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db52

Mar 6, 2007, 4:02 AM

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H S B C

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I have taken the advice found here and opened an HSBC account. I got my ATM card in the mail the other day and in another ten days will be able to take it to Mexico and try it out! I'll let you folks know how it goes.

In Guadalajara last Thursday and Friday, by the way, the changemakers were giving five or six more pesos per hundred dollars than one of the banks I happened to notice (not sure which bank, but it was 10.99 versus 11.04 or 5). Is this the way things usually work? I had thought banks would be more generous....I felt like I was so smart because I had a bunch of hundreds in my pocket!



Septiembre


Mar 6, 2007, 5:47 AM

Post #2 of 100 (17637 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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By all means please report back on your experience with HSBC. We are planning to go that route as well so will be very interested in what you find.


db52

Mar 6, 2007, 7:41 AM

Post #3 of 100 (17611 views)

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Re: HSBC-Chase Manhatten interface

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Well, I got all the numbers set up on the computer and took my ATM card to my regular bank down on the corner here in Michigan, just to see if it worked. It did work, although it cost me $3.50 to confirm it because HSBC charges a buck and a half for using Chase Manhatten's machine and Chase charges two bucks for using HSBC's card.

The real test will come in a couple weeks when I use the card at HSBC in Tepic and then compare the outcome with the moneychangers on Av. Mexico.


bournemouth

Mar 6, 2007, 8:01 AM

Post #4 of 100 (17601 views)

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Re: [db52] HSBC-Chase Manhatten interface

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Don't forget to let them know you will be using it in Mexico or the bank may freeze it the first time you try.


Gringal

Mar 6, 2007, 10:18 AM

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Re: [bournemouth] HSBC-Chase Manhatten interface

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Good idea. We got in a mess over that.
This is true of all your credit cards, too. Be sure to let them know where you're going or they freeze them.


Waterlily

Mar 6, 2007, 2:28 PM

Post #6 of 100 (17535 views)

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Re: [Gringal] HSBC-Chase Manhatten interface

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I have to reconfirm my Citi card every 6 months or they don't work here in Mexico. My BOA doesn't seem to care where I am.


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Mar 6, 2007, 3:36 PM

Post #7 of 100 (17526 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Be sure & get those 100s broken down into smaller bills. A lot of places you may find yourselves in Mexico will not be able to give change for 100s. Some cannot give change for 20s.
Getting older and still not down here.


db52

Mar 6, 2007, 5:05 PM

Post #8 of 100 (17511 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] H S B C

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Well, there were casas de cambio in Guad that didn't want anything BUT 100's! I am not stupid enough to run out of money in some little town with only 500 people or to try and change a hundred dollar bill with a tamale vendor at six in the morning. I am going to call the HSBC folks before I leave and find out if I'll have to notify them every time or not. Chase wants me to call them each time and I think they even asked me "where in Mexico?" once. I know for sure they can change hundreds in Tepic.


db52

Mar 6, 2007, 5:08 PM

Post #9 of 100 (17506 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Also, I try to save up about at least fifty pesos in change every night because it seems like nobody's got change in the mornings!


Brian

Mar 6, 2007, 5:37 PM

Post #10 of 100 (17494 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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I am going to call the HSBC folks before I leave and find out if I'll have to notify them every time or not. Chase wants me to call them each time and I think they even asked me "where in Mexico?" once.


There is a difference between an HSBC ATM card and a Chase credit card. This has been my experience with each:

The HSBC ATM card was never questioned (much less confiscated) in SMA where I made regular withdrawals nor from ATM kiosks elsewhere in Mexico or the USA.

The Chase card was funny. I have had even small purchases declined both in Mexico and the USA. After a conversation with one of their fraud prevention folks, I learned that the system relies on a computer profile of customary purchases. After several consecutive months of purchases in Mexico, the first charge at WalMart or Golden Corral in McAllen would set off a red flag. Likewise, after a weeklong shopping binge in the US, my first charge back in SMA set it off again. I was advised to call Chase each time I intended to cross the border in either direction and tell them the expected duration. Even that did not guarantee against the embarassment and inconvenience at having purchases declined until a call to customer service could be made to clear it up.

Brian


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Mar 6, 2007, 5:58 PM

Post #11 of 100 (17487 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Well EXCUSE ME for trying to assist in some way. Not everyone is aware of this.
You can be sure it won't happen again.

Enjoy your trip
Getting older and still not down here.


db52

Mar 6, 2007, 6:50 PM

Post #12 of 100 (17469 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] H S B C

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I didn't mean anything except that I've never carried anything but hundreds and never had a problem yet--but, come to think of it, one guy last week took possession of a couple of yard-notes and mumbled something and booked off down the street. He'd been standing in front of the joint and not inside in the cage. First thought was that he was going to a different cambio place to change them, but then I looked at my wife and said "I'm not even sure that guy really works here! Maybe we'd better keep him in sight." It all worked out OK, though, but for a minute I thought I'd met a genuine 'city-slicker."


moonfam5

Mar 6, 2007, 8:34 PM

Post #13 of 100 (17448 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Remember, you can link your regular bank account to the HSBC online account and transfer funds anywhere in the world. I have transfered funds from Istambul, Turkey and from Cotija, Michoacan from B of A to HSBC and was able to withdrawl money within two days. Good luck!
WinkThe more I learn, I less I know.


Zorro13

Mar 7, 2007, 5:01 AM

Post #14 of 100 (17414 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Please, I'm a newbie. What the heck is HSBC? The use of acronyms is an American curse. It makes us feel like insiders. Maybe we need (or is there already a place) a list of acronyms somewhere on Mexico Connect.


Brian

Mar 7, 2007, 5:10 AM

Post #15 of 100 (17410 views)

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Re: [Zorro13] H S B C

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Please, I'm a newbie. What the heck is HSBC? The use of acronyms is an American curse. It makes us feel like insiders. Maybe we need (or is there already a place) a list of acronyms somewhere on Mexico Connect.


I don't think it's fair to blame America for this acronym. The letters stand for Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. It actually has a lot more branches in Mexico than it does in the US. Here is more if you are interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC

Brian


Zorro13

Mar 7, 2007, 5:14 AM

Post #16 of 100 (17407 views)

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Re: [Brian] H S B C

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Brian, thanks for the speedy and informative reply. This is an amazing website.


mparrino

Mar 7, 2007, 6:46 AM

Post #17 of 100 (17387 views)

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Re: [moonfam5] H S B C

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Can you be elaborate a bit? I went to two HSBC branch offices and they both told me that was only a service available to very large depositors.
Thanks.
Marcia


S & C

Mar 7, 2007, 5:48 PM

Post #18 of 100 (17321 views)

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Re: [Zorro13] H S B C

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HSBC is the 3rd largest banking corp in the world. They are headquartered in London and got into the US market around 10/15 years ago when they bought the Marine Midland banks in New york State. they have since expanded into different markets in the US but are not as concentrated anywhere in the US like they are in NY state.
I live on the Pa/NY border and have been using HSBC as my bank in the states mainly because a few years ago they also bought Serfin bank in Mexico and I think they are now the 4th or 5th largest bank in Mexico.
I have a beach house near Tulum, Q Roo. Tulum has 2 banks, Bancomer and HSBC.
I constantly use the ATM card for free at HSBC branches in Mexico or anywhere else in the world. When I used it at the Bancomer ATM in Tulum I have only been charged $1. Not sure why but that's it.

When I use a credit card in Mexico I get hit with a 3% currency conversion charge, (1% from Mastercard and 2% from the credit card bank) HOWEVER, when I use my HSBC Mastercard credit card for any purchases I only get charged the 1% from Mastercard. HSBC charges me nothing. (Not sure if that is the norm or if I've been lucky, but I like it.)

HSBC also has the online savings account that pays 5.05% interest and they pay 5.25% on CD's
I don't have a Mexican account yet because I haven't yet needed one. Currently their US operations don't have a connection to the mexican ops so I couldn't transfer money for free etc. IF I had $100,000 in accounts and/or brokerage with HSBC, I could qualify for a Premier level of service and then I could transfer etc for free between any of their branches in the world.
Stan


esperanza

Mar 7, 2007, 5:54 PM

Post #19 of 100 (17316 views)

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Re: [S & C] H S B C

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As far as I know, HSBC did not buy Serfin in Mexico. Serfin is presently Santander-Serfin.

HSBC bought out Bital and changed the Bital name to HSBC.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









song_of_joy

Mar 7, 2007, 7:36 PM

Post #20 of 100 (17298 views)

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Re: [esperanza] H S B C

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Bital was formerly known as Banco Internacional.


Bubba

Mar 7, 2007, 7:51 PM

Post #21 of 100 (17292 views)

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Re: [song_of_joy] H S B C

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Hoo Boy!

If any of you think the Mexican subsidiary of the London based HSBC is anything remotely akin to your HSBC branch in Chicago or Kuala Lumpur you are a complete fool. Climb back on the turnip truck and follow the yellow brick road to nadaland, basketball brain.


song_of_joy

Mar 7, 2007, 7:57 PM

Post #22 of 100 (17287 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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I'm not keen on them but it's relative, isn't it?

My son (majoring in business administration) recommends HSBC very highly for business accounts.


Bubba

Mar 7, 2007, 10:33 PM

Post #23 of 100 (17265 views)

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Re: [song_of_joy] H S B C

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HSBC is many things and in some jurisdictions it is, no doubt, business friendly but the huge international bank HSBC is what it is where it is and what it wants to be. I can tell you this. HSBC Mexico is in existence for the same reason that other such intrenational banks are in business with subsidiaries in Mexico. They bought the BITAL franchise for a song from fools selling franchises they misunderstood and underestimated. HSBC and BBVA and other international banking institutions came into Mexico and bought bags of undervalued stores of wealth from hillbillies and they have since taken the Mexican public to the cleaners. In this poor country they rip off their customers because their customers are not aware of what they should be getting for their pesos.

Am I the only person posting hereabouts who comprehends that Mexican banks are Mexican banks no matter what they are called or who owns them? Hello!


(This post was edited by tonyburton on Mar 8, 2007, 8:00 AM)


bournemouth

Mar 8, 2007, 6:13 AM

Post #24 of 100 (17237 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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No, Bubba, you are not but don't let it worry you.


S & C

Mar 8, 2007, 7:24 AM

Post #25 of 100 (17222 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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Bubba, I believe this thread started talking about using an HSBC ATM card.
I answered what I knew of how HSBC was. I was in error when I mentioned the wrong Mexican bank they purchased. I for on didn't tout the benefits or lack same by using the Mexican branches for anything other than ATM usage. As I said I use HSBC in the states and they are a very good bank for my purposes. They don't charge as much for using theior credit card or ATM card in Mexico. In those instances I thin they are very good.
I have yet to hear much of anything good about any Mexican bank and I think their banking rules pretty much suck.
However people do have to use Mexican banks. Rather than just trying to insult people for posting ideas maybe you coulf try being helpful and add some useful info about Mexican banks.
I for one would appreciate it. I've seen "Bubba' posts that really help and enjoy. On the other hand I see too many "Bubba" posts that are more hurtful than helpful.
What a shame to waste knowledge in such a way....
Stan


Bubba

Mar 8, 2007, 7:55 AM

Post #26 of 100 (4720 views)

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Re: [S & C] H S B C

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Stan:

Perhaps you have a good point. Unfortunately, I was a banker for about 35 years so sometimes I become a bit churlish when discussing banks because I know the games they play. I was simply trying to warn people that huge multinational banks such as London based HSBC and my own bank, the Spanish based BBVA, which owns Bancomer, should not to be considered in the context of what they are globally but what they are in the political jurisdiction in which one does business.

I read so much misinformation on these forums that I become irritated at times.

There are no good Mexican banks. Period. There will be no good Mexican banks until this oligarchical political entity frees itself from its corrupt exclusionary rules and regulations. The same was true in the United States until the 1960s so this is no holier-than-thou pronouncement by some snotty American. I just hate to see people choose banks by presuming those bank´s Mexican franchises are what they have come to enjoy in their native lands.

HSBC is a fine consumer bank and, if I were living in the U.S. I might very well open an account there.

Here is how you make your decision as to where to bank in Mexico. I bank at BBVA Bancomer in Ajijic because they are the only bank in this town. Had I the decision to make over again, I would choose Banamex because I like the fact that you choose a number when you enter their branches, have a seat and wait for your number to be called. Bancomer tries hard to please but, God, are they inept.

Actually, most of our money is either in a U.S. investment house or Activiner/Lloyd investment house which is big in Jalisco. We earn a decent rate of return there while our Bancomer savings account is a joke and returns us nothing.

Bubba´s Rule #1:

Keep only that amount of money in Mexico whether in banks or investments you can afford to lose completely and totally without remorse.

Idiot friends of mine brag about their success in the Mexican stock market about which they know nothing. They remind me of high tech investor friends of mine who laughed at my conservative investments in 2000. They are still working and Bubba hasn´t worked since 2001.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 8, 2007, 7:57 AM)


db52

Mar 8, 2007, 9:45 AM

Post #27 of 100 (4694 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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I started the thread because, two or three weeks ago I'd asked for advice about how to avoid getting ripped off by Chase Manhattan (and my arch-enemy David Rockefeller) when visiting Mexico and using my ATM card.

I don't know where all the stuff about "credit cards" started. I have never used a credit card of any sort in Mexico and do not plan to do so. I'm also not real clear on who is supposed to be the "basketball brain" or what that is all about!

Anyway, I've got my brand-new ATM card from my brand-new "HSBCdirect.com Online Savings" account and it worked fine at my local bank. I just got off the phone with them and it turns out that they do indeed want me to notify them whenever I travel, just the same as the despicable minions of Rockefeller.

I am going to try it out in Tepic in about ten days and write down how many pesos I get in a little notebook. Also will not the rate offered by the casa de cambio on the same date. Then, when I check my account on-line, I will know whether it is better to take cash or to take my ATM card on the next trip.

And before you jump all over me, Bubba, for visiting Tepic, let me just say that I happen to LIKE Tepic and, additionally, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you! Nyahh, nyahh, nyahh!


Gringal

Mar 8, 2007, 11:18 AM

Post #28 of 100 (4670 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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On this forum, Rolly is the benevolent giver of information, but you, Bubba are like that nun who hits your fingers with a ruler util you "get it," Bless you for your ruler-wielding.

A Mexican bank is a Mexican bank is just the truth. No insurance. Lots of other issues.

I do business with Banamex for the line ticket. I like the fact I could "link" my account with their US affiliate, keep my money in the US insured account and get it to my miniscule Banamex account on a same-day basis. I like the Banamex Mastercard that works without a hitch and which I can pay online, out of the U.S. account. Other than all that, I know that my personal relationship with ALL banks is similar to that of the drill and the wall.


thriftqueen

Mar 8, 2007, 7:37 PM

Post #29 of 100 (4623 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Also will not the rate offered by the casa de cambio on the same date.

Simpler yet, just check the online exchange rate posted on Mexconnect, found under the news heading on the main page.


db52

Mar 9, 2007, 2:56 AM

Post #30 of 100 (4597 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] H S B C

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Well, I can do that of course, or look at the chart on Yahoo to find the official range for the day, but what I am primarily interested in finding out is who is going to put more pesos in my pocket in the next five minutes. So what it boils down to is the bank teller versus the ATM machine versus the 'street.'

Thanks to all for comments and suggestions.


Teo

Mar 10, 2007, 6:49 AM

Post #31 of 100 (4556 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Hello db52,
I find myself on a similar path as you. After more than 30 years of banking with its predecessors in Arizona, I have grown tired of the machinations of Chase Bank.

Today I became the proud owner of a new HSBC checking account - no small feat with the hurdles imposed by the Patriot Act - just so I could withdraw my money in Mexico without paying an arm and a leg for it.

A question I have for you though: You mention using the HSBC ATM card when making withdrawals. When I applied for my account online, I was prompted to choose between an ATM card and a Debit Card (perhaps because I have a checking account?). Although the HSBC customer service staff are courteous and helpful, they could not explain whether there was a difference in the ATM withdrawal charges using one card versus the other. Do you know? If I use a Debit Card to withdraw pesos, will I incur the despicable Exchange Rate Adjustment fee that Chase charges?

At any rate, it has been a pleasure doing business with HSBC so far and would recommend it to anyone looking to link a US-based account to a "Mexican" bank. I will have the opportunity to use my HSBC card in Puerto Vallarta at the end of April for peso withdrawal. Hope it works!

Teo


sfmacaws


Mar 10, 2007, 7:22 AM

Post #32 of 100 (4549 views)

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Re: [Teo] H S B C

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Here's what I found out at my credit union. I switched my ATM/Mastercard to a pure Debit card in hopes of avoiding the new charge (or newly reported on my statement charge) of some percentage of what I withdraw. Unfortunately for that part of it, I still get charged a percentage although I think it is lower. My credit union doesn't charge me anything else and no bank I've used in Mexico has charged me so.. when I called they said that all currency transactions are charged this fee by the company they use to do them. Something like that.

However, there is a side bonus. If the pure Debit card is stolen or lost it can't be used without the PIN. An ATM card can be used as a credit card and if stolen, it will be. Recently a machine ate mine and I could wait out getting it back because I hadn't used the PIN yet and knew it couldn't be used.

So, a Debit may be cheaper and it is definitely more secure, as long as you diligently protect your PIN.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




esperanza

Mar 10, 2007, 7:38 AM

Post #33 of 100 (4541 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] H S B C

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However, there is a side bonus. If the pure Debit card is stolen or lost it can't be used without the PIN. An ATM card can be used as a credit card and if stolen, it will be. Recently a machine ate mine and I could wait out getting it back because I hadn't used the PIN yet and knew it couldn't be used.

Several years ago my debit card was stolen. The thieves, without benefit of my PIN, used it to steal more than $7,000 USD from my checking account even though they had no direct access to my funds. They used the debit card at retail stores by forging my signature, purchasing easily resold high-end electronics. No PIN is necessary when a debit card is used to make a purchase. Of course as instructed I had signed the card on the back and my signature was right there to be copied.

The bank replaced the funds, but the process involved in rectifying the problems caused by the theft took more than nine months.

Even the pure debit card is not as secure as we would like to believe.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









sfmacaws


Mar 10, 2007, 8:30 AM

Post #34 of 100 (4531 views)

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Re: [esperanza] H S B C

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mmmmm, I may have the terminology wrong then. This new one I have has no MasterCard or Visa logo and doesn't work as a credit card with a signature. It only works in machines that ask for a PIN. In fact, it doesn't work in some stores in the US that process their bills through a credit card center. Pretty much the only place it does work is in an ATM machine. You can't use it buy anything online or over the phone either.

Some of that I was told, I haven't tried to use it as anything but a cash card. It did not register on several machines that were part of a store in the US, when I asked the store said they processed all charges through Visa or MasterCard. The larger stores, WalMart, Von's, and the like it does work. It didn't work in at least 2 cash machines here in Mexico, one of them ate it but gave me the nifty message first that the card could not be read.

It may be that they could use it anyway, but you would certainly have a better case for a refund since it is not supposed to be accepted like that.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




esperanza

Mar 10, 2007, 8:46 AM

Post #35 of 100 (4526 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] H S B C

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That card did not work as a credit card with a signature. It worked as a DEBIT card with a signature--as soon as a purchase was made and signed for, the amount was debited to my checking account. That's how debit cards work, if I understand the process correctly.

If you are buying something over the phone or online, you must have a card associated with a credit card logo even if you are using that card as a debit card. As you said, some stores in the US that process their bills through a credit card center and require credit card information even though the card is being used as a debit card.

Of course, you can also use them in ATMs, where you do need the PIN.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









db52

Mar 10, 2007, 8:54 AM

Post #36 of 100 (4524 views)

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Re: [Teo] H S B C

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My card appears to be purely an ATM card. It says "ATM Card" up at the top right-hand corner on its face. On the back are two of the little symbols with interlocking circle-things that look like the MasterCard logo. One says 'cirrus' and the other says 'maestro.' ('Maestro'=Master? Hmmmm)

Of course my account is a savings account and not a checking account. My advice to Teo is to use the Chase card to withdraw 1000 pesos and then stay right at the same machine and use the HSBC card to withdraw another 1000 pesos. And if it were me, I would write down in a little notebook the rate you would get by handing money to the teller. Then he (and I) will know which card to take next time and which to leave at home. Or maybe leave them both at home and just take regular cash money. (This all applies to vacationers, I guess, not folks who live in Mexico.)


bournemouth

Mar 10, 2007, 8:56 AM

Post #37 of 100 (4519 views)

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Re: [Teo] H S B C

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Don't forget to tell HSBC you will be using the card in Mexico or it may be frozen on you.


sfmacaws


Mar 10, 2007, 8:57 AM

Post #38 of 100 (4518 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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That's what I meant by having the terminology wrong, perhaps mine is a pure ATM and I thought it was a pure Debit. I have no idea of the true meaning of those words.

Where is Banker Bob when you need him? Oh, he's over in the Southern forum talking about beaches again.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




db52

Mar 10, 2007, 8:58 AM

Post #39 of 100 (4517 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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For best results (I forgot to say) I would make sure to use an HSBC bank for this little experiment. And if I saw a better rate at a different bank (or on the street), I would note that, too, but just if it were at a very close point in time. Because they might change once or more during the course of the day.


thriftqueen

Mar 10, 2007, 9:25 AM

Post #40 of 100 (4506 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] H S B C

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Your thoughts are fairly correct however you just reversed the way a card may be used.

The ATM card is to be used only in an ATM machine, which as we know requires a PIN #

The debit card may be used at any merchant who accepts credit cards or debit cards. They all carry either Mastercard or Visa logo. If one is using that card in Mx they will be charged the international fee as that is the Visa perk for handling that transaction. If that card is stolen the thief simply uses it as a credit card, he doesn't need the PIN. If they tried to use it as a debit card then they would need the PIN. That is one reason not to write that pesky little number down somewhere in your wallet. My credit union charges us .75 for usage at a non member ATM. The banks in Mexico show on the ATM screen that you will be charged .75 and ask if you wish to continue the transaction. You will not see that Mx charge broken out on your CU statement where you will see any US CU charges broken out on the statement.

Esperanza, what happened to you is fairly typical of a stolen debit card. The thief will immediately use it all over town possibly before the owner discovers it missing and reports it. The signature on the back doesn't alter any facts as rarely does the cashier look at those signatures and the processing center sure doesn't. I like it when I use mine and the cashier asks for ID as that helps stop some fraud. All the fraud simply gets passed on to you know who.


Papirex


Mar 10, 2007, 10:36 AM

Post #41 of 100 (4490 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] H S B C

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ThriftQueen, Most Mexican banks charge $7 Pesos for using their ATMs. That is the charge you are asked if you want to approve before you use the machine. Not all banks here charge that fee though.

Two days ago, I took my ladies out for a simple dinner at a Sanborns on the Internacional Dia de Mujeres. I got some money at an Inbursa Banks ATM there. I was surprised to be asked if I wanted to approve a charge of only $3 Pesos to use the machine. I withdrew $2000 Pesos and surprisingly received two receipts from the ATM.

The first receipt listed: cantidad - $2,000.00, then: comision - $ 3.00, then: total - $2.003.00

The second receipt had this message on it: Inbursa Y ¡No te cobramos comision!

I guess we just haven’t used an Inbursa ATM in a couple of years, since the Mexican banks have been required to reveal any charge for using their ATMs. We do avoid using any ATM that takes your card inside it, maybe that is why we haven’t used an Inbursa ATM lately.

If Inbursa isn’t charging a commission, that leads me to believe that Sanborns is the one charging the 3 pesos. That is understandable, Carlos has only jumped from 4th to the 3rd richest man in the world in the last year at a worth of just $49 billion Dollars. The poor guy probably really needs our 3 Pesos.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


esperanza

Mar 10, 2007, 10:37 AM

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The point I was trying to make when I said that my signature was on the back of the debit card is that the thief had the signature available to copy when making his/her purchases. In theory the signature confirms that you are indeed you; in practice it confirms that anyone signing your name could be pretending to be you.

In fact, it was the discrepancies in the signature as signed by the thief that proved to the debit card company that I was not the one who made the purchases. The forgery was close, but not close enough--especially on the last purchase, where the thief spelled my name wrong in the signature.

The $7,000 USD was stripped from my account in a period of less than two hours.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









doogie

Mar 10, 2007, 10:47 AM

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Re: [RexC] H S B C

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I believe Carlos Slim owns both, Sanborns and Inbursa Bank. So he'll get ya either way, and probably both ways.
Doogie,
Tapatío de corazón


moonfam5

Mar 10, 2007, 12:13 PM

Post #44 of 100 (4469 views)

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Re: [mparrino] H S B C

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easy, open an online savings account with HSBC with maybe 500.00USD. once your account is established, you can transfer funds online between your bank and HSBC (the HSBC account is a US account) then request an ATM card from HSBC. You can then access money from anywhere in the world.
WinkThe more I learn, I less I know.


sfmacaws


Mar 10, 2007, 12:23 PM

Post #45 of 100 (4464 views)

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Re: [esperanza] H S B C

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Esperanza, I used to write "check ID for signature" in the signature spot on my credit cards for just that reason. It makes no sense to me either to give them a sample to copy. A couple years ago I started getting hassled that I had to have a signature on the card to use it. So, now mine says 'check ID' but I also sign it. Clearly they rarely read what they pretend to look at as only about a quarter of the time, in the US, am I asked for ID. I always thank them when they do ask. I've been asked for ID most of the time I've used a credit card here in Mexico but I don't know if that is just policy or they read the back, which is in english.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




Marlene


Mar 10, 2007, 1:16 PM

Post #46 of 100 (4452 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] H S B C

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Jonna, that's a great idea. I have been leaving the signature portion on the back of my credit card blank which may not be the best because the thief could write his own version of my signature in there and go on a quite a shopping spree before I would get around to noticing. But I felt leaving it blank was better than allowing them to try to copy my signature. When the cashiers here in Mexico notice it's blank, they don't always ask (which is scary). If asked, I show other ID with my picture and signature to match the credit card slip. "Check ID" is a great alternative.


thriftqueen

Mar 10, 2007, 1:52 PM

Post #47 of 100 (4446 views)

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Re: [esperanza] H S B C

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In fact, it was the discrepancies in the signature as signed by the thief that proved to the debit card company that I was not the one who made the purchases.


Believe me when I say the thief isn't interested in forging your signature, their interest lies in hitting the stores with that card before you report it stolen or missing to the card company. Oh, the miracle of online computers, the time frame is short that they can use that card for purchases if the owner is aware and immediately reports it stolen.

In my past life, LOL I worked for Mastercard and that was an education to the ingenuity of the crooks. Then in later years I worked for a police department in what they called the telephone report unit. There were 15 of us on a shift and all we did was take calls where the city/and PD deemed their officer's time could be better spent on other calls.
On night I had a woman call in to report say her purse had been grabbed from a shopping cart. I asked if she had credit cards and if so had she reported the cards stolen. She had not reported them stolen. I refused to take her report until she called the card companies. She was irate at me. As the rotating call system picked up her call back to us, I happened to get it. She was singing a different tune. A couple of teenagers had hit an athletic store in the mall and charged over $500.00 worth of shoes, etc. She said the store told the card company they had asked whose card it was and the kids said it belonged to the parent. Needless to say the merchant is so hungry to make that sale until they ignored that red flag.

My daughter and I have a joint account that my husband does not sign on. She was issued a debit card with her married name on it. Her Dad carries this card and uses it occasionally. He says he has never been asked why it is obviously a female name and the last name being different than his.


Papirex


Mar 10, 2007, 2:10 PM

Post #48 of 100 (4444 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] H S B C

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Jonna, I think it is probably the policy of any reputable business here to ask for additional ID when a person uses a credit card for any large purchase. We never use our credit cards for small purchases, dinner, etc. here. When we first moved to Cuernavaca, we did use them for large purchases of furniture, appliances, etc. here and in México City. That was easier then going to an ATM for several days to get enough cash.

They always asked me to show them a visa, or my passport, and they always asked Doris to show her voter’s card. I think that thieves using a stolen card to rack up large purchases in just a few hours must always have confederates working in the stores where the stolen cards are used. They wouldn’t care if the thief put a paw print on the purchase slip instead of a forged signature.

At the Sears store here it is a little different. It is very time consuming to use a Sears card here in Cuernavaca. They only have one telephone in the entire store that is capable of making international calls. We bought dining room furniture, and later, a small freezer, and a portable dishwasher there on three separate occasions.

Sears in México is a separate business from Sears in The United States where our cards were issued. It required a phone call to The US to get credit approval for those purchases. I took about an hour and a half to two hours each time.

Later, my wife was in Sears here and wanted to buy some small thing for $200 or $300 Pesos in the house ware department. She was short of cash, so she just flipped out her Sears card. She was then informed that Sears would not approve use of a Sears credit card for purchases of less then $350 to $450 Pesos. We don’t know if that is their policy in the entire republic, or just here in Cuernavaca.

We each carry only one of our credit cards with us now, in case of an emergency. We carry different cards in case one of them is lost or stolen. I keep the rest of our cards hidden in my secret hidey-hole at home, along with my passport, Doris’ Green card, etc.

I believe that with the dysfunctional police and court systems in México, credit card theft is probably one of the most risk-free crimes that even semi-organized criminals can commit here.

We do have one MasterCard, and one of our Visa cards that have our individual photos on them. That should help, but there was a post on these forums a few years ago by a woman that had her credit card with her photo on it stolen in Ajjijic. The thief had pasted her own photo on top of the true holder of the cards photos and used it. The card with the other person’s photo on it was recovered by the police and eventually returned to the owner.

The owner of the stolen card posted a picture of it here on Mexconnect; it showed the thief’s photo on it. Nothing else was recovered, just the card. Tell me that the thief didn’t have help using the card.

Rex




"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


sfmacaws


Mar 10, 2007, 2:31 PM

Post #49 of 100 (4429 views)

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Re: [RexC] H S B C

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I think that is it. I've only used it for large purchases and since the last one was a TV at CostCo and they stole the card number and tried to buy stuff online, I'm probably not going to use it much in the future either. Although, it can be difficult to accumulate enough cash for large items. I'm working on collecting up enough for my big dentist bill now and it has occurred to me to ask if he takes credit cards.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




thriftqueen

Mar 10, 2007, 5:03 PM

Post #50 of 100 (4399 views)

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Re: [RexC] H S B C

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Sears in México is a separate business from Sears in The United States where our cards were issued.

As a matter of fact in one of today's articles regarding the billionaires list. The article listed all of Slim's holdings and it said he owned all the Sears stores here in Mexico. Best I remember it was 50 odd stores.




Papirex


Mar 10, 2007, 5:50 PM

Post #51 of 100 (7413 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] H S B C

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Yes, he bought all the Sears stores in Mexico as well as all the JC Penney stores here several years ago.

He did change the names on the JC Penney stores a while back though. That bothered my wife. Before we moved back here permanently, she used to like to shop at The JC Penney stores in México City using her US JC Penney credit card, before there were any ATM machines anywhere in Mexico in the 1980s.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


hkiersey


Mar 12, 2007, 2:35 PM

Post #52 of 100 (7365 views)

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Sears Credit Card usage or Home Depot?

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Hi:

I've been reading the forum's since August 06. Very Helpful. I see the information about Sears Credit Cards being very dificult to use at Sears in Mexico. I was wondering if anyone knew if it is possible to use the Home Depot Credit Card at the Mexico Home Depots?
"You are where you should be, doing what you should be doing, otherwise you'd be somewhere else, doing something else."


Gringal

Mar 12, 2007, 2:44 PM

Post #53 of 100 (7361 views)

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Re: [hkiersey] Sears Credit Card usage or Home Depot?

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Home Depot credit cards are heavily advertised in the Home Depot stores in Mexico. Don't know if you could use your NOB card, though.


jwp_007

Mar 12, 2007, 4:04 PM

Post #54 of 100 (7340 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Sears Credit Card usage or Home Depot?

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I checked my HSBC accounts for some ATM withdrawals in Jalisco in Feb and March of this year. I checked the exchange rate for the withdrawal dates on XE.com against my HSBC statement; all the transactions were for 3000 pesos. The HSBC statements do not show the exchange rate so I did the math to extract the rate.

Feb. 20 – XE.com - .091121 - HSBC .09121
March 2 XE.com - .08945 - HSBC .08965

I do not know if there are better or worse rates for other ATM cards, or if XE.com is the gold standard of currency rates – but that is what I received from HSBC with no additional fees.


db52

Mar 12, 2007, 5:37 PM

Post #55 of 100 (7319 views)

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XE.com

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Well, that is interesting. I never heard of XE.com before, but it appears to be quoting rates that big-time currency traders would rely on--not just "dumb sucker tourists" like me. And if I have done my math correctly, HSBC appears to have been only 27 cents more expensive than XE in the first instance and 60 cents in the second transaction. I can live with that!


Papirex


Mar 12, 2007, 6:04 PM

Post #56 of 100 (7313 views)

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Re: [jwp_007] Sears Credit Card usage or Home Depot?

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The published exchange rate each day is yesterday’s rate at the close of the business day. The exchange rate published on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, or the day after any holiday is the rate at the close of business on Friday or the last business day before the holiday. It is not fixed by law. Banks, etc. are perfectly free to give you a lower exchange rate; they will not be breaking any law. That is how the cambios make their money; they are private businesses, not a government service.

An example of how the exchange rate fluctuates is that last week we withdrew $5,500 Pesos on two successive days. On March 1st our credit union account was debited U.S.$491.44 plus the 1% exchange fee levied by Visa of U.S.$4.91. On March 2nd the account was debited U.S.$492.55 Plus the 1% exchange fee of U.S.$ 4.93. That was a total difference of U.S.$ 1.13 to withdraw the same amount of money in just 2 days. We weren’t cheated out of a Buck; the difference just reflected the normal daily exchange rate fluctuation.

Many people often try to compare the exchange rate they receive at an ATM to the published exchange rate for the day before, and then complain when they don’t match. They never will. The Mexcan Peso is a floating currency, that is, the value of it changes thoughout the day depending on many things, including how much people and institutions are willing to pay for them. The exchange rate posted at many banks is not the exchange rate that their ATMs are using at any hour.

I use the Oanda FX converter on my computer to double check exchange rates sometimes. http://www.oanda.com/...=us&exch=MXP_USD I have customized it to show only U.S. Dollars and Mexican Pesos, but you can check most of the currencies in the world using it. The Oanda converter will list three prices for the peso, the ask, bid, and sell price. The final sell price is the one published at the close of business every day.

It is the best converter I have found; it reflects the hourly changes in the exchange rate. You may enter an amount in the morning, and the same amount in the afternoon, and get 2 different results, reflecting the change in the exchange rate during the day. You can also check the rate for past dates. I always set the exchange rate used for the bank rate plus 1% so it includes the 1% exchange rate fee charged by Visa.

If you dig around a bit, there is a lot of information on the Oanda site regarding international monetary exchange rates.

You will drive yourself nuts if you are constantly trying to find a bank or an ATM that will give you exactly the exchange rate published that day. It isn’t ever going to happen. If it comes within a few Cents, that’s as good as it gets. Sometimes when I do double check the amount I have received from an ATM, there will be a difference of a Dollar or two. It is usually in my favor.

I quit worrying about getting the exact exchange rate a long time ago. It’s better for my brain.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Mar 12, 2007, 6:31 PM)


Goody2shs

Mar 12, 2007, 9:33 PM

Post #57 of 100 (7281 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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Sounds like you accidentally put vinegar into your margarita instead of tequila.


Tab


Mar 13, 2007, 11:54 PM

Post #58 of 100 (7223 views)

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Re: [db52] H S B C

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Does anyone have an HSBC account in Mexico? I have one down there and just had to order their new High Security OTP (hopefully high-security). I can't seem to find out if it will work from Canada or not (as this is where I am currently living full-time). I am hopeful, seeing as it must work off a satelite - but I haven't had that confirmed from HSBC. Are the other Mexican banks using this new device as well? By the way - does anyone else question why the Mexican banks have such high fraud? Any chance it comes from the "inside" and no amount of high-security device will stop them????? Thanks.

LOVE THE FORUM!


hkiersey


Mar 20, 2007, 11:20 AM

Post #59 of 100 (7157 views)

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Re: [moonfam5] H S B C

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Hi, You don't know me but I've been reading the forums for awhile. Am finally moving to Mexico in 2 weeks. I've opened an HSBCdirect online savings account and for some reason I was thinking the best way to access large sums of money in Mexico would be to open an HSBC Mexico account and not keep my money in it, but when I need a large sum I would do an account transfer from the US HSBC to the Mexico HSBC account and then withdrawl.

Do you or anyone know if this is a good idea?
"You are where you should be, doing what you should be doing, otherwise you'd be somewhere else, doing something else."


Ed and Fran

Mar 20, 2007, 12:16 PM

Post #60 of 100 (7146 views)

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Re: [hkiersey] H S B C

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I was thinking the best way to access large sums of money in Mexico would be to open an HSBC Mexico account and not keep my money in it, but when I need a large sum I would do an account transfer from the US HSBC to the Mexico HSBC account and then withdrawl.


That's pretty much what we do (although we don't transfer from an HSBC in the US) and we suspect that there are a large number of expats living in Mexico who do something similar. Usually about once a month (sometimes more, sometimes less) we make a transfer from our US account to our local HSBC, and then draw down on that for our normal expenses.

Regards

Ed & Fran


hkiersey


Mar 20, 2007, 12:30 PM

Post #61 of 100 (7142 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] H S B C

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On the Forums I've read about a lot of Fraud in all the Mexican Banks. Have you personally experienced any fraud.

Also we are going to be living part time by Morelia, Michoacan and then part time somewhere else which we haven't decided yet... Maybe Puerto Vallarta.. not really sure.

Where do you live? And do you think that there are lots of HSBC Banks all over..?

Thanks for the reply.
Heather
"You are where you should be, doing what you should be doing, otherwise you'd be somewhere else, doing something else."


Ed and Fran

Mar 20, 2007, 12:45 PM

Post #62 of 100 (7130 views)

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Re: [hkiersey] H S B C

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Have you personally experienced any fraud.

Us? No.


Where do you live? And do you think that there are lots of HSBC Banks all over..?

We live on the gulf Coast in Tuxpan, Veracruz. Yup, HSBC has branches everywhere. I don't have stats on who has the most branches, but HSBC has to be up there near the top.


Regards

Ed & Fran


bournemouth

Mar 20, 2007, 12:51 PM

Post #63 of 100 (7124 views)

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Re: [hkiersey] H S B C

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Apparently there are 1400 branches of HSBC in Mexico but I was unable to come up with a map of the locations.


hkiersey


Mar 20, 2007, 12:57 PM

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Re: [bournemouth] H S B C

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Well, I'm very excited to hear that. It's hard to make decisions for our future without being there. But....thanks to this forum I've been able to weigh out the options and I think I've made a good choice.

Thanks for the info

Heather
"You are where you should be, doing what you should be doing, otherwise you'd be somewhere else, doing something else."


Goody2shs

Mar 20, 2007, 11:05 PM

Post #65 of 100 (7060 views)

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Re: [hkiersey] H S B C

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I have also opened an online HSBC savings account for that same purpose. It works great for transfer to and from any bank account we have and besides they pay a hefty interest on your savings. Right now if you put new money into your account, they offer 6%, which is fantastic by U.S. standards.


jerezano

Mar 21, 2007, 8:28 AM

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Re: [Goody2shs] H S B C

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Hello,

Fraud in the Mexican banks. The banking industry is now pretty well guarded against fraud. In the past no. And the subsidiary banking industry, the so-called credit unions, union cooperatives, corner empresarios who guard your money and pay sky-high interest are all without watchdogs. Fraud there, yes.

What you will find with Mexican banks is price-gouging on what we think of as standard services. Lack of such services. An attitude that your money is really theirs and that they are doing you a favor to allow you to deposit money in their institution, and no insurance on your deposits. For example Bancomer 3 years back was charging a monthly fee for a severely restricted on-line banking use. Can you imagine? I dropped it so I don't know about now.

Before the days of computing, for example, if you banked at XXX bank in Guadalajara on yyy street and tried to cash a check at another branch of the same bank on zzz street, you were out of luck. No dice. If the staff were really cooperative, they would make a phone call to your branch, if the phone worked, and ask, and then MAYBE cash your check. The same with deposits. Those days are now gone forever with the arrival of the foreign banks, but the attitudes remain.

And the question remains for those who really got hurt when López Portillo converted all the banks to paraestatales: Was it fraud to impound all the dollar accounts and convert them to nearly worthless pesos? It would be by USA standards.

Adiós. jerezano


Bubba

Mar 21, 2007, 11:56 AM

Post #67 of 100 (7001 views)

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Re: [jerezano] H S B C

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Good post, Jerezano but guarding against sophisticated fraud is not so simple and here is what one must always keep in mind. Your average Mexican bank ain´t your average U.S. bank and there is no insurance. If you are defrauded, do not anticipate the smiling instant refund of your lost funds. It will be your problem, not theirs. You will have been found guilty of having been stupid and, therefore, unworthy of recompense without a fight you will pursue without local stature. This is hugely important for you to understand.

We have been keeping large average balances in a Mexican bank because of our home construction project in Chiapas and, thus, have been designated "preferred" customer status with all that status infers. We still make no money on our savings account as we are service charged to death. And, I promise you, if we are defrauded whether internally or externally, we will never see that money again. Never leave more money than you can afford to lose in a Mexican bank or investment house. Any bank. Any investment house.

About four years ago, my main banker at a huge investment house in the U.S. warned me to take my money out of a Mexican investment house because the firm was undercapitalized and known to shift risk about to benefit its wealthy cients to the detriment of its ordinary clients and, in the event of a financial crisis leading to liquidation, would take care of its powerful friends at the expense of everyone else who would be left penniless. Does this surprise you? Think about it. In the U.S. with all its regulations and so called rule of law, who gets screwed? Imagine your situation in a country where there is no "transparency" and normally no punishment for the manipulator or swindler.

Did you know that one highly touted multinational bank has frozen the assets in litigation of one of its clients in Latin America because that client criticicized its service publicly on the internet? His assets could be frozen for years beyond his lifetime. I have no idea who is right or wrong in that controversy but I tell you - keep the bulk of your money in the U.S. and keep it insured by the Federal government. To do otherwise is the height of recklessness.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 21, 2007, 12:07 PM)


ken and judith


Mar 21, 2007, 7:06 PM

Post #68 of 100 (6949 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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Getting back to HSBC for a moment - can anyone confirm for me what the withdrawal fees are for taking money out of an HSBC account from another country (Canada or US) from an HSBC ATM in Mexico. Do you get hit with 2 ATM fees or does HSBC charge you only once.

Thanks


moonfam5

Mar 22, 2007, 6:53 AM

Post #69 of 100 (6908 views)

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Re: [ken and judith] H S B C

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Everywhere that I have used my HSBC ATM card, I have only been charged the withdrawal fee from the account once. Of course the question is why am I being charged at all since HSBC is supposedly a world wide bank. Come to think of it, I have never withdrawn monies from a HSBC branch in the States. I wonder if there is no charge for that service? B of A doesn't charge for withdrawing your own money from your own account in their domestic branches, but I have been hit twice for using my B of A card in Mexico, once from the ATM where I withdrawl, and another from B of A for the privilege thereof.
WinkThe more I learn, I less I know.


Rolly


Mar 22, 2007, 7:42 AM

Post #70 of 100 (6899 views)

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Re: [moonfam5] H S B C

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You can use your BofA ATM card at Serfin bank with no charges. I do it all the time.

Rolly Pirate


windknot

Mar 24, 2007, 11:28 AM

Post #71 of 100 (6830 views)

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Re: [S & C] H S B C

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For those that don't already know, it is Bank of America that owns/or has an affiliation with Santander Serfin in Mexico. I have never had a problem with the Santander ATM's and my BoA checkcard. I also find the exchange rate to be much more favorable than if I had walked into the same bank with USD's and exchanged them for pesos. Once when the rate was 10.85, I did the math and had received 11.02 from the ATM. This includes any fees, of which I think there are none.


Oscar2

Mar 24, 2007, 12:50 PM

Post #72 of 100 (6815 views)

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Re: [Goody2shs] H S B C

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Quote
I have also opened an online HSBC savings account for that same purpose. It works great for transfer to and from any bank account we have and besides they pay a hefty interest on your savings. Right now if you put new money into your account, they offer 6%, which is fantastic by U.S. standards.



You mentioned having opened an on-line account with HSBC. Is this an on-line account with a HSBC in Mexico that you now have control over NoB? If so, did you get your Clave while in the states or did you initially establish this internet link while in Mexico. I’m having difficulties in this area.


Bubba

Mar 24, 2007, 2:02 PM

Post #73 of 100 (6808 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] H S B C

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You mentioned having opened an on-line account with HSBC. Is this an on-line account with a HSBC in Mexico that you now have control over NoB?

Oscar.

I am not the poster but I can tell you the HSBC "sweep" account that pays the temporary 6.0% is a U.S. only account covered by FDIC insurance. If you reside in Mexico you cannot open one. It is illegal for you to do so. You must open an account at HSBC Mexico which is not the same bank as HSBC´s U.S. subsidiary. I doubt a savings account in HSBC´s Mexican subsidiary bank will pay you in excess of 1.0% although you can open investment accounts with them that will pay more. No money you have in the Mexican bank is covered by deposit insurance so your deposits at any bank in Mexico are substantially more risky than your U.S. deposits.

If you still live in the U.S. or can seem to live in the U.S. by lying on the application, you can open the HSBC on-line sweep account there and can enjoy the benefits of that account at HSBC´s ATMs in Mexico. The PIN you choose, whether at HSBC´s Mexican or American subsidiaries is good at ATMs all over the world.

We bankers love to give teaser rates to both depositors and borrowers. It is our way of tricking you in the door. We know that, by offering 6.0% on "new" money for a couple of months , we can bring in new depositors and then we try to sell them on services that keep them there. Bankers know that depositors are loathe to change banks, especially if they have automatic services such as electronic deposit services at that particular bank. After April, in the case of the HSBC promotion, one´s return on the account drops to that similar to other e-bank rates which will still be higher than your average "brick & mortar" bank so it´s a good deal.

I recommend the HSBC USA product if you can open one. I would open one myself if legally allowed to do so. However, when HSBC USA tells you it is paying six times (or whatever) the average bank savings account rate, they are playing games with you. Their rates are probably comparable to thea rates of most e-banks so don´t get too excited.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 24, 2007, 2:08 PM)


Oscar2

Mar 24, 2007, 3:18 PM

Post #74 of 100 (6790 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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Here’s a scenario that will make my dubious question perhaps a bit clearer. Let’s assume you open an HSBC account while in Mexico but aren’t there long enough or forgot to use the pin/clave issued during the time allotted while in Mexico to open up this internet banking account.

While NoB, you decide its time to establish connection with this Mexican account via the internet. Has anyone on this forum done so while in the states and if the answer is yes, did HSBC issue you another clave/pin by phone, mail or otherwise while NoB in order to establish a link?

Incidentally Bubba and Jerezano, I thoroughly chime in with your experiences about Mexican bank services presented to one as privileges rather than the expected, no matter how much dinero invested in their institution. Try getting a safe deposit box or other simple peripheral services and rates go up exponentially. I mean in some cases to the point of lunacy. $500,000.00 pesos plus maintenance fees was the highest price quoted for a safe deposit box.. Go figure.

The odd man out sort of thing about this situation is that they look at you as if you should already know this without question. The problem here is your fresh from exposure to incredibly lesser rates offered NoB when sizable deposits grant you seemingly a card blanch by comparison. In other words the larger your bank holding, the bank definitely benefits from these holding in their increased accrued interest and/or monies used for other investments which feeds their bottom line.

In some Mexican banks, this same scenario would do no more than grant a smile while you’re smarting and being ushered out the door with minimal services and/or hefty service charges should you require more. I’d love to say the opposite and would do so game-fully but sorry pal, it’s not going to happen, not just yet. But sometimes you do what you have to do….


Goody2shs

Mar 24, 2007, 7:07 PM

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Hi Oscar2, to answer your question: Funny, would you believe, I don't actually know where my HSBC bank is located as I opened the account strictly as an online banking account. It is supposed to work anywhere in the world. But we still live in the U.S. and I switch funds from this account to two of my other checking accounts from time to time. You can add as many accounts as you like on your profile with the online bank so that you can transfer your money from anywhere to anywhere from your computer. I funded my HSBC account with a transfer from my checking account, so never sent anything to them in the mail either. I had read in the local newspaper business section about this some time back that several socalled "online" banks now allow you to open savings accounts with pretty high interest earnings as they supposedly don't have the high overhead costs of normal brick and mortar banks. And honestly speaking, knowing that HSBC actually has quite a number of brick and mortar building banks all over, I don't understand the concept. All I know is, it works. Hope I answered your question?


Georgia


Mar 25, 2007, 12:01 PM

Post #76 of 100 (7893 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] H S B C

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Are you guys talking about 100 dollars or 100 pesos?????????????????


S & C

Mar 25, 2007, 1:31 PM

Post #77 of 100 (7877 views)

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Re: [ken and judith] H S B C

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If you use an HSBC Debit Mastercard, which I believe is their normal card, at ANY HSBC ATM machine in the world, there is no charge, period!

I have used it extensively in the US, England, Australia and Mexico and have never been charged for the service.
If you use the HSBC card and somone else's ATM machine you will be charged by the owner of that machine.
(I have used my HSBC card at Bancomer ATM's and have only been charged like $1 US from Bancomer and nothing from HSBC, but i can't swear that this is the norm since I don't go off HSBC often).
Stan


Bubba

Mar 25, 2007, 1:50 PM

Post #78 of 100 (7872 views)

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I had read in the local newspaper business section about this some time back that several socalled "online" banks now allow you to open savings accounts with pretty high interest earnings as they supposedly don't have the high overhead costs of normal brick and mortar banks. And honestly speaking, knowing that HSBC actually has quite a number of brick and mortar building banks all over, I don't understand the concept. All I know is, it works.

Goody:

I am not in the states and am not privy to the HSBC U.S. subsidiary´s organizational structure but the e-bank is certainly a separate function, perhaps even a separate subsidiary from the brick and morter bank although the two entities compliment each other. I´m sure that the physical HSBC branches offering checking and savings accounts are not paying anything like the return you can get on the e-bank. Since no e-bank will open my account as I am not a U.S. resident, I don´t know this for sure but I´ll bet you can only open these internet accounts on line.

My apologies to Oscar for misreading his post. I guess I was aiming my comments at those who may confuse Global HSBC with its various subsidiaries throughout the world.


Ron Pickering W3FJW


Mar 25, 2007, 4:53 PM

Post #79 of 100 (7851 views)

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You're right on Bubba. The online service with HSBC is strictly online. Although I suppose one could go into a B&M bank & use the card to get cash. One cannot use a bank to deposit money into their accounts as all debits/credits have to be done online.. They might all be connected as far as ownership, but in business they are completely separate.
Getting older and still not down here.


Goody2shs

Mar 25, 2007, 9:42 PM

Post #80 of 100 (7824 views)

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Re: [Bubba] H S B C

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Thanks for your interest in this Bubba. I will do a little more research on this subject and let you know. Have to really study their website, which is large. Will report back when I know more about it.
Gudrun


mazgordon


Mar 25, 2007, 11:02 PM

Post #81 of 100 (7818 views)

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Re: [Goody2shs] H S B C

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Hey Folks,

We had $378,000 US Dollars stolen from our account with the Private Banking Division of Bank One of Chicago in 2003. No accounting was ever made for the loss. In fact they sued me to approve the accounting, requiring me to appear against their heavy weight lawyers when they'd left us indigent. My wife of 25 years passed away due to the stress.

I've never lost a peso in the Mexican banks...

Thankfully I've recovered and have a fine new life.

¡Echar todo la carne al asador!


drfugawe


Mar 26, 2007, 7:32 AM

Post #82 of 100 (7795 views)

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It was our experience with a Chase credit card that it doesn't matter if you call ahead of your trip to put them on notice of your travel intentions - they will just go ahead and freeze your card anyway. My call to Chase prior to our trip immediately turned from my intended purpose into a sales opportunity for the eager Chase rep - and since his comand of English was about as good as my comand of his mother Indian tongue, I'm not sure he ever knew why I was calling anyway!

Lots of luck
john
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###



Goody2shs

Mar 26, 2007, 9:09 AM

Post #83 of 100 (7779 views)

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Re: [mazgordon] H S B C

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WOW, extremely sorry to hear of your misfortune there. Unthinkable!!! Did someone steal your identity or something like that? Or was it a computer/clerk error? Strange, my husband also said, whenever a bank makes an error, it usually is in THEIR favor. So I suppose we're the lame ducks out there, just have to pray things go right. One hears stories good and bad for either side, so what are you to believe? I really don't know.


drfugawe


Mar 26, 2007, 11:10 AM

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As stated inumerable times here previously, whenever you use a Visa/MC branded debit card in a Mex ATM, you will pay a 1% foreign exchange fee. This is an absolute, and you will never see an evidence of it, since the fee is deducted as an adjustment to the exchange rate.
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###



Bubba

Mar 26, 2007, 11:45 AM

Post #85 of 100 (7762 views)

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As stated inumerable times here previously, whenever you use a Visa/MC branded debit card in a Mex ATM, you will pay a 1% foreign exchange fee. This is an absolute, and you will never see an evidence of it, since the fee is deducted as an adjustment to the exchange rate.

And that is an infinitesimal cost for the service provided by the service provider as anyone remembering the actual and psychic costs of the old pre-ATM days in Mexico will attest. Remember when one had to go to a bank with one´s traveller´s checks to exchange those checks for pesos in what was a costly and arduous process with attendant costs associated with this manual procedure? It is a tribute to the system that the huge international service providers can provide us access to our money almost anywhere in the world in seconds, charge us only 1.0% and still make a juicy profit which is the only rationale for providing the service in the first place.

I still remember walking into a bank, standing in a huge line where someone eventually authorized my traveller´s checks (or turned me down for some arbitrary reason) , stamped a few documents after carefully inspecting my passport and sent me to another long line where a second person actually gave me my money. It was a dreadful, time-consuming and unfriendly process that, all-in-all cost a hell of a lot more than 1.0%.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 26, 2007, 11:47 AM)


S & C

Mar 26, 2007, 1:18 PM

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Bubba, you are right in that the on line accounts of HSBC are a seperate entity, however, if you happen to have an account with them in the US you can do on line banking, transfers, bill paying etc, all from the same web site and you can see all og your accounts with HSBC on one page. (I.E. checking, savings, laons, credit cards, on line savings as weel as brokerage.
The B& M savings rates are typical, like .5%and the checking accounts may have fees unless you arrange things so you bypass them, like balance minimums or total accounts with them that total more than $15,000.
The on line stuff began only after ING became so successful at it and then many others joined the fray. I'll take 5.05% anytime, especially when it is so easy to move money from account to account on line.
HSBC is just like all the other big boys with stuff the offer. They just happen to be the most convenient for me because of their proximity to where I live both here and in the states. BoA or Wells Fargo may be better for someone from the US West Coast.
Stan


Bubba

Mar 26, 2007, 2:05 PM

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Right on Stan. If I were not precluded by the Patriot Act from opening an on-line account at HSBC or ING, I´d do so tomorrow. My response to the earlier poster was meant to explain how banks do this sort of thing. I am very much aware of the ease with which one may avail themselves of inter-subsidiary services services offered by the same bank holding company.

What HSBC and these other global banks do is become involved in various business practices, some far more risky than others, to profit from enveavors they would never risk within the same entity as, for instance, the standard banking entity. For instance, HSBC has a mortgage lending arm in the U.S. that specializes in sub-prime real estate lending but because of huge inherent risks attendant to that activity, they set up a separate subsidiary for that type of business and rake in huge profits until they get into trouble. Then, only the subsidiary is in trouble (up to a point). They have just had their wrists slapped by the U.S. regulators for this activity and have promised to back off. Their Mexican subsidiary, which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with their U.S. entity except common ownership, is planning to move heavily into high risk consumer lending in Mexico which is pretty hairy stuff.

The fact that a bank headquartered anywhere that has subsidiaries in the U.S. and Mexico allows inter-subsidiary activity among clients is a marketing decision not a legal right of the client. It´s great for the consumer though. 5.0% savings yield, FDIC insurance and certain free services such as ATM withdrawals in Mexico. You can´t beat that.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 26, 2007, 2:07 PM)


drfugawe


Mar 27, 2007, 7:41 AM

Post #88 of 100 (7686 views)

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In all of this discussion of $ transfers, ATMs, and banking affiliations, I'm still apparently missing something. Why are there banks aggressively and successfully marketing $ transfer services to expat Mexicans in the US (HSBC and Bancomer among others)at very high fees, when it is apparently possible to transfer $ via an ATM transfer at much lower cost?

I just recently saw an online article about HSBC opening a new SoCal branch for the express purpose of handling cash transfers back into Mexico. What am I missing about this process?
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###



jerezano

Mar 27, 2007, 8:01 AM

Post #89 of 100 (7679 views)

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Re: [drfugawe] H S B C

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Hello drfugawe,

You asked about bank transfer of remisas from Mexican expats in the USA back to their relatives in Mexico: >>What am I missing about this process?<<

What you are missing in this process is that most Mexican expats living and working in the USA cannot open a bank account. To remit money to mexico they need to use Western Union, or one of the many money transfer companies, or give it to a trusted friend to carry back, or some other method. All of which in the past charged obscene fees. Sometimes as much as a third of the intended remittance. Small remittances of $100 or less were practically gobbled up just by the transfer fees. That trusted friend sometimes gobbled up all the remittance. And some Mexican expats I know of send as little as US$50 a month or perhaps two or three times a year.

Now, the relatives in Mexico can open a bank account down here and the Mexican expat can make a deposit to that account in a USA bank, then call that deposit number and the amount by telephone down to the relatives in Mexico. The relaltive wanders down to the bank, shows the code number and makes a withdrawal. With some banks they don't even need to open an account.

Whether the banks charge for this I don't know. But knowing banks I'm sure they do. But even so the fees, compared to the past, are much, much lower. Too, the convenience is worth the cost in most cases.

Adiós. jerezano.


Oscar2

Mar 27, 2007, 8:47 AM

Post #90 of 100 (7666 views)

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Re: [S & C] H S B C

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Quote
Bubba, you are right in that the on line accounts of HSBC are a seperate entity, however, if you happen to have an account with them in the US you can do on line banking, transfers, bill paying etc, all from the same web site and you can see all og your accounts with HSBC on one page. (I.E. checking, savings, laons, credit cards, on line savings as weel as brokerage.



Based on your post above, were these internet Mexican and US interchange accounts initially all opened in the US? If not, did you pre-open your Mexican account while in Mexico proper and then linked them together or do you have to log on separately to each account?

Reason being is that I’ve taken the liberty of calling and anyone in the US can call HSBC international banking at: 888-662-4722 and ask to be transferred to international Mexican internet banking proper.

Within Mexico City: 5721 3390
Outside of Mexico City toll free: 01 800 715 35 41 option 4




In the US I came away with a mish mash of uncertain scenarios pertaining to HSBC internet banking in Mexico and trying to link it with the US. I was told that at this time the labyrinth of policies and procedures are still under construction and seemingly won’t be completed until sometime in September of this year.


US based City Bank and Mexico based Banamex already are good to go on both fronts but one “must” open their bank account in Mexico and have a Mexican residents utility bill in order to establish a link.


Speaking to someone on establishing an international Mexico specific internet account by phone exposes you to opinions, policies and procedure specific to Mexico which varies and not always the same pending who you talk too each time you call. Yes, it can get a bit dicey and unpredictable.

Perhaps someone with greater understanding can seep into this quandary and sort out specifics about internet banking which will clearly shed some specifics on the differences of opening an internet account from a US point of origin verses opening a HSBC point of origin Mexican internet account and their different privileges and/or limitations. Clarity will muster up a heap of gratitude.

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Mar 27, 2007, 11:08 AM)


S & C

Mar 27, 2007, 10:01 AM

Post #91 of 100 (7650 views)

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I'm sorry if I misled anyone but I do not have a Mexican HSBC acount. I mentioned in a previous post on HSBC that he US segment does not interface with the Mexican segment at this time. I hope they do get together later this year.
Everything I do with HSBC has been done in the states and I only use their ATM's in Mexico for getting my money. On numerous times I have taken $3000P twice in a row w/o a problem and since that has been all I need for "living" money, I can do that as often as I wish.

I haven't yet needed to transfer large amounts to Mexico but may in the future.

HSBC has what they call a "Premier" level of service. It costs $50/month or is free if you have $100,000 in US funds in their US bank, (the totals of savings, checking, CD's, Money market, IRA's or brokerage funds). You then get a "relationship" person to deal with 24/7 and you get special rates on loans, credit cards, cd's, safe deposit boxes etc, PLUS you can transfer large amounts to yourself from country to country for no cost. (Since "retired" people should be somewhat conservative with their investments, and HSBC is paying 5.25% for cd's, this service may be worth looking into).
Stan


Bubba

Mar 27, 2007, 10:58 AM

Post #92 of 100 (7641 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] H S B C

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Oscar:

There is no such animal as a Mexican internet bank that is even remotely akin to the U.S. internet bank we are discussing. The e-bank accounts are a U.S. hybrid product and you are confusing the notion of internet banking with the notion of an internet or e-bank.

You can open an account at HSBC Mexico and access and perform certain functions at that bank on the internet. That does not make it an internet or e e-bank.

You can open an account at HSBC in the U.S. and perform certain functions at that bank over the internet.That does not make it an internet or e-bank.

You can open an account at HSBC Online e-bank in the U.S. and deposit and withdraw money there on-line but that bank has no physical presence outside of cyber space.

The reason no one can give you a straight answer is that nobody has an answer.

I´m bowing out of this one.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 27, 2007, 11:00 AM)


Oscar2

Mar 28, 2007, 12:28 AM

Post #93 of 100 (7598 views)

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Quote
The reason no one can give you a straight answer is that nobody has an answer.



Based on what has transpired to date, thus far I think the calls you’ve made are on the money, no pun intended. As far as bowing out, this too is understood and I’d probably follow suit but there’s something on the back burner still cooking which hopefully by the end of the week, will bring about favorable results ……….

If so, I’ll keep you posted and if it turns out even close to the current US internet connection with Lloyds of Mexico, I’d be happy to at least electronically view, at will, holding from other Mexican banks from the comfort of my home, as opposed to enduring a shroud of doubt.


Confusion is not alien to me, as it probably isn’t with others but its folks here on this forum and those such as yourself, who persevere and sometimes bring to the fore very useful and “sometimes” accurate information that makes this forum an excellent resource and more.


With a little luck it may still happen and if it does, it will be good news for all interested.

Hasta Luego


drfugawe


Mar 28, 2007, 7:13 AM

Post #94 of 100 (7584 views)

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jerezano wrote: "What you are missing in this process is that most Mexican expats living and working in the USA cannot open a bank account."

Of course! Please excuse me for not recognizing this earlier - and thank you for your good explanation.
john
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###



Bubba

Mar 28, 2007, 9:27 AM

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Re: [Oscar2] H S B C

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If so, I’ll keep you posted and if it turns out even close to the current US internet connection with Lloyds of Mexico, I’d be happy to at least electronically view, at will, holding from other Mexican banks from the comfort of my home, as opposed to enduring a shroud of doubt.

Oscar:

I know I said I was going to bow out but I felt you might benefit from hearing of my experience with banking over the internet (as opposed to internet banking) in Mexico.

We Have accounts with our brokerage house´s captive bank in the U.S. and Lloyd-Activiner investment house in Ajijic. We also have a savings account at Bancomer in Ajijic. We bank on line at both the U.S. bank and Lloyd with splendid results. There are certain activities we can perform at the U.S. bank and Lloyd over the internet such as making investments or inter-account transfers but that´s about it. We can check our balances and invesment mix every day or every hour if we wish at no charge.

Now, to Bancomer. We spent a lot of time there trying to get on line access to our savings account there so we could check our balances from time to time. It used to be simple to do that there but they have recently made it more complicated - probably to improve security so that´s OK except they make it a bit tiresome with their bureacracy. That´s beside the point. The question is, does one really want internet access to one´s Mexican bank account.

Even though we are designated by Bancomer as "preferred" customers, we have decided against internet banking there or taking their credit card offer. Here is why:

Every time we bank on line, that is, pull up our account balances on the computer, they charge us $35 Pesos plus the attendant IVA. They even charged us $35 Pesos plus IVA when they went on line on our behalf to create the on-line account. We can go in the bank and get our balances or get our balances at any Bancomer ATM for free but if we access our account on line it is $35 Pesos plus the IVA every time. Well, I´m no cheapskate but give me a break. I´m doing them a favor banking on line. I should be charging them $35 Pesos plus IVA.

I do not trust Mexican banks. Not just Bancomer but any Mexican bank. I´ve had quite a bit of money in Bancomer lately because of our home remodel in remote Chiapas where there is no Lloyd-Activiner but that´s the only reason. Not only do they manage to more than service charge away any interest I earn on my savings account but I suspect that any problems that may arise from any credit card they issue me or any on-line banking access they give me will be my fault.

Not speaking of Bancomer now but any Mexican bank including HSBC and Banamex and Banorte and you name it. If you have their credit card or on-line access with them you have just significantly increased your chances of falling victim to either internal or external fraud. This ain´t the United States and your bank down here is not likely to welcome you with warm greetings and open arms when you walk in there and tell them you just had $100,000 Pesos disappear from your account through some mysterious event you fail to comprehend.

Mexico is the land of the implied but never directly spoken:

"Well, this is not my fault and not my problem. What proof have you got anyway? Just what careless and stupid thing did you do to allow yourself to be so vulnerable that you allowed someone to steal your money or, for that matter, how do we know that you are not trying to rip us off . We are a major international bank headquarterd in (London, Bilbao, New York) and just who are you anyway and I´m going to have to call Mexico City and tell them about this problem and I hate to call them because they are national headquarters and think I am just some rube out in the provinces and this is going to hurt our office at annual review time and, oh, God! these expat clients are a pain in the ass and.... Well, we´ll look into it when we can get around to it although this may take some time as we have other priorities. Are you sure you didn´t withdraw this money and just forget about it, old codger?"

All of the above paragraph is summed up as follows when addressing you to your face:

"We´ll look into it ,sir."

You might want to re-think this whole thing.

Lloyd-Actinver, on the other hand, is used to dealing with us foreigners and I have always been treated well and with responsiveness when I experienced problems there. That´s why the bulk of my money committed to Mexico is there.

My Spanish teacher once told me that there was no useful verb "to bank" in the Mexican´s lexicon. Ordinary Mexicans don´t "bank". They are "banked" as a courtesy of the bank but only if remaining properly deferential and respectful. When she found out I call my Mexican branch manager by his first name she was flabbergasted. I told her that I not only called him by his first name but he called me by my first name and always gave me great service when he saw me. However, that does not change the fact that in Mexico in general, the prevailing notion in banking is obvious when things go badly:

" The customer is always wrong."


(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 28, 2007, 9:33 AM)


Oscar2

Mar 29, 2007, 12:39 AM

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Well said. Although your characterizing customer interaction may sound a bit gruff, when alls said, your take rails on the scathing effect one’s left with when such a lost seems hopeless. Violated and some, at best.

To the degree depicted, knock on wood, luckily, I haven’t been in the cross hairs of the bank…….yet. However, the overall sense of wanting for better is also understandable.

On another front, I had one of the more pleasant types of conversations with a Mexico City Senior Executive from the HSBC Premier program, who incidentally spoke with the authority and kind of pointed, crystal clarity shored up by one of those English accents that flags the utmost in attention.

He was a good Joe with good intentions. But after receiving your post, filled with paranoia and as much as I tried to contain myself and demeanor, an abundance of questions gagged so rapidly that this poor, well intended English fellow had to beg off to collect himself and fetch a journal to prepare for the onslaught ….:-)

When done, with his Englishness and gentlemanly fashion he bid adieu, promising to take no less than a month to answer all my questions…(just kidding) but yes, he immediately confirmed our conversation with a post and hopefully tomorrow clarity will rise with the sun...

Hasta

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Mar 29, 2007, 12:49 AM)


drfugawe


Mar 30, 2007, 10:20 AM

Post #97 of 100 (7464 views)

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Bubba,
And if your past messages to us are prelude to your future messages, it won't be too long before you're back here telling us how Lloyd-Actinver has ripped you off. It is a Mexican banking institution, is it not?
jm
_________________________

"Self-respect: the secure feeling
that no one, as yet, is suspicious."
H.L. Mencken
____________###



Bubba

Mar 30, 2007, 2:40 PM

Post #98 of 100 (7437 views)

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jm:

I have been with Lloyd for six years and cannot speak highly enough of them. They have offered me less than optimal currency exchange rates in the past but I wouldn´t call it a rip off. They offered the rate they offered and I accepted their offer at first. I later found I could get a better exchange rate than Lloyd offers because I piggyback my currency exchanges on Schwab´s currency exchanges which gives me their clout to some extent. I have that option because I am a client of Schwab. If one doesn´t have that option then exchanging through one´s U.S. investment house or bank or Lloyd or some other Mexican financial intermediary is one´s choice.

It is a Mexican banking institution, is it not?

No, Activiner-Lloyd is not a Mexican banking institution, it is an investment house. Its service is far superior to that one will receive in a Mexican bank generally speaking unless one is filthy rich. Not only that, I achieve an excellent rate of return on my investment mix at Activiner-Lloyd so I recommend them highly insofar as investing those funds one has committed to investment in Mexico. I repeat past caveats. Only invest money anywhere in Mexico you can afford to lose. Period.




(This post was edited by Bubba on Mar 30, 2007, 2:42 PM)


Papirex


Mar 31, 2007, 11:07 PM

Post #99 of 100 (7389 views)

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Drfug, You might want to check this website, in English or Spanish: http://www.lloyd.com.mx/ I thought everybody here knew that Lloyds is not a bank. If you haven't moved to Mexico yet, that would probably explain why you mistook it for a bank.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Apr 1, 2007, 12:03 AM)


Bubba

Apr 1, 2007, 5:40 AM

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My apologies. I misspelled the name of the newly merged entity Actinver-Lloyd, Fondos de Inversion.
 
 
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