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robt65

Jul 15, 2010, 12:20 PM

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Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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I was reading a little Mexican History today and came across this . . . . . "The Irish division was known as Los San Patricios, or "Those of Saint Patrick." It participated in all the major battles of the war and was cited for bravery by General López de Santa Anna, the Mexican Commander in Chief and President. At the penultimate battle of the war, these Irishmen fought until their ammunition was exhausted, and even then tore down the white flag raised by their Mexican comrades, preferring to struggle on with bayonets. Despite their brave resistance, 85 of the Irish battalion were captured and sentenced to bizarre tortures and deaths at the hands of the Americans, resulting in what is considered even today as the "largest hanging affair in North America."(5) The event had a profound effect in Mexico. Since then, many authors have written novels and history books about the subject and monuments and statues honoring Los Patricios have been erected in major Mexican cities. Movies have been filmed and even special dates have been marked on the Mexican calendar, to commemorate Irish aid."

"The battle influenced Mexico in such a way that it has become a critical development in the official version of Mexico's history. Every year, September 12 is remembered and celebrated. Recently, after 150 years, Mexico remembered the St. Patrick's Battalion with full military honors at the Plaza San Jacinto. A military band even performed the Mexican and Irish national anthems.(6) In 1993, the Irish began their own ceremony to honor the San Patricios in Clifden, Galway."

Edited for spelling in thread title.

I had no idea! http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/irish.html How does one say "Éire go Brách" in Spanish?

Robt65

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 9:59 AM)

Brian

Jul 15, 2010, 2:20 PM

Post #2 of 32 (4829 views)

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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See if you find the movie "One man's Hero" starring Tom Berenger. It's not academy awards worthy but it is, from what I understand, a representative description of the story. As a Roman Catholic, I can just imagine those fellows attending the same church as the mexicans and reassessing their values. Not unlike Cassius Clay's immortal words. "I ain't got no quarrel with no Viet Cong".

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:00 AM)

Papirex

Jul 15, 2010, 2:36 PM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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The San Patricios Were no doubt brave men. But originally, They were members of The American Army. When they witnessed many members of the American Army Willfully destroying Catholic churches and shrines, and committing atrocities against Catholics, particularly against nuns and priests, they deserted and joined The Mexican Army. That is the reason they were court-martial ed by The American Army after the war ended.

Yes, some of the sentences imposed would be illegal and considered inhumane today, such as branding.

It remains a sad chapter in the history of The USA, but it isn't what it appears to be at first glance.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:02 AM)

chicois8

Jul 15, 2010, 3:09 PM

Post #4 of 32 (4799 views)

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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I believe they are remembered or honored every St. Patty's Day in SMA...

P.S. That same day there is Irish Hurling through out downtown.........paz

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:03 AM)

robt65

Jul 15, 2010, 3:38 PM

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Re: [Papirex] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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Hi Rex,

You wrote. . . "It remains a sad chapter in the history of The USA, but it isn't what it appears to be at first glance".

I have just finished reading this piece of history and at first, second or third glance it appears exactly as it was - torture and the "largest hanging affair in North America." time never seems to change the "reasons" war is fought. We Irish will always be fighting our holy ways and the Americans will always be fighting the $ wars whether it be in the name of land, such as this one over the offer to purchase Arizona and Texas, then apparently when we couldn't buy it we just said to hell with it . . . let's take it! Or for oil or for world superiority economically.

Robt65

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:02 AM)

robt65

Jul 15, 2010, 3:46 PM

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Re: [chicois8] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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Hi chicois8,

Do you mean that they play it in the streets like we would a pick up game of hockey or do they go to the parks and play itat differrent parks in town? If they are playing in the streets that ought to hurt like hell! Have you ever seen a hurley? I makes a la crosse stick look like kindergarten and made out of very hard and unforgiving wood too! No shin or other guards either. That's one rough nasty game, if you can call it a game! Sure hope those folks where they play in the streets (if they do play there) have a good set of shutters for their windows! (smiling)

Robt65.

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:04 AM)

macanri2002

Jul 15, 2010, 7:14 PM

Post #7 of 32 (4732 views)

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hi Guys, thanks for the nice write ups on the Irish Soldiers who fought bravely with the Mexican Army, Here is another side to that story...........When the Irish Soldiers lined up to march forward to "fight" the enemy, they often marched to the same Music, on both sides, were the Pipers playing Irish Marching tunes...............On another note, any Irish living in GTO.....Leon..............Erin Go Braigh....Macanri

robt65

Jul 15, 2010, 7:24 PM

Post #8 of 32 (4724 views)

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Re: [macanri2002] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hi Macanri,

Ya gotta be Irish! That is very interesting about the marching to the irish music. I have not sen anywherre if they actually had the pipes or not, but if they did I bet that scared the hell out of the Yanks!

I am the very proud Papa of a little Mexi - Irlanda - Gringa! I think I'll coin that! She has beautiful ivory skin with auburn hair and deep blue eyes.

Robt65

richmx2

Jul 15, 2010, 9:24 PM

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Re: [Brian] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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Irishmen! Listen to the words of your brothers, hear the accents of Catholic people . . . Is religion no longer the strongest of human bonds? . . . Can you fight by the side of those who set fire to your temples in Boston and Philadelphia? Are Catholic Irishmen to be the destroyers of Catholic temples, the murderers of Catholic priests . . ? Come over to us; you will be received under the laws of that truly Christian hospitality and good faith which Irish guests are entitled to expect and obtain from a Catholic nation . . .May Mexicans and Irishmen, united by the sacred tie of religion and benevolence, form only one people.Supposedly written by Capitán John Riley and distributed to U.S. soldiers by Mexican intelligence during the Intervention. The Boston and Philadelphia references were to the "tea baggers" and "minutemen" of the time, who had burned down Catholic Churches in those cities, the most widely reported anti-immigrant activities, rather common at the time. Catholics were seen in the U.S. much as Muslims are today.

And besides, think about it. Ireland and Mexico: traditionally agrarian Catholic nations bedevilled by English-speaking Protestants who move in... and stay... and suck the life out of their economy. And take chunks of the country... AND then have the chutzpah to complain bitterly about those forced to move into the occupying nation to find work and support their families.

By the way, the monument to the San Patricios at Plaza San Jacinto in San Angél is the scene of a wreath laying, bag-pipe playing ceremony every Saint Patrick's Day. And in Clifden, County Galway, the Irish National Guard plays the Himno Nacional and lays a wreath at the birthplace of Capitán Riley every 16th of September.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:01 AM)

slainte39

Jul 16, 2010, 12:00 AM

Post #10 of 32 (4694 views)

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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In answer to your question "Erin go bragh" in Spanish would be "Irlanda por siempre". It is a patrotic cry or shout, much like "Viva Mexico" or "God Save the Queen"--not used or said much in Ireland anymore--more to be found on banners displayed in the NYC parade on St. Patrick's Day.
Most of the information on the previous posts is fairly accurate, except that I doubt either side had bagpipers, less so on the U.S. side and probably not on the Mexican side either. The difference between those who were punished by branding and those by hanging depended on when they deserted the US army. Those, such as John Riley, who deserted prior to the declaration of war, were charged with desertion in peacetime and those, of course, who deserted after the declaration of war were punished much more harshly--hanging.
Basically, religion was the agitation point, as most all of the CO's were protestant and not very tolerant of the Irish Catholic new enlistees who were swarming off the boats from Boston to New Orleans escaping the An Gorta Mor (the great famine) of the 1840's in Ireland. In a six year period, a million and a half emigrants left Ireland, mostly for the US, some to Canada, Australia, and other parts of the world--the Irish Diaspara.
The reason the "San Patricios" did not want to surrender in battle--they knew what fate awaited them if they were captured--and it would not be POW status. Better to go out in a blaze of glory than have your neck stretched in humiliation--a typical Irish solution to an unsolvable problem.
John Riley was from Clifden, Connamara, County Galway and that is why they have the annual celebration in that city. A couple of years ago they erected a statue to him in Clifden. It is not known for sure what happened to Riley--some say he lived on in Mexico and died here, others in Galway say he returned to Connemara--nobody knows for sure. Part of my family is from Galway and romantically they like to think he died on Irish soil.
The Irish-Mexican story has many more facets than just this one incident in history and is on-going making us of dual ethnicity proud of both countries.

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 4:22 AM

Post #11 of 32 (4685 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricios"

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You draw a very good analogy as " the Catholics were seen in the U.S. much as Muslims are today." I had not looked at it in that perspective but as I searched and read much more into the wee hours of the night last night, I agree with your analogy. Ironic, isn't it, how now, hundreds of years later the now American Catholics (and others) are looking at the Mexicans immigration into the USA in the same light. . . . . taking all the jobs etc. History seems to have been forgotten . . . . . .
Interesting

Robt65

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 27, 2010, 10:01 AM)

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 4:58 AM

Post #12 of 32 (4675 views)

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Re: [slainte39] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Morning slainte39,

in answer to your translation for me, I thank you. While being very familiar with the patriotic cry "Éire go Brách" (I use the Gallic version), I was not positive how to translate it into Spanish. I can't imagine not a piper in the crowd. My grandparents came to Canada to live a better life and adventure, after the great famine of the 1840's (don't we all go to another country for similar reasons) even they (both mother and fathers families) brought their pipes as well as the family tartan and shield.

I am amazed there wasn't more of the tangible history saved in those affected parts of Texas. Today I see much evidence of the Chinese, Russian, German and other ethnic groups in different parts of Mexico, but apparently not much at all in the way of the "well loved Irish" in a specific section of Mexico, as in the previously mentioned groups. I wonder why?

robt65

gpkgto

Jul 16, 2010, 5:29 AM

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Re: [macanri2002] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Not Leon, but in Irapuato an Irishman (and his Mexican wife) own an English school called CEDIN. He's a great gut--likes to talk about James the Shit. Also, we have a Kerry (an Irish company) plant here--they make food flavorings. At least a few Irish people work there--I've met one.

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 8:49 AM

Post #14 of 32 (4635 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hi gpkgto,

That's interesting. I wonder if any other posters know of any other enclaves of Mexican - Irish or Irish sections of Mexico.

Robt65

mazatman

Jul 16, 2010, 9:37 AM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hi all,

I live near the side-by-side towns of San Patricio-Melaque in Jalisco. I had always presumed that San Partricio was named for "Los Patricos" and that the name Melaque sounded a lot like the Irish Malachy. Does anyone know if there was a "Patricio" named Malachy for whom this town was named?

Sláinte

slainte39

Jul 16, 2010, 10:58 AM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Dia duit --- robt65

Always glad to see someone take an interest in things Irish. In the Lake Chapala area of Mexico there is an organization called the Irish Society of Mexico that you can contact by their email address--irishsocietymx@yahoo.com--a social club.

During the Mexican-American War, I can't say with certainty that there was or was not "pipers"--it just seemed unlikely as most of these Irish recruits were famine survivors and they were dropping like flies on the roads to the embarkation ports such as Cork, Limerick, Galway, et.al. In addition to the million and a half that left Ireland, another two million (approx.), starved to death. These were the poorest of the poor. The only people with crest, shields, tartans, bagpipes, etc., would have been the "ascendancy" families or old Norman-Irish and even older Celtic, so called "royalty" families. My people came from Donegal, Galway, Clare, and Limerick, and only from one of these families can I trace a "coat of arms". Of course these genealogy societies can be quite creative when you pay them a fee for research.
These US army recruits in 1845-46, would have been famine people--not normal immigrants just seeking a better life with better paying jobs, living conditions, and the usual things that take people from one area to another. The Irish that came later would fit that description.
It is ironic that many of the Irish immigrants and their descendants in the US evolved politically from almost Democratic party "socialists" to country club Republican party "conservatives", in a few generations--or as my father's favorite expression about them-- "they forgot where they came from". I'm not taking sides in any political debate.
Two very well written books about the the San Patricios, if you would like to pursue the subject further are:
1--"The Irish Soldiers of Mexico" by Dr. Michael Hogan--a resident of Guadalajara. He also was the historical advisor for the movie "One Man's Hero" starring Tom Berenguer.
2--"Shamrock and Sword" by Robert Ryal Miller--Professor Emeritus of History at California State University, Hayward CA

As far as I know the bagpipes have never been US army regulation musical equiptment--not even for the "Fighting 69th"--the famous Irish regiment of WWI.

Have enjoyed this discussion about the Irish and the San Patricios

Slan
Daithi Mac Giolla Meidhre (my name in Gaeilge)

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 11:03 AM

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Re: [slainte39] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hi Stan,

My grand parents came from the County Cork. Name used to be (many years ago) spelled O" Tierneigh. Thanks for the book titles. I willl indeed look into them. I have enjoyed this also.

Robt65

slainte39

Jul 16, 2010, 11:49 AM

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Re: [mazatman] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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About the naming of the community in San Patricio-Melaque--I would sooner believe it was named after St. Patrick, one of the three patron saints of Ireland, that brought christianity to the island as opposed to the "St. Patrick's Battalion" of 1846-47 Mexican-American War. Most of the cities and villages in Mexico, and their names, predate the war era--unless the name was changed after the war--don't know as I don't live there. Ask some of the old timers or check with the parish priest, they could probably tell you.
In reviewing the list of about 200 "known" names of the S.P. Battalion in the appendix of the "Shamrock and Sword" gleaned from Mexican military records, I do not find any with the name of Malachy. The roster does include soldiers from about a dozen countries, including some born in the US, but the vast majority are Irish born. The CO's are mostly Mexican, but with a few foreigners at that level of rank, including Riley, who was the highest commissioned foreign born officer with the rank of major.

Slan

richmx2

Jul 16, 2010, 12:08 PM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Irish names are not at all uncommon in Mexico, although usually Hispancized -- "Morfín" (Murphy), for example. Some say Obregón was once O'Brian, but that's a stretch. Anyway, when people talk about the Irish, and other Europeans, heading for "America", it wasn't always the United States of... that was the destination. The Irish assimilated pretty well into Mexican society. You must remember that much of the Irish aristocracy had gone to Spain after the loss of the country to the English, and up until the 19th century, what Irish Catholic aristos still survived sent their children to Spain or France for their education.

One error above has Riley sort of disappearing after the U.S. withdrawal, which isn't true. The San Patricios -- the survivors and new recruits, including U.S. soldiers who stayed behind after the withdrawal -- were still an army unit, serving garrison duty in Guanajuanto. Riley himself died in 1850 and is buried in Veracruz. Exactly where in Veracruz, I'm not sure.

A plug, if I may, for the Society for Irish Latin American Studies (SILAS). I was asked to add two entries to their on-going "Dictionary of Irish Latin American Biography" -- one on Riley and one on Pedro O'Crowley, a Spanish merchant (from one of those Irish aristo families that prospered in Spain) who traveled throughout Northern Mexico (and today's Arizona) in the 18th century and wrote what's probably the first tour guide to the region. Hey, if they're open to flaky researchers like me, there's an opening for those of you with the time and skills to delve into these matters... Right now, most of the entries are for Argentine-Irish, but Mexico being the sixth largest nation for the Irish diaspora, there's plenty of work to be done.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 12:35 PM

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Re: [richmx2] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Hey richmx2,

Thanks for the information . . . You wrote . . . Irish names are not at all uncommon in Mexico, although usually Hispancized -- "Morfín" (Murphy), for example. Some say Obregón was once O'Brian, but that's a stretch. Maybe you might want to read . . . . "On the diplomatic front, Mexico recently opened an Embassy in Dublin, while Ireland has an Honorary Consul, Romulo O'Farrill Jr. Owner of several newspapers and a member of one of Mexico's most powerful families, O'Farrill is a good example of Irish names in prominent places. Only a few towns in Mexico lack a street named O'Brien, which, later on, became the Spanish "Obregón." There's also an "O'Brien City," better known as Ciudad Obregón, in the northern state of Sonora." http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/irish.html

Quite interesting. From my own limited knowledge history of Irish ancestory and Irish Histoy. . . . way, way back when The Celts came to Ireland from several parts of what is today Spain and Portugal (possibly hence the term "the Black Irish".

“The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age. said McEvoy. They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Its not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts invading Ireland. We have a much older genetic legacy."

The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

"A study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed."

"The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary)."

"They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa." The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

You said . . . . "You must remember that much of the Irish aristocracy had gone to Spain after the loss of the country to the English, and up until the 19th century, what Irish Catholic aristos still survived sent their children to Spain or France for their education."

Maybe the above information would explain why Spain was chosen as a preference for sending their children to Spain for their education. Interesting.

Robt65

richmx2

Jul 16, 2010, 2:01 PM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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A lot of the Spanish-Irish connection has to do with the Spanish Hapsburgs being "Their Most Catholic Majesties" as opposed to the English Tutors "Defender of the (Protestant) Faith". The last Viceroy was an O'Donaju and Irish names among the Spanish aristocracy aren't all that unusual (nor are Nahautl ones, the Montezuma family also marrying into the Spanish aristocracy). For a real kicker. the ruling family of Monaco is descended not just from a Kelly (Grace), but from Porfirio Diaz.

As to "celtic" names, not all are Irish. Galacians are also Celts, and family names from Galacia sometimes look Irish.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 2:06 PM

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Re: [richmx2] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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I had no idea about the Porfirio Diaz connection. Travelers all . . . . . aren't we?!

wendy devlin

Jul 16, 2010, 5:39 PM

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Re: [slainte39] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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During the years, while hanging in the San Patricio/Melaque area, I sought out historical fact and folklore about how the place came to be named.

One story that surfaced had to do with people calling on Saint Patrick to deliver them from a natural disaster...and supposedly he delivered.
(Ask at the iglesia in Barra de Navidad, for more about that story)

San Patricio is the patron saint for San Patricio/Melaque and the yearly nine day fiesta is held around mid March in that town.
However when I stayed there over some time/years, became aware of the tension between the church and secular political elements, both competing for public crowds/money etc. during that period.

Get to know people connected to the church and people, connected to Los Toros, and you might get a passionate earful.

Also heard from another source, that there was also a timber company with Irish connections, that logged the tropical hardwoods that were once, abundant in the region. Dunno.

The above could all be....a wee bit of malarkey. Or me, just spinning old blarney:)

slainte39

Jul 16, 2010, 5:48 PM

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Re: [richmx2] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Probably, the most poignant reason the Irish clans of Ulster fled to Spain in the early 1600's, in what is known as the "Flight of the Earls" was that Spain had promised help to the O'Donnells' and the O'Neills' in their fight with England. A force of the Spanish army landed in Cork and was supposed to hook up with the Irish forces who were on the opposite side of the island--far north--and the Spanish landed in the far south. The combining of forces never happened due to all the logistical problems--and the English were prepared. I think Spain, due to their bumbling of the military operation, felt obligated to give the Irish chieftans asylum and sanctuary in return, and that along with Spain being a Catholic nation was the primary reason.
I know what you're saying about the Milesian ancestry of the ancient Celts that arrived in Ireland centuries before, but I think that had little to do with this later migration in the 1600's.
By the way have you seen the name Kennedy spelt Quennedy--I have in Spain. Another transliteration here in Mexico, is Cuen for Quinn. And Vicente Fox--well part Irish--we do get around.

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 7:12 PM

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Re: [wendy devlin] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Everytime I turn around therre is more and more interesting history in this Old Mexico. That is really interesting Wendy

Robt65

robt65

Jul 16, 2010, 7:16 PM

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Re: [slainte39] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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that certainly sounds more plausable than my therory.

Peter

Jul 16, 2010, 9:13 PM

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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From my mother's side I have a copy of my g-g-g'parent's marriage certificate uniting Nesbitt and McCrea in 1850 shortly before them crossing to go to Canada before finally settling in Arkansas. They were married in Belfast, which is... well, not exactly Ireland.

slainte39

Jul 17, 2010, 12:04 AM

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Re: [wendy devlin] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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If an Irish company depleted the hard wood forests anywhere in Mexico, it had to be after 1922, as Ireland hadn't existed as a sovereign nation for 700 years until then. It was just part of the UK, like Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are now.
Most all political and economic power was held by British politicians and British financial interests--sometimes euphemistically referred to as "Anglo-Irish". The first 50 years after independence in 1922, the Irish could barely sustain an economic system in their own country, let alone go multinational anywhere in the world. I would have see a little more evidence that logging in Mexico had any connection to Ireland--EXCEPT--maybe a national of some other country with Irish ancestry was involved.
By the way, the British/English did strip the forests of Ireland from the time of the conquest (1170) onwards to help build the great B/E navy that resulted in "Britannia rules the waves". But not all bad as it paved the way for lots of green grass and sheep AND the moniker "the Emerald Isle".

slainte39

Jul 17, 2010, 12:20 AM

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Re: [Peter] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Peter
The last four words of your post says it all---and that's what caused the death of 4,000 people over the last 30 years of the "Troubles".

Peter

Jul 17, 2010, 9:25 AM

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Re: [slainte39] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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Peter
The last four words of your post says it all---and that's what caused the death of 4,000 people over the last 30 years of the "Troubles".

My family has not been part of those struggles and events for 160 years now and it is my failing to have remained quite ignorant to those particulars.

Since a very young age before I was even aware of the "Troubles" I realized I was entering a "forbidden zone" of sorts when, while us kids were discussing family ancestry, if I were to delare that I knew of my ancestors coming to the Americas from Belfast I would suddenly find myself a hated minority in a very emotionally charged discussion.

Since I was not raised Catholic it seemed evident that I was one of the "bad guys" and for that reason did not care to find out much about why.

From my father's side of the equation I know that I am one-quarter Basque which opens another can of worms. Back to my mother's side I see I am also one-sixteenth indigenous American. That leaves my remaining quarter Swedish which here in Mexico is not especially endearing but not particularly bad.

I guess if I smelled bad deaf and blind people could hate me too.

(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 17, 2010, 9:43 AM)

slainte39

Jul 17, 2010, 1:29 PM

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Re: [Peter] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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There were a lot of "bad guys" on both sides of that problem in Northern Ireland--no one side gets to hold that distinction.
If you were born on the island of Ireland--I don't know how you wouldn't be Irish. Anyone born there, whether it be in the Republic or the North, can hold an Irish passport, regardless of your religion. There are a lot protestants in the south that are doing just fine--one protestant family that comes to mind is the Guinness family, who have sold a couple of barrells of beer over the years. Being a Catholic, I still prefer a secular government, free FROM religion--and that goes for Muslims, Christians, whatever. The post 1910-1920 revolution governments in Mexico got a little extreme in their anti-clericalism, but a lesser evil than the "Inquisition Era" of the rabidly Catholic Spanish monarchy.

zaragemca

Jul 27, 2010, 9:19 AM

Post #32 of 32 (3221 views)

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Re: [robt65] Irish and Living in Mexico - Remember the "Los Patricos"

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In reality there are a lot of stories to be told about Irish people in America. A lot of them went to Cuba and from there moved to Mexico. They helped Spain to fight the British in Cuba. I have an article which point out the 'elite of Irish' in Cuba. The name of the article is. "Zaragemca's Ph. D. in Guaguanco'. Gerry Zaragemca, is a world's known authority in Afro Cuban Percussion and Music.
International Club of Percussionists