MexConnect.com Forums: General: Living, Working, Retiring: Domestic Help: money and relationships - Original title: "Antiqüedad--otro pregunta": Page 3

Re: [sfmacaws] keeping your distance

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Yes! I can see that it is crucial to remember that it is a business relationship. And I would like to add that in my years of employing secretaries here NOB, the ones that told me at length about their personal lives and inquired into mine were inevitably the ones who, sooner or later, wanted various loans for various crisis. The ones who respected my privacy and expected the same simply asked for a raise if their wages couldn't meet their needs; if I was not able to give them that, they moved on and there were no hard feelings.

Jan 23, 2007, 3:09 PM

Post #52 of 82 (2688 views)

Re: [esperanza] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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This is an update to my Dec. 18 posting on this thread, on the continuing saga of us being sued by our ex-gardner.

Our court date of Jan 22, 2007, just like our previous Nov. 28th, was a waste of time, the suing party did not show up, not even the lawyer ! According to the labor relations 'President' there was a goof up, AGAIN, the people changed lawyers and the new ones were not notified ahead of time,within the requirements of the law.

So now we have a new date for Feb. 16.

I think these people are trying to wear us down (and they are).

Jan 23, 2007, 3:25 PM

Post #53 of 82 (2684 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Here's your Latin lesson for today:

Illegitimi non carborundum sunt.

Google it, if you don't know what it means.

And muy mucha suerte!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Jan 23, 2007, 3:42 PM

Post #54 of 82 (2678 views)

Re: [esperanza] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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My google translator is having a problem translating yout phrase... it only finds that the first word means 'illegitimate' or 'bastard', but does not seem to handle the others.

Jan 23, 2007, 3:44 PM

Post #55 of 82 (2677 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Don't use the translator, just Google the whole phrase--on the search engine.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Gringal

Jan 23, 2007, 3:47 PM

Post #56 of 82 (2673 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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"don't let the bastards burn you up", more or less. And good luck on your next round.

wendy devlin

Jan 23, 2007, 4:10 PM

Post #57 of 82 (2663 views)

Re: [Gringal] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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This Latin phrase was translated by an esteemed doctor/friend as:

'Don't let the bastards get you down.'

Gringal

Jan 23, 2007, 4:24 PM

Post #58 of 82 (2657 views)

Re: [wendy devlin] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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I'll go for that. Been a long time since my Latin teacher was rapping my knuckles for troublemaking.

Jan 23, 2007, 7:48 PM

Post #59 of 82 (2618 views)

Re: [Gringal] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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The way I first heard it, back in the dark ages of 1968, was, "Don't let the bastards grind you down."

Emblazen it on your shield, ignacio, and keep the faith.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Bloviator

Jan 24, 2007, 5:46 AM

Post #60 of 82 (2595 views)

Re: [esperanza] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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I've always heard it the way Esperanza says. However, I've never seen the "sunt" on the end.

Ed and Fran

Jan 24, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #61 of 82 (2584 views)

Re: [dlyman6500] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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That's the plural version. I'm used to seeing it in singular, which I believe is:

Illegitimus non carborundum est

Regards

Ed (years removed from Latin II)

Feb 17, 2007, 5:44 PM

Post #62 of 82 (2534 views)

Re: [esperanza] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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This is an update to our December post on the labor relations suit that my ex-gardener filed against us.

We finally had our 'mediation meeting' last Friday, and here is what happened:

The gardner and wife, who claimed to have been working for us full time were asking originally in the neighborhood of 100k to 300k Mexican pesos, their lawyer presented the case and our lawyer immediately asked if they were willing to settle right then and there.... their answer was yes, if you give us 12,000 pesos each.

Our lawyer explained the pitfalls and outright lies of the frivolous lawsuit and offered 1,000 pesos to settle.

This went back and forth, with our lawyer, my wife and I continually undermining their claims, mainly that when they said they started work was more than two years before we even had bought the property. Our lawyer also explain to the mediator that these were folks used to filing frivolous lawsuits, and in fact have many hectareas or land with some 150 head of cattle, NOT poor indigent people starving and exploited as they were claiming.

The bickering continued back and forth until our lawyer told them that we would pay a maximum of 3,500 pesos each, in 15 days from that date.... the bickering continued and an offer was made of 3,000 pesos each right then and there.

They accepted, and we paid, not feeling to good about it, since we know we didn't do anything wrong, but knowing that it would take an additional six months to a year to come to trial, and continued payment of lawyer fees.

So the bottom line was 3,000 pesos each plus 8,500 pesos that we had paid to our lawyers, for a total of 14,500 pesos. The two people had to sign a full release, notarized right there at the labor relations board.

Our lawyer is going to provide us with a form to be signed so that in the future employees are hired TEMPORARILY for less than 6 months, renewing their contract at expiration, if we decide to continue their employment.

wendy devlin

Feb 17, 2007, 6:02 PM

Post #63 of 82 (2527 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Congrats, Ignacio. At least, am hoping that you are making the best of an unfortunate situation.

Sometimes a person has to cut their losses...meaning that even if a person can 'prove' their case...the cost, time and aggravation of doing so...will outweigh the result.

It's a difficult situation to 'stomach' but having been there, the main thing has always seemed to me, to learn, so that it never happens again.

And pass that information on to others...as it seems your intention. Thanks.

lajollamis

Feb 17, 2007, 6:33 PM

Post #64 of 82 (2514 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Ignacio,

It is disgusting that you had to go through all of this and I wish you nothing but good luck in your future dealings on every level.

Thank you for posting the final result of your ordeal. You have probably saved many folks from getting into the same mess.

As for me, if I ever decide to take this chance after our move down there, the contract will be on the table at the interview and will be signed before a legal witness.

Do they have notaries in Mexico, or do you have to use a lawyer for such things?

Mil gracias,
Mary Lou
Live life well!!!

sfmacaws

Feb 17, 2007, 6:36 PM

Post #65 of 82 (2513 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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I too want to thank you Ignacio for sharing this lesson. I know it is hard to stomach when you know you didn't do anything wrong, I've been there too, but I applaud you for turning it into something valuable to others. Hard as it is, I think you did really well. Others probably would have had to pay much more. Kudos to you, your wife and your lawyer for fighting a good fight. I hope the karma gods drop a load on their heads.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Feb 17, 2007, 8:08 PM

Post #66 of 82 (2494 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Ignacio, thank you for letting all of us know the outcome of your situation. It sounds as though you and your lawyers handled things in the best possible manner and made the best possible decisions throughout. And even better, it sounds like you really maintained your cool all the way along. That's a difficult thing to do, but the only way to take care of a mess like this.

Felicidades!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Feb 17, 2007, 9:55 PM

Post #67 of 82 (2474 views)

Re: [esperanza] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Have you folks ever considered making up a "Do not hire" list........?
Getting older and still not down here.

Septiembre

Feb 18, 2007, 4:25 AM

Post #68 of 82 (2459 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Very educational story Ignacio, glad you got off relatively cheap though the process sounds very frustrating. This contract idea sounds like a good one, is there a source for a good sample contract that fits this kind of situation?

The house we're buying has a maid and a gardener/handyman and, although they come well recommended, we don't want to get locked into a situation with them until we know how much help we want and need. We're used to our privacy and not really wanting people around more than necessary.

As an alternative, up here there are services that hire the people and take care of the pay and labor law requirements and send them around on a set schedule depending on what you want. There's a substantial mark up of course but it occurred to me that where help is needed only a few days per week, this might be a better and much more hassle free approach. Any companies doing this in Ajijic?

Thanks.

lajollamis

Feb 18, 2007, 9:31 AM

Post #69 of 82 (2424 views)

Re: [Septiembre] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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"As an alternative, up here there are services that hire the people and take care of the pay and labor law requirements and send them around on a set schedule depending on what you want. There's a substantial mark up of course but it occurred to me that where help is needed only a few days per week, this might be a better and much more hassle free approach. Any companies doing this in Aiijic? "

Great question! Are they available anywhere else in Mexico and are their employees bonded? I know that might be a lot to ask for Mexico, but stranger things have happened in my experiences down there. Maybe I can be surprised. Maybe it would be a good company to start if the bonding thing could be harnessed. Maybe not. Too much work for retirement. ;-)

Byeeeeee....
Mary Lou
Live life well!!!

Marlene

Feb 18, 2007, 10:14 AM

Post #70 of 82 (2411 views)

Re: [lajollamis] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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IMHO, of all the businesses one could start, this venture is sure to be the one to push you over the edge the fastest. Crazy

Feb 18, 2007, 10:59 AM

Post #71 of 82 (2408 views)

Re: [Septiembre] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Our lawyer is going to provide me with a contract as soon as I have the details of the next person that I have working there now.

Basically it will state that person(s) so and so are temporarily hired for six months duration, with caveats about behavior and expected output.

Then you basically have a new one signed every six months, the trick is to NOT give copies of the contract, other than perhaps the very first to the individual, for if these are saved by the worker, then they can come back and byte you, since that will be proof that you used the 'temporary' status multiple times to evade the labor laws. Another way would be to hire a different person every six months.

I don't know exactly the wording, but as soon as I have it in my hands, I'll post it for people to have an idea of what is the legal lingo that goes into it.

I want to thank you all, for the kind words and encouragement, throughout this ordeal.

Ignacio

Ed and Fran

Feb 18, 2007, 11:23 AM

Post #72 of 82 (2401 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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Then you basically have a new one signed every six months, the trick is to NOT give copies of the contract, other than perhaps the very first to the individual, for if these are saved by the worker, then they can come back and byte you, since that will be proof that you used the 'temporary' status multiple times to evade the labor laws.

Uh, isn't that exactly what you're doing?

While I can understand the desire to have a proper contract to avoid being unjustly accused by employees (as happened in your case), it seems to me that using multiple short term contracts in the manner that you have described goes to the other extreme in that it denies rights that an employee may have justly accrued as a result of long term employment.

Or am I misunderstanding your intention?

Regards

Ed

Rolly

Feb 18, 2007, 12:08 PM

Post #73 of 82 (2392 views)

Re: [ignacio] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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I certainly can see the wisdom in having a contract that spells out terms and conditions, but the every-six-months idea makes me very uncomfortable. I can foresee a big problems down the road for trying to skirt the law.

Rolly Pirate

Feb 18, 2007, 12:08 PM

Post #74 of 82 (2393 views)

Re: [Ed and Fran] Antiqüedad--otro pregunta

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You have your choice, do you want short term or long term employee.

Short term by one or more 'temporary' contracts, or hire a new person every six months.

Long term, be prepared to pay for social security, vacations, separation, etc.

Long term is ok if you really have a permanent employee..... what if every time you go to have a cup of joe at your favorite coffee shop, you ask a guy to keep an eye/wash your car.... is he entitled to all these long term stuff ?

What about a gardener, that you use 3 hours a week just to clear the wild grass and help you water the plants, is he/she entitled to 'long term' employment, if you use him/her for more than six months ? Are you willing to pay $30,000 US dollars to this gardner the day you want to lay him off, for any reason, or because he continues to come in drunk ?

This last case was exactly what we had in our hands, now I ask you, how would you handle it ?

Gringal

Feb 18, 2007, 12:34 PM

Post #75 of 82 (2384 views)