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NinaNina

Mar 12, 2007, 1:06 PM

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Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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All right, now that we're down to 4 1/2 months until the move SOB, it's time to get serious in our planning:

Where do you score good coffee (beans or prepared) in Oaxaca city?

Because, I am telling you, it was some hard times when we lived there before. My husband finally found a guy who was selling beans from under a stairway in a random building around the corner from Santo Domingo. Our dealer kept the beans in a drawer of an old desk and, while they weren't coffee snob premium quality, they were paradise compared to the Nescafe-a-la-second-class-bus-station.

geri

Mar 12, 2007, 1:27 PM

Post #2 of 62 (6869 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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It must have been several years since you've been to Oaxaca. Years ago, when you ordered coffee here you got a cup of hot water and a jar of Nescafe. Not any more! There are many, dozens in fact, of gourmet coffee cafes in Oaxaca...you can't miss them. But for the best coffee to make yourself....beans or molido....go to the Friday organic market at Pochote. To get there, take Calle Garcia Vigil north until you see the arches on the west side, scrunch down and enter and voila! you will be in the organic market (I think it happens on Sat too. I only go on Fridays. ) The bags of coffee that I buy from the vendor there are the best...at least that's what my guests tell me!! Cheap too. A 35 peso bag lasts me a long time because it's so concentrated. The area is also known as Los Arcos.

Enjoy Oaxaca!

Bubba

Mar 12, 2007, 2:25 PM

Post #3 of 62 (6862 views)

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Re: [geri] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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There are many, dozens in fact, of gourmet coffee cafes in Oaxaca...you can't miss them.

Well, geri, I´ve sure managed to miss them. I have never had a decent cup of coffee in Oaxaca City and I visit often - my last trip having been in December, 2006. You are not likely to find one coffee house in the zocalo or affluent areas of Oaxaca where the staff is sufficiently skilled to make a fine brew. Keep in mind that I happen to be a big fan of Oaxaca , Chiapas and Veracruz coffees but ordinary people simply don´t drink good coffee, or even bad, coffee in these regions for the most part. They do not even like nor drink coffee and if you get out of the wealthy or tourist oriented areas the coffee is utterly dreadful at all times. I am pleased to say that that is changing slowly. Perhaps this organic coffee market is an answer but, with due respect to geri, I seriously doubt it.

Some points:

* The best coffee beans in "southern Mexico" (Oaxaca, Chiapas & Veracruz) are grown for export not local consumption in an area where the consumption of coffee is not valued. If you find "gourmet" coffee in retail batches in Oaxaca it is likely that it is a tourist ripoff in a fine bag filled with mediocre coffee.

To find really good coffee in this region, concentrate on the historical center of San Cristóbal or Veracruz. My favorite cafe in San Cristóbal is owned by the coffee fincas themselves as a co-operative so they get (some of ) the good beans.

Look, this is not an attack on geri but, think about it. You are going to buy a $35 Peso ( really cheap but size not stated) bag of "concentrated" coffee that is not the dregs? Get serious - the coffee brokers can clean up on great coffee shipping it out of Oaxaca. They are selling you a concept of buying coffee in Oaxaca which might not even be from Oaxaca - not good coffee. Would you expect to go to Havana and buy the best Cuban Rum for peanuts in a local market?

Oaxaca is a beautiful place and geri´s "organic" market may be very nice but I expect you will get better coffee in Chicago.

Don´t come to Mexico for the food or drink.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 12, 2007, 3:51 PM)

Gringal

Mar 12, 2007, 2:58 PM

Post #4 of 62 (6859 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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"Don´t come to Mexico for the food or drink. "

Depends on what your expectations are, Mr. Gourmet foodie and drinkee. If you have 150 pesos to spend on comida in Mexico, you'll do way better than you would at that price in San Francisco. Or Whine Country. Or are some of us only remembering how dining was when we had the good jobs or were "comped"? Hmmm?

Somewhere beyond the hot water and Nescafe lies a decent cuppa. I've been served the acceptable stuff in most sit-down restaurants. Even in Peoria-by-the-sump.

I do have to agree about "concentrated" coffee, though. I'd be suspicious.

Brian

Mar 12, 2007, 3:29 PM

Post #5 of 62 (6853 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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If you have 150 pesos to spend on comida in Mexico, you'll do way better than you would at that price in San Francisco.

Wow, I'll take that bet....you obviously didn't spend much time in Chinatown when you were up there. Continued Asian immigration and competition has kept the prices low and quality of the food high at all but the restaurants listed in the tourist guides.

Brian

Bubba

Mar 12, 2007, 3:31 PM

Post #6 of 62 (6850 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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If you have 150 pesos to spend on comida in Mexico, you'll do way better than you would at that price in San Francisco. Or Whine Country.

I promise you Gringal, that you can get a fine complete meal for a hell of a lot less that $150 Pesos in San Francisco including beer or wine. And you can choose among Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese, Malay, Tibetan, Ethiopian, Afganistani, Mexican, Greek, Lebanese, Southern U.S., Indian, Various Caribbean, Cuban, Peruvian, Persian, Brazilian food or on-and-on-and-on and Bubba can head back down to Birmingham and buy about 30 Cheese Krystal Burgers for that which would fill a goat. And, on top of it, most of the time you don´t need a stomach pump the next morning.

When you finish your meal you can enjoy Arabic, Vietnamese, Turkish, Italian, French, American, Cuban or a dozen other varieties of coffee or a thousand varieties of teas or maybe curdled Yak milk and hot rancid butter with Somalian Khat and still be spending less that $150 Pesos. Who do you think you are kidding? People in this country don´t know good coffee from Adam´s housecat unless they follow Bubba around.

Even the Mexican food is better in San Francisco´s Mission (Latin) District than in most of Mexico and at least as cheap.
You have lived in San Miguel too long.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 12, 2007, 3:40 PM)

Gringal

Mar 12, 2007, 4:51 PM

Post #7 of 62 (6830 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I lived in S.F. and environs for years; in San Miguel for three. I note that ALL the places you mentioned were ethnic food joints. I was referring to the kind of places most "foodies" frequent. You know, arugula with baby funt fish eggs for an outrageous price. My point, godhalpus, was that if you headed for a "white tablecloth restaurant" in Mexico, you could get a better meal for your $150 pesos than in its "counterpart" in the U.S. Lets keep the veggies and fruits in different baskets here.

Yes, I'd take the Chinese, Thai or any other variety you mentioned over Mexican any day, any time.

And don't get me started on that Crystal Burger train of thought. Sliders, indeed. That is not FOOD. It is sweet memories of high school and Betty Jo.

I do grant you the point that Mexican food in CA is a lot better than Mexican food in Mexico. There has to be a reason for Mexican workers being lined up at the Taco Bell in Santa Cruz.

Mea culpa, already.
Sort of.

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Mar 12, 2007, 5:29 PM

Post #8 of 62 (6825 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Just as Chinese food NOB is American Chinese food made to please the NOB pallett, I've found that the same applies NOB to Mexican food with the possible exception of both mentioned of "true" ethnic food eateries. Just depends upon what one has been raised on and is accustomed to. Don't think this applies to coffee though.
Getting older and still not down here.

Bubba

Mar 12, 2007, 7:07 PM

Post #9 of 62 (6814 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Just as Chinese food NOB is American Chinese food made to please the NOB pallett, I've found that the same applies NOB to Mexican food with the possible exception of both mentioned of "true" ethnic food eateries

Ron and Gringal:

There is a miscommunication taking place here. When I stated that Mexican and other Latin American food prepared and presented in San Francisco´s Mission District was generally better than Mexican food in much of Mexico (read Latin American food) I was talking about Mexican, Central American, Caribbean and South American food prepared in a vibrant and cosmopolitan Latin American community catering to Latin American tastes in San Francisco - not NOB tastes. There is so much misunderstanding here.

Gringal remarks about Taco Bell in Santa Cruz and, as much as I like and admire Gringal, that misses the point entirely. I give her credit that she was joking but this is fairly serious stuff and trivializes my point.

The energy and cosmopolitan environment of a London or a Paris generates an enthusiasm for native cuisines among immigrants to those places as in San Francisco so one finds some of the best authentic East Indian food in the world in London and best authentic North African and West African food in the world in Paris. In San Francisco, the enthusiasm of the entrepreneurial immigants attracted to that cultural soup of The Mission attracts competitive and creative chefs who build on and improve old traditions. In my hometown of Ajijic, every mom within blocks sets up to sell her leftovers and the standards for taste and cleanliness are deplorable. This happens in The Mission as well but for mainstream success in The Mission you had better have some talent. In Ajijic, the standards among locals and expats alike are deplorable and the food is mediocre at best.

The gene pool is improved by the mix. You hang around the woods in Mexico or the United States or France or anywhere else and you become limited and yourself eventually a product of re-used grease and tired, uninterested people who never had the guts to enter the Sherwood Forest. That´s the way it is.

The best Arab markets in the world are in Paris, not religiously fundamental Algiers just as the best coffee markets in the world are in many places internationally but never in Oaxaca, an insular, self-satisfied place of only regional importance.

Ajijic and Oaxaca and San Miguel and other expat conclaves are becoming victims of their own mental inbreeding whether they like to hear that or not. They suffer from defensive self-aggrandizement. It´s rather sad.

Prove me wrong. Let´s get the blood up.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 12, 2007, 7:35 PM)

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Mar 12, 2007, 7:40 PM

Post #10 of 62 (6803 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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No arguement from me Bubba. The places you refer to are those that I would consider ethnic type restaurants which probably have higher prices. I'm speaking mostly of the, how can I phrase it.....The middle of the pack that caters to the majority of the folks, not the Taco Bells & fast food joints, but the walk in, wait to be seated restaurants that claim to be Mexican, Chinese, etc. These sell American style ethnic foods that were created for our consumption & taste, unlike the native foods of those countries which most of us might never let pass our lips due to what it is made from and the way it is prepared.
Coffee is different as coffee seems to be universally prepared the same the same no matter where you are. It's just that there are good coffee beans and bad coffee beans, but all are roasted. Some under and some over roasted and some are just right (depending upon ones own taste buds)..

I never did figure out how to get fries with my hamburgesa on my short visit last year.......
Getting older and still not down here.

esperanza

Mar 12, 2007, 7:48 PM

Post #11 of 62 (6801 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I never did figure out how to get fries with my hamburgesa on my short visit last year.......

Just order papas a la francesa...

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

NinaNina

Mar 12, 2007, 8:16 PM

Post #12 of 62 (6795 views)

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Re: [geri] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Oh, Geri, I am filled with emoticons at the notion that there may be better coffee for my husband (not Bubba-certified level, but improved), whose constant refrain a decade ago was about how this little place had opened, but then closed, and it had the only acceptable cuppa, and so on.

I used to walk around Los Arcos a bit, but maybe that was before the organic market days. It seems to me Oaxaca may have changed more than I could imagine.

And in regard to food, well, I never once found in SF, Oakland, Berkeley, the kind of super-funky inky inky mole that the cook at Maria Bonita conujred up in Oaxaca city. But maybe I didn't bother to look too hard, because, for me, the food and the city belonged together. And in regard to Bay Area prices, I noticed quite a few ethnic restaurants inching up their prices in the last 3-4 years I was in the Bay Area, as the real estate boom boomed ever larger. My husband and I had a strict $10 per person limit on going out, and our choices of restaurants were ever-winnowing.

sfmacaws

Mar 12, 2007, 8:33 PM

Post #13 of 62 (6792 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Don't forget the wonderful Indian food in London where you don't have to worry that the meat spoiled last week but the curry is covering the stench.

I lived in SF and environs and worked there for 30 years and there was never a dearth of new restaurants to try or old favorites to share with friends. Still, I think some of the hygiene requirements were a big plus. Granted, the health dept crew that checked the Chinese restaurants in Chinatown and out in the Avenues was overworked and often bribed. The ones who worked the Mission had the same problems but on a smaller scale. Still, the meat they started with in almost all cases was cleaner and more regulated. That's the plus side. The minus side is that there was a limited supply of street food and some types of Mexican food just would never be allowed in the US. I never saw Tacos al Pastor (or Elotes con Mayonesa from an open unrefrigerated jar)on a street corner in the Mission, it may be there but I'm sure it is prepared differently or the health dept would have a hissy fit.

OK, all that aside. The best Mexican food in the Bay Area is not in the Mission but in San Jose. The best Mexican food in California is somewhere around Fresno and the Mexican food in LA is head and shoulders above that in SF. In addition to having the best Mexican food, LA has the best hamburgers in the WORLD and at one point in my life I decided that was the definition of the center of the Known Universe. Tommy's was the thing all the galaxies revolved around. Who knows if it's still there so maybe the galaxies now move around a different axis.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Mar 13, 2007, 7:35 AM

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Re: [sfmacaws] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I decided that was the definition of the center of the Known Universe. Tommy's was the thing all the galaxies revolved around. Who knows if it's still there so maybe the galaxies now move around a different axis.

We were in agreement more or less up until then but you were talking about L.A. and then brought up Tommy´s. You would not perhaps be talking about Tommy´s Joynt on Van Ness in San Francisco would you? Buffalo Stew? 10,000 beers? Tommy´s was what is known in California as a "hofbrau" style place and while I would not agree that the food was any good (if that´s the place you are talking about) I used to love to go there to quaff Bulmer´s Woodpecker Cider- several at a time.

I don´t know if Tommy´s is still there but, through my banking connections, I knew Tommy many years back and he be dead.

By the way there are so many wonderful coffee joints in San Francisco that it is coffee Lourdes while Oaxaca isn´t even in the same universe and Peets of Berkeley (brand) is the holy communion "wine" of the high cathedral. When you visit me in Chiapas, I expect you to bring me a little of the best coffee on the planet (yes. I know, coals to Newcastle but coffee roasting is an art).

You and I know that the closest California comes to street food is the ubiquitous roach coach where you can get some fine street food if you don´t stop to think about it. This is a public health issue. In the 60s when I first moved to L.A. al fresco dining at restaurants was illegal because the authorities considered outside serving to be unhealthy. Come to think of it, with their smog back then, maybe they were right.

Last night, while driving through the poor Six Corners section of Ajijic, I noted at least three community ladies selling elotes con mayonesa on the main drag of Ocampo. Both steamed and al carbon. I buy from them because I am fond of the toothsome, non-sweet, old fashioned corn to which Mexicans are partial but I never let them slather on their cheap unrefrigerated mayonnaise and bland Mexican cheese. I like to take the elotes home and use Best Foods Mayo, real grated parmesan, cumin powder and ground chile arbol. A fine treat. Elotes vendors can be found on many street corners in San Cristóbal as well and probably all over Mexico. At least with the corn, if you get the turista you may enjoy it.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 13, 2007, 11:04 AM)

Brian

Mar 13, 2007, 7:44 AM

Post #15 of 62 (6764 views)

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In Reply To

We were in agreement more or less up until then but you were talking about L.A. and then brought up Tommy´s. You would not perhaps be talking about Tommy´s Joynt on Van Ness in San Francisco would you?

No,no,no.....LA has it's own Tommy's tradition. Look here: http://www.originaltommys.com/story.html

Brian

sfmacaws

Mar 13, 2007, 10:02 AM

Post #16 of 62 (6750 views)

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Re: [Brian] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Brian's got it! The best hamburger in the universe came from Tommy's on Beverly not Tommy's Joint on Van Ness.

It seems they are not only still in business but have spread throughout the LA Basin. I will have to have one this summer and see if they still compare to those in my memory.

Thanks for that link.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Gringal

Mar 13, 2007, 10:31 AM

Post #17 of 62 (6747 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Yes. Fresno, of all places. Spent some time there on business. There's a large Armenian population and their restaurants are food heaven.

Then there's L.A., also a mecca for good eating. I'm still savoring the distant memory of pizza cum opera at Macelli's. Original Tommy's gets a vote, too.

Irony: You don't necessarily get the best ethnic food in the country of origin. In Italy, the pizza is nada and the "Italian" food is usually better elsewhere. Mexican food is better in the Mission district of S.F. Chinese-food-loving friends went to China and were disappointed, except for one very high end hotel that catered to tourists.

We can't discount the observation that chefs NOB adjust the cuisine to please NOB tastes, Or that our tastes are trained so we can't appreciate the authentic flavos.

Re street food: When the food is prepared and served by the same person taking the money sans gloves, alarms go off. There is no way to enjoy turista, which I have also experienced after eating in the "finer" restaurants in Mexico as well as the taco joints.

Bubba's point about the natives resenting the foreigners, whether expressed openly or not, is true enough. If I expected the Mexican people to have good feelings about me, deep down, I would be unhappy here. All I expect of my fellow humans is the same level of politeness that I offer them in return. Plus, I tip generously. What kind of feelings can we expect, anyway, from waiters who probably don't earn as much in a day as the cost of our dinner? We live like royalty here because the economy produces so many poor people.
They see our lifestyle and, like the poor everywhere, are envious and resentful. Life is unfair, everywhere. The utter fools among expats are those that mistake a pleasant smile for true affection.

Now, back to our discussion is about where to find the finest food and coffee.

Bubba

Mar 13, 2007, 11:13 AM

Post #18 of 62 (6740 views)

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Re: [Brian] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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No,no,no.....LA has it's own Tommy's tradition. Look here: http://www.originaltommys.com/story.html

Well, damn. I lived in Hermosa Beach and later in Hollywood and never knew about this place. All those Hamburger Haven burgers and no Tommy´s At least, Brian, you have restored my faith in Jonna´s taste. If she had meant Tommy´s Joynt I would have been soarly disappointed but she was a San Francisco County employee for some time headquartered near there and that´s where I figured she might hang-out once in a while.

Actually, I didn´t know what I should about L.A. despite living there because my boss hated me and had me permanantly traveling to the dreaded San Joaquin Valley in hopes I would quit - especially the much despised Fresno -the worst town in the Universe. There, however, I did often eat at the famous Rustigan´s Armenian Restaurant.

Speaking of Armenian food from Fresno, you can buy Armenian Cracker Bread at Super Lake in San Antonio Tlayacapan on occasion and make those supurb Lavosch sandwiches right here in Mexico. I will be scoring cracker bread at Lake Chapala for my Chiapas care package.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 13, 2007, 11:20 AM)

Bubba

Mar 13, 2007, 11:52 AM

Post #19 of 62 (6731 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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You know, many of you may find this an irritating post but the subject is Oaxaca so here goes.

I have a love/hate relationship with Oaxaca and, actually it is the city we were most likely to retire to in Mexico when we started considering such a move. The city has an extraordinary historic center of great beauty in my opinion but the city as a whole is close to anarchic even in good times with uncontrolled and extraordinarily rude drivers (give me Mexico City anyday), terrible noise and air pollution, completely undisciplined, dangerous and unaccountable bus drivers, seemingly unplanned and irrational traffic patterns and residential/commercial growth, immense and ingrained political corruption, unbelievable inequity in delivery of infrastructural municipal services, a disparity of wealth distribution that borders on criminal and worst of all:

Lousy food and lousy coffee. Not only that, even the best of its much touted mezcal can´t hold a candle to even bad tequila.

I have eaten in many restaurants and ordered coffee in many cafes in Oaxaca and every single meal or cup of coffee I have ever ordered in Oaxaca has been dreadful with one exception. The original Casa Oaxaca restaurant used to be supurb. Of fine European standards. They went south for a while since they opened that branch but I hope they have recovered their common sense. I will try them again on our next visit.

We looked at Oaxaca, Mérida and San Cristóbal as potential places for our Southern Mexico headquarters and, while the food is not so great in Chiapas either, at least they can make a fine cup of coffee. Actually, San Cristóbal and Chiapas as a whole do have many problems as well but San Cristóbal is between Oaxaca City and Mérida (my other two favorite cities in Mexico) and that´s a plus.

But, God are the most highly touted restaurants in Oaxaca overrated. They tend to be greasy street stalls or tourist traps of no merit.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 13, 2007, 11:54 AM)

Gringal

Mar 13, 2007, 2:42 PM

Post #20 of 62 (6711 views)

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A friend of mine from New York City used to say: "If ya want good food, eat ta home". After checking out most of the highly touted SMA eateries, we mostly "eat ta home" these days. Between Superlake and your own culinary efforts, you should have a fine spread.

wendy devlin

Mar 13, 2007, 3:55 PM

Post #21 of 62 (6705 views)

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Before, you foodies, erupt in a collective apoplectic fit:)

Consider this señor(a)...All food is good food when you're hungry.

Then, there's the niggling notion of 'comfort food'.
A Buddhist monk pal once advised, "when you're truly happy, you can digest rocks.

Never been able to personally prove this....still gnawing on a particular not-so-tasty rock:)

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Mar 13, 2007, 6:59 PM)

Gringal

Mar 13, 2007, 4:52 PM

Post #22 of 62 (6693 views)

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Who was it that said "The secret of good cowboy cooking is hunger"?

Right on, Wendy. Good luck with that rock. Try some salsa on it . If that doesn't do it, try the tequila.

wendy devlin

Mar 13, 2007, 6:55 PM

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That might work.

Even cowgirls get the blues:)

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Mar 13, 2007, 7:18 PM)

Bloviator

Mar 14, 2007, 6:56 AM

Post #24 of 62 (6663 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I think that Tommy's is still there, we went past last week and it looked the same. I had forgotten the name, but your posting reminded me.

When in an unnamed and very nondescript college, we used to go there at night for roast beef sandwiches and more beer after a night out in The City.

There are no hamburgers better than those at Fat Burger. Not at Tommy's, Original Tommy's, Tommy's #1 through Tommy's #32, not even the ambrosia burger at Nepenthe - though the view and ambiance more than make up for any lack of superiority.

Bubba

Mar 14, 2007, 7:24 AM

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After checking out most of the highly touted SMA eateries, we mostly "eat ta home" these days. Between Superlake and your own culinary efforts, you should have a fine spread.

The same is true of San Cristóbal. The restaurants in the town wear thin very fast. We can´t wait for our house to be ready with it´s huge kitchen. Then it´s off to the indigenous market for fruits and vegetables and to find good sources for meats, fish and and poultry so we can cook at home. Not only is the restaurant scene in San Cristóbal mediocre for the most part but I get sick every time I go there which reminds me of the story I told earlier. When returning from Chiapas to Oaxaca City quite ill from food poisoning, I was presumed by a doctor in Juchitan, Oaxaca to have amoebas without any tests - just based on the fact that I had spent the past month in Chiapas eating in restaurants. I think the Oaxaca State doctors have a low opinion of the Chiapas food chain.

jacpowell

Mar 14, 2007, 10:53 AM

Post #26 of 62 (3608 views)

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Coffee in Oaxaca City. We are coffee freaks - not in the Peets and other chi-chi class, but addicts. We do enjoy good coffee when we can find it, and at home we order ground coffee and occasionally beans from a place that imports fair trade, some of it from Mexico.

Here in Oaxaca we buy at the little coffee shop on the top end of Cinco de Mayo. They are having a bit of a hard time without the usual tourist influx, but they are helpful and their shop is convenient to us. Unlike, Pochote, it is open all week (except maybe Sunday). It is a few doors down from Gecko Cafe, which is on the east side of 5 de Mayo. They have been out of decaff since we came here in January. I can't tell you the price because we just "Buy Coffee, Any Coffee Regardless of Price." It is, however, better than what you can buy packaged at Pitico or Gigante.

I think Geri meant that the coffee is stronger here, maybe because of how it's roasted or grown, and not that it has been concentrated by processing.

By the way, Oaxaquenos are incredulous that we gringos give directions using points of the compass. They don't know south from sugar. They go by "at the corner of X and Y streets", which means it's maybe somewhere within in a block in any of four directions from that corner, or they tell directions from where you are in blocks and corners and rights and lefts. You can always ask again later....and we've always found the place we're looking for.

hopalog

Mar 16, 2007, 7:10 AM

Post #27 of 62 (3581 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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I have absolutely no advice for finding good coffee in Oaxaca but thank you so much for your post. I'm feeling very happy about our decision to stock up in Veracruz. I think Veracruz is my new favorite state. From the little caferterias in Xilitla and San Rafael to the mega cafeterias in Xico and Coatepec, we did well with coffee beans. :)

Here in PaaMul you can get Chiapas coffee for only 65 pesos a pound! What what a steal! /sarcasm

Hell's Half Acre

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Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 8:43 AM

Post #28 of 62 (3567 views)

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Re: [jacpowell] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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We are coffee freaks - not in the Peets and other chi-chi class

Now, now, JacPowell, Peets is not chi-chi coffee. Peet is (or was) a Dutch fellow who moved to Berkeley and started his own unique coffee and tea emporium there in the 1960s (I believe). His style of roasting coffee beans, whereever they may have been grown, is his trademark. His Dark French and espresso roasts are wonderful if you like strong bitter (in a nice sense) coffee.When he started, Berkeley and San Francisco´s North Beach Italian neighborhood were among the few places in California where one could buy espresso and the myriad products arising from that brew.

People who worked for Peet started Starbucks in Seattle. Peet taught them what they know about roasting coffee but Peet was absolutely opposed to expansion and branching out of Berkeley for many years although he eventually did some branching in the Bay Area and also started selling fresh coffee beans by mail. When I worked in the Napa Valley, I introduced my fellow bankers in St. Helena to dark roast Peets and they flipped over it. We had Peets coffee delivered every week.

Peet was convinced that expansion (a la Starbucks) would invariably destroy the quality of the product and he was dead on right. There is nothing more personal that the art of roasting coffee. You cannot industrialize this process and make great coffee. People today worship Starbucks coffee because they never tasted great coffee.

Peet is my hero.

Almost anything you buy at a store is of marginal quality no matter how pretty the package. Sorry, but that´s a fact.

I have managed to find wonderful coffee (organic beans from Oaxaca, Chiapas and Veracruz) in Ajijic at Café Grano Café across from the Parroquia. In San Cristóbal I buy excellent coffee at several places but my favorite is the Coffee Museum, a great place for espresso and a small tour of the history of coffee growing in the Chiapas fincas. This place became a political hot potato with the Zapatista uprising but they have calmed down now.

When I return to Chiapas, I plan to do the coffee trail in the Soconusco and then I´ll do the same thing at Coatepec in Veracruz State. I know coffee growers and brokers in both places. These places are as Mecca and Lourdes for guys like me.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 9:01 AM)

Brian

Mar 16, 2007, 9:01 AM

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In Reply To

Peet was absolutely opposed to expansion and branching out of Berkeley for many years although he eventually did some branching in the Bay Area and also started selling fresh coffee beans by mail.

What a coincidence, last week during a trip to Tijuana, my wife and I dropped in at Peet's in the Hillcrest area of San Diego and brought back six pounds of French Roast. It's kind of an upscale section of SD, IMHO, but I'm glad Peet decided to setup shop there.

Brian

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 9:27 AM

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What a coincidence, last week during a trip to Tijuana, my wife and I dropped in at Peet's in the Hillcrest area of San Diego and brought back six pounds of French Roast. It's kind of an upscale section of SD, IMHO, but I'm glad Peet decided to setup shop there.

You know, Brian, for reasons that escape me, I´m actually beginning to like you. I wonder if Peet is still with us since back in the 70s he was inalterably opposed to branching out his business. That really is probably the reason his ex-employees who started Starbucks became Gazillionaires while he farted away in the Bay Area thinking, somehow, that producing something of sublime quality was more important than rolling in dough.

What is interesting to me is that, as one grows older and has enough assets to see him through this odd experience with comfort, accumulation of wealth becomes less important than the notion that one can sit in one´s garden and sip fine coffee made by an artisan who maintains his standards despite the fact that he could sell his skills to the highest bidder even though the final product would suffer greatly and (this is important) over the years, people would still worship the greatly diminished experience thought to be that thing historically treasured.

If people don´t know what they are missing then they are missing nothing. How could Bubba ever miss the indescribable experience of tasting a truly great Bordeaux if he had no idea what a great Bordeaux was to begin with.Had Bubba not married a woman later to become involved in the French wine trade, Bubba would have gone through life as a South Alabama redneck thinking Jim Beam was the closest thing to heaven on Earth.

Perhaps doing something well - anything actually - is more important than being planted with a large bank account.

There are no pockets in a shroud.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 9:39 AM)

Gringal

Mar 16, 2007, 9:43 AM

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"Perhaps doing something well - anything actually - is more important than being planted with a large bank account. There are no pockets in a shroud. "

Dang, Bubba, that's downright profound. Now, if I could just get some Peet's coffee, life on earth would be just about perfect.

sfmacaws

Mar 16, 2007, 10:45 AM

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I don't know if old man Peet died or sold out or changed his mind, but I now buy my Peet's coffee in the upscale version of Von's,called Pavilions. There are also Peet's coffeehouses (a la Starbucks) all over Calif. The coffee is still better than Starbucks if that's any consolation. You can't get a vanilla, frappe, mocha grande there either, you can get iced in the desert and either espresso or latte everywhere, no flavors and no sno cones. I prefer the Major Dickson blend but also like the House blend.

---says Jonna while sipping her Major Dickson blend made in the AeroPress down here on the Santa Barbara coast of Mexico. I've done quite well in anticipating my coffee use this year, I still have a pound or two left.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 10:55 AM

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---says Jonna while sipping her Major Dickson blend made in the AeroPress down here on the Santa Barbara coast of Mexico. I've done quite well in anticipating my coffee use this year, I still have a pound or two left.

The Bubba casa in either Ajijic or San Cristóbal is your casa but you had better Goddamned well show up there with some of that Peets Coffee or your bed will be in the plaza. However, just in case you forget we are off to the Coffee Museum in San Cristóbal where they love Ms Bubba. When we leave there we will be wired.

sfmacaws

Mar 16, 2007, 11:02 AM

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If I have any left I'll add it to the bags of frozen rutabega that I've been carrying around all winter along with the stone ground designer corn grits from one of the Carolinas but you damn well better be somewhere I can find you in about 3 weeks. Otherwise I'm going to give it all to Anita and she can dole it out as she sees fit ;)

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 11:19 AM

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Otherwise I'm going to give it all to Anita and she can dole it out as she sees fit ;)

Anita!!!!!

You would desecrate the holy grit by giving it to Anita AKA NEOhio AKA several other noms de plume whose sorry butt is from Texas and who had the temerity to live in Cleveland, Bal´mar and Ajijic? What do you think this heathen would do with the heavenly grit? Feed it to her possums?

You do that and the fine 12 year old Havana Club Dark Rum I have been saving for you will be replaced by repulsive Nicarauguan Flor de Caña that you couldn´t give away even in Tyler, Texas.

As for the rutabaga, that is more important than the coffee. Brigitte has discovered that both turnip roots and greens are sold in the indigenous market in San Cristóbal but no rutabagas. Bring down those rutabagas and I will make you an Algerian cous cous that will blow you away.*

* Brigitte´s old boy friend was a Tunisian Arab/Jew who was a fabulous cook. I never cared that much about sex so, although I love Brigitte dearly, I would have left her and moved in with him in a New York second for his cous cous and he was kind of cute to boot..

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 11:34 AM)

hopalog

Mar 16, 2007, 4:35 PM

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Holy crap Bubba. You keep talking your coffee porn and I'm going to have to hunt you down, tie you up and drag your sorry ass to the cafeterias of Coatepec. I would die a thousand deaths to hang out with coffee growers. Were it not for 4 little rug rats that I love dearly, Jamie and I would still be making puppy dog faces at the growers we found in La Grande (just outside Coatepec) and San Marcos (between Coatepec and Xico) so they'd take us around and show us the sons and daughters of the great god Coffee.

I will now spoil this entire post and admit that while Jamie creams at the thought of Peets, I find it just too bitter for me.

Hell's Half Acre

Flickrlicious

(This post was edited by hopalog on Mar 16, 2007, 4:37 PM)

Bubba

Mar 16, 2007, 5:39 PM

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I would die a thousand deaths to hang out with coffee growers

Hopalog:

I share your shameless goal and plan to meet coffee growers/brokers in The Soconusco and around Coatepec within the next couple of months, God willing. Somehow I´ll arrange the same event in Oaxaca.

Coffee Porn. I lake that.

I´m an old guy and it´s time to visit Mecca before it´s too late.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 16, 2007, 5:40 PM)

jacpowell

Mar 20, 2007, 12:37 PM

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As usual, I'm a little slow on the uptake here because I don't get to the internet connection very often. I have to tell you the sad news that there is now a Peets in Denver.

I wasn't sure whether Peets was all that good or whether it was just a cult sort of thing (which I continue to suspect, after the above exchanges.) A person who lives in my little town in Colorado moved there from Berkeley and he raved about it all the time. Since he raved about everything in Berkeley (and has not taken our gentle hints that perhaps he would be happier if he moved back) we aren't able to differentiate.

When there is a Peets in Oaxaca City, then you will need to worry. There are certainly enough Italian Coffee Company outlets, all over Mexico. They are without fail on or very near the Zocalo, as well as in other locations around the cities. We have bought decaf from them in a pinch, but since I don't do decaf (Gary does) I can't attest to its quality.

Jackie

hopalog

Mar 20, 2007, 7:04 PM

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Jamie, who flaunts his ass in my avatar, is a real coffee snob. Well, not so much a snob as he loves good espresso. He doesn't really care about the brand, as long as it is good. He LOVED the coffee at the Italian Coffee Company in Monte Gordo Veracruz (Emerald Coast).

Hell's Half Acre

Flickrlicious

Bubba

Mar 20, 2007, 8:05 PM

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I wasn't sure whether Peets was all that good or whether it was just a cult sort of thing (which I continue to suspect, after the above exchanges.) A person who lives in my little town in Colorado moved there from Berkeley and he raved about it all the time. Since he raved about everything in Berkeley (and has not taken our gentle hints that perhaps he would be happier if he moved back) we aren't able to differentiate.

When there is a Peets in Oaxaca City, then you will need to worry. There are certainly enough Italian Coffee Company outlets, all over Mexico. They are without fail on or very near the Zocalo, as well as in other locations around the cities. We have bought decaf from them in a pinch, but since I don't do decaf (Gary does) I can't attest to its quality.

I have been out of the U.S. since 2001 and out of San Francisco (as a resident) since about 1995 so, when I read JacPowell´s comments about Peets, I had to look into something that has really not interested me in many years. Alfred Peet started his coffee and tea import company in the 1960s at age 46 but sold his company to a publicly held entity in 1979 so I´m a bit behind the times. Apparently, they are expanding all over the U.S. He is still alive in his mid-80s but is not a force in the company anymore.

Interesting. I haven´t had a cup of Peets since about 2001 so I have no idea where they are going today. If they are going the way of Starbucks then they are certainly gone as far as I´m concerned. There does seem to be a cult element about the brand now.

Peets had and probably has a unique way of brewing coffee that emphasized a dark and bitter roast that was quite good in its day. I can´t speak of them today.

I can´t imagine Peets moving into the clearly unsophisticated Oaxaca City coffee market unless it is to attract tourists around the zocalo. Oaxacans in general know nothing about coffee and that is a sad fact. On the other hand, urban areas in Chiapas have good to great coffee. I´ll bet they also drink great coffee in parts of Veracruz state and city.

There are also wonderful coffee houses in Guadalajara these days.

The Italian Coffee Company outlets along the autopistas are quite good especially in comparison with the usual and dreadful coffee and sandwich fare on Mexican highways. I find them much more numerous in Southern Mexico than up north but I enjoy stopping there when I spot one but, let´s face it, these are freeway pit stops.

You never know.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 20, 2007, 8:10 PM)

RonMader

Mar 22, 2007, 7:05 PM

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Mmmmmmm, coffee! Here is my Top 3 list of Best Coffee in Oaxaca City

Cafe La Maravilla, Pochote Market (Fridays and Saturdays) ... also establishing it's own coffeeshop two blocks north

Cafe Los Cuiles, Antonio Labastida #115, Plaza Las Virgenes

Nuevo Mundo, Bravo #206

Bubba

Mar 23, 2007, 9:52 AM

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Thank you ron. I´ll definitely try these places on my next visit.

geri

Mar 23, 2007, 1:12 PM

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It's the Cafe Maravilla brand that I buy to make coffee in my house. Bubba "suspects" its quality. Also there is, and has been for some time, an Italian Coffee place on the zocalo. Maybe the ones on the Autopista are better??? I really don't know, since I don't drink coffee except en mi casa. There's an Italian Coffee place across from Santo Domingo Church and one in Parque Llano also, and others I've seen about town, but didn't make a mental note of where. I just recently learned that it's a Mexican company, not Italian. Duh! I'm not the coffee expert that some are but Maravilla is deliciosa para mi. Ron, are you talking about where they serve it in Pochote at the outdoor tables on the north side of Pochote? I've never drank it there, but that's where I buy it to make at home.

Bubba

Mar 23, 2007, 2:50 PM

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There's an Italian Coffee place across from Santo Domingo Church and one in Parque Llano also, and others I've seen about town, but didn't make a mental note of where.

Thanks, Geri. I´ll look for those as well. Actually, I was kind of hoping some of you would tell me where to look for really good coffee since we come to Oaxaca often and I have had no luck in the past. That´s not unusual. It´s not always obvious where to look if you are not a local. There are several places I like in San Cristóbal but, except for the co-op owned Coffee Museum - my favorite - I know how to find them I can´t remember their names. San Cristóbal is quite compact so all one has to do is walk around the historic center to spot these places.

NEOhio1

Mar 23, 2007, 3:23 PM

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Bubba,

I knew my ears were burning.....my gran's cook in Deeeeeetroit taught me how to make grits the best way.......she was the only one who could understand our Texas twang/drawl when we moved north and we spent many an afternoon in the kitchen talking and eating "south" as gran called it. After the elocution guy left from the morning lessons..."rain in Spain" and all that....anyway...

here's the deal.... give me the rum to take to Jonna and I will bring back your coffee.... and keep my own counsel (for some of your coffee) about you know what......but you will have to sweat whether I will tell the story to Jonna for some of her rum.....

Oh, wait, I remember ......oh, Bubba, too bad the silence will cost you....I will give you some of MY coffee....a cup, maybe two...

Anita
Corpus Christi, Cleveland, Baltimore and Ajijic and proud of it!!

RonMader

Mar 23, 2007, 3:40 PM

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There are two coffee venders at the Pochote - Nu Van (Tierra Viva) and Maravilla. Maravilla is my favorite but Tierra Vive makes a great cappuccino.

Pics

Maravilla
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeta/40585226

Nu Van
http://www.flickr.com/...os/planeta/125422061

And for those who love the traditional markets, visit La Confianza at the Benito Juarez market
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeta/50280328

As someone who loves good coffee, I am also publishing quite a few articles on coffee production and coffee tourism on Planeta.com.

Cheers!

nancyinpdx

Apr 11, 2007, 1:21 AM

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In 1997 Hotel Las Golondrinas had pretty good coffee. Their breakdast restaurant is also open to non-guests.

nancy (aka known as 'cute_aardvark' here a long time ago)

RonMader

Apr 11, 2007, 5:06 AM

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Re: [sillyweirdo] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Golindrinas is a beautiful place!

A quick update. The new cafe run by Rocio from the Pochote Market is called La Pochotita, Rufino Tamayo #814

Photos
http://www.flickr.com/...s/planeta/439059976/
http://www.flickr.com/...os/planeta/439056459

nancyinpdx

Apr 11, 2007, 2:13 PM

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I agree that it is a beautiful place. The maids that work there were wonderful too! I have some pictures of them, I remember Rosie and she had a baby named Carlos.

(i changed my name from sillyweirdo to nancyinpdx.)

GringaGirl

Apr 21, 2009, 9:49 AM

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Although this is an answer to an older post, I have to comment. In the guide books, Oaxaca is praised for it's food. I don't know about the coffee, because I'm not much of a coffee drinker. For 150 pesos I hope I can get a good meal because in Indiana I can get a great meal for that price! In fact it's more than what I usually pay.
I did notice as I was searching for an apartment in Oaxaca online, that most were in the $1000 a month range. (I thought the cost of living was supposed to be lower in Mexico.) Once again, in Indiana a $1000 a month apartment is expensive.
I hope when I arrive I can find a reasonable apartment that is within walking distance to the zocalo.

NinaNina

Apr 21, 2009, 10:53 AM

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Hey, GringaGirl!

Imagine my surprise to see this thread revived. I thought it might be worth it to say that we've been living in Oaxaca City for nearly two years now, and we have loved the coffee. It has come a long way since the Nescafe days, though I've certainly been served Nescafe as well.

I live near the Reforma district, and there is an organic coffee spot up the block from me that roasts and grinds on-site. I've also tried Ron's recommendations at Pochote.

Your concerns about rent are valid, because there are many overpriced places marketed online. I think once you hit town you will be able to find a place much cheaper to rent than 1,000 per month! We paid less than that for a three bedroom house with a separate guest house.

Good luck.

--Serena
Have You Seen the Dog Lately?

Hound Dog

Apr 21, 2009, 4:56 PM

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Well, now, listen NinaNina:

I have no doubt we would be famously friendly if we met but I must say that if you guys are going to reopen an ancient thread regarding coffee then I may have to join in.

Just for the record, we live at Lake Chapala and in San Cristóbal de Las Casas and we drink Chiapas and Oaxaca and Veracruz coffee all the time. I contend that:

The best Oaxaca, Chiapas or Veracruz coffee I find is sold in downtown Ajijic at a fabulous place known as Cafe Grano Cafe which imports these coffees from those states and does a fabulous job of roasting and preparing those wonderful beans beyond anything I have experienced locally in those places and I spend a lot of time down there.

Finding decent coffee in Chiapas or Oaxaca state is almost impossible except in certain urban regions around principal plazas in places such as Oaxaca City or San Cristóbal de Las Casas and the standard avauilable in those states in rural regions and regional urban centers is Nescafe made with unpurified water and accompanied by erzatz "Cremola". And why is that?

Because coffee drinking is not typical of the region and most of the great coffee is grown for export.

There is no major city in which I have ever spent a significant amount of time where it is harder to find an even remotely decent cup of coffee than Oaxaca City and even then one must usually wait until mid-morning before that coffee is available. The fact is I have never even once had a memorable cup of coffee in the entire state of Oaxaca.

It took me a long time to find really good coffee in San Cristóbal but now I can tell the reader some places:

*The Museo de Cafe on Adelina Flores in the historic centro. Great coffee but mediocre food.
*La Selva Cafe (part of a Mexico City chain) not far from the Plaza Principal. Great coffee and quite good food. The best dark roast coffee here is call Cafe Cubano not French Roast. Outstanding.
*Italian Coffee Company just off the Plaza Principal. Part of the Puebla based chain of roadside cafes. Nice place to sit outside and watch the passing crowd on Calle Real de Guadalupe which is a popular pedestrian mall filled with cafes and nightclubs and bookstores.

I know a few more but that´s enough. I´m exhausted.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 21, 2009, 5:00 PM)

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

Apr 22, 2009, 6:06 AM

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I am sure you will find good meals in Oaxaca for about $3 usd (comida corrida about $50 pesos is probably expensive). And you will find things cheaper than Indiana. I speak as an ex-Hoosier who has been in Cancun for 22 years.

I would suggest you start a new post about the topic so we can get some good responses without dredging up an old post.

GringaGirl

Apr 22, 2009, 12:54 PM

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Obviously where to get a good cup of coffee is a universal topic... generating much discussion...and deservedly so! If only I can find coffee, a reasonably priced apartment, and some good Mexican food while I'm in Oaxaca and I'll be very happy!

Brigitte Ordoquy

Apr 23, 2009, 10:29 AM

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NinaNina wrote:

Hey, GringaGirl!

Imagine my surprise to see this thread revived. I thought it might be worth it to say that we've been living in Oaxaca City for nearly two years now, and we have loved the coffee. It has come a long way since the Nescafe days, though I've certainly been served Nescafe as well.

I live near the Reforma district, and there is an organic coffee spot up the block from me that roasts and grinds on-site. I've also tried Ron's recommendations at Pochote.

Your concerns about rent are valid, because there are many overpriced places marketed online. I think once you hit town you will be able to find a place much cheaper to rent than 1,000 per month! We paid less than that for a three bedroom house with a separate guest house.

Good luck.

I know I already responded to this post but upon re-reading it, I thought perhaps Serena could enlighten me on a couple of things since she has been living in Oaxaca City for a couple of years.

My post about the coffee in Oaxaca State is based on my experience during our first trip to that state perhaps five years ago when we were staying at a hotel near the Zocalo but attending festivities in nearby Teotitlan del Valle and we had to rise at about 6:00AM to drive from the city to Teotitlan for some church services connected to the event. I had gotten up early to look for some of the good coffee drinks available in the zocalo and everything was closed. Well, this was our first road trip from Lake Chapala to the Oaxaca/Chiapas/Yucatan area and I was still not familiar with the "Nescafe" phenomenon so I returned to the hotel and informed my wife that it was too early to get coffee downtown but we could pick up some on the drive to Teotitlan. That was the morning back then that I discovered that early morning coffee (in those days) or even mid-day coffee on the road in Southern Mexico was just about impossible to find with the exception of a jar of Nescafe so neglected that the instant coffee had solidified, some lukewarm and certainly suspect water on the store stove and that infamous and ubiquitous substitute dried cream product. On that commute to Teotitlan that morning we couldn´t even find that sorry substitute for coffee so I suffered through the church service and subsequent street parades and Plume Dance exhibitions feeling out of sorts until they served the first mezcal and room temperature beer of the day and then I was miraculously in a fine mood for the rest of the day.

I recognize that much has changed in many parts of Mexico since those days and the same is true in Jalisco and Chiapas where good coffee was an oddity back then and can be found in many urban areas with ease now - at least in central cities.

We have recently considered selling our Ajijic house and moving to to Oaxaca City while keeping our Chiapas home so we are full-time in Southern Mexico and Serena and others have given me pause to think about this proposed move. We think that the colonial center of Oaxaca City is stunningly beautiful but much of the rest of the city seems to be a bit noisy and rundown with somewhat anarchic traffic fueled by drivers trying to negotiate poorly designed streets and thoroughfares and we might enjoy living there part time while living in neighboring Chiapas the rest of the time but here is my question. Just where are the nice, leafy, quiet neighborhoods of Oaxaca City within walking distance of the zocalo or at the least within a relatively easy bus ride in a city where bus drivers are not only insane but extremely powerful? I have spent a bi of time looking for this seemingly imposible place but maybe some of you living there can enlighten me.

Now, the real reason for this post. Since I have disparaged Nescafe, I must tell you all that one of the best coffee drinks I have ever tasted was made with Nescafe and it was served in the dining room of an absolutely wonderful hacienda/hotel on the road from La Trinitaria to the Chinkultic ruins and the Lagunas de Montebello in Chiapas near the border with Guatemala. I believe the name of this fabulous and relatively inexpensive hotel is the Hacienda Santa Maria but don´t worry about that. This is a fairly deserted area and the road to the hacienda is to your right as you head for the lakes from La Trinitaria. A great place to stay surrounded by a coffee orchard, a musem of Spanish art and some expansive open fields with a fine open air restaurant and bar. I believe it is adjacent to the town of El Progreso which is an evangelical Christian town where local folks are quite frendly and will want to introduce you to their pastor but that is not to say they are pushy.

Anyway, this hacienda´s restaurant features a coffee drink which is absolutely delicious and made from Nescafe. They mix the Nescafe with a clotted cream and sugar and then float this concoction on top of a tall glass of steamed milk which the guest then blends with a spoon. Since they have a full bar , one can make this drink even better by adding some brandy or rum or whatever. The place serves three meals a day and the last time I was there about a year ago, the food was very good indeed.

(This post was edited by Brigitte Ordoquy on Apr 23, 2009, 10:48 AM)

NinaNina

Apr 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

Post #56 of 62 (3847 views)

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Re: [Brigitte Ordoquy] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Well, Brigitte, it sounds like you scored some gourmet Nescafe, though I'd venture to say that the experience could largely be attributed to the clotted cream and sugar.

Early morning coffee is, indeed, harder to find in Oaxaca. I believe my favorite cafe, Cafe Brujula, on Garcia Vigil a bit south of the Pochote market, opens at an early hour. And Nuevo Mundo, which Ron mentioned earlier, is open in the morning. To be sure, though, the coffee-drinking around here seems to happen more in the PM, especially at 10pm or midnight, which would create instant insomnia for me. Like Geri, I find the Cafe de la Pluma served at Pochote Market is excellent, and my guests always want to go back there for more. There's a new cafe on Pino Suarez, Cafe Medusa, that looks and smells promising, too.

And for GringaGirl--check Oaxaca Craigslist! Within the past few days, I've seen apartments for rent posted for $300-$500 per month, fully furnished, with one including the changing of linens.

--Serena
"Have You Seen the Dog Lately?" blog
http://haveyouseen.blogspot.com/

Hound Dog

Apr 23, 2009, 10:56 AM

Post #57 of 62 (3842 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Sory, NinaNina:

I inadvertently posted under my wife´s name. That was I posting and I edited my post after you read it asking for the names of some leafy, quiet neighborhoods within walking istance of the Zocalo. I got your recommendations but the "leafy,quiet" and "walking distance to the Zocalo" things are important to us. Maybe that´s not possible.

Thanks for your help.

Hound Dog (Bob)

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 23, 2009, 10:58 AM)

NinaNina

Apr 23, 2009, 11:52 AM

Post #58 of 62 (3833 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Oops, Hound Dog, I totally missed your request for leafy, quiet neighborhoods. Yup, that is hard to find in Centro proper, but I think it can be done...

I love Llano Park, of course, and that is abundantly leafy. I used to live by Conzatti Park, a gorgeous tree-lined square that you would never know is just a 5-minute walk to Santo Domingo. If you could find something there, it would be golden. I lived on Jacobo Dalevuelta, a street that stretched between Llano and and Conzatti. The advantages to this location are too numerous to go into, but here is a sampling:

You have a pleasant, relatively traffic-free walk downtown via the Alcala (though I prefer the busier but more cafe-populated street of Garcia Vigil).
You do not need a car.
You can hear calenda processionals as they approach the center and have time to get out and see them, but are far enough away from the action in case the party goes on all night.
Great food every direction you go.
You are a 10-minute walk to the Pochote organic market and free foreign film theater.
There is a kickass Friday tianguis in Llano for all your weekly shopping needs.
The English library is nearby if you miss or need English reading materials.
And, yes, you too can attend the yoga, meditation and sufi whirling at Casa de Angel yoga center!

I'm sure Geri would have much more to say on this topic because I believe she's near Llano.

Now, across Calzada de Republica, the neighborhood of Jalatlaco continues. This is an extremely quiet neighborhood, with artists' studios and a health food store along the cobblestone streets and I've seen places for rent and sale nearby. You've probably been in this area, all around the Casa Arnel property. Not so many trees, but the lack of traffic and nearby Llano Park makes for some fresher air.

My other dream neighborhood is Xochilmilco, but it's a bit uphill from the zocalo, so not quite as convenient. It goes by the gorgeous Biblioteca Infantil. It follows the extension of the aqueducts that you see at El Pochote. There are trees and lots of bugambilla and jacaranda, and a modest weekly market tucked in there.

Further north, on the other side of Ninos Heroes de Chapultepec, you have the Reforma district. I find Calle Jasmines very leafy and beautiful, as I do Calle Amapolis. They do experience their comida rush hour crunches, however, so maybe a side street or a privada would be mellower. Here, however, it would be a 35-minute walk to the zocalo.

A neighborhood I haven't explored thoroughly is the area around La Soledad. There are ample trees, but I think also ample church bells at all hours.

Come to think of it, I also saw a fairly unattractive but fabulously located house near the centro. It was above our budget, but it was this mellow little corner of town kind of hidden away. I don't think you'd like the house per se, but the location was kind of cool. I think it faced a small green space with some trees, but my memory fails me. It was located on the south side of Ninos Heroes de Chapultepec, right across from the parking lot of the Hotel Fortin Plaza. Let me know if you want more details on that one, and I'll try to dig up more information.

Hound Dog

Apr 23, 2009, 12:23 PM

Post #59 of 62 (3828 views)

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Re: [NinaNina] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Great ideas, NinaNina. I am sure others as well as we will benefit from this information. We are familiar with Conzatti Park and really like that area plus we will explore some of the other areas you mentioned when we return south. Living in both Oaxaca City and San Cristóbal de Las Casas is a dream of mine and narrows our focus to Oaxaca State, Chiapas and the Yucatan Peninsula with their countless attractions.

Thanks again.

Bob

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 23, 2009, 12:26 PM)

colibri1

Jul 30, 2009, 9:28 AM

Post #60 of 62 (3725 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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While I've always been glad to get a Mexican food fix in South Tucson, as opposed to in my town of Puerto Peñasco, Sonora.......TACO BELL???!!!????

bournemouth

Jul 30, 2009, 1:29 PM

Post #61 of 62 (3710 views)

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Re: [colibri1] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Colibri - you must be catching up on really old threads - you just replied to one started in 2007 - it seems a little, tiny bit pointless, no??

colibri1

Jul 31, 2009, 9:50 AM

Post #62 of 62 (3683 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Scoring good coffee in Oaxaca city

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Huh?!?.....all the posts on this page have 2009 dates on them.

Just checked the whole list...looks like someone else dredged it up and it's enjoying quite the second re-incarnation.
M

(This post was edited by colibri1 on Jul 31, 2009, 9:52 AM)