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MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 23, 2002, 4:18 PM

Post #51 of 120 (26941 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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Here is the rediculousness of your posts. On one hand you claim you've been discriminated against and then you have the nerve to minimalize the same discrimination which has been cast at minorities for years!

How does it feel, Scott? How about a whole LIFETIME of it? How about living in a country where you were born, where they ram "justice for all" down your throat and you can't run away from it while you are growing up. Do you suppose you'd have a little animosity towards the people that cast this behavior your way? At least you can go home and get away from it. You know this. Many of us are born into it and no matter WHERE we go, it follows us.

It sickens me when a person that clearly has advantages minimalizes the experiences of others and then plays the pity role when it happens to them. In all honestly, I don't wish that you go through the experiences you do in Mexico, because it's what I fight against. But when you minimalize the same behavior, and claim it doesn't happen in Canada...which is a load of crap from what my Canadian friends have told me...then you provide consent to the behavior.

The Indio man that turns a cold shoulder to you is equally as offensive. i would not do that to you, in spite of my feelings about how many people in the U.S. and Canada have done it to me. The reason? Because I don't like to emulate bad behavior. Still, that does not mean that I will allow others to define my role in life for me or dish out my future. If this pisses off others, then great, I've done my job. Because to lay around and whine about something and not do anything to correct it, like take back your right to be treated with dignity and respect is to condone the negativity.

I'm not clear by your posts whether you are in Canada or Mexico. But if you are in Mexico, I hope you will open your mind and learn from the disrespectful ways of the people that treat you poorly and vow to never treat another the same...and that includes minimalizing their pain or trying to be the authority on what they should feel or do in their life, because you deserve equality just as we do...nothing more, nothing less. THAT is what Latino Pride teaches me!


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 23, 2002, 4:32 PM

Post #52 of 120 (26933 views)

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Re: [keith] hey, Scott and Marisol

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Keith,

You are absolutely correct! Everyone has all of those qualities inside of them and those that deny it are hiding their pain. Speaking with people like Scott helps me learn why people act as they do and why I react as I do. But when you sit back and think about the fact that he has very little exposure to other races, it explains it.

I'm hoping that his stay in Mexico provides him with a new learning experience, although I hope it isn't too rough on him. I don't like it when White people go through this in Mexico, anymore than I like the same stuff in the U.S. cast at Mexicans. I would hope that his experiences are for the most part positive ones...but that he takes away from the negativity the reasons why he should change his views.

THIS is why I love the fact that the world is becoming more multi-cultural. When people have the opportunity to learn about each other, they grow change and develop. I learned this by living in Jamaica, where I was not allowed in a theater in downtown Kingston. The experience wasn't knew to me, but being called a "Duppy Woman" or Ghost woman was...smile

...oh, Raider told me in a PM that I don't smile enough and that I must be miserable and I guess he perceived me as bitter and hateful...smile, smile...LOL...so forgive me for the sickening expressive emotions.

Okay, now I can just be me again...and if people feel I'm embittered then they can develop more of a storyline to go with that and publish a novel on my poor little life...he he.

Marisol la puta con muchas sonrisas

Marisol


Georgia


Nov 23, 2002, 4:36 PM

Post #53 of 120 (26927 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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One small thing, Scott. From your account with brusque Mexicans who brush you off: I hope you didn't really walk up to them and just straight out ask about the paper. Did you? First, you do need to greet the shopkeeper, ask how he is, etc. approach the matter indirectly. Pass the time of day a bit first. Mexicans find the Canadian and American straightforwardness very rude. How, you may ask, have I learned this? The hard way.


CanMex

Nov 23, 2002, 8:36 PM

Post #54 of 120 (26915 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] Read Again the Post

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I believe you have the wrong outlook, on who should tell what to who. There are cases where a Mexican National maybe be in a better position to tell about Mexico, but in other circumstances an American or Canadian may be in a better position to tell another American and/or Canadian about Mexico.

The point being, that an American or Canadian wants information that would apply to him, from his perspective, there are better chances that an American or Canadian would know what is important to him, and is also in a better situation to see the differences. (as a matter of fact a Mexican who has never been out of Mexico, would not have anything to compare. What is natural to him, may not be to the foreigner)

Another point is that the opinion of a Mexican who lives in an Ejido vs one who lives on the Frontera, or in a tourist area like Acapulco, would be so different, that you would believe that all three are from different countries.

About legalization of Marijuana, it sounds like you have not studied or thought out the idea at all. Prohibition of alcohol was brought about by well intentioned people who thought, it would settle the problem of consumption. Only to realize that it did not stop consumption, and created organized crime with which we are still stuck with today. They then moved to drugs, prostitution, gambling etc..

Talking about prostitution, it is legalized in Nevada and they have less problems than a lot of other states where it is illegal.

Firstly, if Marijuana was legalized, you may or may not have more users than you do now. You probably would have less people on worst drugs, if Marijuana is legal and cheaper than other drugs. (Cheaper drugs less crime, no need for breaking and entering or mugging etc.)

Secondly, you would eliminate Pushers of Marijuana and would be taking the distribution out of the hands of criminals who are getting rich on it. By taking pushers away, less pressure on young kids to consume.

Thirdly, if they put a tax on it this could create revenue for fighting drugs and helping drug addicts.

I must say that I agree with most of what you say. I find it hypocritical of the American government to act the way they do. They know they cannot do without the Mexican cheap labor to keep their economy going, the big spending on stopping border crossings is just a big political show, to keep some of the southern states quiet and believing that the government is doing something, instead of trying to explain that the US really needs that cheap labor to keep cheap food on the table and maids and babysitters for those same politicians and rich people.

The US has done away with slavery or have they?

4 years ago my girl friend a Mexican National, tried to get her papers so she could travel to Canada with me in my Motorhome for 6 months. Guess what she did not get her papers, so I had to fly her up while I was driving the Motorhome back. Once in Canada I went to the US Consulate to try and get her papers once more, just to be told, since the Consulate in Matamoros had refused, they could not do anything unless we got married then it would be a Canadian matter.

We could not get married, because she already was, but her husband left her 9 years ago to go to work in Florida and took up with another and just abandoned her with her 4 kids. So when she came back she applied for a divorce, the first lawyer dragged things for one year and then just abandoned the case, the second lawyer pretty much the same, third lawyer got everything done except the one last appearance in court so she went and see the judge and he told her it was past 6 months since the opening of the file, so she will have to get another file opened and have the articles in the newspapers republished and wait 70 days and appear in court and if her husband has not objected, he will grant the divorce. But then there is one year waiting period before we can get married.


scott

Nov 23, 2002, 9:06 PM

Post #55 of 120 (26905 views)

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Re: [Georgia] You are American

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As a matter of fact, I did just walk up to him and ask him for the paper. Thanks for the warning, I never really thought of it like that.


scott

Nov 23, 2002, 11:14 PM

Post #56 of 120 (26905 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] You are American

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I said the police gave me the third degree, three days ago, in Morelia. Morelia is the state capital of Michoacan. That would imply I am still in Mexico.

Just like any other anti-racism person, the first thing you do is attack me based on the grounds that I am sheltered, unintelligent, and do not know anything about the world, etc, etc. You are just as guilty of making assumptions to further your argument, as anyone else is.

. But when you sit back and think about the fact that he has very little exposure to other races, it explains it.

There is one of your assumptions. Canada is very multicultural. I'm sure there are problems. I read today, intentionally looking for random info to further my argument, that 38% of Torontonians are foreign born. In my city, London, 20% of the population is foreign born. That does not even include the visible minorities born within the country. Of my best friends in high school, one was half lebanese / half romanian, the other two in our core little group were
of east indian descent. But they were totally assimilated into Canadian culture. Only the half lebanese friend clinged to his culture, to any degree. Why? Because the coolest badass group of kids in the school were of arab descent, and it served him well.

One thing I was trying to get at, is that I think its totally stupid that there is a part of Memphis Tenessee, that is completely black. I didn't mean Canada was perfect, but you will not find that at home. We should all assimilate, and live happily ever after in our new cultures. Don't cling to your latina roots, whats the point. If you think Mexican culture is so great, then go live in Mexico. If you are in the United States, assimilate.

Now that I've pointed out that some of my closest friends were of different descent than myself, and that many different people live in Canada, I will tell you about my experience in Mexico.

I came for 5 weeks, October of last year. I liked it so much, that I went home, saved up all the money I could, and returned. To put it as Jennifer Rose might, "I have worn out my first tourist card". So I have been here a little while, and like to think I know a little bit about Mexican culture. I live in an Infonavit, with two old Mexican ladies. I like it. Plus, I'm cheap as hell and need to make my money go as far as possible. So I live in the projects in Morelia, Michoacan, with two old Mexican ladies. But, I have Internet by cable, my computer, and thats pretty much all need to be happy. I don't care about all the stupid stuff at home, thats why I came to get away from it. I enjoy paying $800 pesos a month rent. It allows me to live a completely relaxed and stress free life, like many Mexicans do.

In my daily life, I am totally and completely immersed in Mexican life. I'm sorry if my friends typically happen to be middle class Mexicans, who live completely normal lives, not particularly different from those at home. But it just so happens, that it is very rare for poor native indians to approach me for no apparent reason, just to chit chat. It seems to be the middle class school girls who seem most likely to do this, and hence, those are who my friends are. I admit I don't have a clue what life is like in tiny Mexican villages. I have been to them of course, but never spent much time there.

So now that I have hopefully proven your blind assumption wrong, that I have no exposure to other cultures, let me state that I have zero problems with Mexican culture. My problem is with immigrants who go to a new country, and sit around blaming their lives on the (white) majority. My problem is with people who refuse to assimilate. If Mexican culture means so much to you, go live in Mexico. But you are American. So live an American life. Or go find a new country. You know, thats not even the point. I feel you should be able to live however you want to. Believe whatever you want to. What drives me crazy is people who blame everything on the white majority.

It sickens me when a person that clearly has advantages...

What are my advantages? Please, I'd like to know.... The fact that I am white. Oh I see, thats why I have so many advantages in life. What about the dirt poor white person, who grew up in a trailer park with an abusive alcoholic father? Are you saying that kid has advantages too just because he is white? Because you know nothing about my life, you're just assuming that because I am white my life must be peachy keen without problems. White people don't have problems, they have so many advantages, etc etc. Give me a break, everyone in the world has problems.

One thing I was hoping to illustrate with my little anecdotal stories is this. If I was a visible minority, and it was the cops pulling me over in the USA for no apparent reason, I could cry bloody murder and accuse the whole police department of being racist. And I'd get away with it. The same thing happens in Mexico, and whenever I get ripped off two or three pesos, or a price magically changes when I go back and get a different clerk (like the store owner instead), I swear its because I'm white. I huff and puff, and get all mad. But you know what, sometimes I secretly send in a Mexican friend just to see what price they get quoted, and you know what, sometimes I really was given the correct price. Of course my first reaction is to blame in on them thinking I'm a rich gringo with lots of cash to spend, but maybe the first clerk was just giving me a discount. Its very easy to blame your skin color for anything that goes wrong. If you didn't get that promotion, your immediate reaction is that its because you are brown. You are more qualified than that white guy, you know that. It must be your skin color that didn't get you promoted in that company. But perhaps, there really is another explanation. Maybe they didn't hire you because they too could tell that you were obsessed with your Latina culture, and that could bias your business decisions. Who knows, but please, I know its easy as hell to blame everything on your skin color, but the fact is, when push comes to shove, if you really are that star employee who outsold every other salesperson in your division, then you will get promoted. I just can't grasp that they would look at you at say "I'm sorry, even though you are our best employee, and make us the most money, and are just perfect in every way, we can't promote you because our corporate policy is not to promote Mexican descents past xxx level". I don't buy it. But please, feel free to convince me. I do have an open mind. But that does not mean I buy whatever the TV and politically correct establishment try to feed me. I will listen, as you listen to me. Georgia's story about her daughter, it is sad. But I just don't believe white people are the cause of every immigrants problem.


scott

Nov 24, 2002, 12:26 AM

Post #57 of 120 (26904 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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One question. If you have family that is from Mexico, why do you refer to yourself as a "Gringo?" I've never met any Latinos that did that. Is your family through marriage possibly?

As you can see, comments of yours such as this, are what really irked me. If a fair skinned person of partial or half hispanic descent wants to consider themself gringo, because they grew up in America and know nothing else, then so be it. Don't just blindy say that anyone of some degree of hispanic descent, can't just assume themselves as 100% American.

As a Latina, I feel that Marijuana is a tool that is used by many governments for social genocide. It is distributed to keep economically challenged areas depressed and basically complacent with inequities.

That's complete BS. Am I alone here? Please, someone tell me I'm not the only person that sees this as a so called latina blaming the presumably white government for her peoples problems? Give me a break. Yeah I'm so sure that a guy growing marijuana in his backyard, or closet, or where ever, is doing it because the American government has a secret agenda of oppressing poor latinos. The US government probably buys the seeds and secretely distributes them to all the other white people in on this little conspiracy. Thats just makes no sense what so ever, its completely stupid. Do you honestly believe the US government does this? And yes, I know you didn't specifically say the US or that its a white conspiracy, but some things are implied. By government, you imply majority, by which you imply white. White people are opressing latinos, by having the government distribute marijuana to poor people. Can you explain this to me?

I’ve even read posts here referring to Latinos as a “violent” culture, with some pretty humorous reasoning behind it, and the person posting sent me a private message to “explain further” the reasons he felt we were more violent. What he didn’t assimilate, were the root causes behind some of the violence, such as many of the disparities in lifestyle, economic levels, housing, education, and such a myriad of OTHER reasons that it would paint a clearer picture and make his analogy look rather silly.

Obviously, rich fair skinned Mexicans stay put right here in Mexico. Why would they leave? Why would a rich, upper class Mexican who garners much respect here in Mexico, want to go live a work till you drop, average life in the USA? Would they be able to find a 10 peso an hour gata on the other side? No, they stay here. So, its the poor and desperate Mexicans, probably with next to zero hope in their lives, that head for the States. Obviously, they are very incredibly desperate if they are willing to risk their lives crossing the desert, or whatever other means they use. Guess what? This problem was created in Mexico. America did not create this problem of extreme poverty in Mexico. I know you're going to try and argue next that its America taking advantage of Mexico, thats why Mexicans are poor. So, we have poor and desperate Mexicans crossing the desert to get to the States. And what do they have when they get there? NOTHING. And now you're saying its disparities in education, housing, etc, that is why latinos are poor. Sure, but who created that problem? Is it Americas fault if desperate illegal aliens risk their lives and everything they have to get to the land of the free, and are poor when they get there? Of course, the kids are going to be poor, and so starts the cycle. America did not create that problem. Mexico did. Don't imply its Americas fault, that Latinos are poor.

i want to clarify one thing. most people involved in Atzlan and Brown Pride movements are not involved in this sort of lifestyle or even condone it. We promote pride.....

This is just to establish that you do in fact have a brown pride agenda. This is not at issue. What would happen if someone posted and said "We in the White Pride movement promote....."? You'd be the first to accuse them of not knowing anything about the world, of being ignorant, a bigot, and unintelligent.

We have both pursued education in the arts and try to use this media to help the young gang members who are deported after serving time and live in tijuana

So a minute ago you are denying latinos are violent. Oh and here you are talking about all the latino gangsters who get deported back to Mexico.

that was the problem with my husband, who lived in the u.s. illegally from the time he was fourteen

Oh gee, you're very own husband was an illegal immigrant. I'm sure it was the housing and education disparities of illegal immigrants in the United States that caused all his problems, right?

...and hence joined a gang...

Oh really? Latinos aren't violent? But whats this, your very own latino husband was a gangster too? Obviously these aren't just isolated incidents where latinos in the USA are violent.

Although they should remove YOUR posts for both the offensive nature of displaying how violent minority races are, and not even summing up the reasons for crime statistics, I'm sure they will delete mine again. Well, I'm a Latina, so I'm USED to having my opinions censored.

Here we go again. I bet Jennifer Rose, you know that Mexican citizen apparently jewish moderator, shes out to get you and censor all your Latina opinions.

my husband once was a gang member, who dealt in this, i can tell you that the amount of money involved merits that it is dangerous to even attempt to get involved in this. when my husband was arrested and sent to prison, he was dealing arms on both sides of the border and had over seven hundred thousand dollars in assets,

Oh gee, another juicy little nugget about your husband.

Given the events of the sniper that took over Washington DC, I'd say TJ is a WHOLE lot safer.

How many people die in a place like, oh lets say Ciudad Juarez, without anyone caring? A dozen or so people die in the USA and its world breaking news. Its all media trying to make money. I'm sure 0.000000001 percent of the population of Washington DC being shot by a snipper doesn't even begin to compare to the number of murders in Mexico. I still can't get over the fact that one day I saw in the news that 8 people were executed somewhere in Michoacan. And a couple days later I went to a 'conversation club', and no one there even knew about it. That says something, doesn't it? Oh yes, by the way, now I'm just out to attack anything you might have said......

I totally love Mexico, I am very happy with my life here, but this blaming America and the white majority for all your problems just doesn't sit well with me. Its been a long time since I've ranted to this degree, but seeing you consistently post pushing your brown pride agenda, really got to me. I'm sorry.... I think I've pretty much said all that was on my mind now...... Please, understand I'm just a person ranting online, I'm probably totally different IRL than you expect. Please, don't take it personally. Don't hate me. Well, at least don't hate me enough that you hook up with your husbands old gang members to silence me.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 7:10 AM

Post #58 of 120 (26881 views)

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Re: [CanMex] Read Again the Post

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Read the title of this forum..."Mexico's Internet Magazine"

And the subtitle is Mexico Connect. I've already alluded to the fact in previous posts that Americans may want information geared towards their needs. But honestly, when I entered this site, I was sincerely hoping it would be information that I could really use, not just American opinions on Mexico. While I like reading these opinions too, I was hoping to learn more about Mexico and I don't find that here.

Still, I think people come here for various reasons and I don't feel it should all be focused, if nothing else then by the title of the site, towards only American opinion. I'm quite sure there are others that would like fact vs. opinion as well.

As far as the Marijuana debate, it's obvious you haven't read a medical resport or psychological report on the effects of prolonged use, so I won't waste my time with you on this. It's also obvious you don't have any experience with the violence associated with distribution of it. Some people prefer to live in la la land rather than accept the facts and I don't waste time trying to sway these folks because they aren't worth the effort.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 7:42 AM

Post #59 of 120 (26881 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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By your own admission, you ARE sheltered! You admitted in previous posts that you have very little exposure to minorities, as a matter of fact you were "surprised to see so many Black folks in Tennessee at some gas station" and found it odd that they "lived in little enclaves" etc. My dear, for the year 2002, that is a very odd thing to write, to say the least! You also admitted you've just recently heard of Latinos and Chicanos which seems odd since you have internet access and live in Canada...a very well informed country. Then you deny the problems exist in Canada for the most part but say that the Arabs and Lebonese identify by their Arab and Lebonese roots. Do you have any concept of how naive that sounds?

One has to assume you've been very protected! My Regional Sales Manager lives in Ontario, my dear, and he is Lebonese and he sings a very different song than the one you do. I also have a Salvadorean girlfriend that moved to Canada that tells a different tale than yours. While they admit the degree of racism is slightly less than the U.S., they tell me it very well DOES exist.

Then you say, "just like any other anti-racism person." Can I presume from this statement that my "anti-racism views" bother you? I loved the implications that the reasons I didn't get the promotions in SOME company cultures was my views. Oddly enough, Scott, I don't demonstrate my views at work. As a matter of fact, you'll be pleased to know that the last three people I hired to work in my department were as follows: a wonderful White young man who has the best graphics arts portfolio I ever saw, and another White man, who had a proven track record as a market analyst that blew the other candidates out of the water. Why you ask? Did I have Latino applicants? Yes. But I chose the best qualified people for the position, not the race. I adore both of my employees and value them and would fight for their career objectives.

I was not chosen to rise in the two company cultures I refer to strictly because of race. The fact is, there were NO minorities in management at these two companies and since my performance generated 16 million dollars in sales revenue the first year I entered the company, it wasn't illogical that I would be the logical choice for the marketing director of that company. Instead, they hired a White guy....(they weren't big on women in management either, Scott, so I had two strikes against me).

Does this mean that ALL companies in the U.S. are like this? No! I wasn't silly enough to remain at a company like that and found the company I work for now. Guess what! There are not limitations with this company based on sex or race. I feel I can go as far as I drive myself.

You are still missing the idea. If it doesn't feel good when they do it to you, then don't do it to others. I believe in this wholeheartedly, which is why I try to treat ALL people with the same level of respect. My comments about you and to you were based on information you freely told us. The fact that you are shocked that Memphis Tennessee has a bunch of Black folks in one area is amusing to me. Why? Because I grew up in areas where there were only Latinos. As I said, when a society chooses to provide justice for some and not all, you tend to insolate yourself...it's rather normal behavior!

As far as how you would act with the police...that is hilarious. Let me ask you this...what if the police harrassed you once a week. Do you think anyone would take your calls complaining seriously? Guess what Scott~! In the REAL world they don't! Eventually you gain the reputation of being a complainer and they even hang up on you. I wish it were as simple as you make it. You are simply too naive.


What are my advantages? Please, I'd like to know.... Scott, in answer to that, you live in a town where you eek out a meager living and have a computer unlike the other people you live around who live cheaply. And one more, Scott....YOU CAN GO HOME AND IT WILL ALL BE OVER...THEY CAN'T!


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 8:07 AM

Post #60 of 120 (26880 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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Scott,

Education 101 on Latino culture. We don't refer to ourselves as Gringos...LOL Honestly, I don't even like the word because I feel it is racist. Many don't, but I do.

And Scott, a conspiracy is something done secretly. The drug distribution issues are done clearly in the open in many minority neighborhoods other than Latino neighborhoods. And YES my dear little naive one, it is done PRIMARILY in minority neighborhoods.

"Obviously, rich fair skinned Mexicans stay put right here in Mexico. Why would they leave? Why would a rich, upper class Mexican who garners much respect here in Mexico, want to go live a work till you drop, average life in the USA? Would they be able to find a 10 peso an hour gata on the other side? No, they stay here. So, its the poor and desperate Mexicans, probably with next to zero hope in their lives, that head for the States."

For the most part, I agree with you on this. I might add that the poor and disenchanted Europeans did much the same throughout history. America is a melting pot of the poor from other countries or the people who fear for their lives from wars. So I don't see the relevance. And you are right about the problems of the Mexican government creating the poverty and disparity within the country of Mexico....by the way, Scott, I do live here...and have for quite a few years...so please stop telling me to move to Mexico if I don't like it...I DID.

"What would happen if someone posted and said "We in the White Pride movement promote....."? You'd be the first to accuse them of not knowing anything about the world, of being ignorant, a bigot, and unintelligent."

Wrong again, Scott. I have no issues with people involved in these movements as long as it's to promote pride in their life. What I DO disagree with in ANY movement, is the pride being used to denigrate others. That includes Latino movements.

As far as my husband, I freely admit his past affiliations with gang involvement, which is why I am so ADAMANTLY opposed to drug dealing and the violence it causes. THAT my dear, is what makes me an expert on the subject of why it should not be allowed...legally or illegally. Since he has been deported and can not re-enter the U.S. ever again, he is no threat to the U.S. and since he did his time and no longer is involved with gangs and helps others get out, he is no threat to Mexico either. As a matter of fact, he would probably be the best mentor for those that want to change their lives. How odd though, that you don't bring up the fact that he was 14 when he crossed and joined a gang to merely exist in a country that would have thrown him out. It's also odd that you don't bring up the fact that I have NEVER been involved in any such activities nor condone them, which was also in that post. Your selectivity provides quite an illustration. Also, my husband is not representative of MOST Latinos, so to deduct that we are all violent because MY husband was in a gang is somewhat rediculous. If you feel that way, then why do you live in Mexico? It would seem any logical person wouldn't want to live in a violent society.

In summation, Scott, I don't hate you. I actually respect your ranting and honesty, because I feel you are telling how you feel. I respect people that do this, because I think honesty allows for useful discourse and learning. I certainly don't have any gang members to whip out and hurt you, nor would I endorse such behavior. You may not believe me, but after reading your post, I like you more. Why? Because at least you have the balls to stand by your convictions, even if we disagree. Many walk through life wearing a mask and do not have the nerve to be honest. Those are the people I feel threatened by, not the people that allow me to honestly respond to them. My hat is off to you! Even if I do feel you are very naive.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 8:15 AM

Post #61 of 120 (26877 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] You are American

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Excuse me Scott...USED TO live in Canada...that was not an intentional error.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 8:47 AM

Post #62 of 120 (26877 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] You are American

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I might add that both my husband and I were extremely sad about both the events of the sniper and the occurance of 9/11. I don't feel that violence is EVER a means to solve problems. What we teach young gang members trying to leave gangs is to have pride in culture, not violence to ruin other people's lives. As I said before, we both have education in the Arts and find that this is a wonderful way to influence pride. Mexico has so many wonderful arts and music and it tends to soothe the pain that these young men and women have in their souls. Many of them haven't been exposed to positive influences such as this. They've spent their lives in fear...fear of being forced to do things their families did not even endorse, simply to exist.

The beauty of Latino pride allows these young folks to drastically change their perspective and their views of their own lives and identity. Instead of feeling like a minority in the world, they begin to blossom into poets, painters, and even trades. We are proud of one young man in particular, who came to us with a heroine habit and a rather disgusting disrespect for women. He lived with us for a year and got off the drugs. I actually had to get into fist fights with him to defend myself, because he refused to do anything around the house he considered "women's work." Now, he owns an auto body repair shop and is happily married. He is probably one of the best husbands I've seen and dotes on his wife and values her as a woman.

We had a young girl that was White that had been in Latino gangs. When she came to us, she had a drug problem, had been diagnosed with HIV and was two months pregnant. She had been working in a topless bar downtown in TJ. She grew up in Los Angeles and got involved with the wrong crowd. She wouldn't go home. We took her to counseling and got medical treatment for her and I'm happy to say she eventually decided to go back home and try to have a normal life. Through my husband's experiences, she saw how bad it could get.

We've also had failures, which is tough. Presently, we are burnt out and have no children, so we donate funds to an orphanage to help children who's families may or may not have the funds to raise them. Scott, this is what Latino pride is about. If you would only read about it, you might not have these radical ideas of what we do.

Do I blame the racism and lack of tolerance in the U.S. and Mexico for these poor children's experiences? YES. If any of these children had experienced hope, they wouldn't have joined the gangs to begin with.

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a family that instilled pride. I never had any inclination to join a gang or commit crimes. I was driven towards education and I feel that God provided me with this option to help others. My husband did not have those options. He grew up in an abusive home. The idea of leaving that existance for the U.S. and then joining a gang so he could feel needed was a choice he made at a young age, like many gang members. Fortunately, he learned in prison that no gang needs you or cares about you. He paid for his poor choices dearly. We probably will never live in the U.S. again, because of his choices. Fortunately, we are quite happy in Mexico and if we ever choose to leave we could move to Europe or any number of countries.

Legalizing pot will not fix the problem. As long as you have people that have no hope, the drug use will continue. Legalizing the substance only takes the cash made from the distribution from one hand to another one. The problem of drug abuse will not be fixed any more than legalizing alcohol during prohibition fixed alcoholism. Liquor is clearly legal, but the problems such as drunk driving and abuse and such a myriad of problems that are the direct result of abuse of that substance are clearly still there. To think that legalizing pot will magically make all the problems go away is too simple.


scott

Nov 24, 2002, 11:10 AM

Post #63 of 120 (26857 views)

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Well, I thought you were misleading people by your consistent pushing of your latina agenda. It upset me seeing your suppositions that imply white people are opressing poor latinos. Thats why I decided to share my opinions.

As far as marijuana, guess what, the Canadian Senate disagrees with you:

The [senate] committee concludes that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, and rejects the idea that smoking pot leads to harder drugs.

The senate committee released its report in September. Here is a short article:

http://cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002/09/04/pot_committee020904

So, Canadian senators, who presumably had a lot of time and money to use researching this issue, disagree with you. If you click the 'Indepth' link on that page, you will see these quotes, also from a report from the Canadian senate:


* Marijuana is "not a gateway" to harder drug, such as cocaine and heroine

* Fewer than 10 per cent of users become addicted

* A lot of public money is spent on law enforcement, even though public policies don't seem to discourage use of drug



So, just because some poor and desperate latinos supposedly get mentally addicted to it, according to you, according to the senate they are less than 10%. And, its common knowledge that marijuana is not physically addictive. So maybe you should continue helping these latinos who have no control of themselves, but let those otherwise law abiding citizens, who can control themselves, do whatever they want. Why should it be illegal for them?

You know what, I don't even care. I don't even like marijuana, nor alcohol very much. I'm not religious about it, the odd time sure. But I sure the hell believe that just because poor latinos can't control themselves, that should not affect the rights of the majority.

You keep calling me naive, like you think I have all god damned day to sit around disputing all your stupid claims. Obviously you are wrong, and I do know something about the marijuana issue. Did you know this? Maybe you're the naive person. Sure your experiences in your latino barrio might tell you something, but thats just your experience. That is by no means the experience of the majority. And don't try and tell me now that I don't know anything about drugs or drug use. That is something I'm not inclined to talk about in a public forum, where I have already given so many personal details I could easily be tracked down.

What you say on the Internet is there FOREVER. Just go to Google and read all the old Usenet posts from the 80's.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 12:08 PM

Post #64 of 120 (26846 views)

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Scott,

The FDA and AMA disagree with a group of Canadian Senators, and honestly, my money would go on the wisdom and experience of physicians educated in the area rather than people that decide things based on lobby dollars. Again, please read the medical and psychological reports before you spurt out these silly references. I had to laugh at the saying that marijuana is not physically addictive. Really? How about MENTALLY addictive, because the THC numbs a part of the hypothalmus that causes the reaction of feeling "laid back" and leads to prolonged daily use, which causes these folks that smoke the stuff when they first wake up to say like cigarettes, "I can quit anytime," but don't. As a matter of fact, socialogical studies of prolonged daily users have statistics that prove that the quality of their decision making and judgement deteriorates and often their lifestyle does as well. Not in all cases, but the percentages are high. But then, if you are well adjusted and have a basically satisfying life, why would you need a substance to numb you anyway, eh?

My dear, you are grasping at straws now. I'm sorry you don't like the term naive...then how about innocent. Whatever it is, you are not informed about Latinos or about Latino pride or even much of anything else having to do with minorities. What is even more interesting is that with this lack of curiosity, you choose to move to Mexico...a Latino country. This indicates an obvious lack of interest, and sadly one can deduct from that with some of the other cute little references what they will. Your agenda and views are not exactly an enigma, my dear.

So I say do your time in Mexico and learn. Maybe if you have enough opportunity to live in Mexico you will begin to see how silly your views really are. But I have to say again, you always have the option to go home when the police harrass you or times get too tough. For you see, you are living in a foreign country with a culture that is foreign to you. And by the way, the police harrass my husband at times too here, and he is not a foreigner, nor white. However, I'm not saying they don't harrass you because you are white, because I would bet some do and some don't. The point is, it's unlikely they do so in Canada because you are white, but in the U.S. they CLEARLY do harrass people simply because they ARE a minority. They even have a term for it...racial profiling.

Some of us that grew up in the states did not have those options when we experienced those problems. The difference in being harrassed in a foreign country and being harrassed in YOUR OWN country is tremendous. The fact that you minimalize the experiences of people that have very little opportunity to change or even the tools to know how to change their lives proves you clearly have advantages, as do I for having grown up with a caring, loving and pride filled family. The children we help do not have that advantage so honestly I tend to have a great deal more respect for these kids that overcome these barriers than a spoiled and privileged person who has the funds and options to travel freely to another country for what ever reasons he chooses to. The difference between you and them, is once they have the knowledge, they choose to enhance their lives and do not wish to minimalize other people's plights. You on the other hand, are thes disadvantaged one in that you don't know any better because you've never been the minority. Clearly, if racism comes into play then that is YOUR disadvantage. However, you do follow the current politically correct way of speaking, by saying we are all equal and denying that racism exists. I think what really pisse you off about me, is that I'm not one of the poor people apologizing for existing that you would like to expect for my culture. I'm actually one of the normal Latinas that feels I'm just as good as anyone else and won't allow someone that has a clear lack of knowledge about my culture to instruct me on how I should perceive myself. My dear! Welcome to Mexico! You'll probably find the majority of us are like this if you open your eyes. It's probably a shock because in countries with more European majority cultures, you find the enclaves of minorities, some of which are still apologizing for existing due to the centuries of oppression they've experienced. Thank GOD times are a changing! Now we can and do have expectations of others and some of that involves that YOU modify YOUR behavior to suit us as much as we do for you.


scott

Nov 24, 2002, 12:18 PM

Post #65 of 120 (26855 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] You are American

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You admitted in previous posts that you have very little exposure to minorities, as a matter of fact you were "surprised to see so many Black folks in Tennessee at some gas station"

Canada is not perfect. But, it was my experience growing up, that I never saw an ethnic barrio. Seeing this in the USA was a shock to me. Yes, we've all seen poor black neighboorhoods on Law & Order, etc, but these black people were not poor. One image that sticks in my mind is that of a black girl driving by in a Miata convertible. It was wierd to think that middle class black people would isolate themselves from the rest of society. And I don't understand why.

Can I presume from this statement that my "anti-racism views" bother you?

Yes, they do. It used to bother me a lot in the past. Now, not so much so, but yes you hit a nerve. Always being told, "you clearly have advantages, you know, cause your white", can get to you after a while.

You also admitted you've just recently heard of Latinos and Chicanos which seems odd since you have internet access and live in Canada..

What do you know about native life in Moosonee or Red Lake Ontario? Red Lake is about as far north as the road goes in Ontario, and Moosonee is on the shore of James (Hudsons) Bay, accessible only by plane or train. You are very naive and uninformed if you can't tell me all about life there. You must be fairly unintelligent too, you know in this day and age with the internet and everything.

If you want, I'll share my experiences in either place. Latino life in the USA has zero relevance on life in Canada. Statscan says there are 118,000 latin americans in Canada. There are 31 million people total. So, that means latinos are 0.004 % of the Canadian population, and have next to zero influence on my life. Don't assume that just because they are a big part of your country, that the rest of the world should be experts too. Just like I don't expect you to be an expert on the huge french population of my country. You must be pretty naive if you can't tell me about life in, oh, Pohenegamook Quebec? Do you know about poor innocent Canadians being harrassed by the INS as well?

http://www.pressherald.com/news/state/021115hunter.shtml

This story is pretty sad. A poor white Canadian being sent to a US jail for more than a month, for buying gas. The driveway of the gas station is in Canada. Border Patrol arrested him, and he still faces 6 months for illegally entering the country. I am sharing this to show that the Border Patrol Agents are not nice, even to white Canadians. But, I'm sure you had no clue that this stuff goes on up north too. Border Patrol only harrasses poor latinos. Oh, that story is dated November 15th, 2002. I didn't search months of newspaper archives to come up with something to show you. Research it more, its quite interesting.

The point is that we see the world from different perspectives. I don't expect you to know about everything that happens on the Maine/Quebec border, just like you shouldn't expect me to know everything about the life of poor Mexicans crossing the southern border.

Scott, in answer to that, you live in a town where you eek out a meager living and have a computer unlike the other people you live around who live cheaply.

As a general rule, do you consider Mexicans hard workers? Do you think opening a variety store, the third on the same corner, and sitting there all day staring into space and watching tv is a hard life? If they really wanted to get ahead, they could buy a book and teach themselves english or something. I'm sorry, but I just don't feel, based on my experience here in Mexico, that Mexicans have it that rough. Its part of the laid back, relaxed culture and lifestyle, what many of us like here. But don't blame it on anyone else. I feel for many, its by choice. With exceptions, of course. Perhaps this thread could be moved to the new forum, instead of deleting it. I know out of everything I've said, this last thing will be the most likely candidate to get wiped out.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 12:30 PM

Post #66 of 120 (26845 views)

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By the way, what you say on the internet should not bother you, if you are arguing for a cause that has no shame behind it. I have not said anything that I would be ashamed of reading twenty years from now.

I don't know what in your life is making you so paranoid, but my heart goes out to you for that. I would not appreciate feeling that way and I don't wish it on you. If posting in this forum provides some form of fear in your life, then maybe I'll let you go and not respond, because as much as I like your ability to come back at me, I don't want you to have any harm from what you say here. Honestly, since this is a computer, I don't know what your lifestyle is but if you are concerned that my husband was once upon a time in a gang, please don't sweat it. He hates that life now and would NEVER do anything to hurt anyone now. He was on drugs back then, which is part of why his ability to make rational choices was inhibited among other things.

Honestly, he's the person that saves all the damned dogs and cats around here and drives me nuts trying to save the world. I think he feels some sense of guilt for what he did in the past. What was sad, is that when I first met him, he was more like a wounded animal in his feelings than any tough guy. The guy was 250 pounds, looked like a damned weightlifter, had tattoos on his face, neck and arms and broke down crying like a baby when he spoke about his mother. I think he is one of the most loving and sensitive men I've ever met, which is why I fell in love with him. He hated Christmas and all the holidays because he had never celebrated them. Now, HE's the one putting up the decorations. As a matter of fact, I have to run so he can put the Christmas lights up. I wish you no harm, Scott, truly from my heart! And in a way I feel as though you might even be a nice person if we weren't talking about something you and I feel so passionate about.

Gotta run...Christmas and Thanksgiving are awaiting in our household...so many things to buy and do.

Adios!


CanMex

Nov 24, 2002, 12:39 PM

Post #67 of 120 (26838 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] Read Again the Post

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You wrote: QUOTE "Read the title of this forum..."Mexico's Internet Magazine"

And the subtitle is Mexico Connect. I've already alluded to the fact in previous posts that Americans may want information geared towards their needs. But honestly, when I entered this site, I was sincerely hoping it would be information that I could really use, not just American opinions on Mexico. While I like reading these opinions too, I was hoping to learn more about Mexico and I don't find that here.

Still, I think people come here for various reasons and I don't feel it should all be focused, if nothing else then by the title of the site, towards only American opinion. I'm quite sure there are others that would like fact vs. opinion as well. UNQUOTE

I believe you should be reading my post again: QUOTE" There are cases where a Mexican National maybe be in a better position to tell about Mexico, but in other circumstances an American or Canadian may be in a better position to tell another American and/or Canadian about Mexico." UNQUOTE

You wrote QUOTE "As far as the Marijuana debate, it's obvious you haven't read a medical resport or psychological report on the effects of prolonged use, so I won't waste my time with you on this. It's also obvious you don't have any experience with the violence associated with distribution of it. Some people prefer to live in la la land rather than accept the facts and I don't waste time trying to sway these folks because they aren't worth the effort.UNQUOTE

I in no way have condoned the smoking of marijuana, nor have I stated anything about not being damageable to health. And I did address the violoence issue. Instead of waisting your time writing why you wont pay any attention to my post, you should be reading it in order to judge if maybe their isn't another way of thinking than yours althought you seem very intent at sticking with yours no matter what.

Again you should read my post: QUOTE "About legalization of Marijuana, it sounds like you have not studied or thought out the idea at all. Prohibition of alcohol was brought about by well intentioned people who thought, it would settle the problem of consumption. Only to realize that it did not stop consumption, and created organized crime with which we are still stuck with today. They then moved to drugs, prostitution, gambling etc..

Talking about prostitution, it is legalized in Nevada and they have less problems than a lot of other states where it is illegal.

Firstly, if Marijuana was legalized, you may or may not have more users than you do now. You probably would have less people on worst drugs, if Marijuana is legal and cheaper than other drugs. (Cheaper drugs less crime, no need for breaking and entering or mugging etc.)

Secondly, you would eliminate Pushers of Marijuana and would be taking the distribution out of the hands of criminals who are getting rich on it. By taking pushers away, less pressure on young kids to consume.

Thirdly, if they put a tax on it this could create revenue for fighting drugs and helping drug addicts."UNQUOTE

Also don't you think that abuse of tobaco and alcohol are not damageable to health. The advantage of alcohol being legal, is that it did take the violence out of it, or don't you know what kind of violence prohibition of alcohol caused.

I think you should get off of your high horse every once in a while and smell the coffee and realize that someone else could possibly have a good idea, and that it may not be a lost of your time to review your position.


scott

Nov 24, 2002, 1:02 PM

Post #68 of 120 (26837 views)

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Two weeks ago I was sitting downtown in the main plaza, in the evening. Two guys, sat down beside me. They started asking who I am, what I'm doing here, etc, just like tons of people do. Then they turned the conversation over to politics, which I did NOT want to discuss, and explained Article 33 to them, etc. But they insisted, and managed to get me to say I probably supported attacking Iraq. Well, they politely informed me that they feel that I have the right to my own opinion, but then gave me a stern warning that there are people in Mexico who would seriously hurt me for saying that, or for saying anything in support of the USA. They kind of scared me a bit. Thats why I am kind of scared of you, or another latino in the USA reading this, and getting their buddies back home to come hunt me down.

Believe it or not, when I was in high school, I was not happy either. Yes, life is not always peachy keen just because you're white. Anyway, there was a website where I did in fact rant like you wouldn't believe, about everything in my life. This is going back 4 years or so. Anyway, on ICQ, I used to talk to some of the same people. I installed ICQ on my grandparents computer, and my grandfather, who knows only how to read the news websites, supposedly stumpled upon references to this site in my ICQ history. And so, him and my grandmother went and read all my very personal rants about every aspect of my life, and hence, why I have made a point not to rant online for the last few years. Sometimes, I can't help myself though. So now you know why I am paranoid. Oh, and if you search on my old email addresses, or my real name, you'll probably come up with stuff I posted online 6 or 7 years ago, when I was 14 or 15 years old. I don't like that stuff being there anymor. Mind you, it was all computer related, but I fear future employeers, when I'm 30 years old, tracking down my rants from when I was 15. And trust me, people do that stuff. My lebanese friend, back in high school, saw my computer teacher searching the internet with my name. Its fine if your 40 or 50, but I have a whole lifetime to think about.


scott

Nov 24, 2002, 1:32 PM

Post #69 of 120 (26842 views)

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$500 pesos / Semester for University

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So.. My ex-Mexican girlfriend, 22 years old, studies architecture at the big public university here. Its big, looks good, recognized anywhere in Latin America, and costs a grand total of $500 pesos / semester. I insisted she must be mistaken, and brought this up with her parents, who told me that yes they pay $500 pesos / semester for their daughter to study architecture at the university level. That is about $80 Canadian dollars a semester. Likewise, for me to go to school in my country, at a school recognized in my country, I have to come up with at least $2000 Canadian dollars / semester. The six months I spent at the college level, cost me $2004 dollars tuition. Yes someone lent me the money, but I am totally responsable for paying it back to them. Neither cases include books, etc. I had to buy a lot of books, which I did with my very own money.

So, a Mexican, can go to school for $80 / semester. Me, an advantaged white Canadian, I have to pay at least $2004 / semester. Can you please explain how I have the upper hand in this? I had excellent marks in what I did, but did not like it. I would like to study at University instead, which I cannot do until this September. I have to wait four years since I was a full time high school student, before I can apply as a mature student. So anyway, while a Mexican gets away with paying $160 / year, I'm looking at at least $4000 / year. So lets just say at absolute bare minimum, I'm looking at $16000 in tuition. Contrary to what you think, just because I am white does not mean my parents can afford to pay that for me. I can get a loan, but will be paying for the rest of my life. So.... This is another reason why I don't think Mexicans have it all that bad, even if their wages are lower than ours. $1000 pesos for a year at school is probably less then what they spend finding their way from say Michoacan, and illegally into the USA. And then they have the nerve to complain that $500 pesos is a lot of money. Yep, about half the cost of that new CD Burner they have.......


CanMex

Nov 24, 2002, 2:29 PM

Post #70 of 120 (26834 views)

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Re: [scott] You are American

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 Scott THREAD # 48


Firstly, I must say that you and Marisol sure got my interest, and I agree with a lot, of what you both say although you are at extremities, and a bit hot under the collar.

"One thing I was trying to get at, is that I think its totally stupid that there is a part of Memphis Tenessee, that is completely black. I didn't mean Canada was perfect, but you will not find that at home. We should all assimilate, and live happily ever after in our new cultures."

You are partly right, I say partly because cities like Montreal (little burgundy which is mostly of color), Toronto etc... big cities do have their "Memphis", but on the other hand the rest of Canada is homogeneous, and much less prejudice than the US. This any person of color who has been in both countries will attest to that. When I was in the US Military I had many GIs of color come and talk to me, when it was known that I was a Canadian, because either they had been stationed in Canada, close to the border or told about Canada. i.e. I was stationed in Platsburgh NY and I would go to Montreal on the weekends, people are real friendly there, there color blind etc... (Oh, one exception to the above, when I was stationed at Ernest Harmon USAFB, Stephenville, Newfoundland, Canada Blacks were not welcome in town, although all other colors were allowed, I regret not trying to find the reason why, but I must also admit that the black and white situation on the base was worse than in town. I believe it was New Year's eve that a racial fight broke in the Airmen's Club, just one of many but this one got so bad, that the Air Police had to get on the stage with M16's and order everyone out and close the club for 3 days. I was myself attacked on the base by 3 black guys while I was walking 2 girls (white Canadians) to the main gate, because they were afraid to walk alone on the base. (that might explain why they were not Welcomed in town?) It got so bad at one point that they conducted a search of all the barracks and came up with boxes of knives and other assorted illegal weapons.

Before I go further I should tell a little bit about myself, to avoid unnecessary posts:
I live in Valleyfield, QC pop. approx. 40,000, 30 miles from Montreal. On my street 90% plus white, I see everyday, people of color going by this includes Orientals, Hispanics, Blacks and others in this order. I must also mention that I was 12 years first time I saw a person of color. My girl friend (soon to be wife) is Mexican and lives in a Ejido in Tamaulipas, Mexico, 109 Kms from the closest big city, Ciudad Victoria the capital of Tamps, were I also live when I am in Mexico (which should be permanent next year)

I am a Vietnam Vet and proud of it. I have spent 9 years in the US Air Force, I could have been US Citizen after 3 years but decided I did not want to drop my Canadian Citizenship, because back then you could not hold double citizenship like you can today.

I mention this to remove doubts that I may not have experience living in the US in 3 different states on 4 different Air Bases, also Canada, Mexico, Vietnam. Or that I have no experience living with different nationalities as well as colors, pun intended here, I have seen of all colors.

"We should all assimilate, and live happily ever after in our new cultures."

Amen brother, I have always remembered the quote "When in Rome do as the Romans do" I hope I got the quote right, you get the point. And this is what I always tried to do, and it served me well. When at Castle AFB, CA, an airmen who I was working with, had married a French girl (France) who did not speak english and he did not speak french, my being a french speaking Canadian I became their interpreter.

She steadily was saying, We in France and Those Americans etc.. So 1 year or 2 later they divorced, so I told her I guess you will be going back to France now. her answer was; no why, so I said; you have been complaining steadily about the US and bragging about France, I assumed you were unhappy here and would go back to France first opportunity, she said; me go back to France were they do not have all the conveniences they have here, No. I think there is a Moral here somewhere?

Constructive criticism is not only good, but probably the major thing to keep us on the straight and narrow. I did say "CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM"

"Don't cling to your latina roots, what's the point. If you think Mexican culture is so great, then go live in Mexico. If you are in the United States, assimilate."

I would rather say cling to your latina roots if it makes you feel good, but when outside of your latina world, respect the right of others to have their own roots. I left the US for Canada, because I was more comfortable with their policies and way of living, I feel Canada is more peaceful, and social than the US i.e. not so fast at warring, no death penalty, universal health care etc...

But now I am preparing to leave Canada for Mexico because it is more laid back, their value on family and social life, the economy is geared for a more relaxed life (less now than before regretfully, but still prevalent in the boonies and that's why, you would not catch me in a tourist or expat community, that's what I am running from) the climate etc... vs the rat race So yes I agree if you do not like a country, work at changing it in a respectful way or leave it.


""It sickens me when a person that clearly has advantages... "

What are my advantages? Please, I'd like to know.... The fact that I am white. Oh I see, that's why I have so many advantages in life. What about the dirt poor white person, who grew up in a trailer park with an abusive alcoholic father? Are you saying that kid has advantages too just because he is white? Because you know nothing about my life, you're just assuming that because I am white my life must be peachy keen without problems. White people don't have problems, they have so many advantages, etc etc. Give me a break, everyone in the world has problems. ""

You must admit that in a white community, specially, in the US you do have an advantage and there is a difference. I can see specially when I cross from Mexico into the US on foot, Mexicans getting their papers checked, I just say Canadian, they sometimes ask me for ID sometimes not. For example have you ever heard of profiling white Caucasians.

Your amazement with Memphis, kind of proves it, they are together in a neighborhood not as Marisol says for support, but by force of the economy, and prejudice that won't allow them to live in certain areas, and believe it or not they are prejudice in between themselves. I remember being in a black neighborhood in Florida and I was talking with this Black girl and a black guy came up to bum money off of me and the black girl said don't pay any attention to him is nothing but a niger, I said your black, she says yea I am black but he is a nigger. To them a no good black is a nigger.

You are right there are poor and prejudiced whites, but far fewer than other races.


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 3:31 PM

Post #71 of 120 (26813 views)

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Scott,

I'm sorry for your experiences with people judging your by what you said and the two idiots who told you people in Mexico would hurt you for feeling the U.S. should attack Iraq. Well here's one for you. I hope the U.S. DOES get Saddam Hussain. As a matter of fact, many of my Mexican neighbors feel the same. We do not all have the same political views as we aren't cookie cutter varieties of people. Hell, there are Mexicans that would hate me for feeling the word 'gringo' is racist and I supported the U.S. in the Afghanistan invasion, because when you have maniacal leaders threatening the world with weapons of mass destruction or chemical warfare, I feel you need to remove the threat for the good of mankind.

You probably are surprised about this, right? I know you think I'm a complete, "knee jerk liberal" and for the most part you would be right, but I evaluate each circumstance based on it's own merit, not on popular thought or party line. I can say that those same two idiots would want to bomb the HELL out of Iraq if they were directly attacking Mexico so they are probably hypocrites as well.

I understand your feelings that my husband may not have changed. Many people feel that once a gang member always a gang member, even in Mexico. It was the reason he had difficulty meeting quality women when he was single. Because the ones that usually accepted him were vulgar, and the ones he wanted to be with were snobby. Honestly, I was hesitant myself, and was friends with him for a year before we got involved. We even double dated...LOL The two other things that completely turned me off was the fact that he drove a corvette, which I thought was a car that represented an extension of his manhood, and he was a muscle head, which I've NEVER been attracted to because I thought these types were superficial. I was wrong about all of it. But I confess, I did encourage him to sell the vette...LOL...because my girlfriends were having a field day with that one!

He has his own business now, Scott. He sells artwork. As I said, we've adopted four dogs, two cats and he occassionally brings home a stray, which I promptly have him take elsewhere. He nearly cries when he sees homeless dogs in Tijuana walking along the highway, and believe it or not, he was whimpering about the damn cockroaches I found dead on the floor after the exterminator did our house. His mother has twenty cats and the whole family is nuts. He really feels badly about his past life. Sometimes I see him thinking and I know he's thinking about all the crap he went through. He worships me for what he calls "bringing him back to life." You see, people in gangs usually are not happy. They have feelings too, even though they do some pretty awful things...now not all, but most. I'm not saying there aren't A-moral people out there, but for the most part, the kids that join gangs do so to belong to something, because they feel they belong to nothing.

You got me...I don't know about native life in Canada...so I apologize. I have no conception of growing up without seeing a minority neighborhood. And yes, I've seen wealthy minority neighborhoods and even lived in one...smile. My father was an artist and my mother was a model. As I said, I have a privileged life, and a spoiled advantaged one, in spite of the fact I'm Latina. Not all of us are broke.

I feel the laws in the U.S. with regards to any number of Latino issues clearly do prove that we are not advantaged as a people though. When I was younger, I grew up in the poor neighborhoods until my father made it in his career. I know the difference between the two. Oddly enough, I preferred the poorer neighborhoods, because I always felt closer to the folks there. When my father finally was making good money, I never felt close to my neighbors.

Okay, so round two. We got the lights up around the windows and now Netto is moving to the roof. God help the world because he's 250 pounds!


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 3:56 PM

Post #72 of 120 (26812 views)

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Re: [CanMex] You are American

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CanMex,

I'm sorry but to hear someone that is White tell me how I should approach being Latin is laughable. Should I provide you with advice on how to be White? Would you listen? Not likely!

I feel that respect is a two way street. If a person wants respect, then they are under an obligation to dish it out, and some of the crap I've read in these threads stating that Blacks are six times more violent than Whites yet oddly enough when that person listed the top violent countries there were no African countries on the list, should have provided an answer. Of course when I posted that, the post was deleted, yet that person's post was not. I did not say anything negative about Whites in that post, I simply explained the disparity of income, police harrassement, and several other factors that happen to Blacks. I'm sure this will be deleted as well, because information may escape and infect your minds.

I don't buy the views that ANY race is an authority on how others should behave. I don't buy it because you happen to have a Mexican significant other or even if she was your wife. I might buy it from your wife, since she is from my culture, but not from you. And in turn, I wouldn't propose to tell you how White people should behave, because while I'm half White and half Mexican, I don't propose to be an expert.

What I do know is that historically and currently there IS privilege for certain people. Those people happen to be White. Should you apologize for it? NO! Should it be changed? Yes. Racial profiling, racial intolerance, racial preferences in the workplace, financial arenas, and political arenas should not even be an issue in 2002 in the U.S. But it is.

The reason those Black folks live in enclaves in Memphis and have a decent financial portfolio has NOTHING to do with economics. It has to do with the fact that they feel a comfort with their own people that they don't feel with everyone. Why? Because SOME people have agendas that aren't favorable to their race. It's the same with Latinos. Many of us prefer our own communities to living in a homogenous community where our kids here racist jokes and Betty down the street boycotts against the color we choose for our house because SHE doesn't like the color green or whatever. We don't find that in our own communities.

When I lived in a brand new planned community in Mukilteo Washington, I found that I hated it. The neighbors were always trying to compete with me and when I raked my yard, laid compost and planted lawn seed, they stopped talking to me. It seems they were angry because I had lawn first. That wouldn't have happened in my old neighborhood. They would have asked how I did it and probably I would have helped them plant theirs.

Why is it that people that never lived in our skin, feel they have more knowledge about us than us? That never made sense to me. Have you ever had someone ask you if your parents slaughtered pigs in the yard because that's what they thought your race did? I have. Have you ever had someone tell you that you look exotic? I have and I hate it. I don't look different or exotic. I look very normal for my mix. You see? I could go on and on, but I won't bore you.

Learn about your future wife, by all means. But PLEASE don't profess to be an expert about something until you've worn the shoes.


pat

Nov 24, 2002, 4:03 PM

Post #73 of 120 (26810 views)

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Re: [Georgia] You are American

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"Mexicans find the Canadian and American straightforwardness very rude"

Heck, U.S. Southerners have found this behavior in their Yankee countrymen rude for the past few hundred years. If you find out how to change their behavior toward Mexicans, please let us know the secret. We will try it on them up here too. Heh heh :)

ducking and running

Pat


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 4:04 PM

Post #74 of 120 (26806 views)

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Re: [scott] $500 pesos / Semester for University

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Scott,

Please tell me that you don't think that your girlfriend is completely representative of all Mexicans. Do you realize how many Mexicans CAN'T afford a college education???

As far as the shopkeeper that sits in front of his shop...that shop keeper often makes very little money because business is not that good. Could he go to college and work? Probably not, because his hours would not coincide. Could he afford it? Do you really believe he'd have that shop if he could? Get real!


MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 24, 2002, 4:08 PM

Post #75 of 120 (26810 views)

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Re: [CanMex] You are American

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"Amen brother, I have always remembered the quote "When in Rome do as the Romans do" I hope I got the quote right, you get the point. And this is what I always tried to do, and it served me well. When at Castle AFB, CA, an airmen who I was working with, had married a French girl (France) who did not speak english and he did not speak french, my being a french speaking Canadian I became their interpreter."

Then please explain to me why Americans come to Mexico and EXPECT Mexicans to speak English to them...after all...when in Rome....

Also, why would they feel legalizing drugs is okay in Mexico, when they won't even do this in the U.S.? And why do they bring so many habits and expectations. I'm sorry, but you and I know this is b.s.

I think you meant, "Everyone else do as the Romans do, but by God let the U.S. citizens mandate to the world what their expectations are and they better be met."
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