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Veracruzana

Oct 16, 2006, 7:39 AM

Post #26 of 60 (4033 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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In addition to all the good ideas proposed above, IF telephone, television, and having a computer at home and being able to use it are a MUST for you, then make sure the place you decide on has those services available. Double check on it, don't take the word of a realtor or just one friendly person. Go to the company and see if that particular service goes to your neighborhood. When we found our house, we were told...oh yes, it has all services. Then we went to the Megacable company to set up our contract only to find that it did not go to that neighborhood yet....maybe in a year. Telephone....maybe would take up to three months.
Also patience and flexibility are characteristics you had better have if you want to live in Mexico. Services rendered by utility companies are not what they are in the States. And flexibility for things such as types of food you will be able to find in stores and markets. Being broad minded when it comes to local customs and traditions won't hurt either.

drfugawe

Oct 16, 2006, 9:17 AM

Post #27 of 60 (4013 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Arbon, Gringal, and Georgia,
NOB, there is a cultural reality as regards cost of living; one's standard of living is always just a bit higher than one's available resources. However, I can also tell you from real life personal experience that if one is will to change one's standard of living, it is every bit as true that one can live well within, or below, one's available resources - even NOB.

We retired 4 years ago and dreaded the so-called reality of having retirement expenses which equaled 80% of our working resources. Currently, we are doing fine at about 50% of our pre-retirement income. Are we able to do everything we had dreamed about doing when we retired? No. We had to change our standard of living to match our available resources. But we do get to spend our winters SOB, and keep busy with our old and new life interests as we wish.

I agree with Arbon that the 80% retirement COL is a device invented by investment counselors and such. The key is changing one's standard of living, and that ain't that hard. I even doubt that if retirees didn't change a thing they were doing prior to retirement, they still wouldn't need 80% of their pre-retirement income, NOB or SOB!
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###

javawaveC

Oct 16, 2006, 12:01 PM

Post #28 of 60 (3978 views)

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Re: [drfugawe] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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My only suggestion after being here only a month is if you are purchasing a home do a home inspection so you know what to expect cost-wise when you arrive--we've bought & sold several homes NOB and we always had home inspections--don't know why we overlooked it here--a lesson learned!

Gringal

Oct 16, 2006, 12:19 PM

Post #29 of 60 (3973 views)

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Re: [drfugawe] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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" We had to change our standard of living to match our available resources."
____________________________________________________

The original question was whether or not one could live on less than 80% of his/her pre-retirement income at the same standard of living. I think you just made my point.

I am belaboring the matter here because we are supposed to be in the position of giving accurate advice to potential retirees. It is true that if someone wants to hang in there in the U.S. in his/her hometown, it is possible. But expect to have option shrinkage, and it still depends on the location of your hometown. The tax collector isn't going to reduce your assessment because you're retired.

Then, it is also a question of 80% of what? I'd be happy with 50% of the local congessman's retirement check, if they'd hand over his health plan to go with it.

(This post was edited by Gringal on Oct 16, 2006, 12:29 PM)

DoDi2

Oct 16, 2006, 2:20 PM

Post #30 of 60 (3942 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Gringal... you hit the nail on the head as far as U.S. retirees are concerned, especially early retirees: i.e. health care costs!

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Oct 16, 2006, 3:16 PM

Post #31 of 60 (3929 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Then, it is also a question of 80% of what? I'd be happy with 50% of the local congessman's retirement check, if they'd hand over his health plan to go with it.
Gringal

If you had a congressmans retirement check, you wouldn't need the health plan. You could buy your own.
Getting older and still not down here.

wendy devlin

Oct 16, 2006, 3:47 PM

Post #32 of 60 (3920 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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>you hit the nail on the head as far as U.S. retirees are concerned, especially early retirees: i.e. health care costs!

Dodi,
Could you please explain to someone not from the U.S.A. why so many U.S. retirees especially early retirees find themselves in this position?

Are there no effective measures that a person could have taken during their working life-times to provide medical care in their home country for themselves after retirement?

In case my questions sound really naive, I've actually attempted to follow this issue for over 15 years. Understand that the lower income groups are somewhat taken care or and the highest income earners, take care of themselves but what about the millions in between?

Mostly I hear on these fora that it can't be done or isn't easily done.

Is this based on errors of omission or commission or other?

Now, politics may rear its many heads, but if you could keep it simple, that would be appreciated.

DoDi2

Oct 16, 2006, 4:11 PM

Post #33 of 60 (3914 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Wendy, in my opinion the health care fiasco in the U.S. is what is driving a huge amount of retiree interest in moving SOB.

The situation in the U.S. is that medical care costs are throught the roof. The reasons are many but it comes down in many cases to the medical industry, especially the pharmacutical companies, owning the U.S. government... almost all the elected officials on both sides of the aisle are snuggly in thier back pockets.

Add to that the Bush administration ideologues and thier extreme uber-right wing zeal to roll back FDR's social safety network (social security, medicare, public education, etc.) and you have a situation where the present regime is naturally hostile to the very programs it is supposed to steward for the public good. Medicare is going down the financial toilet from bad management many times faster than Social Security... much to the barely contained glee of the Rethuglican Party.

This leaves the average joe and jane in the hands of the insurance industry. First of all they better be employed, and employed by the dwindling number of employers who can even afford to give thier employees health insurance coverage at the bloated prices the medical insurance mafia (as my doctor calls them) demands. Can you imagine folks working minimum wage or even average wage jobs, much less fixed income, and paying out the 500 - 1000 bucks a month it costs to get private insurance? Then GAWD forgive you if you actually ever get sick because the insurance company will boot you off thier policy if you do, or raise the rate to where you can't pay, or never ever insure you in the first place.

The whole thing is a total mess. So much for the uber-free market fanatics.... see what energy deregulation did to California and how it made the Enron criminals rich? Well the national health insurance non-system in the U.S. works on about the same prinicples.

I could go on and on about this... and also how in the U.S. you'll see a doctor at your HMO or 'approved' clinic for about 15 minutes if your lucky, then the doctor will be forced to follow a plan for your treatment that was put together not by him or her, but by the accountants back at ACME HEALTH INSURANCY CORP HQ to make sure he doesn't spend one cent more on a single suture than they allow. It's a cookie cutter cost saving treatment, welcome to solyent green.

Then, if you need treatment but don't have insurance you go to an emergency room! can you believe it! that's because doctors and medical treatment cost hundreds or thousands of dollars for what would cost tens of dollars in any rational country. And many doctors dont' accept medicare or public medical aid programs because they don't pay enough to cover the ridiculous price of U.S. medical care... or perhaps the price of U.S. medical industry greed.

If you can't pay then either you don't get treated or you get your life savings taken away from you by the bill collector.

Gringal

Oct 16, 2006, 4:41 PM

Post #34 of 60 (3907 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Now that I've meditated long enough to bring down my blood pressure, snagged a cuppa tea and settled into Rational Thought, I'll add to the mix.
This is a subject dear to my heart since the major breadwinner in my family was downsized well before being eligible for Medicare coverage.

Poof! Went the good medical care coverage. We had the option of using a program called COBRA to cover us for a while. At $800 per month. After that, we obtained catastrophic coverage at less cost, but it covered nothing for normal medical care.

Once a person is eligible for Medicare, it is usually necessary to carry a supplemental policy for the gaps in coverage. Between the cost of this, the co-pays and dental care, we were putting out almost $5000 per year. This did not cover drugs. According to reliable sources, the average person over 65 has an average of five prescription medications. The new "drug benefit" program is not adequate, in my opinion.

There are over 45 million uninsured people in the U.S. They are not desititute enough to receive Medicaid nor well off enough to buy insurance at todays' prices. Their outlook is grim. They are told to save money for their retirement. Oh, right.

Fast forward to Mexico, where we moved two years ago: We are self insured. Fortunately, we are also healthy and are not on a drug regime. First medical crisis: I had a cold that escalated to pneumonia. Went to a internist. Had X-rays. Took antibiotics and auxiliary medicines. Had another appointment with the doc. Got more drugs. Total cost: about $200. Needless to say, that was less than the cost of one months' coverage in the U.S., with the benefit of Medicare and supplemental coverage.

If an early retiree comes to Mexico, he/she will be looking at costs like that. Doctors don't rush you through the office. They don't overprescribe. If necessary, they make house calls. Things could be worse. This is not a good reason to move to Mexico, but it is a nice side benefit.

Needless to say, I'm in favor of a reform of the U.S. healthcare system and hope the politicians see the light before the U.S. ranks with third world nations in its delivery of health care to the population.

DoDi2

Oct 16, 2006, 4:54 PM

Post #35 of 60 (3899 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Excellent post Gringal. Obviously I had neither a cup of tea nor meditation to calm me when I posted my reply. thanks.

thriftqueen

Oct 16, 2006, 4:55 PM

Post #36 of 60 (3898 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Now, politics may rear its many heads, but if you could keep it simple, that would be appreciated.

Wendy, there are no simple answers as in a free economy there are so many variables. True, many politicians are on the take in both parties. In my opinion the biggest mistake was allowing "for profit" corporations to get into the healthcare business. That is when cost soared out of sight.

Are there no effective measures that a person could have taken during their working life-times to provide medical care in their home country for themselves after retirement?

Yes, there are some effective measures a person can take during their working life - my husband spent 21 years as a Firefighter for a major US city. He worked longer hours than most folks for less pay but he did so because he did not have the advantage of higher education. He realized how important a retirement would be for us. Today we live quite comfortably on his retirement and our social securities (his SS being small from working second jobs as he paid into the state retirement program and at that time was not required to pay into SS). We pay $315.00 per month for our secondary health coverage (BC/BS) partially funded through the state retirement plan, our primary coverage being Medicare which cost us per month $88.50 each. We are allowed to select our own doctors. Yes, they must take Medicare however I have used Mayo Clinic and they do not take Medicare but will file your claim, they charge 15% more than Medicare pays. We choose to use US health facilities. We simply arrange our budget to pay any overages that may be required.

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Oct 16, 2006, 4:59 PM

Post #37 of 60 (3896 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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And also, don't forget to add to your dissertation that the pharmacies add their markups to drugs up to as much as 2000%. It's not always the pharmacutical companies cause for high drug cost although they bear a lot of it.

'scuse my spelling.
Getting older and still not down here.

Gringal

Oct 16, 2006, 5:25 PM

Post #38 of 60 (3886 views)

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Re: [DoDi2] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Nothing wrong with a little passion. Goes with the picture.

Don

Oct 16, 2006, 5:33 PM

Post #39 of 60 (3879 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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"Once a person is eligible for Medicare, it is usually necessary to carry a supplemental policy for the gaps in coverage. Between the cost of this, the co-pays and dental care, we were putting out almost $5000 per year. This did not cover drugs. According to reliable sources, the average person over 65 has an average of five prescription medications. The new "drug benefit" program is not adequate, in my opinion."

I have to disagree. I find the coverage I receive from Medicare, my Medi-gap coverage and the my medicine Medicare D coverage very good. My total premium for the above is less than $300 U.S. per month.

In February of this year, I had to return to the U.S. for a liver transplant. My Mexican doctors sent me back to the U.S. for this treatment. They said it could be done in Mexico, but I would probably die waiting for a transplant of any organ in Mexico.

While getting a new liver, I became a diabetic, and they found beginning prostate cancer for which I also received radiation treatments.They also found a few other items to treat. I have been in the U.S. since February and my treatments are now ending. The total bills sent to my above insurance carriers totals some where between 1 and 2 million dollars. THAT IS RIGHT. U.S. DOLLARS. My total out-of-pockets expenses will run between $2,000 and $3,000 U.S. dollars. Those out of pocket charges were for medicines which probably will total somewhere around $50,000+ of which my insurance paid the balance.

I find that to be very good coverage for my U.S. insurance.

I will be returning to Mexico very soon and I will need yearly follow-up with doctors and monthly blood tests. In Mexico, I have full coverage with IMSS, so I can get my check-ups there. Medical care in Mexico is good and resonable, but in some cases, like mine, is not enough. You should be aware of your medical problems or potential problems and cover yourself accordingly.

(This post was edited by Don on Oct 16, 2006, 5:40 PM)

MazDee

Oct 16, 2006, 7:09 PM

Post #40 of 60 (3850 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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But Don, the question is, what about people not old enough to get Medicare? I think this is the point. The fact is, there are millions in the US who have no coverage at all. I left a state job and started my own business in California. I paid the Kaiser fee under COBRA for 2 years, then the price went up to where I could no longer afford it. I went without coverage for years. Finally, I got smart and before retiring, I spent a few more years working for a state department. Now I do have coverage, as a retiree. But, I am lucky. I have a number of friends here in Mazatlán who retired early and can't possibly afford US insurance anymore. Usually, they go with the Méxican system, IMSS, which is affordable and, at least here in Maz, very good. I have been pretty healthy despite my dissolute lifestyle, so I have no problem paying my doc a few pesos for the occasional malady. If I were to have a serious medical problem, I have my BC/BS from California. I am eligible for Medicare now, but have opted out of plan B, since my insurance co assumes I will get treatment here in México. This is a huge problem in the US, and for US citizens moving down here who are under 65, and there are many of them.

Gringal

Oct 16, 2006, 8:17 PM

Post #41 of 60 (3829 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Glad to hear it all worked out for you.

The $5000 yearly for medical care I referred to was for two people, including out of pocket for co-pays and drugs.

(This post was edited by Gringal on Oct 16, 2006, 8:20 PM)

Bubba

Oct 17, 2006, 7:53 AM

Post #42 of 60 (3778 views)

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Re: [MazDee] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Mazdee is right. It´s the gap between retirement and eligibility for Medicare. My wife and I both worked in the private sector. I worked for banks and she worked for a major corporation in the wine industry. Whe we retired, I was 59 and she was 54. We were offered COBRA coverage which, at that time was $800 a month (2001) and God know what it is now. We are fully covered for major medical in Mexico by ING for $160 a month and that´s for far superior medical care than we would get in the states.

VSOP

Oct 17, 2006, 8:34 AM

Post #43 of 60 (3764 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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In yesterday's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/16/business/16united.html

United Health Care's chief resigns over $1.1 BILLIION in options.

No hay rosas sin espinas . . .

sandykayak

Oct 17, 2006, 9:02 AM

Post #44 of 60 (3759 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Hola, Wendy.

This is something that I worry about. My new husband will be 65 next year, so he's OK. He also listened to me and bought the Mexican major medical plan from ING (abot $1,400 USD for the whole year) even though he won't be using it (has private BC/BS in LA) but (for some unexplained reason) you need to purchase it before age 64. For the life of me I can't understand why a, say, 66-year-old, can't buy a policy, even at a higher rate!

I'll be eligible to retire in 2008 at age 62. I work for Miami-Dade County and pay $10 USD a pay period for Cigna health insurance. It would be free if I chose AvMed. I didn't even get a "here's what we are billing your insurance company" letter from the hospital when I had the hip replacement earlier this year, but understand it was probably in the region of $50,000.

The County does not offer health insurance to retirees, but I can opt to continue paying the full amount of (in today's money) $700 a month - for one person! This will take a huge chunk out of our retirement income, but I can't afford not to have it. Just reading Don of Sayula's medical problems gives me the heebeejeebies - fortunately he had Medicare. (And this is a frequent reason given by people who thought they were moving to Mexico forever.)

To make matters worse, unless I stay in Miami and use the doctors "in" the plan (I have a $10 co-pay for doctor's visits), I will have to go on a 70/30 option elsewhere. Can you imagine having to pay (impossible!) 30% of Don's medical bills?

This concern alone may impact my decision on whether I really CAN afford to retire at age 62.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

Don

Oct 17, 2006, 9:29 AM

Post #45 of 60 (3747 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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"We are fully covered for major medical in Mexico by ING for $160 a month and that´s for far superior medical care than we would get in the states."

Bubba, I agree that they have excellent medical care in Mexico. Both I and my wife have had surgery done here. My wife has many doctors in her family here. But, to say "Mexico has far superior medical care than we can get in the states", is wishful thinking. Sure you didn't mean less expensive? The only reason I went to the U.S. for treatment was the lack of organ donors in Mexico. That program is in early stages of development.

Lack of affordable medical care in the U.S. is a problem. Health insurance is high, but the costs of doctors, hospitals, medicine costs and lab works there, have driven up the cost of insurance. Even though the costs are reasonable in Mexico, you will find a large population here, can't afford good medical coverage.

arbon

Oct 17, 2006, 9:43 AM

Post #46 of 60 (3739 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

"Health insurance is high, but the costs of doctors, hospitals, medicine costs and lab works there, have driven up the cost of insurance."

I am ready to stand corrected, but according to all the inquires into the States health-care industry, the main cost problem is the administration, and the insurance companies them selves.

Doctors have a high price to pay for "malpractice insurance" and other very expensive "over head" costs.

That is just one of many reasons, given by Canadian doctors returning to Canada from the States.

But they could play golf all year.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don

Oct 17, 2006, 10:34 AM

Post #47 of 60 (3717 views)

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Re: [arbon] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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I have to say that no one thing or person is to blame. I believe that they all have contributed to higher costs. When I can get a blood test in Sayula, Jalisco for 800 pesos and the same blood test in the U.S. costs $1,000 U.S., something is out of whack.

(This post was edited by Don on Oct 17, 2006, 10:38 AM)

wendy devlin

Oct 17, 2006, 11:12 AM

Post #48 of 60 (3706 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Thanks to everyone so far, for the feed-back. Good stuff!

Your personal 'case histories' confirm information from other sources.

My three brothers hitched their stars to America, in their younger years. Now nearing their fifties, they face the realities you are describing.

Perhaps they will repatriate to Canada upon retirement...for medical reasons...quien sabe?

However the medical system here faces great challenges...and by no means, is the situation, we've had in the past... a given.

Gringal

Oct 17, 2006, 11:20 AM

Post #49 of 60 (3703 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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You said it. Something is out of whack.

For potential retirees who are too young for Medicare, it is a big decision to move to Mexico and out of whatever health insurance they have. Most companies won't insure you if you have anything wrong with you, in case you drop the policy and want it back.

As to what is out of whack, we could try stupidity and cupidity for starters. Stupidity, because unlike other Western countries, the U.S. does not have a universal health care coverage plan which spreads the cost over both the healthy and the infirm.

Cupidity, because a lot of Medicare and other insurance dollars are going into the pockets of those who aren't engaged in taking care of sick people.

Added to that, there is the cost of treating preventable diseases. As most people are aware of, the U.S. is suffering from a staggering increase in diseases directly related to unhealthy personal choices. Too many expect modern medicine to replace a lifetime of abusing their bodies.

wendy devlin

Oct 17, 2006, 1:00 PM

Post #50 of 60 (3677 views)

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Re: [Don] Caveats to Potential Retirees in Mexico

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Don,
>will be returning to Mexico very soon and I will need yearly follow-up with doctors and monthly blood tests

All the best for your recovery from the liver transplant.
Bien viaje on your trip home to Sayula. wendy

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