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La Isla


Nov 16, 2012, 10:08 AM

Post #26 of 443 (25077 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Let's hope for you that it stays the same and you don't have to produce all the other information.


That's why I'll be visiting that same lawyer for advice before visiting INM next spring. Crossing my fingers and taking a lot of deep breaths should help a lot too!


sparks


Nov 16, 2012, 11:21 AM

Post #27 of 443 (25063 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Cuernavaca story
-------------------------

Dear community,
just to share my latest experience to you. I went to the inmigration office today to extend my FM2 which is to be expired and learnt that I have to start again with the whole process of temporal resident (4 years) and after this time I will be able to get back my permanent residency. Nonsence?! Does anybody have a similar experience and know how to get the original permanent status without this stupid process again? I appreciate your suggestions. Stefanie

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


morgaine7


Nov 20, 2012, 1:59 PM

Post #28 of 443 (24845 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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From La Paz, BCS, Nov. 20:

A friend and I just returned from the INM office in La Paz. She was at the end of her 2nd refrendo of FM2 Inmigrante. Her application for Residente Temporal was accepted without financial documentation, and she was told she can apply for Residente Permanente next time, when she has completed four years. In other words, her years on FM2/Inmigrante "count".

I've already done my 4th refrendo as FM2/Inmigrante and have to wait until a month before expiration to apply for Residente Permanente, even though I already have four years. My years on FM2/Inmigrante "count", but because I'm under the old rules, I need five years instead of four.

Kate


Axixic


Nov 20, 2012, 2:58 PM

Post #29 of 443 (24822 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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I started a new topic, an INM meeting in SMA today, that said the same thing. It looks like that will be done throughout the country with FM2s and FM3s.


roni_smith


Nov 20, 2012, 5:13 PM

Post #30 of 443 (24781 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Were you at the meeting?
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



YucaLandia


Nov 21, 2012, 9:17 AM

Post #31 of 443 (24648 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Similar news here in our Merida INM office.

The following 10 items pretty much covers the general stuff for many typical expats, who currently have an FM2 or FM3...

I talked with an INM supervisor and an experienced agent for an hour yesterday at our Merida office, and confirmed the following things for how Merida INM is handling residency applications.
1. They confirmed that all current FM2 and FM3 permit holders get full credit for time they have completed on their current permit. 2. If you want a Residente Permanente card, FM2 and FM3 years count towards the 4 years of Residente Temporal requirement.
3. FM2 and FM3 holders are asked to submit a cover letter describing that you want a “renovacion” of your current permit, changing to either Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente.
4. FM2 holders with Familiar/spouse status are eligible to apply for Residente Permanente after completing 2 years on their FM2.
5. The income requirements for proving fiscal independence are cut in half (1/2) for both home-owning Residente Permanente and Residente Temporal applicants who already have valid Inmigrante Rentista or No Inmigrante Rentista permits. This same condition is being reported from Yucalandia readers across Mexico.
6. They are generally not requiring bank statements from people who already have their FM2 Rentista or FM3 Rentista. They do however, reserve the right to ask for proof of sufficient income.
7. New applicants for Residente Permanente or Temporal (who have no current FM2 or FM3) are required to show proof of sufficient income.
8. If you have a “Lucrativo” category of prior INM permit, then you likely have to show bank statements. e.g. Permisos para realizar actividades remuneradas , have different requirements than Rentistas or Jubilados.
9. When you enter your information into the INM website, prior to going to your local office: One block of information is actually a Formato Basico, so most people do not have to fill out a Formato Basico at the INM office.
10. Bring the standard stuff on your first visit to the INM office: Letter, copies of key passport pages, passport, current INM card, but NO bank statements. They will ask for these later if they decide they want them.

11. When asked how long the approval process takes, the gritted their teeth:
~ As little as 3 days for the most routine renovaciones.
~ As much as a month for other applications.
~ Long undetermined times for some very difficult or complex applications.

Our full article with all the details on the New Immigration Rules for Mexico is at:
New Rules and Procedures for Immigration, Visiting, and Staying in Mexico – Nov. 11, 2012
So, the good news is that all the hand-wringing, drama, and highly emotional stuff bashing around the internet (re the INM rule changes) has fortunately been generally disproven by the facts, and at least by our reality in Merida.

I hope the future updates and information from across Mexico is similarly positive.

The facts (and our Merida office's requirements) clearly make it easier to become a permanent resident, they lower the costs of applications (by allowing up to 4 years paid up front vs. the previous annual trips to INM) for Temporary Residents, they have streamlined the procedures (less documentation), and they net reduced the income requirements by 30% (since our office had not allowed the 1/2 off for owning a home), plus expat residents with Mexican spouses qualify for Residente Permanente in just 2 years.

Plus, it's fun to visit with our very helpful and friendly INM personnel.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Nov 21, 2012, 9:56 AM)


La Isla


Nov 21, 2012, 9:54 AM

Post #32 of 443 (24635 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Re Yucanlandia's long post:

8. If you have a “Lucrativo” category of prior INM permit, then you likely have to show bank statements. e.g. Permisos para realizar actividades remuneradas , have different requirements than Rentistas or Jubilados.

This is confusing. I've never had to show bank statements to renew my FM3 or No Inmigrante visa, but I did have to show proof that I paid taxes the month previous to asking for the prórroga. Permiso para realizar actividades remuneradas is not a bank statement. It sounds like the INM powers-that-be still haven't figured out how to deal with those of us with lucrativa visas. What are these different requirements?


morgaine7


Nov 21, 2012, 9:58 AM

Post #33 of 443 (24632 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Quote
I've already done my 4th refrendo as FM2/Inmigrante and have to wait until a month before expiration to apply for Residente Permanente, even though I already have four years. My years on FM2/Inmigrante "count", but because I'm under the old rules, I need five years instead of four.

Too late to edit, but based on a PM I got, I worded this badly in the interest of being brief. The reason I have to complete the five years of Inmigrante before applying for Permanente is that I don't switch over to the new system until my current card is due to expire next fall. If it were expiring now, I could apply now. Sorry for any confusion.

Kate


YucaLandia


Nov 21, 2012, 10:02 AM

Post #34 of 443 (24629 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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La Isla,
I asked your specific question of them yesterday, to help another very-confused gringo who is in some Lucrativo, Cargo de .... (???) classification, and the supervisor and agent replied that they could not discuss it, and that they would tell him his requirements at his 2'nd visit (cita) to their office.

Wish I had a more detailed final answer for you,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


La Isla


Nov 21, 2012, 10:17 AM

Post #35 of 443 (24622 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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In Reply To
La Isla,
I asked your specific question of them yesterday, to help another very-confused gringo who is in some Lucrativo, Cargo de .... (???) classification, and the supervisor and agent replied that they could not discuss it, and that they would tell him his requirements at his 2'nd visit (cita) to their office.

Wish I had a more detailed final answer for you,
steve[/reply-confused

Thanks for trying! It sounds like what I said in my previous post, that they haven´t figured out yet what to do with people like me and the very-confused gringo. There is almost no mention of us in all the pages and pages of new rules and regs. It strikes me that they were written with an eye on dealing with expat retirees with little thought given to those who came here to work.

Another thought: I imagine there are lots more working expats in Mexico City than in many other parts of the country, so that could mean that very soon the DF INM office will have to figure out how to deal with us in a systematic manner, or there could be riots all along Ejército Nacional!


(This post was edited by La Isla on Nov 21, 2012, 10:25 AM)


Axixic


Nov 21, 2012, 12:20 PM

Post #36 of 443 (24589 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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What is a Jubilados?


Rolly


Nov 21, 2012, 12:22 PM

Post #37 of 443 (24585 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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a retired person

Rolly Pirate


sparks


Nov 21, 2012, 12:22 PM

Post #38 of 443 (24584 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Retired person

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


Axixic


Nov 21, 2012, 12:23 PM

Post #39 of 443 (24582 views)

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Re: [sparks] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Isn't that what a rentista is?


wiloran

Nov 21, 2012, 12:25 PM

Post #40 of 443 (24579 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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I'm confused about number 7.

7. New applicants for Residente Permanente or Temporal (who have no current FM2 or FM3) are required to show proof of sufficient income.

I thought that new applications are no longer being processed in Mexico. Soulpatch would be a good example of someone who was told that under the new law his application had to be submitted in his country of origin.

Are they saying that even though he was required to show sufficient income at the Mexican consulate in the US, he will have to submit the records again in Mexico?


homey

Nov 21, 2012, 1:00 PM

Post #41 of 443 (24567 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Not sure if this will help or answer questions but I have 2 foreign business-owning friends here in the Chapala area both on what was formerly known as FM2. As business owners they would be lucrativas. 1st friend was ending 1st year of FM2 with an expiration date before the changes. That person received a renewal of the FM2 under the old rules. The usual documents were required re passport, pictures, business license, proof of hacienda taxes paid. The 2nd business owner has an FM2 third renewal expiring in Dec 2012. That person is being told they will be converted to Residente Temporal for 1-4 years but should probably just do the 1 year and see what happens next year. This is, at the moment, the current advise given by their lawyer. The required documents are the same for this renewal. To my knowledge neither person has been asked to present proof that they are earning the new monitary requirements or prove that they have the required money in investments but they are currently in renewals not at the end of a renewal or attempting the change to Residente Permanente. It would be helpful to hear from business people who are at the end of their renewals and must now reapply for Residente Temporal or apply for Residente Permanente. Even if it is from a friend of that person and thus 2nd hand knowledge it might still give some insight or answers to those who will find themselves in the same situation in 2013.


nob2sob

Nov 21, 2012, 1:16 PM

Post #42 of 443 (24559 views)

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Re: Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Just returned from the Immigration office in Oaxaca. I currently have 2 years on my FM2 and this would of been year three....I applied for Residente Permanente and I needed the following:
1. I had to submit a cover letter stating that I wanted to apply for Residente Permante.
2. Current FM2 card
3. Photos
4. 6 months of statements showing a monthly income of $2,600 USD.
5. $1000 to start the process with the remainder due in 7-10 days.
6. A copy of every page of my US passport.

My fingers are crossed and I will update any changes.


Axixic


Nov 21, 2012, 1:25 PM

Post #43 of 443 (24550 views)

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Re: [nob2sob] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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So they didn't wave the proof of income like others have reported from other offices when changing to a permanente after 2 years on an FM2/3?


sparks


Nov 21, 2012, 2:09 PM

Post #44 of 443 (24533 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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In Reply To
Isn't that what a rentista is?


jubilado is not a government term ... it just means a retired person

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


sparks


Nov 21, 2012, 2:12 PM

Post #45 of 443 (24531 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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In Reply To
So they didn't wave the proof of income like others have reported from other offices when changing to a permanente after 2 years on an FM2/3?


If you can't wait for your 4 years to be over .... then you prove income like a new applicant. Wait for your 4 years and you "may" only have to prove you still have income

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


YucaLandia


Nov 21, 2012, 2:34 PM

Post #46 of 443 (24512 views)

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Re: [wiloran] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Since your local INM office creates an ongoing paper file of your applications, and because they are responsible for correctly collecting and evaluating all your information, then the responsible parties at INM need current copies of your financial records to prove your fiscal independence. Since local INM offices can also include some of their own varied requirements, they may ask for different or additional information than the Consulates. Finally, the Consulates are a division of SRE, while INM is part of SEGOB - different agencies. Like so many things in Mexico, when first viewed through Canadian lenses or US lenses, it does not make sense, but if you know the roots and reasons, then you realize that things are not as arbitrary or capricious as many gringos imagine.

e.g. The changes made for FM2 and FM3 Rentista (see rentier in English - one who lives on investments) permit holders is broadly making things net easier and cheaper for us, even though the initial slightly panic-ey reactions by some expats was to imagine that the Mexican Gob. was trying to abuse or chase out expats. Life in Mexico often requires patience.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


viktoremski


Nov 21, 2012, 2:37 PM

Post #47 of 443 (24509 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Hi Steve,
These are all wonderful news, and I appreciate so much your work to get us all informed.
I just did 2nd Refrendo of my Inmigrante visa under the old rules, at the beginning of November. I have 7 years altogether, including 5 years on FM3. I wonder how soon I can try to apply for "renovacion" to the Permanente status. Do I need to wait till my current Refrendo is almost expired in fall of 2013, or can I try earlier, for exemple right after the New Year? I wonder what you think... Thank you, Vic


Ric Hoffman


Nov 21, 2012, 2:49 PM

Post #48 of 443 (24504 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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In Reply To
Isn't that what a rentista is?


person of independent means or a person who lives off the income from investments (or real estate etc)


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Nov 21, 2012, 2:51 PM)


YucaLandia


Nov 21, 2012, 3:10 PM

Post #49 of 443 (24489 views)

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Re: [viktoremski] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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Viktor,
Long time no hear from you.

Expats who want a renovación of their current INM Tarjeta de Residencia must wait until at least 30 days before their current card expires. This means you must wait until next October to renew your current permit. Since you completed 2 years on your FM2, by next October you will have completed 3 years. That means you would have only 1 year of a Residente Temporal to complete to qualify for a Residente Permanente. If for travel reasons (being out of the country during the renewal period), you decided to try to get a Residente Temporal card now, and pay for 4 years, you would have to abandon your current FM2, which would likely make you start over on the 4 year clock of Temporary Residence to qualify for Residente Permanente.

Glad we could help,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


Axixic


Nov 21, 2012, 3:10 PM

Post #50 of 443 (24490 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Recent experiences in INM and Consulate office

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What about Rentista no Lucrativas? Do they need to show income at renewal?

I imagine there has been such an uproar at INM over the new rules that DF is relaxing the rules such as giving back the half of income requirement for property ownership and giving renewals with no financials.

When the new administration is in place I expect to see the financial rules to be rewritten. These are administrative rules, the rules of and written by an agency in the executive branch so they don't go through the legislative branch. They are not hard to change.
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