New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

Mexico's immigration processes streamlined
http://www.relocatemagazine.com/...rocesses-streamlined

New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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The following update has been received from corporate immigration specialist Magrath LLP.
Mexico's National Migration Institute published its Manual of Criteria and Migration Procedures on 29 January 2010. The new procedures introduced in the Manual will take effect as of 1 May 2010. Some of the more prominent changes are listed below.

All forms for tourist, business and technical visitors will be replaced by a single form, to be known as the 'FMM' form
Business visitor criteria have been redefined
Consular posts will not be able to issue FM2 or FM3 booklets. They will be permitted to endorse the foreign national's passport with a single entry visa. The foreign national will then be required to obtain an FM2 or FM3 booklet from the National Migration Institute in Mexico within 30 days of arrival
The Mexican National Migration Institute will issue new FM2 and FM3 booklets
The requirement to have all change of circumstances, including change in domicile, marital status, etc, annotated on the permits will be abolished. Therefore, migrants can travel in and out of Mexico whilst a change of circumstances application is pending

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Planning for Mexico Move Blog

morgaine7

Feb 17, 2010, 3:16 PM

Post #2 of 46 (7299 views)

Re: [roni_smith] New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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I've mostly seen online references to the FMM. But I did read something about a plastic card replacing the FM2. I inquired at INM when I renewed mine in November, and they told me that for now it's just in Mexico City.

Here's another article with similar info to the one in your link:
http://www.visalawyerblog.com/...ion_attorney_23.html

Kate

Feb 23, 2010, 7:34 PM

Post #3 of 46 (6982 views)

New immigration manual

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The new INM Manual is available in Spanish here: http://www.dof.gob.mx/...amp;fecha=29/01/2010

I hope to have more to say about these changes soon.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 24, 2010, 7:22 AM

Post #4 of 46 (6933 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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First biggie -- FM3 holders can no longer get a 50% reduction in required income by owning home. That reduction now applies only to FM2 folks.

More to come....

Rolly Pirate

Tab

Feb 24, 2010, 11:38 AM

Post #5 of 46 (6876 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Wow that is a biggy! It really surprises me that at a time like this they want to actually make it more difficult for expats to live in Mexico and spend money in their economy. So the current FM3 financial requirement is now $1000/month and $500 for a dependant with no exceptions? Correct?

Feb 24, 2010, 12:18 PM

Post #6 of 46 (6862 views)

Re: [Tab] New immigration manual

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The official income requirement for an FM3 is not US$1,000, although some consulates do still accept that amount. The official amount for 2010 is $14,365 pesos. At an exchange rate of 12.5 to 1, that would be about US$1,150.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 24, 2010, 5:38 PM

Post #7 of 46 (6728 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Rolly, can you tell me in what section that is found? - That owning house will not reduce the requirement. If that is true, we will be in trouble. As I shared last week, the INM also would not accept our joint income. Each one has to qualify.

Feb 24, 2010, 6:37 PM

Post #8 of 46 (6697 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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I don't know where it is. The information was reported by a law student who works for a law firm in Ajijic, Spencer McMullen, who has a reputation of knowing what he's talking about. You can read his report in this thread. You'll need to scroll down a ways.

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Feb 24, 2010, 6:46 PM)

fishfrier

Feb 24, 2010, 9:37 PM

Post #9 of 46 (6641 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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I'm a little confused. I copied this directly from the INM web site for an FM3 and it reads that the income requirement for the primary income earner is USD $1,500.00 and USD $750.00 for each dependent. I realize that the English version may not be exact because the official monetary would be in Pesos but it's still a big difference from what is being written. That's why I'm confused. I'm never sure what to tell people. Obviously the line stating reduction of income for home ownership may change. And live with funds I receive from abroad:
If you are already in Mexico and have decided to establish residency here, you must apply for a change of migration status at any National Institute of Migration office Directorio

In this case, you must submit:

Application for change of migration status to Resident Pensioner.

Passport or valid identification and travel document.

Letter to the National Institute of Migration, in Spanish and with your signature, stating your reasons for wanting to establish residency in Mexico.

Letter from a from Mexican or foreign bank or financial institution or trust proving that you receive sufficient economic resources from abroad and that from such resources, from the yields they produce, or from your investments in Mexico you will obtain a monthly income of US$ 1,500.00 for one year.

This amount will increase by US$ 750.00 for each family member accompanying you.

If a foreign national proves acquisition of real estate intended for his/her own use, such as a house, the National Institute of Migration may authorize reduction of the aforementioned minimum by up to half.

FM2

Proof of payment of duties.

Completed form FM1.

Five photographs (4X4 cm), 3 front and 2 right profile (2.5 cm from chin to hairline), white background, with forehead and ears uncovered, and without earrings or eyeglasses. Instant photographs are not acceptable

Important.

Feb 25, 2010, 7:42 AM

Post #10 of 46 (6585 views)

Re: [fishfrier] New immigration manual

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This is a Google translation (emphases added) from the new INM Manual:

b) Letter from financial institution, Mexican or foreign bank or trust institution where stating that the person has at least a minimum monthly income equivalent to two hundred fifty times the general minimum wage in Mexico City.
c) If requesting authorization for dependents, the monthly amount indicated will increase a hundred twenty-five times the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each person dependent on him.

This is also the current rule, notwithstanding the $1500 number quoted.

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Feb 25, 2010, 7:43 AM)

fishfrier

Feb 25, 2010, 9:26 AM

Post #11 of 46 (6545 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Thanks Rolly. I guess they use a higher amount in the translated version of the INM web site is to avoid any fluctuation in exchange rates. Better to be on the safe side when it come to minimum $ requirements.

mcm

Feb 25, 2010, 12:26 PM

Post #12 of 46 (6508 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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Judy -- the relevant section for requirements for FM-3 rentista visa is section 2.5 of the DOF (to which Rolly published the link).
Here's what it says:
Requisitos a) Copia del pasaporte o documento de identidad y viaje, válidos para México. b) Carta de institución financiera, banco mexicano o extranjero o de institución fiduciaria en donde se acredite que la persona cuenta por lo menos con un ingreso mínimo mensual equivalente a doscientos cincuenta veces el salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal. c) Si solicita autorización para Dependientes Económicos, el monto mensual señalado aumentará a ciento veinticinco veces el salario mínimo vigente en el Distrito Federal, por cada persona que dependa de él.
In contrast, the requisites for FM-2 Rentista are (from Section 2.22 of the DOF):
Requisitos a) Copia del pasaporte o documento de identidad y viaje, válidos para México. b) Carta dirigida al INM, en español y firmada por el interesado, en la que solicite la calidad de Inmigrante y característica de rentista, exprese su propósito de radicarse en México en tanto adquiera la calidad de Inmigrado. c) Carta de institución de crédito mexicana o extranjera o institución financiera similar o fideicomiso, en donde se acredite que el solicitante cuenta con recursos suficientes provenientes del exterior y que de éstos, de los rendimientos que produzcan o de sus inversiones en el país, obtendrá durante un año, ingresos mensuales por una cantidad no menor del equivalente a cuatrocientos días el salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal. d) Por cada persona que integre la familia del solicitante, el monto de los mínimos mensuales señalados, aumentará por la cantidad equivalente a doscientos días de dicho salario mínimo. e) Si el extranjero demuestra la adquisición de un bien inmueble destinado para uso propio como casa habitación, la autoridad migratoria podrá autorizar que el extranjero acredite hasta el equivalente al cincuenta por ciento de dichos montos.
So -- the FM-2 rentista allows the possibility (at the discretion of the immigration authority) of a 50% discount on monthly income, but the FM-3 rentista apparently no longer has this option.

Sigh.

Many thanks to Rolly for the link to the DOF!

I'm looking forward to my next month's visit to migration, to see how, or if, these changes are put into effect.

Feb 25, 2010, 12:54 PM

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Re: [mcm] New immigration manual

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I am 59 my wife a few years older. I called several consulates in the U.S. Each one said I need a letter from a bank stating I am receiving a pension and or SS. I explained I am to young for my SS and my pension does not start until I am 60. I went on to explain I have more then enough income in investments, they said no good you can take the money out of investments.
I said My wife will be able to get her pension and SS can I be her dependent they said they will have to look into this.
What garbage if my wife qualifies there is no reason I cannot be her dependent. I guess I can always get the FM3 in Mexico. They just want to see income statements from banks

Tony

arbon

Feb 25, 2010, 12:56 PM

Post #14 of 46 (6491 views)

Re: [mcm] New immigration manual

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"So -- the FM-2 rentista allows the possibility (at the discretion of the immigration authority) of a 50% discount on monthly income, but the FM-3 rentista apparently no longer has this option."

Does it not say any more "up to a 50% discount".
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Marlene

Feb 25, 2010, 1:14 PM

Post #15 of 46 (6477 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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Tonynico, Yes, and that's why it's a good idea to apply for your FM3 in Mexico. The "rules" established by your nearest INM office are ultimately the rules you will have to follow anyway, not the rules of the varying and individual Mexican Consulates elsewhere in the world. Investments/savings definitely do work to qualify those under retirement age. And I don't see why you can't be a dependent, as long as she has the income specified, to support a couple. (It seems that the folks in Aguas have run into something different this year, which may be the sign of things to come, or it may just be someone having a bad day).

Feb 25, 2010, 1:21 PM

Post #16 of 46 (6471 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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Tony, after May 1st you will have no choice; you will have to apply for the FM3 in México.

Rolly Pirate

Marlene

Feb 25, 2010, 1:23 PM

Post #17 of 46 (6466 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Rolly, do you suppose someone has actually let the Mexican Consulates around world, know that yet? :-) I wonder what sort of an answer they would give if one were to call and ask them if they knew about any of the changes....Nevermind...

Feb 25, 2010, 1:24 PM

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Re: [Marlene] New immigration manual

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Feb 25, 2010, 1:27 PM

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Re: [mcm] New immigration manual

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Thanks, mcm.

I was hoping to find some place that specifically states that the "up to 50% discount" for owning a home applies only to FM2 and NOT to FM3.

This was not even an issue until this year since our joint income way exceeds the required amount. It's just that most it comes to me, and less to John, and this year they required he meet the requirement on his own.

If both this issues are enforced, it looks as if our only option may be to get FM2--at least for him. I've begun doing a search on MexCon for a comparison between FM2 and FM3, but it looks as if that might be quite a job. At any rate, the whole thing has been pretty disconcerting. We went to bed last night thinking that maybe we'd have to return to live in the U.S. For us, that is not a happy thought.

Well, we'll continue our research and see what we can come up with. Our FM3's are presently at the INM office and we trust they will be renewed for this year since they said they would be approved with the proof of home ownership (which we presented to them).

Feb 25, 2010, 1:36 PM

Post #20 of 46 (6443 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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Converting from an FM3 to an FM2 for me a few days ago was no more trouble than a usual renewal. Of course, my INM office is staffed by angels, so YMMV.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 25, 2010, 1:40 PM

Post #21 of 46 (6433 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Rolly, so what changes are you experiencing (or will experience) with an FM2, as opposed to an FM3? What about taxes, vehicle registration, etc., etc.? In other words, how are the benefits and responsibilities different between the two?

Hound Dog

Feb 25, 2010, 2:03 PM

Post #22 of 46 (6424 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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The only difference for the first 5 years is the restriction on the number of days you can be out of the country in 5 years
No tax implications no car implications.
You cannot drive a foreign car if you decide after the first 5 years on FM2 to become inmigrado . (the equivalent ofthe Mexican " green card").Until then you can drive your foreign plated car.
I do not know if the rule on the number of days out of the country have change with the new regulations.

Feb 25, 2010, 2:08 PM

Post #23 of 46 (6419 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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My sole reason for moving to an FM2 is the goal of Inmigrado, so I will not have to keep going to the INM office each year. Time out of country is not a concern for me, and in 5 more years I should not be driving even if my old truck is still drivable.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 25, 2010, 3:00 PM

Post #24 of 46 (6395 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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Would putting your husband down as a dependent help that way he does not need to show income but you need to show more income. Or is it cheaper for both of you to both get a fm2

Ron

Feb 25, 2010, 3:07 PM

Post #25 of 46 (6390 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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Under the new rules, for a couple owning a home, it is slightly cheaper for one to get an FM2 with the partner as a dependent and with home owner's discount than to have FM3s without the discount. (kind of a convoluted sentence)

Rolly Pirate

Manuel Dexterity

Feb 25, 2010, 3:27 PM

Post #26 of 46 (7457 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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I have glanced at the document and to me it appears that some of the info being posted on this thread is not quite accurate!! (what a surprise!)

One thing I read is that you can apply for an FM2 without having an FM3.

Another thing I saw was income requirements for dependents of foreigners is left to the discretion of the Immigration official handling the case.

Feb 25, 2010, 3:45 PM

Post #27 of 46 (7448 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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So lets see
I have more then enough money to live in Mexico BUT because I am not getting my ss and pension I cannot get an fm3 or fm2 until I turn 62 and that is if they don't change the rules the day I turn 62.

For my wife she can get an fm3 for herself but not for me because her ss and pension does not clear$2,250 for both of us.
where I live I do not know what is required to obtain an fm2 (which would solve both our problems) but I am sure it is not good Where I have my house, the powers that be never made it easy they act like they are seperate from Mexico and make their own laws as they go.
So if I was Bill gates and did not have a pension or ss I could not get an fm3 because I am two young for ss and no pension.

My choices are live on a fmt until I hit 62 Or my wife can take out an annuity and between that and her pension and ss we can get the fm3 or 2 if lucky.

So I have to tie up money at low interst rates to get an extra few bucks to meet these idiotic rules.
I tell you it just makes me so angry.
All because they will not except investments as proof of income because they are not guaranteed.

Tony

esperanza

Feb 25, 2010, 3:46 PM

Post #28 of 46 (7448 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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In Reply To

Would putting your husband down as a dependent help that way he does not need to show income but you need to show more income. Or is it cheaper for both of you to both get a fm2
Ron

Good grief, my eyes stopped at the phrase in red. Once I recovered from my shock, I finished the sentence...pshew!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Manuel Dexterity

Feb 25, 2010, 3:54 PM

Post #29 of 46 (7438 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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In Reply To

My choices are live on a fmt until I hit 62 Or my wife can take out an annuity and between that and her pension and ss we can get the fm3 or 2 if lucky.

You can choose to live elsewhere.

In Reply To

So I have to tie up money at low interst rates to get an extra few bucks to meet these idiotic rules.
I tell you it just makes me so angry.
All because they will not except investments as proof of income because they are not guaranteed.

Tony

I think maybe you should look elsewhere for your retirement home.

esperanza

Feb 25, 2010, 4:35 PM

Post #30 of 46 (7417 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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Tonynico, please settle down. This is Esperanza, the forum moderator, writing to you.

You have made a couple of errors in interpreting the new regulations.

First, you've made some serious and incorrect assumptions about what has changed. The biggest change (and frankly, it is likely to be a change for the better) is that starting May 1, 2010, you will not be able to apply for an FM-3 at a Mexican consulate.

Second, there is nothing in the new regulation that says you must prove that you are RETIRED in order to apply for and receive an FM-3 in Mexico. The only requirement is proof of enough income to meet Mexico's legal requirements. There are many, many ways of meeting those requirements. So rather than get mad and then abusive to others here on the forum, please try to get creative in meeting the income requirements. Those income requirements continue to apply to anyone applying for an FM-3.

It's important to point out that the INM (Mexico's immigration bureaucracy) is similar to the bureaucracies of most other countries: unwieldy, open to numerous interpretations, and frequently seeming to be without rhyme or reason, the INM hoops are applied equally to ANY foreigner applying for a tourist card or visa to live in the country. So please, Tonynico, try not to take these new regulations personally. They aren't directed at you, they really won't affect you adversely as you plan to move to Mexico, and you'll need to go through bigger changes than these if you expect to live in Mexico with any degree of contentment. Remember, it's not about you.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Feb 25, 2010, 4:49 PM

Post #31 of 46 (7406 views)

Re: [esperanza] New immigration manual

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Hello Esperanza
I never took the changes as if they were directed towards me. However just as I express my views about things I think are wrong or right in America I express my views on this board. I realize you cannot speak your mind once in Mexico as a non citizen ( no problem) But when I express my view right or wrong and someone feels pompous enough to suggest that I live somewhere else then I feel I was justified in my reply. However for the sake of harmony which I am all for, and in that very spirit of harmony I will ignore people that feel they have the right to tell others how to live and think.

I thank you for getting involved and giving me your input. I will explore other avenues to obtain an fm3 I hope you are correct but everything I have read and the numerous phone calls leads me to believe they will only expcept pensions and ss which I fall short on.
I guess time will tell

Tony

sparks

Feb 25, 2010, 5:01 PM

Post #32 of 46 (7399 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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I came down before I received SS by a year. I was giving myself funds from another retirement fund and had savings but 'the income' was not enough to qualify. I simply put a few thousand in a PayPal account and sent myself XXX dollars to meet the requirements. I only had to send for the 3 months before applying - all that's required

Just another option

The other message was that having a 'short fuse' as an extranjero will probably not work well in Mexico

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Vichil

Feb 25, 2010, 5:14 PM

Post #33 of 46 (7388 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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Do not assume you can be your wife´s dependent just because she can show the income and you cannot.

Go the the Immigration Office of the place you will be living in and ask them what you should do or get a facilitator.
The Immigration people are the ones who will decide of what you can and cannot do.

In Latin countries the men are the head of the family so it is way easier not to change that perception.
My husband and I were in the same situation as you are when we came 10 years ago so we showed 3 US bank statements (joint account with my husband´s name coming first) with monthly deposits meeting the requirements.
We got a visa for my husband and one for me as a dependent. 4 years later we changed to an FM2 and this year we will change to Inmigrado and will not have to worry about any of this any longer.
It is not complicated. Everyone has a different situation , find out what the rules for your situation are and follow them.
Adjust to whatever they want you to do and NEVER get mad. You get mad you lose.

Feb 25, 2010, 6:03 PM

Post #34 of 46 (7371 views)

Re: [tonynico] New immigration manual

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"Would putting your husband down as a dependent help that way he does not need to show income but you need to show more income. Or is it cheaper for both of you to both get a fm2?"

We've talked about that since all this came up. I guess we hadn't considered it a possibility. When we had John's mother here, we did, I believe, finally get her classified as a dependent, but it was a little complicated. When we got our FM3 in the States, they have classified her as a dependent, but when we got down here to register the FM3, we needed proof that John was really her son, blah, blah, blah. We will check on the possibility of his being my dependent when we go back to pick up our FM3's (hopefully!)

Feb 25, 2010, 6:06 PM

Post #35 of 46 (7370 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual

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We'd have no problem at all qualifying for the FM3 if John were a dependent. We have plenty of income to qualify if both our incomes are concerned. It's just that they want to separate them out and then John's doesn't reach the qualifying amount, but mine if way over.

Vichil

Feb 26, 2010, 7:08 AM

Post #36 of 46 (7318 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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Here in Jalisco they want to see three months of deposits in the bank if you do not have a pension or choose to go that way. Your husband opens an account showing the amount of money they want to see for the year or for the 3 months they want to see and you will not have any problems.
We do not show immigration what our real income is, it is no one´s business, just the minimum amount they want to see. No big deal.

(This post was edited by Vichil on Feb 26, 2010, 7:11 AM)

tashby

Feb 26, 2010, 2:47 PM

Post #37 of 46 (7259 views)

Re: [Vichil] New immigration manual

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Quote

Your husband opens an account showing the amount of money they want to see for the year...

That's how our first renewal last year went off. We don't have pensions or regular monthly income, and I anticipated having to "create" the appearance of it by moving money from one account to another for the three months prior to renewal. Didn't need to do that since we also had an account at Multiva that (by luck) had sufficient funds. Multiva wrote a letter which satisfied the local IMN officials.

We're also in Jalisco.

Now that the earlier dust in this thread has settled, I hope it gets back on track regarding the changes that will be occuring on May 1, and how we can all best anticipate/accomodate them.

Feb 26, 2010, 3:01 PM

Post #38 of 46 (7249 views)

Re: New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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I have far more questions than answers on this new scheme.

For example -- how will one get a menaje de casa which requires an FM3 or FM2 and can only be gotten from the consulate serving you home town? The new procedure says you can only get an FM3/2 at an INM office in México. Does this mean you must get your FM3/2, then go back North to get a menaje and arrange for the shipment? The new departure form (shown in another thread) seems to have a life of only 60 days. So do you have to do all the menaje and shipping in 60 days?

To borrow from Fiddler -- "this would cross a rabbi's eyes."

Rolly Pirate

morgaine7

Feb 26, 2010, 3:15 PM

Post #39 of 46 (7241 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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Rolly, the departure form appears to be only for those who have to leave Mexico while their documents are "in progress".

Kate

Feb 26, 2010, 3:19 PM

Post #40 of 46 (7237 views)

Re: [morgaine7] New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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Hummm...You're right. So much for my careful reading. But I still wonder about the menaje.

Rolly Pirate

Gringal

Feb 26, 2010, 4:11 PM

Post #41 of 46 (7216 views)

Re: [Rolly] New immigration manual - have any of you heard of this?

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Horror of horrors: Lets hope somebody thought of that one when creating the new rules.

We had rivers of grief getting our stuff here back when, since we arrived a couple of months ahead of the stuff. That memory is in a back compartment along with the one about getting the red light EACH time when we came in our crammed pickup/campertop rig in the hottest part of August.

Maybe this is all just a test of our determination to make it work. Yuck.

Feb 26, 2010, 5:29 PM

Post #42 of 46 (7192 views)

Re: [Vichil] New immigration manual

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Your husband opens an account showing the amount of money they want to see for the year or for the 3 months they want to see and you will not have any problems.

When the deposits are shown as coming from your own bank account, is that any problem?

morgaine7

Feb 26, 2010, 5:36 PM

Post #43 of 46 (7189 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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When I wire money from my bank account in the US to my bank account in Mexico, the transaction shows on my statement as "orden de pago extranjero". There's nothing to indicate who (or even which bank) it originated from.

Kate

Feb 26, 2010, 5:39 PM

Post #44 of 46 (7185 views)

Re: [morgaine7] New immigration manual

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We don't even have a bank account here in Mexico. Well, we'll just have to keep working on a solution.

Vichil

Feb 26, 2010, 8:51 PM

Post #45 of 46 (7148 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] New immigration manual

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No it is not a problem.
we do not have pensions so we have no steady income. We have investments but no pension so if we want to show income we put money in our account in the US and wire the money to my husband or my saving account in Mexico.
We each got a saving account in Mexico so we do not have to have the US statement translated.
We wire the money from the US account to the Mexican accounts before we need to renew the visas.The fact that the wires come from our own account is not an issue .

It is easy to open a bank account in Mexico and it can be pretty convenient . You can bank on line and it is good to have a local connection.

wynco

Mar 9, 2010, 11:05 AM

Post #46 of 46 (6921 views)