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deGimp

Dec 19, 2006, 10:19 PM

Post #1 of 28 (2697 views)

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NAFTA Super Highway

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I'm posting this without comment in hopes that anyone not aware of the NAFTA Super Highway will find it of interest. It will have profound influence on US/Mexican relations:

http://www.infowars.com/...dmin_secret_plan.htm

Cross posting is encouraged.
I reject your reality and insert my own!

(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 20, 2006, 5:54 AM)

sparks

Dec 20, 2006, 3:53 AM

Post #2 of 28 (2682 views)

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Re: [deGimp] NAFTA Super Highway

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They don't mention Manzanillo in the article but it's on the map. The agreement was that Mexico build hyways to accommodate these trucks but along the hyway 54 route they seem to be happy with trains. I was thinking it would be great if they finally improved 54 (which is falling apart) but can you imagine following a line of trucks up out of Colima or even up in the flats. They must be using trains from Lazaro Cardanas but I haven't been around that area enough to know. Manzanillo wants to double the capacity of their port

Here's a clickable link
http://www.infowars.com/...dmin_secret_plan.htm

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Bloviator

Dec 20, 2006, 5:24 AM

Post #3 of 28 (2674 views)

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Re: [sparks] NAFTA Super Highway

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I was fascinated, surprised and very happy to drive from Lakeside to Manzanillo - the West Coast's leading port (or so I'm told) and find almost no truck traffic. Parts would be nasty if lots of trucks would use it.

There is talk of turning Lazaro Cardenas into a major port for the midwest, to supplement (supplant??) Long Beach, which is a true nightmare for trucks. Evidently it is 800 miles shorter from LC to Houston than it is from LB to Houston. Then obviously shorter to the whole lower midwest and southeast.

The problem is mountains all the way through Mexico - and the new road only in the dream stage. Once one crosses the mountains in eastern CA it is a long straight flat road until the gentle crossing over the southern (almost invisible) Rockys. Then a straight down hill pull to Houston from LB.

Of course labor costs and delays due to overcrowding in the port are much less at Lazaro Cardenas - at least the labor costs, I'm not sure about the quality of port services and facilities.

sparks

Dec 20, 2006, 8:42 AM

Post #4 of 28 (2639 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] NAFTA Super Highway

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Manzanillo got it's major boost from the California dock strikes 6-8-10 years ago and has been on a roll since

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Anonimo

Dec 20, 2006, 10:16 AM

Post #5 of 28 (2620 views)

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Re: [deGimp] NAFTA Super Highway

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Thre goes our neighborhood!

Saludos,
Anonimo

RickS

Dec 20, 2006, 11:24 AM

Post #6 of 28 (2593 views)

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Re: [deGimp] NAFTA Super Highway

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I WILL comment, without new words, on this plan....

+ Quietly the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide (10-lane limited-access road-five lanes in each direction-plus passenger and freight rail lines running alongside pipelines laid for oil and natural gas), through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

+ NAFTA Super Highway planning has been going on without any new congressional legislation directly authorizing the construction of the planned international corridor through the center of the country

+ various U.S. government agencies, dozens of state agencies, and scores of private NGOs (non-governmental organizations) have been working behind the scenes to create the NAFTA Super Highway, despite the lack of comment on the plan by President Bush

+ the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process; the Mexican trucks will cross border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system.

+ The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3 million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City

+ The first Trans-Texas Corridor segment of the NAFTA Super Highway is ready to begin construction next Spring; the billions involved will be provided by a foreign company, Cintra Concessions de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A. of Spain. As a consequence, the TTC will be privately operated, leased to the Cintra consortium to be operated as a toll-road

donemry

Dec 20, 2006, 11:44 AM

Post #7 of 28 (2588 views)

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Re: [RickS] NAFTA Super Highway

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I would think any cursory review of the web site posting this info might lead one to many other questions, particularly as to veracity.

rainer

Dec 20, 2006, 7:08 PM

Post #8 of 28 (2522 views)

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Re: [donemry] NAFTA Super Highway

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No kidding
Smile

pana

Dec 20, 2006, 7:42 PM

Post #9 of 28 (2509 views)

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Re: [rainer] NAFTA Super Highway

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Anyone who is older than 35 years old will probably not see this highway completed in his or her lifetime. I have suffered through the building of I 35 for the last 45 years, so I'm not losing any sleep over this. I've already learned how to avoid this corridor......back roads here I come.

Pana

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Dec 20, 2006, 8:56 PM

Post #10 of 28 (2485 views)

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Re: [pana] NAFTA Super Highway

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"NAFTA Superhighway" - As of late, there has been much media attention given to the "new, proposed NAFTA Superhighway". NASCO and the cities, counties, states and provinces along our existing Interstate Highways 35/29/94 (the NASCO Corridor) have been referring to I-35 as the 'NAFTA Superhighway' for many years, as I-35 already carries a substantial amount of international trade with Mexico, the United States and Canada. There are no plans to build a new NAFTA Superhighway - it exists today as I-35.

http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/about/about.htm
Getting older and still not down here.

Bloviator

Dec 21, 2006, 6:07 AM

Post #11 of 28 (2456 views)

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Re: [donemry] NAFTA Super Highway

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It's fascinating how one report can rouse hope or fear depending on ones perspective and depending on the goals of those proposing a project being reported.

If the information in the report is accurate (despite any slanting and its obvious sensational nature), it is possible that such a "super hiway" can be a real boon to Mexico and the US. It may also be a really horrible drain on the economy of the US. Only time will tell.

As one poster mentioned, only those 35 or younger are likely to see any such corridor completed. George Bush is not Dwight Eisenhower, who completed most of the interstate complex in his eight years in office. Pres. Bush, may get the road from the Baghdad airport to Baghdad secured in his eight years.

carlw

Dec 21, 2006, 7:01 AM

Post #12 of 28 (2445 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] NAFTA Super Highway

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The Nafta Super Highway is a project that is in fact, already underway. It is being strongly pushed by re-elected Texas governor Perry and the report by RickS is accurate. THere has been considerable discussion and debate in Texas, where about 1/3 of the corridor would be constructed, hearings have been and continue to be held, and work is progressing on a final routing map through the North Texas area. There is much contrioversy and a lot of opposition, particularly from large landowners in the southern part of Texas who fear this corridor will cut their properties into inaccessible parts. While the corridor would follow the general route of I-35, it is a totally different thing altogether. Major support is coming from the bsuinesses that would benefit from this kind of improved transportation route and they are determined that nothing stand in its way. The eminent domain controversy has also become much involved, as well as those on both sides of the immigration debate.

RickS

Dec 21, 2006, 3:23 PM

Post #13 of 28 (2371 views)

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Re: [carlw] NAFTA Super Highway

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As usual with things like this, there are competing and conflicting stories about this 'project'. This happens when the likes of us (knowledgeable experts on all subjects) pontificate (with a small 'p'). Carlw's comments are my understanding of the project; Ron's website seems to be authentic and is in direct conflict with Carlw's 'facts'.

I think I will just sit back and wait until Mr. Bush decides to tell us what the real story be! I'm sure it's forthcoming, it's just that he has bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Rolly

Dec 21, 2006, 3:48 PM

Post #14 of 28 (2360 views)

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Re: [RickS] NAFTA Super Highway

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Here is the most recent newspaper story from the Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/...pl/side/4060720.html

The Dallas Morning News carried the same story
http://www.dallasnews.com/...orridor.1dada69.html

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 21, 2006, 3:49 PM)

Bloviator

Dec 22, 2006, 5:00 AM

Post #15 of 28 (2307 views)

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Re: [Rolly] NAFTA Super Highway

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The issue seems to have really hurt Gov Perry's election campaign. I believe he won in a walk.

wendy devlin

Dec 22, 2006, 6:49 AM

Post #16 of 28 (2284 views)

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Re: [dlyman6500] NAFTA Super Highway

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Tid-bits of information...are they revelant to this topic...suppose time will tell. The super highway will need a lot more trucks. Freightliner already has a plant operating in Mexico.

http://www.trucknews.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=63641&issue=12202006&btac=no

Freightliner is building a new production plant in Saltillo, Mexico where it will build up to 30,000 Freightliner and Sterling trucks each year...

"This new facility underscores our confidence in the NAFTA truck market, and our bullish mid-term outlook for industry recovery post-2007," said Freightliner LLC president and CEO, Chris Patterson.

Georgia

Dec 22, 2006, 7:25 AM

Post #17 of 28 (2273 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] NAFTA Super Highway

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There are a number of issues to be resolved regarding Mexico and trucking. As you may know, Mexican trucks are not permitted north of about a 20 mile commercial/shipping strip at our southern border. The problem: publicly is the safety of Mexican trucks. That is not the real problem. The underlying difficulty is Mexico's integration into IFTA: The International Fuel Tax Agreement. Most states in Canada and the US charge highway use tax and petroleum tax. The petroleum tax is problematic because there are high tax states and low tax states. Truckers used to fill up in low tax states to avoid higher fuel tax. No more. Now there are offsets based on the number of miles traveled in each state. Thus the criminal penalties associated with truckers' logs. Mexican officials have met with IFTA representatives at conferences, but there is no mechanism in place for Mexico to participate in this program as a consequence of this country's haphazard tax collection history. If Mexico can not join IFTA, Mexican trucks will never pass into the US or Canada and vice versa.

The Multi-Modal system being installed at toll booths is part of the overall scheme, but not the total solution to the problems Mexico will encounter in being fuly integrated into North American commerce. There is also envisioned a plan - actually already in place in some states - for truck systems, logs and the like, to be computerized, along with computerized safety checks. Trucks, instead of actually stopping at weigh stations, and presenting highway hazards when they line up to do so, will drive over a special plate which will read the truck's on board computers. This system will assure that safety systems are up to par, check mileage, speed, highway use tax miles, and the like. Legislation provided for this initiative. It is not a "secret" plan. It is commonly referred to as the "Iced Tea" legislation for its initials: ICT. Google it and find out more. Mexico willl have to do major upgrades to its highway infrastructure to participate.

Not in our lifetime, I suspect.

wendy devlin

Dec 22, 2006, 7:54 AM

Post #18 of 28 (2262 views)

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Re: [Georgia] NAFTA Super Highway

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Thanks Georgia.
your information is helpful.

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Dec 22, 2006, 3:30 PM

Post #19 of 28 (2221 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] NAFTA Super Highway

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Here is a post from another forum on this subject.. It's getting interesting...

There is a movement afoot to build a "superslab" highway from north of Ft. Collins to south of Pueblo that has made the news around here in the past few months. It also would be a toll road, built and operated by a private company. A judge has ruled that eminent domain can not be used to grab the land so it is not going to happen.

Getting older and still not down here.

carlw

Dec 23, 2006, 9:53 AM

Post #20 of 28 (2150 views)

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Re: [RickS] NAFTA Super Highway

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WHat is important ot remember about this is that the Texas project is just that, a Texas project. It is hoped by supporters to become a federal project, but the Texas governor wants to go ahead with it regardless. Plans already are drawn for a huge warehouse/transfer park south of Dallas to be tied into the corridor, where goods brought in from every direction can be transferred to trucks and trains. After attending 2 hearings and from all the other discussion I have heard on this, I believe the project is already moving forward in Texas.

Moisheh

Dec 25, 2006, 5:44 AM

Post #21 of 28 (2074 views)

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Re: [Georgia] NAFTA Super Highway

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Allowing Mexican trucks into the USA would be a disaster. They cannot even spell log book!! The Diesel fuel they are using does not meet the USA and Canadian ULSD standard. I also dont think they use front brakes. There are no safety inspections in Mexico for the 18 wheelers. In Ontario when they started random inspections of air brake vehicles something like 50% were not in compliance. How many of the Mexican trucks would pass a test??? Then we have to contend with the impact on the USA drivers. How can they compete with a driver making less than $30.00 a day?? I am amazed that the Mexican busses are allowed to cross into the USA. These drivers often are on duty for more than 16 hours at a time . Very dangerous.

Moisheh

Bubba

Dec 25, 2006, 9:54 AM

Post #22 of 28 (2037 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] NAFTA Super Highway

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As for the NAFTA Superhighway Texas Pork Barrel project which reminds me of the 1950s chamber of commerce bullcrap we all grew up on, why do you guys worry about some redneck dream of emancipation from poverty that will only take place, if at all, when everyone posting here has been planted six feet under.

Now, and more importantly, as to Moisheh´s rant about Mexican trucks and buses, Bubba has input.

In Ontario when they started random inspections of air brake vehicles something like 50% were not in compliance.

Random inspections of Canadian air brake vehicles I presume. Why is it a foregone conclusion that this proves anything as far as Mexico is concerned?

A couple of years ago, somone did a survey inspecting salsas served at Mexican style restaurants in Guadalajara and Houston. They found the presence of e-coli in 90% of the salsas they tested in Guadalajara but they also found e-coli in 50% of the salsas they inspected in Houston so what the hell does that prove? That only an idiot would eat salsa served in a restaurant anywhere or that we humans have a tremendous tolerance for filth in our digestive systems.

I am amazed that the Mexican busses are allowed to cross into the USA. These drivers often are on duty for more than 16 hours at a time . Very dangerous.

So, tell us Moisheh, about U..S. truck drivers and bus drivers on speed driving 24 hours a day at a time, pissing in plastic bottles and freaked out on endless miles of interstate highways driving at 80 MPH endangering everybody else on the highway. Maybe these fools are safer because they lack the latin characteristics of our southern redneck neighbors.

It is my opinion that allowing Mexican truck drivers into the U.S. and Canada will improve the breed.

Allowing Mexican trucks into the USA would be a disaster

What jingostic and racially biased nonsense.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Dec 25, 2006, 9:56 AM)

Georgia

Dec 25, 2006, 11:38 AM

Post #23 of 28 (2013 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] NAFTA Super Highway

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It is my very non-scientific observation that long haul trucks in Mexico have been tremendously modernized over the last few years and even have speed governors on them. What I do know about Mexican truck drivers is that they are tremendously skilled. I am of the opinion that I would rather have a skilled Mexican truck driver on the road, and an inept truck drivers whose truck has all the bells and whistles.

Statistically speaking, five years ago it was determined in the industry that American trucks were 12% less likely to meet safety standards than Canadian trucks and that Mexican trucks were 12% less likes to meet safety standards than American trucks. From this should we conclude that only Candian trucks be permitted on US highways? On the northway from Montreal to New York City the Canadian truckers have a very bad reputation and are involved in a higher percentage of fatal accidents. But their trucks are safe.

It's not about truck safety anyway. It's about tax money.

Moisheh

Dec 25, 2006, 3:47 PM

Post #24 of 28 (1978 views)

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Re: [Bubba] NAFTA Super Highway

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Racially biased: I don't think so. In my former life I ran a business with a small fleet of trucks and did all the logistics for this business. I dealt with many of the major Canadian carriers and some of the big US ones as well. I still get all the trade magazines and have followed the Mexican entry thing for a few years. Bubba says I am biased and then in one fell swoop paints all the USA drivers as drug addicts. Like any other industry there are good and there are bad. However I did not say the Mexican drivers were inept. What I stated was that they do not earn anything close to the drivers NOB. The Mexicans often do not have a drivers license and the vehicles are not normally subject to any inspections. The reason you hear all those engine brakes operating is because many of the trucks do not have front brakes and what brakes they do have are not working well. Just because you see so many newer tractors does not mean they are properly maintained. The US and Canadian trucking industry have amazing maintenance systems. The trucks are serviced at modern facilities with trained techs. Companies like Swift, UPS, Wal Mart etc do not operate unsafe vehicles. Mexican drivers sometimes work 16 or more hours without a real rest. How would you like to be a trucking company or a driver in the USA and have to compete with that?? I hate unions but I am afraid the Teamsters are right on this subject. Bubba is a typical banker/ accountant. They do not live in the real world. I mentioned the Canadian random inspections to show that in a country where most people follow the rules there were still problems. Perhaps Bubba would like to quote the Mexican safety statutes for OTR vehicles?? If there were ( and there are not) who enforces these rules. Have you ever seen a truck stopped and an inspector checking his lights and brakes?? Have you seen weigh scales with inspectors?? In order to drive an 18 wheeler NOB you require a CDL. Is there such a thing in Mexico? NOB trucking companies have their own training programs. Have you ever seen a Mexican trucking Company with a training vehicle? NOB the trailers are considered diposable. After about 5 to 7 years they buy new ones as the old trailers are suffering from metal fatigue. Where do you think those trailers are today?? I am now through ranting!!

Moisheh

Bubba

Dec 26, 2006, 6:17 AM

Post #25 of 28 (1918 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] NAFTA Super Highway

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OK, Moisheh. Well said.

Gringal

Dec 26, 2006, 10:14 AM

Post #26 of 28 (380 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] NAFTA Super Highway

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" NOB the trailers are considered diposable. After about 5 to 7 years they buy new ones as the old trailers are suffering from metal fatigue. Where do you think those trailers are today??"
___________________________________________________________

I was once acquainted with the same business and you've made your point well.
The trailer food chain goes from shiny new acquisition to the heavy machinery auction yard, where lesser transporters and small time machinery dealers acquire them. It's probably safe to assume that some of them eventually go SOB for their final resting place.

However, I feel it's appropriate to point out that even with the many scales and inspections in the U.S., every small time trucker knows the routes around them and often alerts their buds when the scales are closed.

The private trucker's top priority is to get'er'done, since that's what they are being paid for. These folks are by no means getting rich at this, so they tend to shave the safety issues thin. (Multiple retreads, etc.)

To me, it's scary to have a heavy transporter right behind me on the highway either in Mexico or the U.S. because I know how much territory is covered in an emergency stop, even with the best of brakes and tires. You, the passenger car, are likely to be toast. Best to let them pass. In fact, give them a little help with your blinkers when it's safe for them to pull back in. Their lives are not easy ones.

sfmacaws

Dec 26, 2006, 12:43 PM

Post #27 of 28 (366 views)

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Re: [Gringal] NAFTA Super Highway

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Just for info. I have seen truck scales several times along the highways. I have no idea who uses them or why or if they are monitored but they do exist.

I've also seen trucks inspected but probably more for smuggling or not paying taxes than safety. There is a well known graveyard along the road between Escarcega and Chetumal where up to 50 trucks of varying ages are slowly being covered by vines. They were confiscated at a border inspection station there.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Papirex

Dec 26, 2006, 4:04 PM

Post #28 of 28 (339 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] NAFTA Super Highway

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They also do have commercial drivers’ licenses for truckers in Mexico. I know, because about six years ago, several officials were arrested in Mexico City for selling them. The going price was at that time $350 Pesos, or about $35 US Bucks. I don’t know what the price to get a CDL was in the rest of the country.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo