How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello all,

Ouch! The "Sol de Zacatecas" reported this morning, March 16th, that 130 of the 200 hotels registered in the Hotel Union are at the point of bankruptcy. Hotel occupancy here in the City of Zacatecas is at 25% and those hotels cannot continue operating with that occupancy rate.

How is the narco violence affecting your region?

Hasta luego, jerezano

Casa

Mar 16, 2011, 11:13 AM

Post #2 of 66 (4455 views)

"The United States Olympic Committee promised to have a security plan in place before sending athletes to the Pan American Games this year in Guadalajara, which is engulfed in a deepening drug war.

The violence in Mexico's second biggest city has raised concerns about Guadalajara's ability to host thousands of athletes and tens of thousands of fans from across the Americas at the October 14-30 Pan American Games

The build-up to the Pan Am Games has been marred by violence as drug cartels battle for control of the host city.
Guadalajara has been the scene of escalating fighting with gangs attacking bars, police stations, hijacking cars and and blocking major roads and highways."

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Rolly

Mar 16, 2011, 11:58 AM

Post #3 of 66 (4433 views)

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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My area has never been a tourist destination, so the drug wars have not changed that.

I was stunned to read this in Borderland Beat this morning:

Last year [2010], the Comarca Lagunera region that is located in Torreón, Coahuila, Gomez Palacio and Lerdo, Durango, was the second most violent place in Mexico after Ciudad Juarez, with 689 drug-related killings.

I don't think I believe that second place designation.

BTW, the article is a thought-provoking portrait of an army general who is a very gung-ho gang fighter.

Rolly Pirate

Mar 16, 2011, 12:00 PM

Post #4 of 66 (4431 views)

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I would presume that there are others like ourselves who have altered our normal travel patterns due to narco violence. We typically have spent one Zacatecas night in each direction traveling New Mexico to central Mexico. Not so much the negative reports coming out of the immediate Zacatecas area but those coming out of Chihuahua, Torreon and the highways in between that have convinced us to fly into Guadalajara rather than drive. Granted none of our typical hotels will get rich off our four nights of hotel stays but even with the higher airfares, it is almost a wash cost wise when one keeps track of the costs for hotels, restaurants, gas, tolls, etc. We will miss our enjoyable stays in centro Zacatecas but it is all about our "personal comfort zone"!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Mar 16, 2011, 2:21 PM

Post #5 of 66 (4410 views)

Re: [Casa] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Wow, Casa, That is heavy. I noticed quotation marks around your post, but you do not cite your source. Please do so. Thanks, T

Mar 16, 2011, 2:28 PM

Post #6 of 66 (4404 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Rolly, I think Borderland Beats provides some good info, on occasion. Please notice their laundry list of disclaimers, though. We cannot fall into the trap of any site that preseumes to offer factual information on the drug wars in Mexico. I live in Ajijic, which will soon be a suburb of GDL and things have been quiet here for the last three weeks. Quiet, or the cartels have taken over GDL. How do we know? How will we ever know? Pretty frustrating. We just have to live our lives and report our personal experiences. Cannot believe the media here any more than you can in the States. T

Casa

Mar 16, 2011, 2:40 PM

Post #7 of 66 (4401 views)

Re: [T] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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In Reply To

Wow, Casa, That is heavy. I noticed quotation marks around your post, but you do not cite your source. Please do so. Thanks, T

It is a hyper link so if you click it the whole article should open right up......

Mar 16, 2011, 3:39 PM

Post #8 of 66 (4378 views)

Re: [T] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Instead of "regurgitating" the common disclaimer often made by those that have a vested interest in keeping the news on the "QT", you might try checking their sources when provided. In all my time following BORDERLAND BEAT, I could probably count on two hands (10 fingers) those stories that have not been confirmed or documented elsewhere.

Ajijic may soon become a suburb of Guadalajara but you best not promote that concept. Try reading the daily news out of Guadalajara once every so often to get a grip on exactly what is going on there. Narco violence happens virtually every day in the big city!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Mar 16, 2011, 5:10 PM

Post #9 of 66 (4346 views)

Re: [T] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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So give us a few examples where BB's info has been not true.

skier14

Mar 16, 2011, 5:38 PM

Post #10 of 66 (4333 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Did anyone else notice the article (I can´t remember where on the web) about US drones being used to track the cartels? Could this lead to retaliation?

Rolly

Mar 16, 2011, 5:42 PM

Post #11 of 66 (4332 views)

Re: [skier14] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Could this lead to retaliation?
By whom against whom?

Rolly Pirate

smokesilver

Mar 16, 2011, 6:20 PM

Post #12 of 66 (4319 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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It appears that maybe the General was moved 'out of the way'. The US needs this guy in Afghanistan. Gen Patraeus is covered with to many 'feel good' medals to suit this old GI.

Mar 16, 2011, 6:32 PM

Post #13 of 66 (4312 views)

Re: [skier14] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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If the US has the technology and Mexico is mart enough to recognize the value, then what is wrong? Personally I am not happy with the methodology that the US has used in general but sometimes small steps forward are positive!

Personally, I was very dissapointed when they announced that the mayor, the police chief and city council member of Columbus, NM were only up for a five year max sentences for their alleged straw purchases of weapons. The only good thing so for is that they did not grant them bail provisions and they are still in jail!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

skier14

Mar 16, 2011, 6:34 PM

Post #14 of 66 (4312 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The article was from Boarderland beat. Retaliation by cartels against things or persons American.

bfwpdx

Mar 17, 2011, 6:54 AM

Post #15 of 66 (4227 views)

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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We left our winter home at Lake Chapala the first of March, traveling up highway 15 to Nogales. We stopped one night in Navajoa at the pet friendly Best Western. Usually, if we don't book they can be full when we arrive at 6PM so we booked. No need as our pooches were the only ones in there. In fact the place looked deserted. The highways were very quiet, we only saw one group of 3 RVs heading back to Canada. Otherwise never saw one on the highway. When we got back home my son's friend's mom had just returned from a 4 month RV trip through Mexico and she reported that the campgrounds were "dead". Nobody there. This winter most of our BC friends stayed home. We were the only ones who drove down....

Rolly

Mar 17, 2011, 11:56 AM

Post #16 of 66 (4159 views)

Re: [smokesilver] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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"It appears that maybe the General was moved 'out of the way'."

Not at all. He was not transfered; he is retired from the army. He was offered a better job in QR.
Damn sorry to see him go.

Rolly Pirate

smokesilver

Mar 17, 2011, 1:16 PM

Post #17 of 66 (4133 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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That's good news. It would appear that he will be an asset whereever he goes.

Altahabana

Mar 17, 2011, 4:45 PM

Post #18 of 66 (4093 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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In 2003 Nuevo Laredo was the first city in Mexico to experience open inter-cartel fighting when the Sinaloa cartel, led by the now infamous Edgar "La Barbie" Villarreal tried to take control of the Plaza from the Gulf Cartel which was in a state of transition because of the arrest of Osiel Cardenas. NL historically had a thriving day tourist industry attracting tens of thousands annually from Texas who would come to shop. The Gulf-Sinaloa war literally destroyed this important segment of the local economy and it has not come back. Now you rarely see gringos walking around in the downtown area, although the downtown area has never experienced any real narco-violence.

I too think Borderland Beat is a good resource for anyone who wants some insight into what is actually happening. Many of their stories, especially the more analytic ones, are borrowed from established media sources. The editors of Borderland exhibit a bit more restaint than their counterparts at Blog del Narco, but they still provide a visual portrait of the brutality and sheer barbarity that is involved.

playaboy

Mar 18, 2011, 7:28 AM

Post #19 of 66 (3998 views)

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Cancun and the Riviera Maya are having a great High Season. Hotels are having good occupancy, restaurants and bars are hopping and the beach is full of people having a good time.

This area has very little narco violence going on and the stuff that happens doesn't get reported (which is a good thing).

Mar 20, 2011, 4:54 PM

Post #20 of 66 (3732 views)

Re: [playaboy] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Most of the campgrounds in Mexico are less than half full. There are CG's in Mazatlan that are full up every year. This season one of them is almost deserted. Kino, San Carlos and Penasco have not suffered as much. You dont have to drive through Sinaloa to get to Sonora!! If things do not change by next season many of the CG's will just close ! We have driven North from Kino about 5 times this season. Hardly any RV traffic. Very few caravans. The CG's that are beach front will probably sell the property to some scummy condo developer!

Moisheh

Mar 20, 2011, 7:55 PM

Post #21 of 66 (3685 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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How you could possibley know that "most" of the campgrounds in Mexico are less than half-full is a mystery, did you visit "most" of them? Here at Lakeside the Snowbirds are back in flocks, traffic is a mess and the restaurants are busy. Way more snowbirds than last year. So I guess that not all Canadians are going to AZ or FL. Thankfully it will be Easter soon and we can return to "Canadian Savings Time."

Mar 20, 2011, 10:18 PM

Post #22 of 66 (3657 views)

Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I don't know about Lake Chapala but I know the owner of the RV park in Melaque and she had a poor season. Less RVs and the ones that did come, came later and stayed less time.

Same goes for tourism in general on the Jalisco coast.

Mar 21, 2011, 5:10 AM

Post #23 of 66 (3636 views)

Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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David: My info comes from other RV'rs and CG owners. Chapala is not exactly a haven for Rv'rs. One CG in Maz has more spaces than in all of Chapala. Many experienced Rv'rs just stayed away this year. So you are basing your comments on one small region??

Moisheh

playaboy

Mar 21, 2011, 9:11 AM

Post #24 of 66 (3578 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I have traveled around this season in my RV and have been to many parks. They are not doing well and occupancy is way down.

I believe that RV travelers are an infinitesimal number in the tourism business in Mexico. There are more people flying into Cancun in a day than all the RVers in all of Mexico during a year. How many can we be? A couple of thousand?

That said, I believe that the narco violence did affect a large percentage of RVers from making the trip. That hurts the people that service Rvers

Mar 21, 2011, 10:16 AM

Post #25 of 66 (3550 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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This "one small region" gets several thousand snowbirds each season. They drive or fly and stay in their winter homes or rentals. They come in the fall and leave in the spring, usually by Easter.

richmx2

Mar 21, 2011, 12:57 PM

Post #26 of 66 (1301 views)

Re: [playaboy] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Of course, how much of the RV business is down everywhere, even for domestic travelers within the U.S. and Canada?

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Mar 21, 2011, 2:15 PM

Post #27 of 66 (1282 views)

Re: [richmx2] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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David HF: Make up your mind do you want to speak of RV'rs or winter guests. Not the same ! According to what I have read and seen RV tourism is down by about 50% compared to other years. And yes RV'rs make up a very small portion of the tourism in Mexico. All tourism is down by way more than 50% in Acapulco. In December El Imparcial did a story on how 5000 service employees in hotels and Restaurants were laid off. Another 4000 were only working when there was a fiesta or a puente. Unless something changes I think that all of Mexico is going to suffer. So far the Maquiladoras have not closed any plants due to the violence. Foreign investment in Mexico is way up. But will that continue with increasing violence? Quien sabe!

Moisheh

Mar 22, 2011, 2:54 PM

Post #28 of 66 (1205 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I've said nothing about RVers and don't intend too. My comments concerned only the number of seasonal visitors, primarily Canadians, to the Lake Chapala area. The Tourism Secretariat recently announced that tourism for the entire country is up substantially over the previous two years. I don't know about RVers. I suspect that many folks, like Chinagringo, have chosen to fly rather than drive. Never the less, the major tourism magnets such as Puerto Vallarta and the Riviera Maya seem to be doing rather well.

Mar 22, 2011, 4:54 PM

Post #29 of 66 (1181 views)

Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello DavidHF,

I have been following this interesting post as I believe it provides some good insight into a certainly an apparently contentious subject. I think you would have to admit David, that (as everyone living there would have us believe) Lake Chapala is a rather unique neighborhood (area if you will) along with SMA. I don't believe though that one could make a valid argument that Lake Chapala could be called "representative" of all of Mexico either . . . . . . . a part of the equation, . . . . . yes certainly, . . . . . but not what any statistician would call representative of all of Mexico. Let’s face it a great amount of money is spent in advertising telling the world just how different Lake Chapala is and let’s face it . . . . . from what I have read here and then again on other posts, the freshly washed (previously dirty) laundry of Lake Chapala is certainly never “air dried” outside on the line so to speak for all to see. From what I have read on this and other posts, there have been murders and intimidation regarding real-estate transactions in Lake Chapala . . . . . God forbid that ever gets out (for example in Real Estate Advertising) on a grand scale.(smiling)

I think the author of this post has certainly started a good controversial post with some interesting answers. It will be interesting to see how this post proceeds. While the original posting was “How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region.” I think that Zacatecas would probably be considered a “different region, than Lake Chapala, would it not? I think that while the Lake Chapala area would indeed probably be considered a different region, so are the areas that Moisheh travels in as well. I follow his posts and he certainly has a recent comprehensive viewpoint of many regions that maybe most of us do not as his frequency of travel shows. He is an RV’er and that again is one different set of economic possibilities than is General Tourism as a whole, but none the less still a factor and a large one at that. Similarly Lake Chapala offers yet a different set of factors to the general “tourism” (original question) still an equally if not different as a factor to be considered.
So let the posting run it’s course and after all the different factors are in, maybe a realistic summation of tourism as a whole in Mexico will show itself. Thanks Jerezano for the posting. I for one will wait to form an opinion.

robt65

Mar 22, 2011, 6:10 PM

Post #30 of 66 (1165 views)

Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Since David brought up our change in travel methods, I think many have made modifications to their norm and maybe some might define us as worry-worts. I do know that David and his wife have attended the LPGA Golf Tournament in Morelia in years past. Because of security concerns, that event will not be held this year. I would speculate that this cancellation has had a negative impact on the tourist revenue in Morelia.

Robt65's point that both the San Miguel de Allende and Lake Chapala areas are somewhat unique microcosms is well taken and very valid! However, when one does some digging below the "smokescreen", they haven't been without problems and there is certainly no evidence that they are immune from possible future problems on a larger scale. At this point, it would be pure speculation to predict either way.

Going back to the point being made about RV's, I would have to say it makes perfect sense to me that the RV'ers with large expensive motorhomes or those with fifth wheels might just be hesitant to take them into problematic areas. Large target with trouble getting out of the way. Should the spiraling energy costs keep heading upwards NOB, Mexico may become more attractive with their controlled fuel costs.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Mar 22, 2011, 6:13 PM

Post #31 of 66 (1164 views)

Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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There seem to be sectors that have been devastated and sectors that are booming. It seems to be that any "driving" destination is hurting. The RV industry is hurting. Another sector that is hurting is the day crossings along the border. Those cities that are now war zones and nearly devoid of visitors and night life were once bustling shopping zones.

Mar 22, 2011, 7:15 PM

Post #32 of 66 (1146 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello reefhound,

Another excellent point and excellent demographic. "Border towns" Of course, why didn't I think of that? Probably the same reason that David HF didn't relate to "RV'ers", but did to "snowbirds" . . . . . . . I didn't relate to that factor personally (except to get through the government hoops) coming into Mexico and getting through there unscathed. That for sure is another whole and large region. Reason why it is a factor notwithstanding . . . . . . still a very valid factor. It seems that there is not one single factor, but that many factors are intertwined along with the basic, (as this post stated) Narco factor. At least that's the way I am starting to see it . . . . . certainly a different view than I originally thought I would. I do know that every trip I take one way or the other . . . . . the "Black Bean" theory comes to my mind, prayers are more frequent and other personal changes occur during that trip, until 1. either I am safely home with my family or 2. I am safely back across NOB.

Travel well

robt65

Mar 22, 2011, 7:19 PM

Post #33 of 66 (1142 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The Reef's point is good and he made it more succinctly than my attempt; folks who normally would drive to Mexico have backed off. The question posited by the OP was, "How the narco violence is affecting tourism in MY region." My reply was based on my observance of "snowbird" activity in MY region, Lake Chapala, and it's up. I also cited comments made by the Secretariat of Tourism concerning tourism in general, it's up too. Whether or not Lake Chapala, SMA, or any other region are in any way "unique" is beside the point, every area is unique but all areas are not tourist destinations.

Mar 22, 2011, 8:19 PM

Post #34 of 66 (1127 views)

Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I'd love to see a cite for the tourist figures you are quoting. Having a home on the Jalisco coast and knowing many involved in the tourist industry from Manzanillo to PV, I know for a fact that tourism was worse this year than last.

I have made 5 trips to the coast since the first of the year and there is no way I will believe a Secretary's stats. I detect "spin" to deflect the heavily negative publicity the country has been getting recently.

Mar 22, 2011, 9:02 PM

Post #35 of 66 (1115 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Not sure what the point in providing references is when you say upfront you aren't going to believe the stats from the Secretariat. Anyway, best I could find, for whatever it's worth, is this PDF document where the numbers for 2010 are not complete but through 3 quarters the Year To Date shows Mexico (number 10 on the chart) up 7.2% over 2009, with third quarter up 15% over 2009 Q3.

When you say "worse this year" do you mean so far in 2011 or the totals for 2010?

tashby

Mar 22, 2011, 9:44 PM

Post #36 of 66 (1107 views)

Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Quote

The question posited by the OP was, "How the narco violence is affecting tourism in MY region." My reply was based on my observance of "snowbird" activity in MY region, Lake Chapala, and it's up.

Seems the opposite to me, but I've only lived here three years, so what do I know. Just about everybody I talk to in the Lake Chapala area says tourism is down, and that this year there are somewhat fewer Canadians than normal, and a LOT fewer from the U.S., even compared to last year. (Wasn't there that "Swine Flu" thing last year.....so year-over-year statistics would be kinda meaningless?)

Anyway, my guess is it has a less to do with the NarcoViolenceVoodoo, and a lot more to do with the crap economic environment in the U.S.

(This post was edited by tashby on Mar 22, 2011, 9:48 PM)

Mar 22, 2011, 9:47 PM

Post #37 of 66 (1102 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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T-H-I-S year. As in not last year or any other year.

Mar 22, 2011, 10:34 PM

Post #38 of 66 (1087 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello reefhound,

I think that you are quite correct. Traditionally "this year" as in regards to tourism or RV'ing, includes both the fourth quarter of one year and the first quarter of the following year. Now that maybe pretty high tech for some people to understand, but it all has to do with weather (snowbirds escaping snow and cold from the North), winter holidays, spring breaks and times of tourist influx. Since the fourth quarter of T-H-I-S year has not arrived yet some people may have only a half %$# answer.

robt65

(This post was edited by robt65 on Mar 22, 2011, 10:40 PM)

Mar 23, 2011, 5:57 AM

Post #39 of 66 (1072 views)

Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The Mexican Government has always published statistics that are innacurate. Sometimes it is because they do not have correct data and sometimes it is because they do not want the truth to be published. Even bad statistics are hard to find. Try to find the number of bus accidents in a given year. Better yet try to find he number of people killed in bus accidents in a given year. Just 3 months ago El Imparcial had one article with quotes from the Federal Tourism Secretary stating that tourism is up all over Mexico. On the opposing page 3 State Governors were asking the Feds to stop spending $$ on advertising tourism in MEXICO. They felt that using the word Mexico was the cause of the lack of tourism ( bad reputation). Rather they wanted the Feds to use the names of the states, regions or cities. Reading these articles who do you believe? Is tourism up or down? It is probable that tourism by Mexicans is up. The middle class is doing quite well and they are able to travel and have a good time. But are Americans and Canadians flocking to Mexico as before? I doubt it. Cruise ships have canceled stops in Maz. due to violence ( or the fear of violence). This has been on again and off again. If you were Calderon would you admit that the vioilence has affected tourism when you are also stating that you have won the war on drugs? Calderon even asked newspapers to focus on something other than violence as it has affected the image of Mexico. Very little of what is happening is ever published. Perhpas due to fear of the cartels or maybe fear of the Gov.? Without a proper press the truth is suppresed. Without these truths how can statistics be trusted?

Moisheh

(This post was edited by Moisheh on Mar 23, 2011, 6:13 AM)

Mar 23, 2011, 6:08 AM

Post #40 of 66 (1065 views)

Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The OP asked how tourism is being affected in your area. Do you have an opinion based on present reality to post or are you just attempting a lame dig?

And regardless, tourism last December (2010, if that makes you happy), usually one of the busiest months of the year, was way down in this part of Mexico.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 23, 2011, 6:11 AM)

Mar 23, 2011, 6:16 AM

Post #41 of 66 (1059 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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GEE Bennie: What is your problem? When people posted opinions you wanted statistics. Now you are asking for opinions???

Moisheh

Mar 23, 2011, 6:27 AM

Post #42 of 66 (1053 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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What is your problem? He hasn't offered either, has he?

And I didn't ask David (not reefer or robt) for the stats as some sort of proof of present tourism levels but just to see what BS the Tourism Secretary is trying to fool people with.

Stats or no stats, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many people saying tourism is up this year.

Mar 23, 2011, 7:26 AM

Post #43 of 66 (1043 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Not saying that I am or am not buying into this story but I thought it is relative to this current discussion:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...med-by-violence.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Mar 23, 2011, 7:56 AM

Post #44 of 66 (1035 views)

Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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An article on the General from today's Borderland Beat:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...chief-of-public.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Mar 23, 2011, 8:22 AM

Post #45 of 66 (1025 views)

Re: [chinagringo] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Bennie: I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were doubting that tourism had dropped.

Moisheh

Mar 23, 2011, 9:04 AM

Post #46 of 66 (998 views)

Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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"It is probable that tourism by Mexicans is up."

I think it's just the opposite. It's the destinations mainly visited by foreigners (i.e. Cancun, Coz, Cabo) that are reportedly booming and the destinations mainly visited by nationals (i.e. Acapulco) that are suffering.

Seeing as we have not even reached the end of Q1 in 2011 and few stats have been compiled, it seems premature to be drawing conclusions about 2011. I would never put all my faith into stats by the Mexican (or U.S.) government, I simply tossed out what I had found for people to do with as they please. I think swine flu was in 2009, not last year.

Mar 23, 2011, 11:13 AM

Post #47 of 66 (967 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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[reply
It's the destinations mainly visited by foreigners (i.e. Cancun, Coz, Cabo) that are reportedly booming .......

How about showing us some of these reports on the "booming" tourist numbers?

tonyburton

Mar 23, 2011, 11:17 AM

Post #48 of 66 (961 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Everything is relative.
The main reason tourism has been up in 2010 and the start of 2001 is because it was so far down in 2008-9.

Mar 23, 2011, 11:26 AM

Post #49 of 66 (955 views)

Re: [tonyburton] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Who says it is up? This article certainly doesn't.

http://www.noticaribe.com.mx/...akers-en-mexico.html

"Ludwig Estrada, director de Turismo de la Secretaría de Turismo de Jalisco, reconoció que este año sí se ha resentido una baja en la llegada de viajeros estadounidenses."

Mar 23, 2011, 11:51 AM

Post #50 of 66 (949 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Bennie .
It is very difficult if not impossible at times to follow your train of thought and expression. In your post of Mar 23, 2011 - 6:27 AM - Post #42 of 46, you state “What is your problem? He hasn't offered either, has he?” I think but I am not sure if you are referring to the previous post to yours #42 of 46 of if you are referring to the OP post # 1 in which I believe that Jerezano clearly states in his OP a stat regarding hotel occupancy backed up by a link . Of course it was also clearly stated in the OP’s post that it was a hotel stat and nothing else.
If you are referring to my posting of an opinion, I clearly stated Mar 22, 2011, 4:54 PM - Post #29 of 46 (207 views)
“So let the posting run its course and after all the different factors are in, maybe a realistic summation of tourism as a whole in Mexico will show itself. Thanks Jerezano for the posting. I for one will wait to form an educated opinion.”
I for one believe there are too many personal opinions and not enough fact either backed up by links or the fact that as others I believe the “facts” as reported by the various Mexican government departments are not creditable. To see television live photos during Spring Breaks that actually show hotel and restaurant staff waiting around with their hands in their pockets during lunch and dinner times and empty guest parking lots empty at night say a lot. When you actually hear the restaurant employees and owners state they are very low in attendance of not only American and Canadian tourists but also of Mexican tourists . . . . . well a picture is worth a thousand words. The OP gave a select example of Hotel stats.
Many on this post have given their opinions based upon more than only hotel stats. Some are generalizing and some are listing NOB tourists and some Mexican tourists. I have my personal thoughts that I think it is probable that tourism is way down but I certainly have no facts of any kind to back up those personal thoughts.
“Unsubstantiated personal thoughts” in my opinion, do not form a valid opinion and can only serve to continue to frighten away people or potential tourists. I think that we all need to better our own reply's and present more qualified answers WITH appropriate links to be taken seriously. There are many different "reports and he said she said going on here with out reliable links it is impossible to form a valid opinion.

Robt65

Mar 23, 2011, 3:13 PM

Post #51 of 66 (2354 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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"How about showing us some of these reports on the "booming" tourist numbers?"

MILWAUKEE, March 7, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Funjet Vacations announced today that statistics released by the Mexico Tourism Board show a surge in travel from Texas to the country's top beach destinations and resort areas. Despite a continued stream of negative media coverage, over 253,000 travelers visited Mexico from Texas in December and 210,000 in January compared to 224,000 and 196,000 in the previous year, respectively.

"The number of people flying out of Texas cities into Mexico is up 12 percent from last year, and December saw the most travelers for that month in a decade," said Mike Going, president of Funjet Vacations. "Year-after-year Mexico remains a top travel destination for both Funjet Vacations and the Texas market and we are optimistic about the forecast for 2011. We believe properly informed consumers will continue to desire the unique vacation experiences that only Mexico can offer."

The increase in tourism from Texas has been seen most prominently in top beach destinations and resort areas, including Cancun, Cozumel, Los Cabos, Puerto Vallarta and Riviera Maya, which are located in the southeast and southwest regions of the country.
Funjet Vacations Announces Surge in Travel From Texas to Mexico -- MILWAUKEE, March 7, 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Mar 23, 2011, 3:14 PM)

Mar 23, 2011, 4:16 PM

Post #52 of 66 (2333 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Limited in scope and based on the Tourism Secretary's numbers for visitors from one state. Very convincing.

ken_in_dfw

Mar 23, 2011, 5:55 PM

Post #53 of 66 (2317 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hey Bennie, you've been pretty good at shooting down facts that others are bringing to the discussion. How about you providing some externally verifiable (as in a hyperlink) evidence to back up your side of the argument?

Mar 23, 2011, 6:15 PM

Post #54 of 66 (2309 views)

Re: [ken_in_dfw] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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If you can read Spanish then just click on the linky dinky I posted a few messages above. You see, that article directly quotes a Tourism official, unlike reefer's that quotes an airline or tour company that quotes another source and deals solely with tejanos visiting Mexico.

Plus I have stated my observations based on personal experiences and those of people I know in the tourist business on the Jalisco coast. Again, unlike some others, I am not offering opinions based solely on what I can find on Google while sitting at a computer in Texas. I was actually in Barra de Navidad for a few days last week with an afternoon spent in Manzanillo.

Been to the coast a number of times since the first of the year and also spent part of the Xmas 2010 vacation there. Last Thursday the Hotel Barra de Navidad had exactly 4 of 60 rooms occupied. The trailer park on the beach in Melaque is nearly deserted.

My mother in law owns 8 condo rentals on the beach there. She has had vacancies all year. That has never happened since she built them in the early 80's.

tonyburton

Mar 23, 2011, 6:27 PM

Post #55 of 66 (2302 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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1. The article you link to is one person's "projection" and is not a solid source of data.

2. The most reliable statistics for international tourism are those collated by the World Tourism Organization.
http://unwto.org/

For Mexico, the numbers of "International Tourist Arrivals", followed by the value of "International Tourism Receipts" for the years 2007-2010 inclusive are as follows [for methodology see the WTO site]:

2007: 21,370,000
12.852 billion US dollars

2008: 22.,637,000
13.289 billion US dollars
[http://www.unwto.org/...ghlights10_en_HR.pdf]

2009: 21,454,000
11.275 billion US dollars

2010 (Preliminary WTO stats; the definitive stats are scheduled for release later this year).
22,400,000 international tourists
11.8 billion US dollars

ken_in_dfw

Mar 23, 2011, 6:30 PM

Post #56 of 66 (2300 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Aah, sorry about that Benny. In my speed reading down through this very long thread, I missed that post of yours.

And your point about direct observation, rather than just relying on the Internet for one's information, is well taken.

I did note in the article you linked that the Jalisco Director of Tourism said that visits by North Americans were not just down due to the alerts by U.S. and U.S. state officials, but also because there are less flights going to Mexico. This gets back to a point that I have made before: it's becoming a LOT harder to get to Mexico - or anywhere else for that matter. And the other side of that coin is that flights are fewer because the economy has been so bad. The big corporate-owned media in the U.S. like to pretend that the Great Depression II (I refuse to call it a "recession") is over, when in fact, for the average Joe in middle U.S.A., it is not. No money = no travel. This is a problem that tourism-based economies are confronting all over, not just Mexico.

Mar 23, 2011, 6:30 PM

Post #57 of 66 (2298 views)

Re: [tonyburton] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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And all of them say jack &%#" about tourism in 2011.

For the aficionados of Google results there are innumerous reports on the huge drop off of spring breakers throughout the country. More of an up close and personal perspective than an international statistics gatherer.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 23, 2011, 6:34 PM)

tonyburton

Mar 23, 2011, 6:37 PM

Post #58 of 66 (2294 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Try http://datatur.sectur.gob.mx/...semana/sem082011.pdf and comparable data for previous years and see for yourself.

Mar 23, 2011, 7:09 PM

Post #59 of 66 (2288 views)

Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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While this comment in not directed directly at Bennie (because of the link) - doesn't everyone responding realize that quoted statistics from various sources can often prove a point when one digs long and hard enough? Statistics are wonderful to make a point but there is rarely a case when one cannot find something to prove their point! Bennie's first person report appears to have more validity at least to this reader. Logic and common sense tells me that no matter what some agency or resident expresses, the situation as a whole in Mexico cannot possibly be positive with maybe a few exceptions. In fact, I was reading an article in our local paper about a week ago about the new FOXCONN plant built in San Jeronimo just across the border from Santa Teresa, NM. At 1.5M square feet, they apparently are cranking out 30,000 computers per day according to the article. While this is certainly a positive for Mexico, it doesn't relate to an increase or decrease in tourism.

I do know from talking to our suppliers that traffic is down from US buyers and that their export business is way down.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Poncho32

Mar 24, 2011, 5:21 PM

Post #60 of 66 (2233 views)

Re: [jerezano] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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My response is only our personal observation of what we have seen.In traveling Mexico 15 South from Nogales to Puerto Vallarta this year we were amazed of the lack of American or Canadian vehicles moving either South or North bound,the total number we observed were less than 10 .
Here in Vallarta we live right next to Mexico 15 South of town ,we have been here since November 13th and I have only seen two motor home caravans this year going by.
In town at night time at the popular restaurants they are fairly busy and have been since the turn of the year,prior to that they were dead.
With a population here in Vallarta of 350,000 there is bound to be problems of one kind or the other but the happenings are being kept pretty much under raps.

Mar 24, 2011, 5:43 PM

Post #61 of 66 (2221 views)

Re: [Poncho32] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Poncho32:

As one who studies Mexican media reports from all over MX, I would have to agree that somehow they manage to keep reports out of the PV area very much under wraps. On top of these actions, I observe a real hush hush attitude on the PV Forum. Since it appears that PV is one of the few areas that seems to be holding their own with visits, maybe that is a good thing?

All one has to do is observe what is happening in Mazatlan to realize just how bad things can be. To my way of thinking, no amount of denial and minimizing can convince me that there are not serious problems in the Mazatlan area. Why? Because the news that does get out seems to contradict the other attitudes. Just one person's opinion and I don't have: a dog in the fight!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

surebought

Mar 25, 2011, 11:18 AM

Post #62 of 66 (2144 views)

Re: [chinagringo] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I closed a store that was open for 22 years in Ensenada last June. We didn't even want to stay open for the summer because it looked like it was going from bad to nothing. The People who stayed open for the summer of 2010, told me that it was getting worse. Now they are saying after Presidents day that it is getting a little bit better. But I still am seeing stores with a lot of history closing down. The Narco terrorism, I think, is just one of many factors that are affecting Tourism. The Great Recession in the US is at least an equal factor in my opinion. Inflation is another. Mexico has to look like it's a steal price wise, but lately prices are nearly the same as in the US in many areas. I am selling nearly everything they sold in the Curio Stores on the internet right now. There is no need to be a Tourist to buy souvenirs. I am fortunate in that I switched quickly into the Maquilladora end of things which is doing okay here. A lot of the sewing types of businesses are coming back from China. You can set up your own company pretty easy here and control everything. In China, you don't have the same control and the turn around is a lot longer in China and that's important with Clothing. I am much more active on Facebook. Here is a link.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1142737625

Poncho32

Mar 26, 2011, 8:48 AM

Post #63 of 66 (2053 views)

Re: [chinagringo] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The statement where you state
(Because the news that does get out seems to contradict the other attitudes.)

I must state in the 41 years living here in Vallarta for 4-6 months a year we have witnessed a
huge number of changes year by year.
Over that same period of time it is amassing how well the head of tour-ism and local government has kept a lid on the crime happenings here.

We know a lot of the local business owners here and they are hurting.
If the cruise ships stop coming here as they have in other ports in Mexico this town will lose a ton of business over night.

There is little doubt that the drug cartel along with the world recession is what is really hurting Mexico.
The recession will sub side in the next 3-4 years if the economy world wide continues to grow as it is now.
That said here in Mexico things are not going to change for their economy
unless their government makes some drastic changes.

The bottom line is that the drug problem will not go away until the profit is taken out of it.

It is always easy to be a side walk superintendent and set on the side lines and make stab opinion on how to solve some ones problem, but it would appear that Mexico could go a long way to solve their problem by first,
changing their taxing to even out their playing field and strengthen their economic base.
Next think seriously about about legalizing drugs.

One can dream.

Mar 27, 2011, 1:01 PM

Post #64 of 66 (1967 views)

Re: [tonyburton] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I agree that my link/stats dealing with visitors from Texas is limited in scope. Just as visits by spring breakers, not only a narrow demographic but seasonal one as well, is limited in scope. I am not trying to out duel anyone on statistics. There are few comprehensive stats that satisfy everyone but all of those presented so far make up pieces of the puzzle.

First hand observation is another piece and I do not claim to have such this year, although I was in Cozumel and Riviera Maya twice last year as well as tourist sites like Teotihuacan and Media Luna. Still, when you are dealing with numbers in the tens of millions across thousands of miles, you can never see the whole picture from first hand observation. There's a reason governments and corporations make strategic decisions based on aggregate data rather than relying solely on site visits.

arbon

Mar 27, 2011, 1:20 PM

Post #65 of 66 (1959 views)

Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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There are stats' that become available on the web dealing with the amount of jet fuel used/delivered at all the air ports.

The one I remember that was close to normal was Cancun.

Reports back from family visitors, in PV was busy but North of PV was empty last Xmas school holiday, compared to the year before.
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Mar 28, 2011, 6:03 PM

Post #66 of 66 (1874 views)