ignore years ago. Like most people who've done a lot of consulting/contract work, I've been involved with my share of stinkers along the way. As far as I know, my work for ENRON had nothing to do with that company's failure any more than my work for the avocado company did. The only connection between working for an avocado exporter that went spectacularly belly up has to do with writing Mexican history was that company's failure was one reason I returned to the U.S. for a time to recoup my finances ... and created an opportunity to finish the manuscript.

On the question of the "secrecy" involving the peso's over-valuation, Dr. Zedillo -- being an economist as well as a politician -- would have reason to claim he was not informed, but every source I can find -- including those biased against Zedillo and/or the PRI -- confirms that this was, indeed, the case. The non-partisan 2007 biography of Zedillo published by the Cento de Estudios Internationales de Barcelona 2007 (part of a series on Latin American leaders) is as good a starting place as any for a discussion on this...

... which might be interesting in another forum, and not in a thread supposedly about deportation.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com



SanFranDan

Dec 11, 2009, 7:22 AM

Views: 9923

    

Re: [richmx2] Deported

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what happened to my thread?





richmx2


Dec 11, 2009, 7:26 AM

Views: 9918

    

Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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I wondered the same thing, Dan... and -- in a long-winded way -- hoped we can get back to it, rather than talking about me.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com



Gringal

Dec 11, 2009, 7:33 AM

Views: 9912

    

Re: [richmx2] Deported

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Could we return to the original thread, which was much more interesting that the leftover Thorne Tree conflicts?
That is, unless it's more fun to read curmudgeons engage in a pizzing contest out here in thin air.



Rolly


Dec 11, 2009, 7:36 AM

Views: 9910

    

Time to move on

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This thread has turned into a long mishmash of subjects and personal attacks, so it's time to move on.

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 11, 2009, 7:37 AM)