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drmike

Jun 19, 2008, 9:03 AM

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rudeness

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Okay, is it just me or are women in Mexico the most rude people you've ever met? As is well known, sidewalks in Mexico are very narrow. Due to my brain injury I have to walk with a cane for balance. I am also 6'3" and weigh about 220 (so I'm easy to be seen, it's not like coming upon me is a surprise). As I stumble down the sidewalk, Mexican men will step away to allow me to pass (or at least make an effort to miss me), but Mexican women will try to knock me down. They never yield! I've also noticed this in grocery stores. The men will try to avoid collisions, but the women will push their cart right at you, challenging you to yield to them or will bump shoulders with you instead of trying to avoid collisions.

I am baffled as to why? Is this a common occurance across Mexico or perhaps it is a "Bajio" thing. In the past I have stumbled away to avoid collisions, but lately I've just been "bustin shoulders" with the women.

Any comments?
Dr. Mike

http://www.smarthealthchoices.blogspot.com

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain,
all leading in the same direction,
so it doesn't matter which path you take.
The only one wasting time is the one
who runs around and around the mountain,
telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

Hindu teaching

Rolly

Jun 19, 2008, 9:41 AM

Post #2 of 28 (4351 views)

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Re: [drmike] rudeness

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Like you, Mike, I have walking/balance problems. I always walk on a sidewalk next to the buildings so I can lean against a wall if necessary. I usually stop in the face of on-coming walkers to be sure I don't get jostled and thrown off balance. I have noticed that both women and young people (teens, kids) seem to resent my taking space on "their" sidewalk. I see the same thing when they are walking in the street and I'm driving. Teens are really bad about obstructing traffic.

I don't have problems at the supermarket, Sam's or Home Depot because I go early in the morning right at opening time.

Rolly Pirate

robrt8

Jun 19, 2008, 10:15 AM

Post #3 of 28 (4339 views)

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Re: [drmike] rudeness

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Mike, a man is expected to yield to a woman. I don't know where on the ladder a guy with a cane is. If I were a woman, I would expect an older Mexican male with a cane to still be chivalrous. These gals may be just as surprised as you.

waltw

Jun 19, 2008, 10:50 AM

Post #4 of 28 (4329 views)

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Re: [Rolly] rudeness

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Like you, Mike, I have walking/balance problems. I always walk on a sidewalk next to the buildings so I can lean against a wall if necessary

********************
In Oaxaca several years ago, I was informed by a young lady that when walking down the street with a woman, the proper behavior is to always let the woman walk on the "inside" near the building, and the man walks on the "outside" near the street. If you don't follow this custom, some will view your behavior as rude.

I don't know, but perhaps the same rule applies when passing a woman walking down the sidewalk in the other direction?

drmike

Jun 19, 2008, 11:35 AM

Post #5 of 28 (4320 views)

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Re: [waltw] rudeness

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Perhaps it is as stated the "custom" in Mexico for all to yield to women. I've noticed that when approaching women they seem to dive for the wall side of the sidewalk. Like Rolly, I tried to stay by the wall so I can flatten up against it if need be, plus the sidewalks usually have steep drop offs and if I were to step in the drop off I would fall in the street and be run over by a kamikaze taxi driver.

Rolly, you are correct that the young people do not have the manners of the older person, I suppose that is pretty much worldwide, now.

Oh well, life in Mexico. I still love it!
Dr. Mike

http://www.smarthealthchoices.blogspot.com

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain,
all leading in the same direction,
so it doesn't matter which path you take.
The only one wasting time is the one
who runs around and around the mountain,
telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

Hindu teaching

BajaGringo

Jun 19, 2008, 4:19 PM

Post #6 of 28 (4263 views)

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Re: [waltw] rudeness

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Walt is correct and the tradition is one that is largely lost in much of the world, including a man going down the stairs before a lady and following her up. The sidewalk tradition actually dates back a few thousand years when folks would "heave" their trash and waste from upstairs windows. Those walking right next to the building would usually miss the "shower and so a man would put himself in the "line of fire", so to speak. Supposedly that tradition would be updated through the years to shield her from dust and dirt from the street from passing carts and horses. The latest one I heard was that the man would walk on the outside to protect her from vehicle traffic driving next or even onto the curb.

In my travels I have seen many buses and taxis drive up onto the curb and sidewalk to get around traffic in many cities around the globe and have had to jump out of the way on more than one occasion.

In the interior of Mexico, I have noticed that many of these customs are still widely followed and if you are trying to take the "wall side" of the sidewalk, some women may view that as lack of courtesy on your part, whether intentional or not.

As far as other venues, I haven't witnessed anything like that here in Baja. When we go out later today I will start to pay closer attention and see what I observe...

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

tashby

Jun 19, 2008, 5:17 PM

Post #7 of 28 (4245 views)

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Re: [BajaGringo] rudeness

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^^ "The sidewalk tradition..."

Yep. At least that's what I was taught when growing up (in the USA, in Southern California). When walking with a woman, the man always takes the street side of the sidewalk. And if I'm walking solo and a woman walks toward me in the opposite direction, I just naturally moved in the direction of the street.

But then I don't have mobility issues, fortunately. I would think there would be some understanding/latitude imparted if that was the case.

As far as this kids go, well, yes. Kids these days.... 8-)

ronau

Jun 19, 2008, 8:33 PM

Post #8 of 28 (4208 views)

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Re: [drmike] rudeness

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The funny thing is that I was talking with some of my friends about this very topic today before reading this thread. I have lived in a small city in the Bajio for over a year and still have not figured out which side of the sidewalk to take when meeting a women coming from the other direction. I was always taught the "male on the outside" routine, but that doesn't always work here. I have even experimented and cannot figure out a real pattern, it seems that each person has their own preference as to who walks where. Sometimes I do as Rolly and just stop and stand and let them figure out how to avoid the collision. The grocery store problem is also the same but with the twist that carts are often parked cross ways in the aisle while the shopper looks around. When asked to move so others can pass they are invariably shocked and surprised. Now in no instance have I ever felt hostility or aggressiveness, just a complete lack of any sense of someone else's needs regarding personal space. I don't think of it so much as rudeness because I know these same people to be so friendly and helpful under other circumstances but certainly you are not the only one to have noticed this. My Mexican friends here (most of whom have spent a lot of time in the U.S.) recognize the issue but can't explain it and just laugh it off.

Georgia

Jun 20, 2008, 7:33 AM

Post #9 of 28 (4159 views)

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Re: [ronau] rudeness

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Ronau, you have touched on the main issue: each culture has a different sense of "personal space" and they differ widely. In one fascinating cultural encounter in another country I observed a native back an American clear across a room to the opposite wall as the American tried to maintain his cultural personal space. No offense intended. Lots of discomfort experienced on the part of the American who was unaccostomed to having someone speak to him about six inches from his nose.

Georgia

Jun 20, 2008, 7:36 AM

Post #10 of 28 (4155 views)

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Re: [drmike] rudeness

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In Guadalajara, especially, there is a term for a certain type of young woman who is all dolled up and is born with a sense of entitlement: a "fresa." The fresa mentality carries over to most Mexican women who, I think, feel they have put up with enough already from men, and the least they expect is to walk wherever the hell the please on the sidewalk. It's kind of a contact sport. You probably wouldn't fit in their shoes, but if you could walk in them for a mile .............

esperanza

Jun 20, 2008, 7:39 AM

Post #11 of 28 (4155 views)

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Re: [Georgia] rudeness

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I theorize that it's this same need for different amounts of personal space that cause foreigners to rant about Mexico's drivers, especially in "driving too close". I've learned to keep the distance between me and the car in front of me much shorter than I would have when driving North of the Border. If I don't, other cars will insert themselves between me and the car ahead of me. They're not cutting me off--they're just taking the available open space.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Georgia

Jun 20, 2008, 7:46 AM

Post #12 of 28 (4147 views)

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Re: [esperanza] rudeness

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Ah, yes, a topic I have tried unsuccessfully to explain to my husband. The same technique applies when driving in cities nob. But he is a country mouse and I learned to drive in New York City. On one dark and stormy night I just told him to close his eyes as I drove the wrong way up a New York City avenue to get around a gridlocked intersection as I was driving crosstown. No problem. Any self respecting Mexican would have done the same. Now that I think of it, probably most of the other drivers in that neighborhood were latinos.

colibri1

Jun 21, 2008, 8:34 AM

Post #13 of 28 (4088 views)

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Re: [drmike] rudeness

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Even I, a woman have constantly been stampeded off the narrow sidewalks into the street in colonial cities, by native women and young people. My husband tells me I should walk straight ahead, but it's just easier than a confrontation. Maybe it's because I'm a gringa...?
M

Brian

Jun 21, 2008, 9:10 AM

Post #14 of 28 (4078 views)

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Re: [colibri1] rudeness

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Normal behavior in one culture is often considered rude in another. It is OK to say that not all customs in Mexico are to one's personal liking. One thing that bothers the heck out of me is when I am being waited on by a sales clerk. Someone else steps up next to me, asks a question, and then the clerk gives her attention to that person. Crowding up and cutting in front of people in a line is another example of what would be considered rude NOB.

Not all Mexican people are "sweet and considerate" contrary to the statements frequently made on gringo message boards like this. I learned that lesson from mi suegra..just kidding :-)

Brian

(This post was edited by Brian on Jun 21, 2008, 9:14 AM)

sioux4noff

Jun 21, 2008, 1:49 PM

Post #15 of 28 (4029 views)

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Re: [Brian] rudeness

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Quote

Someone else steps up next to me, asks a question, and then the clerk gives her attention to that person.

Boy, do I know that one! Especially when the question turns out to be complicated, and needs the attention of another clerk who was also helping another person (who is now left waiting) Now you've got 2 clerkshelping one person, and 2 others left waiting to complete their transactions.
But I have to admit that I have done the same thing myself. Clerk is waiting on someone, I have a question. I'll occasionally just wait for a lull in the transaction and then ask my question. It doesn't seem to bother the other customers.
Clerks on the average don't seem to be able to multi-task at all. It is undivided attention to each person, one at a time. And apparently they don't want to say to the interupting person, I'll be with you in a minute.

thriftqueen

Jun 21, 2008, 2:24 PM

Post #16 of 28 (4020 views)

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Re: [Brian] rudeness

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My friend, Cuquita taught me to say to the interloper, "por favor, espera su turno". That gets a big surprised back off look from the offender. I suspect they do it more to the gringos than to their own kind.

thriftqueen

Jun 21, 2008, 2:29 PM

Post #17 of 28 (4018 views)

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Re: [colibri1] rudeness

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That used to bother me but I have learned to smile big and hold my own on the sidewalk when approaching someone. Once in Navojoa on a crowded sidewalk an ancient woman said something like, mutter, mutter "gringos" and I wasn't even in her space. I attribute it most to a more crowded world and cultural difference. It simply doesn't bother the offender and most of the time it's not intentional.

(This post was edited by thriftqueen on Jun 21, 2008, 2:31 PM)

sioux4noff

Jun 21, 2008, 10:10 PM

Post #18 of 28 (3971 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] rudeness

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I suspect they do it more to the gringos than to their own kind

I thought that at first, but after observation, it doesn't seem to matter. Equal opportunity disruption.
I have tried, "espera su turno", or "esperate, por favor", but once the clerk has started helping, there is no turning back.
The other day when I was waiting at McDonalds (so shoot me) and was next in line, a young Mexican woman came up to the counter and stood next to me. The clerk came back over, and asked the Mexican woman for her order. She said (are you sitting down?)"She was next" and pointed at me. I of course thanked her.

colibri1

Jun 22, 2008, 4:14 AM

Post #19 of 28 (3961 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] rudeness

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Thanks for the encouraging words! Smiling is good, it's hard to feel bad when someone is smiling at you.

La Isla

Jun 22, 2008, 9:22 AM

Post #20 of 28 (3924 views)

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Re: [colibri1] rudeness

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This is apropos of nothing that's already been remarked on in this thread. Yesterday I was standing on a bus on the way home from a concert in Chapultepec Park. Two young women who were sitting next to me sweetly asked me twice if I wanted to sit down, and I politely declined with a smile. Now while my hair is gray, I don't look particularly decrepit, so I think that maybe they just wanted to chat with me in English or maybe they were just very lovely people!

Georgia

Jun 22, 2008, 12:34 PM

Post #21 of 28 (3890 views)

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Re: [La Isla] rudeness

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Your hair is gray so you are "gente grande" deserving of extra consideration. Anything else is rude.

Rolly

Jun 22, 2008, 12:51 PM

Post #22 of 28 (3886 views)

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Re: [Georgia] rudeness

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My hair is so white I have to wear sunglasses to look in the mirror, but on the street I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. Smile

Rolly

Georgia

Jun 22, 2008, 1:42 PM

Post #23 of 28 (3876 views)

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Re: [Rolly] rudeness

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I'm surprised, Rolly. I have found I get a bit extra consideration even though I am far from falling apart, I am clearly "de tercera edad" and younger people either offer me a seat or step aside on the sidewalk. Maybe it's the "mother superior" glance I perfected when I used to be a teacher back in the day.

Gringal

Jun 22, 2008, 2:21 PM

Post #24 of 28 (3866 views)

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Re: [Georgia] rudeness

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Nah. It's that long wooden ruler you're carrying.

Georgia

Jun 22, 2008, 5:59 PM

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Re: [Gringal] rudeness

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Absolutely. The one with the metal edge.

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