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chinagringo


May 28, 2011, 5:44 PM

Post #51 of 77 (5999 views)

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Re: [tonynico] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Tony:

Please get a grip! Changes happen in Mexico in their own due time and will be different from Consulate to Consulate and office to office within Mexico. Nothing is ever consistent!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



tonynico

May 28, 2011, 5:50 PM

Post #52 of 77 (5992 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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In any event it will be what it will be. 75 percent done packing just got to sell off some things or donate it. and in July we are on our way.
Tony


DavidHF

May 29, 2011, 6:19 AM

Post #53 of 77 (5956 views)

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Re: [tonynico] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Some changes went into effect in May of 2010; there are no more FMT, FM2, or FM3.


Ric Hoffman


May 29, 2011, 6:40 AM

Post #54 of 77 (5952 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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All this analysis of the law is of academic interest to some folks, but not to me.
The real meat will come with the regulations. I'll be very interested in that.
In the meantime, I'm content to wait.


It may be academic but it is good reading. For instance, the LEY GENERAL DE POBLACIÓN with its last revision date of 27012011 devoted an entire chapter to Sanctions (twenty five articles) with fines ranging from 20 to 1000 times the daily wage in DF. Short of any real criminal activity I foresee only hand slapping for minor infractions of the new immigration act. Regulations do not impose fines or penalties.

After reading it completely, you will see it should be hailed as a milestone for the expatriates currently in Mexico as well as those who follow.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on May 29, 2011, 8:32 AM)


richmx2


May 29, 2011, 11:36 AM

Post #55 of 77 (5876 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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I don't see these new regulations are really affecting rentistas all that much ... and they don't seem to have been drawn up with the them in mind, but rather to deal with the more pressing social phenomena of migration from Central America (and in lesser numbers from Eastern Europe and Asia).

I think sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I've seen estimates of the number of English-speaking foreigners in Mexico as high as three million, and certainly they have an economic and social impact (mostly limited to consumer spending), but you can hardly expect that one subset of those foreigners is the priority of those drafting sweeping changes to federal regulations.


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http://mexicobookpublishers.com


La Isla


May 29, 2011, 11:51 AM

Post #56 of 77 (5869 views)

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Re: [richmx2] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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I think sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I've seen estimates of the number of English-speaking foreigners in Mexico as high as three million, and certainly they have an economic and social impact (mostly limited to consumer spending), but you can hardly expect that one subset of those foreigners is the priority of those drafting sweeping changes to federal regulations.


Let's not forget that, at least in Mexico City, many of these English-speaking expats are still working and contributing to the economy by paying taxes as well as spending money as consumers. Here's some data I received a little over a year ago from Democrats Abroad:

Almost 800,000 US citizens now live in Mexico, according to verifiable sources.

Employees: 275,600
Spouses: 159,297
Children under 18: 227,086
Students: 16,500
Gov. personnel: 318
Retirees: 61,480
Unofficial retirees: 30,740


arbon

May 29, 2011, 12:00 PM

Post #57 of 77 (5867 views)

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Re: [richmx2] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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For sure, if Canadian retirees were financially attractive to the States and American retirees were financially attractive to Canada, they would both be welcome in each others country for more than six months at a time, ........like they are in Mexico.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



johang


May 29, 2011, 2:22 PM

Post #58 of 77 (5838 views)

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Re: [La Isla] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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La Isla where did you get that? I would love to take a look see what else may be there. The debate about how many expats crops up all the time.

Johan....If we all do a little we can do a lot. Visit our little corner of paradise at the Jaltemba Jalapeño.


La Isla


May 29, 2011, 2:42 PM

Post #59 of 77 (5832 views)

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Re: [johang] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Hi johan,

The information I posted I hand-copied from some material given out at an organizational meeting held last year. I don't know where they got it from.

Marsha


richmx2


May 29, 2011, 3:36 PM

Post #60 of 77 (5821 views)

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Re: [La Isla] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Marsha: that's what I meant by a "subset" of foreigners... many of us (you and I for certain) are working people. I'm kind of curious about those numbers you dug up too. They might be from the U.S. Census, which didn't do all that much to find U.S. citizens here, or U.S. citizens who go to the trouble of registering with the Embassy. There's always been a sizable number of foreigners here because they don't particularly like the U.S. government (or are hiding from it for one reason or another) or who just don't see much point in bothering with U.S. bureaucrats (I'm in the latter group) and wouldn't be included... nor, obviously, would Canadians, British, Irish, etc. English-speaking foreigners.

All that aside, I wonder what "unofficially retired" means... slacker? bank robber laying low?


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


tashby


May 29, 2011, 3:44 PM

Post #61 of 77 (5818 views)

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Re: [richmx2] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Quote
I wonder what "unofficially retired" means...


Inmate?

I saw that category also and it made me giggle. It probably applies to me, statistically. But I doubt I'm a statistic.


Rolly


May 29, 2011, 3:58 PM

Post #62 of 77 (5809 views)

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Re: New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Article 53 worries me.

Article 53. Visitors, except those for humanitarian reasons and those who have links with Mexican or regular resident alien in Mexico, can not change status of residence and will have to leave the country at the end of the period of stay authorized.

Does "those who have links with Mexican or regular resident alien in Mexico" mean that those of us who are already here can change status without leaving the country?

Does "except those for humanitarian reasons" cover folks who are not physically able to make the trip back to the old country?

Rolly Pirate


morgaine7


May 29, 2011, 3:58 PM

Post #63 of 77 (5806 views)

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Re: [johang] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Here are 2010 census figures for residents of Mexico born in other countries. It shows the growth since 2000:
http://www.inegi.org.mx/...mp;s=est&c=23635

Kate


La Isla


May 29, 2011, 3:59 PM

Post #64 of 77 (5805 views)

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Re: [richmx2] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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I have no idea where those numbers come from. Your guess is as good as, or better, than mine. But it does give you somewhere to begin. The organization that put it together is interested in keeping in touch with Democrats who are living here, so they can get them absentee ballots and keep them apprised of political happenings back home, especially of matters that affect the lives of expats here. Thanks to them I was able to vote here in the primary elections back in 2008 and get an absentee ballot for the general election too.


La Isla


May 29, 2011, 4:01 PM

Post #65 of 77 (5800 views)

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Re: [tashby] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Maybe it means those who live here and don't need to work but have not yet applied for retirement from the US Social Security Administration.


Ric Hoffman


May 29, 2011, 4:04 PM

Post #66 of 77 (5798 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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In Reply To
Here are 2010 census figures for residents of Mexico born in other countries. It shows the growth since 2000:
http://www.inegi.org.mx/...mp;s=est&c=23635

Kate

And from the INM web site: http://www.inm.gob.mx/...disticas_Migratorias


Ric Hoffman


May 29, 2011, 4:25 PM

Post #67 of 77 (5787 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Article 53 worries me.
The loop hole for the turnaround 180 day visitors may be closing soon. All those who currently use the cross border shopping trip and then returning under a new FMM would fall under this article. While most people believe they are entitled to a new FMM immediately the actual LGP does not address multiple tourist visas; not even mentioning once a year entitlement. It just says not more than 180 days. The newly out dated regulations allowed one to change their status from Tourist to No Inmigrante by merely submitting the proper forms and request.

Article 53 prohibits change from a “visitor” to “temporary resident” which is available now, but states flatly “may not change status to stay and will leave the country at the end of the period of stay authorized.” So the decision to become a “Temporary Resident” would have to be made prior to crossing the border also meeting the requirements before the visa or resident card being issued. It would not effect those currently holding either No Inmigrante or Inmigrante status. I would not want to venture a guess as to the status of those holding FMM since I did not see the issue raised in the transitory clause. If you plan to continue as a "temporary resident" I would apply now for No Inmigrante if still allowed to do so. After reviewing the transitory clause for those currently holding Tourist: “… is deemed the visitor without permission to carry out remunerated activities;”



(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on May 29, 2011, 5:27 PM)


stevebrtx

May 29, 2011, 5:07 PM

Post #68 of 77 (5763 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Not to challenge those numbers, but I can guarantee they are off by at least one, I was home every day and the census never showed up at my gate, not initially and not after the supposed two followups.


YucaLandia


May 29, 2011, 7:19 PM

Post #69 of 77 (5741 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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 In the current Diario Oficial website on the new law, (reopen now after being shut down for... updates?) there is one item that caught my attention:
Chapter 8, Article 162, Sexto:
"V. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de Inmigrante, dentro las características de rentista, inversionista, profesional, cargo de confianza, científico, técnico, familiar, artista y deportista o asimilados, se equipararán al Residente temporal,


We translate this to:
"V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of "Inmigrante" (old FM2), who meet the characteristics "Rentista" ( financier), investor, professional position of trust, scientific, technical, family, artist, sports or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status."

This seems to mean that "Inmigrante Rentista" (a common expat - old FM2 Rentista category that allowed holders to keep a foreign plated vehicle) and "Inmigrante Familiar" will be converted to "Temporal Residente" / Temporary Residents.

This also then points by default (?) to the other un-named "Inmigrante" categories (working "Inmigrantes", etc) being categorized as "Residente Permanente" (= old "Inmigrado" status), under the new law?

My Yucatecan wife agrees with these translations, but neither of us are immigration abogados, so, I hesitate to make definitive claims about what is and what isn't covered here.

Do other folks out their interpret "calidad migratoria de Inmigrante, dentro las características de rentista, inversionista, profesional, cargo de confianza, científico, técnico, familiar, artista y deportista o asimilados," to equate to the old "Inmigrante Rentista", "Inmigrante Familiar", etc ? I understand that all of the listed categories (including cientifico) do not allow the holder to work for pay.

Categorizing non-working Inmigrantes/"non-working FM2's" as Temporary Residents makes some sense, though not everyone will agree. Job = roots. Money in the bank = portablilty?

Still, if you have 4 years of "FM3" or "Rentista FM2", or "Familiar FM2", the law appears to say you qualify to apply for "Residente Permanente"

Makes sense?

My apologies if this point just rehashes what others have already pointed out, but making a distinction between "working Inmigrantes" (working FM2's) as Permanent Residents, and categorizing "non-working Inmigrantes" as Temporary Residents seems significant to many ex-pats.

Based on these "new" distinctions, some ex-pats may choose to apply to change status under existing regs and categories to get the terms you want/need, rather than waiting until the new regs close some categories.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 29, 2011, 7:49 PM)


Rolly


May 29, 2011, 7:36 PM

Post #70 of 77 (5735 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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It will interesting to see how "Residente Permanente" affects vehicle permits.
I'm sure there will be lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth if the car has to go.

Rolly Pirate


Ric Hoffman


May 29, 2011, 7:44 PM

Post #71 of 77 (5729 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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In Reply To
It will interesting to see how "Residente Permanente" affects vehicle permits.
I'm sure there will be lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth if the car has to go.


You were allowed to own or operate foreign plated vehicles while Inmigrante, it was only after the fourth Refrendo expiration, when you declared Inmigrado that were you denied that privilege. The Aduana Ley Article 106 governs operation foreign plated vehicles not INM. Under the current law the restriction would be applied to “Permanent Residents”.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on May 29, 2011, 7:44 PM)


YucaLandia


May 29, 2011, 7:45 PM

Post #72 of 77 (5726 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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Good point, Rolly.

"Inmigrante Rentista" (Resident with financial means = FM2 Rentista) would no longer be classified as long-term Resident, but it would drop back into the Temporary Resident category, where one might assume that all Permanent Residents are not allowed to have foreign-plated vehicles, and that all Temporary Residents would qualify to keep their foreign-plated cars/pick-ups. The old "Inmigrante Familiar" (Family FM2) would then be quickly eligible to apply for Permanent Residency, which makes sense that spouses and children would also be Permanent Residents (categories which are specifically identified as eligible in the new law).

These changes would clarify and much simply ex-pats status and requirements (just 2 flavors of immigrant Residents) vs. the current somewhat convolved systems.
steve
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Fun Stuff!
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


Ric Hoffman


May 29, 2011, 7:56 PM

Post #73 of 77 (5718 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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In Reply To
This also then points by default (?) to the other un-named "Inmigrante" categories (working "Inmigrantes", etc) being categorized as "Residente Permanente" (= old "Inmigrado" status), under the new law?

My Yucatecan wife agrees with these translations, but neither of us are immigration abogados, so, I hesitate to make definitive claims about what is and what isn't covered here.
From the Transitory Clause posted earlier: VI. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of immigrated, is deemed to permanent resident. Means the Imigrado is now a "Permanent Resident"



(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on May 29, 2011, 8:07 PM)


Peter


May 30, 2011, 2:42 AM

Post #74 of 77 (5670 views)

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Re: [Rolly] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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My visa expires soon. Having already had four renewals of the fm3/no inmigrante this time I must make a new application. I just began looking at requirements this past week in anticipation of obtaining the new visa when this new law began coming about. To my surprise either way, under the new and under the old regs I see I am suddely eligible for Inmigrado. That caught me by surprise as I still have my US vehicle and made no special plans to get rid of or nationalize it right away, though I have little qualms about doing so.

I am sure others will also be caught by surprise in this way. The vehicles we have are a stumbling block by old system rules. I will be curious to see if we will be granted some additional time to somehow regularize this situation. It may lead to a scrambling to the border to get rid of vehicles or flooding aduana with new applications to nationalize them. It seems to be the only unresolved "problem" to have to fix, otherwise I am delighted by the new revelations that under either set of laws I now am eligible to become a permanent resident.

I hope someone thinks to consider this situation and make some new allowance for this which will no doubt effect many of us.

Last year I got caught in the confusion while INM switched over to the new cards and my expiration date made me one of the first in line. I had hoped all would be smooth this year as in other times in the past. Looks like no such luck this year either. It appears it will be a test of patience once again, the one thing I have very short supply of.


(This post was edited by Peter on May 30, 2011, 3:04 AM)


YucaLandia


May 30, 2011, 9:32 AM

Post #75 of 77 (5564 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] New Immigration law now in effect for Mexico

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TANGENTIAL POINT:
This brings up a really good point me. Many translating engines don't differentiate between "Inmigrado"and "Ïnmigrante" and other internet translating engines take:
Transitorios, Sexto: IV. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de No inmigrante, dentro las características de asilado político y refugiado, se equipararán al Residente permanente;
Using Google Translate yesterday, this translated to:
IV. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of immigrant who do not meet the characteristics of political asylum and refugees, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status.

Note how last week's Google put the negative "no" in the wrong spot. Google learns fast though: today, it correctly keeps the ""no" with immigrant to give "non immigrant".

Because of the variations between how things get translated, I think it is cleaner to insert the original Spanish terms for Inmigrado/Inmigrante/No Inmigrante into the final translations to maintain clarity.

On the issue of “Permanente Residente” / old “Inmigrado”, the new law reads:
Article 162, Sexto: VI. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de inmigrado, se equipararán al Residente permanente. “
then translates to:
” VI. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “inmigrado”, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status. “In any case, the new Permanent Resident category sure seems to include at least 2 of the old categories: i.e. both the old Ïnmigrado and the working Inmigrante (working FM2) categories.

We expect even more fun and surprises when the Regulacion is promulgated and each state/office decides how to implement all the new twists and turns.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com
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