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jennifer rose

Jan 29, 2005, 8:58 PM

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What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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This afternoon at a party the conversation turned to bum steers and bad advice doled out in the "How to Live in Mexico" literature. One lady of a certain age mentioned that she'd read that expatriates should dress down, only to find herself feeling very out of place wearing clamdiggers and tennis shoes to an afternoon barbeque where everyone else, a mostly Mexican crowd, was all dressed up. She remarked that she found herself dressing somewhat better, or at least dressing up more, than she did when she lived in the US.

Without disparaging any of the purveyors of the "Living in Mexico" genre, have any of you found yourself questioning some of the advice given? Have you ever felt like a complete fool by following those rules?

(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Jan 30, 2005, 6:56 AM)

Anonimo

Jan 30, 2005, 1:52 AM

Post #2 of 29 (2721 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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I don't know if this falls under the heading of "bad advice", but I'd read in a book on travel in Mexico that Mexican life tends to be family centered (true, IMO) and that foreign visitors are almost NEVER invited into Mexican homes. That may be true in the business world, but our experiences have been quite the opposite.

Saludos,
Anonimo

ms mac

Jan 30, 2005, 7:20 AM

Post #3 of 29 (2700 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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You can live in Mexico on $400 a month.
ms mac

Carron

Jan 30, 2005, 7:30 AM

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Don't eat the fruits and fresh vegetables.

donwilliston

Jan 30, 2005, 8:39 AM

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Jennifer,

Any advice that starts with “Mexicans are …”. The implicit categorization of a diverse people rather than meeting each person as an individual certainly narrows any experience no matter where you are.

Also any sentence that starts with “Mexico is …” should be suspect because of the extreme variation from one colonia to another, not to mention from state to state.

don

---
"It's good enough to be true" Gracie Maurahan 1970
---

Marlene

Jan 30, 2005, 8:25 PM

Post #6 of 29 (2602 views)

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Re: [donwilliston] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Or how about "why don't they.......?" or "why do they....?" ("they" being the people of Mexico)

Marlene

Jan 30, 2005, 9:11 PM

Post #7 of 29 (2593 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Dressing down to go out does not seem to be something that happens here either. When the local gals go out for an evening they are anything but dressed down. And no, it really isn't possible for a foreigner to know how to dress to "fit in" without a lengthy period of observation and change of mindset. (I get asked this question all the time.)

Bubba

Jan 31, 2005, 6:51 AM

Post #8 of 29 (2563 views)

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Re: [Marlene] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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I guess the worst advice we got was to rent down here rather than buy a home so that we could acquaint ourselves with the community first and avoid resell risk if we found ourselves uncomfortable in this environment. We live in the Lake Chapala area and were also the recipients of dire warnings about the future of the lake and what we considered preposturous warnings about the dramatically negative climate changes that would accompany the loss of the lake.

Now, we didn't avoid the above advice because we were smart but because we had three huge mastiffs and two cats and didn't want to be at the mercy of a landlord. We also lived in Coastal California for years and knew that those who were afraid to buy back in the 1970s were left behind in a cloud of dust. We believed we saw some of the same factors in Highlands Mexico that we saw in California 30 years ago and, at the present time, the real estate market is doing remarkably well here. I was a banker too long to predict tomorrow and have seen dramatic boom and bust real estate cycles in Los Angeles and San Francisco; however, if the market goes bust here at least we will have a roof over our heads.

By the way, what ever happened to our old friend Jim Bentein who so famously and loudly moved to Mazatlan a couple of years ago predicting the demise of the lake communities? Didn't he advise us all to flee this place forthwith?

NickP

Jan 31, 2005, 7:01 AM

Post #9 of 29 (2554 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Worst advice I received was within the first week of our arrival to Mexico back in 1999.

I told by a couple of retirees at a local three letter club that starts with L and ends with S, was that I didn't "belong here" because of my age. At that time I was 36.

I was also told that my idea of opening a cyber-cafe lakeside was a silly idea.

I'm proud to say that, that "silly idea" is, Cafe Internet Ajijic and is still open even two years after I sold it.

The funny thing is 6 months after I was open for business that same three letter club came through my doors looking for advertising and donations for various functions.

Georgia

Jan 31, 2005, 1:45 PM

Post #10 of 29 (2481 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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The worst advice we had was to sell everything and buy a furnished home and purchase other items as needed. The best advice we received was to have my husband move all his shop equipment down (along with everything else we wanted to keep). We rejected the former advice, took the latter, and don't regret a minute or a penny of it. Husband is now happily sawing away in his taller and all is well.

sandykayak

Jan 31, 2005, 3:53 PM

Post #11 of 29 (2457 views)

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Re: [Bubba] What's the Worst Advice You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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this is from my "Rent v Buy" file when I asked for advice: (also got replies from U Donnie, Rolly, Gary Anderson, Ian... this was before the lake started filling and AARP's La Vida Cheapo:

Bubba said: 9/7/03
Sandy:
#1 Rule of Thumb:

Buy here only if you plan to stay here. Presume that you will not be able to sell your property for any amount of money. You are assuming sovereign and exchange risk, which are serious long-term problems. The real estate market here is unpredictable. Mexico is not to be confused with Florida or California.

That having been said; I am a commercial banker who has seen real estate values increase and decline over the years in California. The elements here presage a strong investment potential. Why? Attractive retirement places in the U.S. are becoming too expensive and this is certain to become worse in the next ten years as the retired population increases rapidly. There is no climate in the U.S. or Canada that can begin to compare with this place.

As the baby boomers retire, demand for housing here will grow exponentially especially as retirement communities in the north become even more outrageously expensive.

Remember that those who grouse about declining property values here who bought their homes ten years or more ago have seen property values increase tremendously. They are the last people who should be complaining. They just like to bitch. Ask them if they would prefer to move back to North Dakota.

If things go bad (excepting serious political turmoil scaring away investment and rendering the place dangerous) you can live here for nothing compared to the north if you must gear down.

You can live on frijoles, tortillas, serranos and an occasional beer and never forget that.>>

No, bubba, I won't forget that. I DID buy a house in El Parque and it will be paid for before I retire.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

Esteban

Jan 31, 2005, 4:26 PM

Post #12 of 29 (2451 views)

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Bentein and the Lake

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The Benteins appear to be very happy in their new home located a few blocks from the beach. They like Mazatlan much more than Chapala but everyone has different needs. Their home is in a great area and cost MUCH less than anything similar in Chapala. Investment wise, Bentein's place will go up in value, there is no doubt. Certain parts of Mazatlan are just beginning to be discovered. As to a housing bubble pop up north, both he and I think that it will happen. How that will affect housing south of the border is a complex question. All I know is that if I had a home in the US, I'd take a second on it, buy a place down here and let the bank take the house back, up north, when the market collapses'.

Jim was wrong as far as the lake level goes and knowing Jim, he'll be the first to admit it. The housing prices in Chapala may be affected by the bubble pop up north but as we all know, houses in Mexico are bought with cash. So, those who own places, will at least have a place to live. I've always said, who cares what you pay if you plan on staying put. I won't say why the Bentein's wouldn't return to Chapala for all the tea in China because you should hear it from them. I've heard the same story from several people but you know, different strokes for different folks.

Bubba

Jan 31, 2005, 5:39 PM

Post #13 of 29 (2430 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Bentein and the Lake

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Esteban, Jim Beintein, Bubba and several other clowns are willing to stick our necks out and that is what makes posting around here fun. Jim's premise was based on facts known at the time and his arguments were well thought out. The Huichols screwed him up with their rain rituals.

We have a good friend who is from Ivory Coast and is an accomplished conductor and musician in Tours, France who loves to tell us the story of the Gris Gris that the locals use to cast a spell upon visiting European soccer teams in order to make them lose matches. European soccer managers and officials cannot understand the rituals surrounding the cursing of their teams' efforts and have no patience for these shenanigans but, win or lose, they live unknowingly under the West African spell cast upon them. To bring this sort of phenomenon home to Jalisco, how could Jim Bentein possibly know that the Huichols could ritually overcome all logic and refill the lake through spiritual endeavor despite all signs indicating its demise?

We cast curses upon Yankees in Alabama as well. That's why they always find themselves living in trailer parks with the only freeway entrances leading straight to Akron.

Texwheel

Jan 31, 2005, 10:37 PM

Post #14 of 29 (2389 views)

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Re: [Georgia] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Georgia,

I have to tell you that several months ago when I suggested a quoted price of about + or - $12 or $13k for a door to door from Texas to Lakeside, you said you paid or were quoted a buttload less for, I think more or the same, from a longer distance. Then I remember another higher quote from you, later, for about that same amount for the same thing. I'm not gonna search the archives over it, but which was it? Did I miss something?
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

Georgia

Feb 1, 2005, 6:22 AM

Post #15 of 29 (2367 views)

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Re: [Texwheel] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Both. Ha! No, seriously, we did our move in two stages: first move: a liftvan (don't know the specific measurements, but it's apparently a common term in the moving industry) of furniture, including sofa, 2 upholstered chairs, dining room table, sideboard, bedroom set, two twin beds, 2 small upholstered chairs, desk, end tables, and a few other items I can't remember, came to about $3000 NY/Lakeside. The second move, three years later, which was for an enormous trailer (53') carrying everything else, plus my husband's entire shop, dishes, glassware, etc. including about 275 boxes, came to about $13,000, they packed, door to door, NY/Lakeside.

Texwheel

Feb 1, 2005, 12:11 PM

Post #16 of 29 (2302 views)

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Re: [Georgia] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Thanks. That explains it. It does sound like you got a good deal. I've downsized twice since a divorce six years ago...the "ultimate" downsizing will have to be before (hopefully) moving SOB some day. (BTW, upon rereading my post to you, it seemed a bit huffy. I didn't mean it to be.)
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

Bubba

Feb 1, 2005, 1:57 PM

Post #17 of 29 (2266 views)

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Re: [Texwheel] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Tom Bob:

Don't ever apologize here. It's unbecoming. Bubba never paid nearly no $13,000USD to move down his Big Boy Recliner, collection of Buster Brown Flap Guns from the shoe department at Beeland Mercantile circa 1953, the lava lamp,the Jesus-With-The-Eyes-That-Follow-You-Around-The-Room portrait that glows in the dark, Grandma's old television schedule scribbled out on Kleenex that reminded her that Arthur Godfrey came on WCOV out of Montgomery at 9:00AM every weekday morning, the Charles Atlas Inflatable stomach shrinking plastic belt that only worked if you were wearing your See-Through-Yellow-Fog Glasses which you could buy with 20 boxtops from Wheaties, Breakfast of Champions and, finally, his circa 1952 plastic guaranteed penis enhancer which never actually enhanced his penis for more than about 10 minutes but was more fun to work than Dad's power mower on that three acre lawn with the pecan trees but that is another subject.

Take Bubba's word for it. Leave all that crap back in Fresno. Within five years you won't be able to recall what happened to the baby chicks you bought from Wolfman Jack out at XERF in Del Rio, Texas. You remember. They were the seed that would start your chicken and hamster business that would make you a millionaire out of your own garage if your dad and mom had not been so short sighted and disposed of your flock while you were in school. Maybe that's why they're dead now and also they never bought that Florida swamp land they now call Miami Beach when they had the opportunity despite your advice and all they needed was a one year subscription to the Miami Herald. Christ awlmighty! Had they listened to you you could tell the manager down at Long John Silver's that he could fry his own popcorn shrimp (which are not shrimp at all but little surimi balls) , by God and you wouldn't have to wear that cheesy pirate's outfit anymore and say stuff like, "Ahoy there, mateys, what will it be tonight?"

Georgia

Feb 1, 2005, 2:23 PM

Post #18 of 29 (2258 views)

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Re: [Bubba] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Ah, but Bubba, you were probably not blessed with ten children who have to be accommodated on a very regular basis. Then there are the college kids who still have "stuff" they want to keep, the guest house to furnish, and that aforementioned shop where my hubby is ridiculously contented making furniture. What price happiness??

Carol Schmidt

Feb 1, 2005, 2:49 PM

Post #19 of 29 (2247 views)

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Re: [Georgia] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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I sure wish we had brought our fancy kitchen utensils, pans and knives. We've rebought pizza peels, good can openers, kitchen scales, all kinds of stuff down here and are still looking for a good cookie sheet. If we had moved our household instead of just what fit into the back of our small SUV, I sure would have loved to still have our teal leather sofa. Finding comfortable furniture here took six months.

I sure wish I hadn't sold all my arts and crafts supplies, especially my polymer clay and stamping materials and about 200 bottles of acrylic paints, and the pasta machine for the polymer clay. And the pasta machine we used for pasta. And all Norma's tools, especially her electric drill and the Dremel craft tools. We were loaded to the ceiling, but I still wish we could have crammed in more.

Best advice I didn't get: bring everything that's special to you. If you don't care if you can only find a wobbly can opener, leave that $15 one that fits your hand just right behind. If you don't love your wok, or your well-seasoned heavy black cast iron pan, and you don't mind paying double in Mexico what they cost in the States if you can ever find them again, or you don't mind using stuff that never quite performs the way you want, leave it behind. If you have the slightest twinge when you try to put a price on it for a garage sale, bring it somehow.

Even if you never wear that perfect rose blazer you love and don't think you will ever wear it again, if you get that twinge when you start pricing for the garage sale, pack it someplace. You'll find the perfect skirt to wear with it when you get here.

Worst advice I got: a conversational Spanish class back in Phoenix will help a lot when you move to Mexico. Might as well have taken French.

Carol Schmidt

elgringomudo

Feb 2, 2005, 12:58 AM

Post #20 of 29 (2189 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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In Reply To

I sure wish we had brought our fancy kitchen utensils, pans and knives. We've rebought pizza peels, good can openers, kitchen scales, all kinds of stuff down here and are still looking for a good cookie sheet. Finding comfortable furniture here took six months.
Best advice I didn't get: bring everything that's special to you. If you don't care if you can only find a wobbly can opener, leave that $15 one that fits your hand just right behind. If you don't love your wok, or your well-seasoned heavy black cast iron pan, .

Well, now I have a nice list of gifts to get from the Family Dollar store to take to my in-laws. Cookie sheets, huh? Never thought of that, but OTOH, I rarely see any of my in-laws using an oven. Usually, they use it for utensil storage.

Woks are great for making chiles rellenos.

If you can't find decent muebles, you're not looking in the right places. My brother-in-law Fidel (Not THAT Fidel) does a good business in Edomex peddling furniture made in Cd. Hidalgo, Michoacan. I've met numerous Mexicans who have their houses well fitted with comfortable Mexican made furniture. There's even a magazine, "Muebles y Decoraciones" dedicated to the Mexican furniture and interior decoration industry.

Last time I went to a Wal-Mart in the DF, they had electric can openers. But no decent teapots. The type of electric teapot used in the UK would be a swell gift, if that utensil worked on 120 instead of 240 volts...
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
Fighting bad sound and electronic ignorance since
1985 (sorry, folks, it's taking a little longer than I thought)

1ajijic

Feb 2, 2005, 6:59 AM

Post #21 of 29 (2162 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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Every type of furniture you could possibly want can be found in Guadalajara. There are several furniture Expos a year. if you are willing to be patient there are sales with up to 75% off!
http://www.newbeginningsmexico.com

Cynthia7

Feb 2, 2005, 8:00 AM

Post #22 of 29 (2137 views)

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Re: [1ajijic] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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I am sure in large cities - like- Monterray, Mexico City and Guadalajara- almost anything is available. In Sma and surrounding cities - finding comfortable upholstered furniture that is reasonably priced is difficult. Furniture with 8 way hand tied springs, soft down-feather or dacron covered soft foam- is difficult to find. Much of the wood furniture is uncomfortable- dining tables too high, chairs too low and very straight. They will make a beautiful piece of furniture and there will be a huge knot hole right in front. There favorite wood finish is Johnsons wax or a shellac, shiny finish. It is improving and things beginning to be made that are good design and comfortable. Decorator type Lamps are also difficult to find. We end up having them made here. Part of this is the fun ofdiscovery and invention.

Ed and Fran

Feb 2, 2005, 9:33 AM

Post #23 of 29 (2114 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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"I am sure in large cities - like- Monterray, Mexico City and Guadalajara- almost anything is available. In Sma and surrounding cities - finding comfortable upholstered furniture that is reasonably priced is difficult. "

You should try finding anything decent out here in the lesser provinces! We knew what we were getting into, and we're glad we brought virtually everything.

E&F

NEOhio

Feb 2, 2005, 9:43 AM

Post #24 of 29 (2108 views)

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Re: [Cynthia7] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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I believed, before our trip at Thanksgiving, that we would have to take our stuff down for a certain level of comfort. Not necessary - a few day trips into Guadalajara and I realized its all there, somewhere and like you say the adventure will be in the finding. So we won't bring anything except the kitchen stuff, tools and personal items. The mvoing quotes from Ohio were between $11 and $15K for the household and tools - not gonna happen.

When we returned I cancelled a couch order with Ethan Allen - priorities changed - not necessary for the short time we have left NoB. Upon cancelling the manager at EA told me that they have a store in Mexico City and that if I changed my mind I could order anything from the website for delivery to that store. She could design a whole house full if I wanted - choose the fabric here. No delivery to outlying areas. Good to know for a back up if you have to have it look like what you left behind.

Also, our local Costco is getting a lot more furniture, so I emailed corporate to ask if I ordered from their website could it go to the Guad store, they said not now, but in late 2006 the website items are expected to be available to be shipped into Mexico store locations. Again, you have to go get it. They pointed out that I could order from my local Costco for delivery to a Texas Costco and pick it up. Of course, then I pay the import tax, but it can be done.

But I am looking forward to the hunt.

Carol Schmidt

Feb 2, 2005, 1:39 PM

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Re: [elgringomudo] What's the Worst Advice (and Best)You Ever Received? (about Mexico, that is)

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As I posted, >Finding comfortable furniture here took six months.>
But we did find it, a wonderful goose-down-filled living room set at Liverpool department store in Queretaro.

Even the stuff at various Sears stores was hard as a rock, and the teal leather sofa we left behind would have cost us $2,500 US anyplace we found comfortable leather sofas. Our whole set was far less than that at Liverpool, not known for its cheap prices.

And a friend found a fairly comfortable living room set at Casa Diana in COmonfort for around $800 US!

So I know it can be found, it just took us six months to find a comfy set we liked, all the while remembering our wonderful leather sofa back in Arizona.

Carol Schmidt

alex .

Feb 2, 2005, 2:25 PM

Post #26 of 29 (481 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] no pasa nada

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"No pasa nada" is the worst recurring advice that I receive.
No hurry to pay the light bill on time, no pasa nada.
No need to stop at the stop sign, no pasa nada.
Don't be concerned with drinking in public, no pasa nada.
Why buy Mexican auto insurance?, no pasa nada.
Well, yea, she's already engaged to be married,but no pasa nada.
Alex

alex .

Feb 2, 2005, 2:29 PM

Post #27 of 29 (480 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] most useless advice

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"Make sure that you register with the consulate so that if you die in Mexico they know what to do with the body."
I registered, it took awhile for them to locate the form, was told that of the approximately 40,000 gringos in Baja California that I was the only one to register.
Alex

julietl

Feb 2, 2005, 3:39 PM

Post #28 of 29 (466 views)

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Re: [alex .] no pasa nada

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Alex -

Totally! That made me laugh. The answer to everything: "no pasa nada".
___________________________________________________________
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elgringomudo

Feb 4, 2005, 1:07 AM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] What's the Worst/Best Mexican Guidebook?

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As I posted, >Finding comfortable furniture here took six months.>
But we did find it, a wonderful goose-down-filled living room set at Liverpool department store in Queretaro.
Carol Schmidt

OK, after reading yours and the other replies I'm starting to understand a little better. Things are so much easier when you've got a relative in da bidness, ya know?

Thanks for the tip about the cookie sheets. Generally, I've found that's it's the simplest & most practical gifts that get used & appreciated the most, the stainless steel teakettles I dragged down with me showed lots of wear & tear last time I saw them. That reminds me, I need to get replacement gaskets for some pressure cookers...

As far as bad advice about Mexico, the original topic of this thread, I never got much because I never asked for much advice. I just wandered in and muddled through it. About the only bad advice I ever got was from Mexican in-laws who, being concerned for my welfare and deathly afraid of being responsible for my demise, sent me to the Buenavista market to shop for recuerdos. Buenavista, unless you have big pockets, just sucks. Its raison d'etre is as a place that tour-bus operators can send their clients where they won't wander off & get lost.

I don't get much use out of guidebooks, but the most useful I have found (although I don't use it much) is the Lonely Planet book, while it misses obvious places like San Juan de Los Lagos, and gives a short shrift to places like Leon, it does have maps of downtown Mexico City, and a decent accounting of buses from Mexico City bus terminals.
Since it's mostly directed to the backpacker crowd with little money, some reasonably priced hotels are listed and some city bus directions are given.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics Chicago,IL USA
Fighting bad sound and electronic ignorance since
1985 (sorry, folks, it's taking a little longer than I thought)