FM3 Rumor du jour

FM3 Rumor du jour

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HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Rumor floating around is that soon FM3's may not have to be renewed each year,
i.e., only when holder's status (including address) changes. Asked an aduana person in San Miguel and
was told "Maybe". Anyone heard of pending action more substantial than "maybe"?

Jan 5, 2008, 8:43 AM

Post #2 of 34 (6041 views)

Re: [garrycouch] FM3 Rumor du jour

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It would be nice, but don't hold your breath.

Rolly Pirate

SteveInPVR

Jan 10, 2008, 9:54 AM

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Late FM3 Renewal

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My FM3 expires in early April and I may not be able to make it to Mexico until mid April. Is there a "grace period" for renewals, or will it be a hassle to have it renewed after the expiration date?
Steve

Jan 10, 2008, 11:02 AM

Post #4 of 34 (5840 views)

Re: [SteveInPVR] Late FM3 Renewal

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Yes, you have something like 30 days afterward to make the renewal.

SteveInPVR

Jan 10, 2008, 12:04 PM

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Re: [jennifer rose] Late FM3 Renewal

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Thanks! I feel much better knowing that.
Steve

Guavagto

Feb 17, 2008, 5:16 PM

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Re: [garrycouch] FM3 Rumor du jour

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This may only apply to the office in San Miguel de Allende but we were able to change the expiration date on our FM3s.

They expired on Jan. 15 the so the earliest we could turn paper work in was Dec. 15th which made it a close call since the office almost shuts down for the Christmas period. Usually when we were only traveling inside of Mexico the local office gave us a copy of our cover application letter and a statement our FM3 renewal was in process.

This year we were going to be traveling to Texas for the Christmas period which required even a more formal transit letter allowing us to be outside Mexico for 30 days. It had to be stamped at immigration as we left and reentered Mexico. We had five working days to return it to the immigration office.

In the past we had been told the renewal date could not be changed. This year however they allowed us to pay a minimal fee and the expiration date will be November 15th which will be much easier for us.

Judy in Ags

Feb 17, 2008, 8:36 PM

Post #7 of 34 (5615 views)

Re: [Guavagto] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Are you sure that is correct that the earliest you could turn your paper work in was December 15--one month before the expiration date? Our "rules" say that we must apply for the renewal NO LATER THAN one month before the expiration date.

Feb 17, 2008, 9:36 PM

Post #8 of 34 (5606 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Yes, she's most likely correct. Most INAMI offices won't accept renewal applications no earlier than 30 days before expiration.

Judy in Ags

Feb 18, 2008, 8:50 AM

Post #9 of 34 (5565 views)

Re: [jennifer rose] FM3 Rumor du jour

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That's interesting. I guess we're just fortunate. We have to get new FM3's this year, which they say takes 4 weeks, so we were happy to be able to get our application in a little early. We're planning a birthday bash for my dad's 90th birthday in Waco, so we hope to be all set with our new FM3's by then.

Feb 20, 2008, 6:53 AM

Post #10 of 34 (5465 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] FM3 Rumor du jour

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I have a couple of interesting (to me) twists involving my FM-3 visa and as a result happen to know that at least here in Hermosillo, Sonora the visa (INAMI or INS ???) office would not let me apply for the renewal of my FM-3 visa YET.

The interesting thing is that there is no expiration date any place on the visa. When I twice applied for vehicle permits the person in that Mexican agency (I got the same guy twice, although he did not remember me the second time) got all verklempt because he could not find the expiration date on the FM-3 visa. He even showed me where it was supposed to be stamped.

I applied for and received my FM-3 in San Francisco in early March 2007. I crossed the border into Mexico with the visa for the first time in mid-April 2007. About ten days later, on 23 April 07, I registered the visa here at the local visa office.

When I went in to do the renewal (because it was approximately one year since I had applied for it and did not know when it actually expired) the nice lady told me it expires one year (technically 365 days) from the date stamped in the visa when I crossed the border. However, she said I could not apply for the renewal until 23 March 08, which would be the anniversary of getting the visa registered, not the anniversary of when I first crossed into Mexico with the visa.

That is at least the situation with me and here in Sonora.

Feb 20, 2008, 7:13 AM

Post #11 of 34 (5464 views)

Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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You, you're a quick learner. The people at INAMI (or any other governmental agency in Mexico) are always right. You won't get anywhere arguing or even attempting to discuss your reasoning with them. They've got their way, and those who deal with them are better off just doing it their way.

Yucatanman

Feb 22, 2008, 10:49 AM

Post #12 of 34 (5385 views)

Re: [jennifer rose] FM3 Rumor du jour

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I was told my the Mexican Imigration folks in San Jose Calif that my FM3 does not become valid until I cross the boarder, and I must do so within 90 days of recieving the visa in San Jose. Then once I across the boarder the FM3 starts and I must register within 30 days of crossing. My vehicle permit is good as long as my FM3 is good.

Feb 25, 2008, 12:32 PM

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Re: [Yucatanman] FM3 Rumor du jour

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I'm struggling with a lot of issues and decisions as we prepare to move to Mexico. One of them is whether or not to try to get an FM3 up here, or wait until we're in Mexico. An answer to this question will quickly settle the issue:

We are both under 55. Assuming we can satisfy all the other criteria, is it even possible to get an FM3 at a US Consulate if you're only in your late forties? Is it possible in Mexico? Anybody know?

Feb 25, 2008, 1:07 PM

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Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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"·.is it even possible to get an FM3 at a US Consulate if you're only in your late forties?"

Strange as it may seem, there is no yes/no answer. It depends on the local rules of the consulate where you apply.

You will not have an age problem if you apply in Mexico.

If you are bringing a lot of things with you, it may be to you advantage to get your FM3 in the USA. The customs folks are often more likely to let you in without any duty charges if you have an FM3.

If language is an issue, the people at the consulate will speak English. That is unlikely at an INM office in México.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 25, 2008, 1:17 PM

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 Rumor du jour

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THANK YOU Rolly. I just had a mild panic attack. A moving company was just arriving at our house to do an estimate, and I was reviewing my notes re FM3, and I kept seeing the 55 age requirement. I had visions of our stuff being stored in Texas, and then learning that once in Mexico we wouldn't be able to bring it down. (We're in Seattle currently.)

I already have the application from the consulate in Seattle. I think I'll just get the rest of the docs in order, and shuffle over there with crossed fingers. It's making mroe and more sense for one, and only one, of us to (try to) get an FM3 up here. Then, if we find a place we want to stay in Mexico within the 6 month after entry window, we'll bring our stuff in on that. And if not, we'll rinse and repeat, get the second FM3 and bring it in on that.

(This post was edited by tashby on Feb 25, 2008, 1:19 PM)

Feb 26, 2008, 1:40 PM

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Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Yet another FM3 question...

I plan on applying at the consulate in Seattle. Went to the Bank today and they said they'd have no problem writing the income verification letter which the Consulate asks for. Also took care of the Police background check per their instructions.

On the application form itself it asks for employment info for monthly income and years employed. (I'm self-employed, a consultant, and plan to continue working for US clients while living in Mexico. All of my work is done over the phone and internet. So I will continue to generate income which we'll live on down there.)

Then it asks for the "purpose" of the trip and lists...
-tourism
-business
-studies
-retirement
-transit
-other:__________________________

I guess I should just check retirement even though I don't plan on fully retiring? I certainly don't want to check business because that would hang me up. But by checking retirement they might question the legitimacy of the declared monthly income? I guess I just have to roll the dice and see how it goes....

jerezano

Feb 27, 2008, 6:52 AM

Post #17 of 34 (5166 views)

Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Hello tashby,

Ask the bank if that letter on your deposits can be written in Spanish. If so, it just might prevent problems at the Mexican Consulate. Depending on the practices of the Seattle Consulate, they may or may not require an expensive translation into Spanish.

Adiós. jerezano

Feb 27, 2008, 10:49 AM

Post #18 of 34 (5133 views)

Re: [jerezano] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Thanks. I will ask my bank if I can get a Spanish language version as well. The Mexican consulate here gives you a sample version of the type of letter they require, and it's in English, so I assume English will be accepted. But it's certainly worth having a Spanish version if I find out that's not the case after waiting in line for xx hours at the Consulate.

sioux4noff

Feb 27, 2008, 8:20 PM

Post #19 of 34 (5099 views)

Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Check on that waiting in line thing, too. When we got our FM3s in Austin, Texas we were specifically told to go around all the folks in line and go right to the counter and tell them why we're there.
And there were probably 100 Mexicans in line. We did as we were told, and were in with the consular agent in about 15 minutes.
We asked why we got that seemingly preferred treatment and he said we were there for another reason than the others, so were actually in a different line.
The Mexicans were there for a Matricular Consular identification card.

Ed and Fran

Feb 27, 2008, 9:05 PM

Post #20 of 34 (5092 views)

Re: [sioux4noff] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Similar to Houston, except there they had a separate window for FM3's. But the receptionist pointed us to that line, which was very much shorter than the wait for the other windows.

E&F

oldham

Feb 28, 2008, 2:39 PM

Post #21 of 34 (5036 views)

Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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could someone post online an example of the wording of an "income verification letter" mexican consulates are looking for. an sample letter in english would be great. i need some thing that will guide a financial institution in writing the required letter.

Feb 28, 2008, 3:14 PM

Post #22 of 34 (5028 views)

Re: [sioux4noff] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Thanks. Yes. It sounds like the consulate in Seattle is similar. I dropped by there one day to pick up the application and information re requirements and it was packed with people sitting and waiting. I had the dog in the car, so I turned around and left immediately thinking it was unusally busy that day. Nope. Went back a second time and the same scene, probably 150 or so people sitting waiting. (There is no receptionist, and no "take a number" thing. I couldn't make out what, if any, system there was. Having stood on Mexican soil many times, I knew this wasn't the time to be too, too terribly timid so as graciously as possible I saddled up to the windows and noticed that yes, here's one for Visas, others labeled differently. Got the application and info in minutes and left, feeling a little guilty about how quickly I was in and out while others sat waiting.)

Oldham....I'll shoot you what the consulate in Seattle gave me. I'd post it here, but don't know if that's kosher? Plus, from what everyone says, each Consulate is different. If it's okay to post here, then I'll do that after given the green light.

(This post was edited by tashby on Feb 28, 2008, 3:23 PM)

Feb 28, 2008, 3:45 PM

Post #23 of 34 (5014 views)

Re: [tashby] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Sure, it's OK to post here. May be very helpful to others.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 28, 2008, 4:24 PM

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Darn. I had it all typed out, along with other requirements from Seattle, but hit the wrong button. Okay, here is the sample letter that they give out re meeting the income requirement. This is a sample letter from 1997 that's still in circulation.....so you'll notice that they only ask to verify $1000 per month, plus $500 per dependent. I had my bank up it to $2000 per month just to be on the safe side. (I know, thanks to you all, that it's right around $1500, but my Bank didn't bat an eye at the $2000 figure so....)

ADDRESSED TO THE CONSULATE YOU'RE APPLYING TO:

Gentlemen:

Please be advised that John Smith has been a client of this bank since May of 1990 with all investment, depository and loan accounts being handled in an exemplary mannger.

Income has been verified and can quite easily provide for the $1000.00 requirement for the head of household and an additional $500.00 for each dependent member to be wired on a monthly basis to a Mexican bank.

Sincerely,

Yadda Yadda
Vice President of your bank.... NOTARIZED

_______

Again, they say this is just a sample letter. But you get the gist. At least this is what they hand out with the FM3 application in Seattle. On the other side of the sample letter are the other things you need to bring back....

--valid passport
--notarized letter from bank (above)

-- letter of good conduct from Washington State Patrol (easy over the internet....you set up an account with them, $10, then run a report on yourself. Then fax that to them in Olympia, and they say they'll send the NOTARIZED letter to you in 3-5 days. Did this the other day, we'll see when it arrives.)

--$134 Consular fee

--Two front-view passport photos

So next week once I have the letter from Washington State Patrol....I'll head down to the Consulate. Hope this helps someone!

Feb 28, 2008, 6:32 PM

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Re: [Yucatanman] FM3 Rumor du jour

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It is commonly stated on these MexConnect fora that a vehicle permit is valid as long as the associated FM3 is valid. I have had a completely different and thoroughly practical experience that indicates that might not be the case. Actually I have had this experience twice now.

I have a valid FM3 visa, but no where in the visa is there an expiration date.

I have twice gone to the Mexican vehicle permit issuing office in Empalme, Sonora, to get a vehicle permit for my US-plated vehicle because I needed to take it outside the Sonora Free Zone.

Both times the officials there got all verklemmt because my FM3 visa does not have an expiration date in it. And, as they stated: "We can only issue a permit up to the time your visa expires." Both times they formed a small committee there in the office to determine which of the two dates stamped and legible in the visa to use: the date the visa was issued in San Francisco, or the date when I first crossed into Mexico. One is March 7, 2007 and the other one is April 20, 2007. Both times they chose to use the earlier date because, as they stated, the vehicle permit would expire at a date earlier than any possible expiration date in the visa, had one ever been placed on the visa.

So, they are apparently of the opinion that the vehicle permit will expire when the FM3 visa expires.

One could argue that if I renew the FM3 visa before it expires, as I intend to do, it won't expire and so the vehicle permit won't expire either. I don't think I want to try to explain that technicality to a Mexican policeman any time soon.

What if, when I renew the FM3, they again fail to put an expiration date on it?

The vehicle permit has a specific expiration date. No where does it say that date is superceded by a valid FM3 visa. Someone on this forum may be able to refer us to an online document of some sort that explains all this, in Spanish, a copy of which we can keep in the glove compartment as we travel about Mexico, and whip it out and instruct the Mexican official in the details of this matter, but I don't think I want to pull that manoeuver on a Mexican policeman either.

The only thing that speaks logically to me that the vehicle permit's expiration date can or should be superceded by the expiration date of a valid FM3 visa is this: since you can only get these permits at an international border (a border with Mexico), with the exception of Empalme (the only exception I know of), the Mexicans probably would not expect the rest of you living in Jalisco and other areas very far from any border, to get back to a border every year to renew your vehicle permit.

Since I cross the US/Mexican border, on the ground, in my vehicle, several times per year, it is not a big deal for me to get a new permit. (I have to get a new one if I relinquish the old one every time I cross. Which we are advised to do.) For those of you not so close to a border, I guess you have to have faith your permits will be OK even if the "fecha de vencimiento" has come and gone.

Since my FM3 visa has no expiration date in it, I don't want to be in the position of trying to convince that Mexican policeman that my FM3 is valid...forget about the vehicle permit.

Feb 28, 2008, 7:06 PM

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Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Look at the pages of your FM-3 which are headed up with Primer Prorroga, Segundo Prorroga, etc. On the pages will be printed something like "per el pazo de un año que principio el die [INSERT DAY] del mes de [INSERT MONTH] de [INSERT YEAR], concluye el dia [INSERT DAY] del mes de [INSERT MONTH] de [INSERT YEAR]. Notice that dates inserted are one year less one day one year ahead of the first dates shown. The latter date is the expiration date.

Print out Ley Aduanera, Article 106 (IV) (a), which can be found at http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/12.pdf

If you are stopped by the fiscal police, feel free to pull out your copy of the Ley Aduanera and show that to them, along with your FM-3 or a copy thereof.

When you get your car permit, don't waste your time debating any points of law with the car permit folks. It's not their job to know and interpret the immigration law. Just get your permit, keep your mouth shut, and go on your way.

Feb 28, 2008, 7:12 PM

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Re: [jennifer rose] FM3 Rumor du jour

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I never, ever debate or in any way attempt to reason with, convince, persuade, nada de eso. I knew long before I came to Mexico, probably as a result of living in Italy for several years (my Mexican friend says "Italians are just like Mexicans, except they [the Italians] have nicer cars") that that would probably only make matters worse.

I never do that.

Isn't whipping out a copy of the law and showing it to the policeman tantamount to arguing with him about the law? But I will get a copy of it and try to read it.

My FM3 has never been renewed so those pages are still blank.

(This post was edited by JohnBleazard on Feb 28, 2008, 7:17 PM)

Feb 28, 2008, 7:19 PM

Post #28 of 34 (1341 views)

Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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John, look here: http://rollybrook.com/article_106.htm

The one and only time I had a cop challenge my registration, I showed him a copy of Article 106, and he backed down.

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Feb 28, 2008, 7:30 PM)

Ed and Fran

Feb 28, 2008, 8:04 PM

Post #29 of 34 (1330 views)

Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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I have a valid FM3 visa, but no where in the visa is there an expiration date.

Both times the officials there got all verklemmt because my FM3 visa does not have an expiration date in it.

And, as they stated: "We can only issue a permit up to the time your visa expires." Both times they formed a small committee there in the office to determine which of the two dates stamped and legible in the visa to use: the date the visa was issued in San Francisco, or the date when I first crossed into Mexico.

Well, I don't think that your FM3 is any different than any other. They don't show an expiration date, prior to the first renewal. The first line on page 4 should read "Este documento faculta a su titular a permanecer en el pais, en calidad de No Inmigrante...' and a duration, typically "Un año, 365 días". So you are allowed to remain in country 365 days. On page 3 the date is stamped when you entered the country. That's when the clock starts running on your 365 days.

Let me rephrase that. My local INAMI office interprets the 365 days as starting the day you get the FM3 document stamped at the border.

Just one more data point.

Ed

bournemouth

Feb 29, 2008, 6:21 AM

Post #30 of 34 (1309 views)

Re: [Ed and Fran] FM3 Rumor du jour

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"Let me rephrase that. My local INAMI office interprets the 365 days as starting the day you get the FM3 document stamped at the border".

Ed - the same for the office in Guadalajara. The guys at KL 21, Nogales know that an FM3 is good for 365 days - they can still issue the car permit for the time remaining from the day the FM3 was issued, even if that is not the actual date of expiry and the permit would remain valid as the FM3 is valid.

jerezano

Mar 4, 2008, 7:50 AM

Post #31 of 34 (1259 views)

Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Hello John,

I cannot believe the stupidity of the people you are dealing with about your FM3 and your temporary vehicle import permit.

Your FM3 on page 3 clearly states the date of entry into México.

Your FM3 on page 4 clearly states the date of expiry.
On mine is the statement: Fecha de vencimiento: 14 de noviembre de 2008 en virtud de la fecha de su vencimiento de su FM3 anterior No. ... etc.

Just below on line l of the printed document is the statement in Spanish that This document (FM3) allows me to remain in Mexico as a Non Immigrant but as a Visitante Rentista for 365 days.

If your FM3 does not have the expiry date typed in, as does mine, the next statement about 365 days will automatically set the expiry date at midnight of the day before you entered México, eg, if you entered on November 15, your FM3 will expire on November 14 at midnight.

What could be clearer? What more could that office want?

Can't you just show them page 3 of your FM3, and then page 4? Can't they do a bit of math?

Adiós. jerezano.

Mar 4, 2008, 8:16 AM

Post #32 of 34 (1254 views)

Re: [jerezano] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Actually, Jerezano et al, I think that is exactly what they eventually have done. They do finally piece that logic together and they issue the permit for a certain number of days that they calculate from one of the official dates they see stamped in my FM-3 visa.

Both times this has occurred it was not at Km21 rather at Empalme. Both times when I went there to get vehicle permits it was a Saturday afternoon and I was the only customer there. The second time a couple arrived just as I was wrapping up. The point is, they don't seem to get a lot of business there and I think they are more accustomed to dealing with FMT visas than FM3 visas.

The young man there showed me the place in my visa where HE said the expiration date should have been stamped by the office here in Hermosillo when I registered the visa locally. That was his opinion. And that place is on page 4 right above there it says: "Este documento faculta a su titular a permanacer en el pais........."

I have not yet renewed my FM3 visa, so the dates that others of you have described as expiration dates are not yet in my visa.

This is all quite the little tempest in a teapot anyway, at least for me. I am rarely outside the Sonora Free Zone anyway, where I do not need a vehicle permit. But I do like to stay legal so I got the two permits for a couple of brief and rare occasions when I was venturing outisde the Sonora Free Zone. I probably won't have to do that again until early next year. By then I will have renewed my FM3 visa. I am going to get a copy of the pertinent Mexican document and keep it in my car.

If I get stopped and dinged for the "expired" vehicle permit and showing them the document does not help, I suspect the fine won't be as much as a new vehicle permit anyway, and I will just pay it.

jerezano

Mar 4, 2008, 8:54 AM

Post #33 of 34 (1250 views)

Re: [JohnBleazard] FM3 Rumor du jour

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Hello John,

You said:>>One could argue that if I renew the FM3 visa before it expires, as I intend to do, it won't expire and so the vehicle permit won't expire either. I don't think I want to try to explain that technicality to a Mexican policeman any time soon.<<

You should not have to ever explain that to any policeman. They should know it already. But just in case, see below.

You should carry in your car a copy of the appropriate section of the Law Aduanero. That law states very clearly that the temporary importation permit for the car remains in effect so long as your Immigration status is effective. Go to Rolly's site to download a copy of that section, print it out, and keep it in your car. I used to carry one all the time before I got a Mexican-plated car and I did have to show it twice years and years back, before the adueneros were so well instructed.

As to renewing your FM3, you should be advised that you have 30 days in which to do it before your FM3 expires. And in most regions you cannot apply for renewal before that 30 day period begins. I understand that in exceptional circumstances, the Immigration Service MAY let you make the application early. It depends upon the flexibility of your local office.

As I mentioned in an earlier post somewhere in answer to one of your earlier postings, my immigration office here in Zacatecas on a renewal FM3 always types in the expiry date of the renewed FM3. Your office may or may not. But again, the expiry date is as of midnight the day before you entered Mexico for the first time on your FM3. It is NOT the date of issue, as your Aduanero people there in Sonora have decided in the past. Nor is that expiry date on your temporary import certificate of any effect (or use, or importance) so long as you maintain your immigration status. Your FM3 is what determines when the temporary import certificate runs out.

As to getting a new permit to enter Mexico every time I leave here (which I do at least 4 times a year) I personally cannot advise that. Why pay extra money and go through the hassle for something that is not necessary? Of course, if you are worried about theft of your vehicle or some such, then why not? But I have enough to worry about without asking for more.

You also said:>>If I get stopped and dinged for the "expired" vehicle permit and showing them the document does not help, I suspect the fine won't be as much as a new vehicle permit anyway, and I will just pay it.

If you have a copy of the appropriate section of the Ley Aduenero and show it to the "policeman" you will not be fined. But if he insists that would be a mordida. My Mexican friends tell me that it is well recognized here all over Mexico that the maximum mordida is $200 pesos. Do not pay more than that. The policeman making the demand will no doubt accept that. If not, become adamant and roll with the punches. You can always report name rank and number to the Department of Tourism which believe it or not, does have some weight and will get back to that policeman sooner or later. And he knows it.

By the way, for what it is worth, I am now driving a Mexican plated vehicle and the last 5 times I have reentered Mexico with my FM3 in my hand, that FM3 has NOT been looked at, nor even asked for. I have just been waived on through. So, it just might be worth while to pay the extra money for a Mexican vehicle. Temporary liablility insurance for the USA is cheap.

Adiós. jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Mar 4, 2008, 9:45 AM)

Mar 4, 2008, 3:37 PM

Post #34 of 34 (1221 views)